Cheapest way to go 3D?

[sparky]

Hi all,

I'm itching to go 3D but don't want to spend to much at the moment as I suspect that most projector companies are furiously working on
projectors to work with the PS3 and 3d Blu-ray. So with that in mind, what is the most cost effective way to get S3D (without anaglyph) on the pc?

Thanks
Mark

[crim3]

In my humble opinion, the 22" Zalman monitor. It's straight forward and relatively cheap.

[yuriythebest]

the cheapest ones:
crosseyed, anaglyph, colorcode

cheap 200-300USD:
iz3d, zalman

[sparky]

Thanks for the replies,
I have looked at the Zalmon but the one thing that I'm not too sure on is the half resolution, is it really that noticable when watching videos or playing games?

Thanks

[tritosine5G]

I'd go for a 1280*800 projector . You can make the screen yourself, and upgrade it later on, huge plus. Its just superior technology,

-you can't compare the resolution either because LCD has awful fillfactor (interpixel distance)


...on the other hand DLP is the best in fill factor, usually people who switch to DLP always tell how the "screendoor" effect diminished / non existant. The micromirrors are so closely placed only 10% of screen area is interpixel length.


This makes for higher percieved resolution, and for that sake I prefer native resolution, and wont go FullHD either, 2x gpu power for diminishing returns? No better contrast , no better colors, looks no better in movement?

...Hell no!!!

actually it works really good with 160usd worth of 9800gtx SLI (same card as gts250). This is the same perfomance level as GTX285.

GTX285 wont be enough for these monitors native resolution, cause its barely enough at 720p.

So , if you dont spend on GFX cards a ton of money: the cheap TN LCD going to give you: bad FPS / resolution scaling !! Plus it definately looks cheaper...

[crim3]

Thanks for the replies,
I have looked at the Zalmon but the one thing that I'm not too sure on is the half resolution, is it really that noticable when watching videos or playing games?

Thanks

Almost not. Half resolution goes to one eye, and the other half to the other. The resolution is not really lost but distributed, what is noticeable, but not as bad.
Anyway, I think that is more evident in videos than in games. Playing games I almost never think about it.

What I like the most is that it uses passive glasses. No wires, nor batteries, nor IR emitters...
The worst is the evident ghosting in high contrast images and the very narrow viewing angle.

Of course, projectors are better 3D experience, but at a cost.

[Fredz]

what is the most cost effective way to get S3D (without anaglyph) on the pc?

A good CRT monitor with a pair of LCD glasses should be cheaper ($100~$150) than a polarized LCD monitor ($200-$300) for a quite similar experience. You can find a list of suitable CRT monitors on this page : http://pymol.sourceforge.net/stereo3d.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For example on ebay you can find a 22" HP P1130 CRT monitor for $75 (without shipping) and a pair of eDimensional wired 3D glasses for $38,95.

[yuriythebest]

For example on ebay you can find a 22" HP P1130 CRT monitor for $75 (without shipping)

75$ seems a tad expensive- I got my 19' one for about 30-40USD

while cheaper, I don't think it's quite worth all the eyestrain

[Fredz]

You can find cheap CRTs, but if you want a really good monitor it's a bit more expensive. As pointed out in the article I gave a link for, you should consider monitors with at least 126 kHz horizontal sync (ideally 140 kHz or more). Maybe that's why you did experience eyestrain with your monitor.

Professionals have been using them for molecule vizualisation and manipulation for quite a long time now and they seem to be quite satisfied with the results. If you read the mailing-list of PyMol (on of the software they use), they even ruled out iZ3D monitor for professional use compared to CRTs.

[yuriythebest]

You can find cheap CRTs, but if you want a really good monitor it's a bit more expensive. As pointed out in the article I gave a link for, you should consider monitors with at least 126 kHz horizontal sync (ideally 140 kHz or more). Maybe that's why you did experience eyestrain with your monitor.

Professionals have been using them for molecule vizualisation and manipulation for quite a long time now and they seem to be quite satisfied with the results. If you read the mailing-list of PyMol (on of the software they use), they even ruled out iZ3D monitor for professional use compared to CRTs.

my monitor was 100hz so that contributed yes, however I experience(ed) eyestrain from CRT's even in 2D back when I used em and whenever I have the misfortune to use em again for prolonged periods of time. Usually this amounts to things ranging from a slight burning sensation "behind" my eyes, to a blood vessel bursting in my right eye in the area where the eye is usually white (though the red goes away within a day) and also wind sensitivity - when I used CRT's the slightest breeze outside would cause my eyes discomfort and I'd also have trouble staring into distances. Now though that I have the iz3d my eyes feel awesome and none of that bothers me any more.

In CRT's defense I think I'm especially sensitive to em and others may not experience this or experience much less of these.

[Likay]

I used to play with 85Hz (highest refresh supported) and at the time i found it a pretty ok experience. The room needed to be really dimmed though and i guess the dark experience made me accept 85Hz (eyes reacts way slower when exposed for a dimmed light than exposed for brighter light). When there was really bright situations the flickering became quite noticeable though. Personally for me the lightloss when using shutters is unacceptable. I used to turn up gamma a bit to be able to see something but then the image looked "washed out". In the match iz3d vs shutters+crt i definitely choose the iz3d but nothing comes even close to a dual projector rig. I guess that's out of budget though.

[cybereality]

Go with the Zalman. Very nice bang for the buck. Not perfect by any means, but for $300 you can't go wrong.

[tritosine5G]

Well, at least with CRT theres no scaling artifact if you have to dial back resolution for fps.

But its goin to be dark. I *really* think that any monitor with shutters is unbearably dark. Nvidia glasses have something like 15-18% transmittance once shuttering is on, and I'd just forget about compensating for it in software. Im still laughing about this 3x monitor fad, utterly ridicoulus and this is just one of the reasons.

I guess Im way too sensitive to luma , whereas im completely insensitive to DLP artifacts like rainbow , or 120hz flicker. (ok those two took a week to get used to) .

[sparky]

Thanks for all the comments peeps.
I suppose it would probably be best to wait a bit longer for a projector that can handle the ps3 frame packing.
It makes sense to have a 3d projector that can be used on the ps3 an the pc for different content.
But the Zalman is still interesting me though, decisions decisions

[tritosine5G]

Thanks for all the comments peeps.
I suppose it would probably be best to wait a bit longer for a projector that can handle the ps3 frame packing.
It makes sense to have a 3d projector that can be used on the ps3 an the pc for different content.
But the Zalman is still interesting me though, decisions decisions

you can be sure Sony have their own inhouse connector box that makes this possible right now, and they never goin to sell it to you

The hdmi 1.4 pj might not happen at all, since hdmi is a dying breed, but :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... p=18782284" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PS3 ---> Gefen HDMI detective
Gefen ---> AverTV Capture card in the PC

Then the signal from the capture card played in stereoscopic player converting it to frame sequential/checkerboard or whatever format you have set up with 3D vision

<- that averTV trick used to work for hdmi 1.3 , plus ppl say it has no lag.

[sparky]

PS3 ---> Gefen HDMI detective
Gefen ---> AverTV Capture card in the PC

Then the signal from the capture card played in stereoscopic player converting it to frame sequential/checkerboard or whatever format you have set up with 3D vision

Has anyone tried this? If it works this could be a useful solution in the meantime whilst Optoma et al get their act together.
I'm sure Optoma have the tech available for production, i suspect there is a licensing fee they don't want to pay.

[BlackShark]

Hdmi a dying breed ?
Just what the hell have you been smoking here ???

It's never been as much supported as today !

[tritosine5G]

Just what the hell have you been smoking here ???

-not a thing?
http://hd.engadget.com/2010/06/29/hdbas ... ne-do-eve/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DigiMagic]

This new standard is an improvement over HDMI, but HDMI/DVI is already sufficient for full HD video and audio, including 3D. I fail to see a pressing need to replace HDMI anytime soon, in consumer equipment.

[MykC]

I think these are the most viable 3D options... there may be other solutions that are far cheaper such as iz3D analglyph which is free, but you get what you pay for. For gaming on the PC:

Solution 1: iz3D
Cost: $350 USD iz3D monitor
Site: http://www.iz3d.com/monitor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tech: Two LCDs panels in the one monitor, passive glasses
Notes: Availablity may be an issue. Newegg is out of stock, amazon and tigerdirect did not carry.
20% discount on iz3D monitors through MTBS coupon code?
Works with both ATI and Nvidia GPUs recommends 4870/9800GTX+ or better.
Doesn't work with SLI or xFire.

Solution 2: Zalman 3D monitors ZM-xxxxx
Site: http://www.zalman.com/ENG/product/Categ ... orySecond=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cost: Monitor $450 USD or $300£, DDD drivers $50, iz3D free
Tech: Polarized display, passive glasses
http://www.zalman.com/ENG/3D/skill01.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Notes: Availability may be an issue, I couldn't find the items on newegg, tigerdirect, ebay or amazon.
Works with both ATI/Nvidia GPUs.
I believe this solution requires the least amount of overhead to display 3D from the CPU/GPU.

Solution 3: Nvidia 3D Vision
Site: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-main.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cost: Total $450 USD, 3D Vision Glasses $175, 120HZ 3D ready monitor $275-$400
Tech: Active glasses
Notes: Availability not an huge issue, 120hz 3D monitor selection may be limited but each site had at least one offering available. Acer GD235hz easiest to find, followed by ViewSonic VX2268WM.
Requires a Nvidia GPU so... if you have an ATI card, this will require and additional cost.
Works with some DLP 3D TVs and projectors.

Solution 4: 3D TVs (not cheap)
Cost: Total $2500, entry level 3D TVs are $2000, $200 for glasses and a PlayStation 3 $300. Most big box stores will have at least 1 3D TV in the store, the online retailers will have 5-6 options.

This was a quick chart for compairson of polarized vs active glasses. Would be cool, if there was chart that added the iz3D too this as well. But I didn't discuss (cause I really don't know) the advantages of each solution.
http://www.zalman.com/ENG/3D/skill02.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Recap:
iz3D $350 USD (difficult to find)
Zalman 3D $450 USD (very difficult to find)
Nvidia 3D Vision $450 USD (required Nvidia GPU)
3D TV + PS3 $2500 USD (expensive, limited content)

[tritosine5G]

(required Nvidia GPU)

2x G92b , recommended for 720p. Im going 3sli or 2sli + adv physx. (Well yeah, mafia2... )

I spent my money on novint falcon too , so pls support
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/mot ... otherboard

Good time to get into 3d... with a pj !