some questions to vadim

[sharky]

hi vadim! here i have some questions to you


1) will there be a iz3d driver for sale compatible with other solutions? maybe linked to the MAC number of the computer in order to prevent it to be hacked?
2) on the iz3d forum ther eis written that you areworking on new glasses for the monitor. will there be a promotion to users which alread yhave the monitor? like a discount or something like that?
3) what are the time plans on those glasses?
4) what are the plans for the DX10 version of the drivers?
5) will there be a open gl driver version for games? (non quad)
6) how is the work on 64 bit compatibility proceeding?
7) you studied physics, can a tornado suck a nail out of a wooden bridge like in the movie "tornado"? lol

bye

igor

[Likay]

1: I second Sharky's no 1!. Personally i would have no problems to pay an extra fee to have the iz3d-driver going with my polarized rig (and yes, i do have an iz3d 22" too). I don't use the dual beamer rig so much anymore when gaming because it's sometimes a bit unpractical. It's not good for the lamps running for only a few minutes at a time if you suddenly have something to attend to. So i games more or less 70% on the iz3d because of it's easyness and of course also game compability. .

2: Not a too big deal since i can game on the other rig but when (or if) time gives then opengl support would be nice.

3: No question The last driver 1.07 made the gaming experience a real pleasure! Tell the driverdevelopers that their hard work is truly appreciated!

4: Really curious! How and where did someone get the idea of simply adding an extra panel to an lcd for making 3D? The idea and mechanical simplicity is brilliant!

cheers

[BlackQ]

Hi, sharky!

Thank you for your questions. Let me try to answer them:

1) will there be a iz3d driver for sale compatible with other solutions? maybe linked to the MAC number of the computer in order to prevent it to be hacked?

Yes, we are going to issue "HMD" solution first soon - this will be left and right output which can be used for HMD devices like virtual glasses and helmet and for dual projection system. We are thinking about 199 USD per CPU - good price? or too cheap? We are not 100% clear about best defense - but I suppose it would be something simple. Yes, it can be hacked, but you'll lose updates and tech support ... do you think it is good idea??

Next after HMD steps is not planned yet, but we need to understand what is the right step after L/R. There are few candidates: flipping (time sequential), interlace (line-by-line), wide (side-by-side). Flipping looks attractive, but sync is an issue - remember old glasses - it has to be wire or IR, but standard has to be defined ... if you bought projector for flipping we need to understand how to sync... But I'm sure nothing is impossible

2) on the iz3d forum ther eis written that you areworking on new glasses for the monitor. will there be a promotion to users which alread yhave the monitor? like a discount or something like that?

I suppose it would be free for users who have our monitor already. We can not charge people for improvements in driver - it is our obligations, why do we need to do it for glasses. We may only ask to compensate the postal things for us.

3) what are the time plans on those glasses?

We tested prototype and measure light outputs from them. For simplicity we have some elliptical polarization with different axis for different colors. Ideally it has to be 100% linear with same axis for all color. New prototypes shown more narrow ellipse and rotate axises but not to the final point. Now we need to find right parameters and make new optical elements based on that for next test. It will take few week - if test would be fine - manufacturing is very simple and fast process

4) what are the plans for the DX10 version of the drivers?

We started to write new core for our driver and it will be core for DX10 - this core will be ready about mid of March - I assume 6-8 then will give us alpha - we you help in beta testing end of April is good idea for forecast

5) will there be a open gl driver version for games? (non quad)

Yes, but this is not priority at the moment - OGL is hard - we may even consider some external help - 3D generation in OpenGL is much harder than in DirectX. Again we have it in our plan, but deadline is not defined yet. By the way - I heard about 3D patch for Second Life - we'd be happy to share our algorithm with somebody who is big fan of OpenGL and Second Life for implementation. Then whole Second Life will have nativ iZ3D support. info@iz3d.com is open for proposals - say that this is for me - I'll like to discuss

6) how is the work on 64 bit compatibility proceeding?

we hope to have 32-in-64 and 64-in-64 in 3-4 weeks plus testing - has to be fine. This will the part of our driver

7) you studied physics, can a tornado suck a nail out of a wooden bridge like in the movie "tornado"? lol Laughing

I think it is something like ball lightning - similar effect

[Jahun]

Wow!! Now that is good news Vadim...

199$ is fine with me, if it gets me support and a reasonable amount of time with updates. For some it may be a bit steep, but I'd say it is worth it.

New glasses would be cool too... I like the shape and style of your glasses but they just aren't on par with clip ons or Theme Parks regarding extinction. I own +- 55! IZ3D glasses for use with audiences, but usually go back the Themepark style.. Cool style + good extinction would be super!

Do you have a release date for those drivers perhaps?

[BlackQ]

We are expecting this driver at the mid of March - but testing may take more time - so, end of March is a good estimation

[ssiu]

This thread http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=850 has discussions about how much people want to pay for an IZ3D universal driver.

$199 for "HMD/dual projection only" seems a bit expensive to me, but it sounds like you are talking about a one-time fee with on-going updates? Some people seem to be more receptive to a lower, yearly fee. I am still using CRT shutter glasses pageflipping, and hoping to purchase a DLP HDTV later this year. If/when IZ3D driver supports them, a price of $50 (about the price of 1 game) is very reasonable, and $99 is a psychological upper limit.

[genetic]

Hi, sharky!


Yes, we are going to issue "HMD" solution first soon - this will be left and right output which can be used for HMD devices like virtual glasses and helmet and for dual projection system. We are thinking about 199 USD per CPU - good price? or too cheap? We are not 100% clear about best defense - but I suppose it would be something simple. Yes, it can be hacked, but you'll lose updates and tech support ... do you think it is good idea??

Thank you so much BlackQ! You are my hero! What ever price that you think is fair is fine with me. I can't even think about playing a game without my Z800 anymore. You really saved the day!

[pixel67]

That is some very exciting news, Vadim! My hat is off to both you and the folks at IZ3D for listening to the public. Looks like TDVision won't need to depend on Nvidia after all! I do have a few questions for you:

1. Are there plans to support the DLP3D format?
2. Are there plans to look at SLI/Crossfire support?

One of the big drawbacks to S3D is the lost framerate and supporting SLI/Crossfire would allow us to regain some of this lost performance.

I am really looking forward to seeing more from IZ3D!

PiXeL

[wuhlei]

price sounds harsh but Ill still pay it. Please support linux.

[CarlKenner]

When you say HMD, you mean the TDVisor.
Other HMD's, like my VR920, don't use dual inputs, and I don't even have any computers with dual outputs.

I think $200 US is too expensive. Most software that I buy costs less than $80 US.
I think $100 US would be a good price. Many people are used to getting stereo drivers for free from nvidia, so $200 seems like a lot.

The Vuzix VR920 uses page flipping, but sends a USB command after each page flip to say which eye it is for. So you don't have to worry about how long it takes to render a frame, or any of those other problems you mentioned. I'm sure Vuzix will give you whatever help you need to add support for it. There is quite a simple API for doing it.

[FR3D]

yes i also would pay 199$

need pageflipping for my shutterglasses and my z800
dual output for my dlp beamer settup
and planar type output for my planar setting

[sharky]

wow! it looks like this topic has awakened the forums..

great, some other questions here for you.


1) the updates, will there be a time limit or after buying it once you have all the updates forever?
2) will there be more "versions" of the drivers, one for each solution, or will there be 2 versions? (1 for iz3d, and one for iz3d+dualoutput and in future other outputs)
3) Its clear that to preserve the sellings of the monitor you need to have that price for the drivers. does this mean that if the monitor cost drops , then the driver costs drop too?
4) carl kenner says: "Vuzix will give you whatever help you need to add support for it".. this brings up a question to me.. will you sell rights to companies in order to sell theyr products with your drivers?
5) regarding the mac number, it is quite easy to implement. the only problem is that the drivers itself need a internet connection in orde to validate. your updates are pretty frequent, but your first version of the drivers already was a very high starting point. your drivers 1.0000 was better than any other driver around TODAY. this means that if your drivers get cracked they could live a long time with it. will you do something to fight against this? if yes what?
6) what do you think of other driver's decision to go for a "pay per game" solution?
7) monitor 17", monitor 22", what will be next?
8) once you stated that for every game it takes X time to create the profile. this means that not every game will have a profile.. will there be a tool to autocreate "user-profiles" to "easily " fix visualization bugs and maybe share them with other users?

this is it for now..

bye

have a nice day

igor

[genetic]

When you say HMD, you mean the TDVisor.
Other HMD's, like my VR920, don't use dual inputs, and I don't even have any computers with dual outputs.

the Z800 should work. Mine has beed running under "Dule VGA output (Dep3D)" as the stereo type with no problems. I know it shouldnt work. B ut it does. Others have said this too in the past I think.

[CarlKenner]

How do you connect the Z800 to two vga plugs at once?

[genetic]

How do you connect the Z800 to two vga plugs at once?

This could be a case of me not knowing what the heck is going on but what I do know is that about a year ago out of curiosity I selected "Dual VGA output (Dep3D)" as the stereo type in the Nvidia control panel and it works great. I wouldn’t be shocked if has actually been doing pageflipping the whole time but this is what it says it is doing;)

[BlackQ]

Hi, guys!

Sorry for some delay with answer. First of all I need to share part of this fame with iZ3D marketing team and iZ3D development team who always inspire me for further improvement.

I'll try to summarize Q&A:

1. Are there plans to support the DLP3D format?

Yes, but deadlines did not defined yes. We need to have version 2.0 with DX 10 first - more and more games are coming with DX10 support and great visuals

2. Are there plans to look at SLI/Crossfire support?

Good question: we need two outputs - this is matter of fact - SLI/Crossfire has one Three scenarios here:
- GPU guys will open one additional input
- dual core GPU with dual output
- iZ3D with one input
Last one may be next big size model for TV market

3. The updates, will there be a time limit or after buying it once you have all the updates forever?

No time limits - improvements forever!!

4. Will there be more "versions" of the drivers, one for each solution, or will there be 2 versions? (1 for iz3d, and one for iz3d+dualoutput and in future other outputs

Hard to predict. We are going to have few licenses for 1.08 - iZ3D, iZ3D + HMD, iZ3D + OpenGL QB (individual, edu, corp)
I suppose we may have some additional for flipping and other formats. I would be one version with few activation keys

5. Its clear that to preserve the sellings of the monitor you need to have that price for the drivers. does this mean that if the monitor cost drops , then the driver costs drop too?

These two things are not connected directly. Doing other format support we want to have bigger 3D environment and more people be involved in to 3D, even it is not iZ3D . We are trying to establish correct price to prevent a lot of changes here.

6. carl kenner says: "Vuzix will give you whatever help you need to add support for it".. this brings up a question to me.. will you sell rights to companies in order to sell theyr products with your drivers?

we can if they want - we are happy to work with everybody because only gamers can decide which solution is better for them

7. regarding the mac number, it is quite easy to implement. the only problem is that the drivers itself need a internet connection in orde to validate. your updates are pretty frequent, but your first version of the drivers already was a very high starting point. your drivers 1.0000 was better than any other driver around TODAY. this means that if your drivers get cracked they could live a long time with it. will you do something to fight against this? if yes what?

There is nothing in this world which can not be hacked I like one extraterrestrial rabbit Bo from funny Russian flash animation series who said: "You planet has to be updated and patched many year ago" So, let's say this way - our defense will use PC characteristics. But keep it secret!

8. what do you think of other driver's decision to go for a "pay per game" solution?

are you kidding? how many games you have on your PC??? This model is applicable on if you are doing going processing manually (analyzing and converting shaders and vertex) - but I think it is dead way. To correct some artifacts we spend one day per game sometimes, but then profile is fixed and game is done.. Even more we want to create Profiler tool for gamers in 2008 to give them power to correct game artifacts and exchange their profiles.

9. monitor 17", monitor 22", what will be next?

Mathematically 22-17 = 5, thus next will be 22+5 = 27, but no such LC size exist ... so, 26 or 28 - not clear yet - depends on demand plus TV size may be done in parallel (35 - 42)

10. Cool once you stated that for every game it takes X time to create the profile. this means that not every game will have a profile.. will there be a tool to autocreate "user-profiles" to "easily " fix visualization bugs and maybe share them with other users?

see answer 8 - yes - this is an idea - problem is that if user contact and say "in XYZ game at level 24 I found bad 3D with flame in left cave after fifth portal" - to cure it first we need to reach level 24 and find this damn cave - with Profiler user can do it without our help. So, please, don't go to caves

[Likay]

Regarding driver for other solutions your model suits me great! Pay once and forget. . A price of 199$ is very reasonable too.
Overall incredible great news! Thank you for your answers!

cheers

[The_Doctor]

Excellent news and customer connection, this is how it should be done. I'm happy with shutterglasses and I think most people that get into 3d would use them (at least my friends that tried 3d games), so support for that would be nice.

[pixel67]

Thank you for your reply, Vadim. It is very exciting to hear that IZ3D is going to be supporting so many formats! My gratitude, and hopefully future $$$, go to your entire team. Pricing sure is a touchy subject though when you look at the benchmarks set by your competition. Would I pay $199 for a universal stereo driver? Yes, without a doubt! But I am a S3D fanatic and have already spent considerable cash to get S3D, not the average gamer who is strapped to a very tight gaming budget. I currently have about a dozen games on my computer. If all of them worked in S3D through a "pay by game" model then I am only paying $60. If you apply the same model to all the games you support (75 *5) then $199 seems like a better deal with the promise of future game support included in that price. My only concern is that it may be out of reach for the average gamer but that may not be the target audience.

Thanks for dedicating so much time to, and listening to, this community!

PiXeL

[cirk2]

Hello,

$200 are some money... but i would pay it IF:
I get 64bit support
I get Vuzix Vr920 Support
I get support for futur HMD solutions

And one point, that would be an klii-argument:

Steroe-3D need high Performance Computer and games need evey year more Power. So we have to get more Power, so we change Hardware.
But If I make an upgrade to an 45nm CPU from Intel my Mainbord is on the top of his Limits. That means I need an New mainbord in about 1,5 Years, wich will be using new ram, and the gforche 10-Series.

If you will be using Hardware ID's, I have to pack an new Driver on top... 200$ every 2-4 Years are an bit much...
So you have to find a way to lock the Licencens to the Customer, not the Pc, I don't wanna use the same Hardware, untlill I stop using S-3D ( wich should be about 70 Years).

May you can use an Industrial copy protection: an USB dongel.
The driver only loads If the Dongle is present, so an customer can use it on his actual and future Pc. And the Dongle is nearly hack save, or have you heard about an hacked ecad8 (its an Profsional electric circuit desing software) ?

[BlackQ]

Hi, guys!

Thank you for your support, comments and recommendations. As I mentioned we are going to have 1.08 next month and I'm sure during 2.0 new architecture implementation we'll try to count all ideas which were discussed here.

Regards,
Vadim

[deisama]

If you can get it to work with my e-dimensional glasses, I'd pay 200 dollars for it.

[A.J.]

I'd definitely pay 200$ too if shutter glasses were supported.

[Nobsi]

I also would like to see page flipping support for shutter glasses, still my favorit format besides the iZ3D monitor.
An USB dongle would possibly be the best and safest solution for copy protection.

I would suggest a max driver price of 149$ to reach more people.

[wuhlei]

cool
(1)what os are supported

(2)will it support stereoscopic movie players or picture viewers

(3)will this work for older games

[Mong]

It's nice to see new members voicing their opinions.

[crim3]

I would not pay a license per CPU. It means that updates are not forever, when you upgrade your CPU you need a new license. Or if you have several machines, you need several license. You already have the copy at your hands, with its license, but you have to pay again and again per each machine. It's absurd.
I agree to pay for your drivers, but not that way, and maybe not that expensive.

[sharky]

i like the usb dongle idea.. it would solve all problems.. but the question is what the production cost of those dongles is... and how to make an "upgrade"...

[Znith]

I'd probably pay upwards of $149 for a license that would work with flipping and the VR920. $199 sounds a tad high for me.

I too am skeptical about the idea of the driver being tied to a cpu or mac address because I build a new rig every 2 years or so depending on tech improvements. I understand the reason to protect the company from piracy but there has to be a better option.

[ssiu]

I think most of the problem about "tying 1 software license to 1 machine" can be solved by -- provide an uninstall function that properly untie/deactivate the software license.

It seems so simple and logical -- install and activate, uninstall and deactivate, then you can install the deactivated license to another machine.

I don't know why MS Windows / Office etc. don't do that; I don't see what the technical hurdle is.

[wuhlei]

I would not pay a license per CPU. It means that updates are not forever, when you upgrade your CPU you need a new license. Or if you have several machines, you need several license. You already have the copy at your hands, with its license, but you have to pay again and again per each machine. It's absurd.
I agree to pay for your drivers, but not that way, and maybe not that expensive.

is that how it works? ouch thats harsh can you change that?

[stee1hed]

So, I'm just going to think out loud. Don't be afraid

I've done 'pay once' software before with all future updates included and have some questions about these types of releases. Either the company goes out of business or they stagnate the development on that software and release a 'pro' or 'plus' version that you need to re-purchase, with the option of including all future updates for extra $$.

Hopefully that doesn't happen here.

I believe there are going to be different editions of the software depending on what exactly it does??? Need to know more about this.

Technology renews of course and S-3D is no different. Trying to establish a global S-3D driver has a big responsibility in keeping up with technology. Paying $200 or whatever for something that is being advertised as a global driver with all future updates included would also require from the creator for me to feel better is a regular schedule of updates. Once a quarter or more frequent, something like that.

I'm sure some of the negative things I've mentioned here are not the intention, and hopefully this really turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread. These are just a couple of my thoughts. The higher the price, the more responsibility put on the author to satisfy these concerns. I would like to hear what iZ3D has to say to help re-assure me (us).

[cirk2]

i like the usb dongle idea.. it would solve all problems.. but the question is what the production cost of those dongles is... and how to make an "upgrade"...

I think not very higher as an Discount 1GB usb stick...

Upgrade? send old stick back pay the upgrad price and get new stick...

[BlackQ]

Few answers:

1. We are Windows based (XP, Vista, 32, 64 (for 1.08)). Mac - need kind of negotiation you know why Linux - not read yet - need bigger development team

2. Older games support - any if it is DX8 or DX9. No DX7 - sorry.

3. New glasses - form, shapes etc - it can be any - no problem with that - difference is only in lenses

[Mong]

Excellent news Vadim

[genetic]

When you say HMD, you mean the TDVisor.
Other HMD's, like my VR920, don't use dual inputs, and I don't even have any computers with dual outputs.

To BlackQ:

Can you confirm if the Z800 HMD and VR920 HMD which both use page flipping will or will not be supported in the HMD driver release? It sounds like the answer is “no”.

Well, I can wait as long as it takes for page flipping drivers. It is still good to know that a reliable company is trying to meet our needs:)

[wuhlei]

thanks for the reply
every thing sounds good except you have to pay for each cpu? If you can get opengl to work that would be great I can get older directx games to work through a DirectX wrapper.

[MrHugoHugo]

Hi folks,

I guess that this is actually my first post, even though I am following mtbs for quite some time now and everything here feels very familiar by now... I know thats not how a community works... and I am sorry. I promise I will put more effort in actually becoming an active member of this great bunch

I am a 3d gamer for several years now (not playing in 2d at all anymore), using a dual monitor + forntsurface mirror rig (I am a NO GOHSTING kinda guy) and was waiting all that time to finally buy a 88xx nvidia card (or similar) which depended on two things: either a new generation (not betas) of nvidia drivers or the release of the iz3d driver for different 3d rigs...

Well it seems as if my prayers are heard (again ... I know ... if you dont pray out loud ... who the heck is supposed to hear you then??? )

To sum up: I would gladly pay 200 USD for a working, well developed and supported universal stereo driver!

BUT: Like already discussed the driver should not be physically bound to your hardware (I dont mean that you should be able to use one licence for several pcs but you always should be able to upgrade your pc! Maybe an activation process like MS. I know its a hassle but for s3d its worth it)

One last thing: How would the contribution of the driver work? Donwload with seperate licence key via post/mail I guess/hope?

Cu all and keep up the great work (MTBS3D and IZ3D)

[Neil]

Hi Guys!

Microsoft Windows has an OEM / RETAIL model where OEM is bound to specific hardware, and RETAIL is bound to one hardware system at a time but can be moved from system to system. Maybe there could be two versions at different prices.

Regards,
Neil

[BlackQ]

Hi, guys!

HMD for us means left and right at the moment. Page flipping is different thing and will be implemented later.

Saying that driver license will be per CPU I mean that you'll can change / update CPU and keep driver active. Key will be send to customer through e-mail. To solve multi CPU problem we may consider matching iZ3D s/n and driver key