Nvidia glasses $199

[Seb]

I take it nobody's tried the nVidia glasses with iz3d driver yet. Any idea if it can be done? From what I'm reading, the nVidia drivers don't work that well.

[kekewons]

Seb? You've read the Nvidia drivers DON'T work that well with their own glasses?

I'm aware the game settings cannot always be run at "max" levels in a given game (because of video card FPS output issues), yes...but is it possible you are referring to something more sinister?"

I do hope not, but at the same time I DO want the truth. So tell me what you think you know, please.

Thx.


k

[crim3]

sorry, I just saw this.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 64&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

reading it now

Edit:
Basically, there isn’t a greater framerate drop, but rather the framerate must always be above 60fps or problems will occur.
If this is the way it will have to be, then that would mean that playing new games with the Z800 will require ultra high end PC upgrades constantly. But for the time being this may work as at least now it looks like I can finally upgrade.

Also, It looks like the new firmware may not be needed.

The iz3d driver still can NOT be used in a real situation. It is unacceptable that the stereo flips everytime the computer swallows some saliva to go on breathing. That assuming that the high FPS can be reached. Feeding the z800 with the synch'ed stereo pairs is completely necessary before anyone can think of buying an iz3d license for the page flipping output.

It's sad to see that more and more people think of the nvidia stereo driver as a very super-special extra bit which shouldn't be free. To me is just part of the main driver. What if they decide that their DX10 cards can only run DX9 games unless you pay a license to unlock that part of the driver. Or that if you want Pixel Shader you must pay for it. Or after installing you brand new video card and the forceware drivers you find this message: "sorry, the Full Screen Antialiasing is only for licensed users" - "Dammit! But the hardware already is able to do those things! You are just locking it artificialy by software!" you'd say.

There isn't anything mysterious about the 3d driver. It's already done, has been here for years. It should be there with the rest of the forceware driver, being part of the rest of the functionality, without all these odd decisions, subterfuges and discussions. You download the forceware, you have a full working nvidia card. That's all. Why can't it be so simple?

[pixel67]

Good points. But then IZ3D and DDD should give away their drivers too.

[yuriythebest]

Good points. But then IZ3D and DDD should give away their drivers too.

and there should be world peace and unicorns

sorry couldn't resist , anyhow what would iz3d get from releasing their drivers for free? basically this would mean they are investing resources in developing drivers for third party solutions- while this would have the benefit of undermining nvidias solution, assuming the sync issue is fixed, it would also undermine their own solution since people would not want to buy an iz3d monitor, because their edimensional glasses+CRT or z800 suddenly sprung back to life. However if nvidia were to do the exact same thing, that is reinstate support for 'old' devices in their new driver, they would have the benefit of being able to use that as a marketing ploy, while still being able to advertise their solution. seriously, imagine an alternate reality where nvidia never dropped 3d support for all those years and we've all been using it, and suddenly we hear an announcement that they are releasing their own new shutterglasses-based solution- imagine how much more positive the feedback would be from the stereo3d community. Would that change my mind about buying them? probably not, but I wouldn't be so skeptical about them either.

[Seb]

Seb? You've read the Nvidia drivers DON'T work that well with their own glasses?

I'm aware the game settings cannot always be run at "max" levels in a given game (because of video card FPS output issues), yes...but is it possible you are referring to something more sinister?"

I do hope not, but at the same time I DO want the truth. So tell me what you think you know, please.

Thx.


k

This is the review that gave me that impression:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3493&p=1

As we mentioned, either an application needs to be developed for stereoscopic rendering, or it needs some external "help" from software. In 3rd party cases, this is a wrapper, but in NVIDIA's case they built it right in to the driver. The advantage NVIDIA has is that they can go really low level if they need to. Of course, this is also their downfall to some degree, but I'll get to that later.

When it works it works really well and looks simply amazing. It's simple to adjust to a degree that is comfortable and doesn't cause huge amounts of eye strain. Because you do have to focus on objects at different depths, your eyes are working harder than when playing a normal game, and it forces you to do more looking at things rather than using your peripheral vision and just reacting like I often do when gaming. When it's done right (especially with out of screen effects) it fundamentally changes the experience in a very positive way.

But ...

In many games we tested there were some serious drawbacks. Even games that NVIDIA rated the experience as "excellent" we felt were subpar at best. Fallout 3 had some ghosting effects that we couldn't fix, and it just didn't feel right for example. Games with an excellent rating most of the time still require reducing some settings to a lower level like FarCry 2 where the lower quality shadows really take away from the experience.

What I understand from this is that nVidia's driver works a bit different from iz3d's, for instance. It doesn't render everything twice, but takes some kind of shortcut that improves FPS but hurts effects where depth information isn't there. Nothing sinister, just a different approach that perhaps doesn't work as well in the end?

I'm seriously looking at picking up a Samsung HL6A750 (if I'm going for active it might as well be big, also thinking about getting a regular 1080p plasma/LCD and 3d PC monitor instead, but because I'm interested in it for photos and movies as well as games the colour tinting with iz3d is a significant issue for me), and researching glasses for it. Reading this has made me wonder if nVidia's are the way to go, or should I look for something older or less polished to be able to use the iz3d driver?

Appreciate any comments I can get to figure out if this is right, or if my concerns are misplaced. I know iz3d's driver does have some problems with post-processing effects as well, but are they to the same extent?

[pixel67]

Good points. But then IZ3D and DDD should give away their drivers too.

and there should be world peace and unicorns

They don't exist?
You validated my point... Anyone giving away their intellectual property is nuts. IZ3D, DDD, Nvidia, Vuzix... Doesn't really matter who it is. 3D software is just that...software.

Anyhow what would iz3d get from releasing their drivers for free?

Exactly what Nvidia does. A hardware sale, which isn't much margin.

basically this would mean they are investing resources in developing drivers for third party solutions-

Which is what Nvidia has done for free for years. What did it get them? A small semi-loyal following but not mass market penetration.

assuming the sync issue is fixed, it would also undermine their own solution since people would not want to buy an iz3d monitor, because their edimensional glasses+CRT or z800 suddenly sprung back to life.

Which is exactly why Nvidia doesn't give it away, because people would buy competitive solutions over their own. They should license the technology... Until native games come, or all this is put behind DirectX and squashs this whole issue.

However if nvidia were to do the exact same thing, that is reinstate support for 'old' devices in their new driver, they would have the benefit of being able to use that as a marketing ploy, while still being able to advertise their solution.

Who says they won't do this? IZ3D didn't start off selling their drivers. BTW... No one should give away anything that employees have to make a living from. I wouldn't want IZ3D to do it and have to lay folks off because they can't afford to keep them around and i don't expect Nvidia to do it. And i surely don't expect AMD to do it!

[pixel67]

Seb, I don't think i have ever seen a side by side quality analysis of different drivers but i would bet each one has their trade-offs. With the HDTV you won't be page flipping but using checkerboard so the solutions should be able to be compared. Hopefully, as above, Nvidia will license the tech so we can do just that...

[Seb]

Seb, I don't think i have ever seen a side by side quality analysis of different drivers but i would bet each one has their trade-offs. With the HDTV you won't be page flipping but using checkerboard so the solutions should be able to be compared. Hopefully, as above, Nvidia will license the tech so we can do just that...

Yep, worst comes to worst I can try both. In Canada though so I'd have to get someone in the US to ship me the Samsung glasses though if I wanted to use them. Not ready to spend $600 on CrystalEyes... at least not yet. As it stands now, I'd be leaning towards the Samsung glasses just because you can buy extras seperately, and you don't need Vista.

The DLP looked pretty dim in one of the stores I saw it in, but all the reviews I've read for it have been pretty good. I'm guessing they just had the settings wrong. If it does turn out that it will always look like that though I'll probably end up getting a normal 2D TV and a smaller 3D solution.

Oh, another question... if flicker on a 2D 60 Hz CRT bugs me, would it be the same with 3D 120 Hz shutterglasses? Because then I'd have to just go with the iz3d monitor.

Thanks for your help, pixel67!

[pixel67]

Seb, I don't think i have ever seen a side by side quality analysis of different drivers but i would bet each one has their trade-offs. With the HDTV you won't be page flipping but using checkerboard so the solutions should be able to be compared. Hopefully, as above, Nvidia will license the tech so we can do just that...

Yep, worst comes to worst I can try both. In Canada though so I'd have to get someone in the US to ship me the Samsung glasses though if I wanted to use them. Not ready to spend $600 on CrystalEyes... at least not yet. As it stands now, I'd be leaning towards the Samsung glasses just because you can buy extras seperately, and you don't need Vista.

The DLP looked pretty dim in one of the stores I saw it in, but all the reviews I've read for it have been pretty good. I'm guessing they just had the settings wrong. If it does turn out that it will always look like that though I'll probably end up getting a normal 2D TV and a smaller 3D solution.

Oh, another question... if flicker on a 2D 60 Hz CRT bugs me, would it be the same with 3D 120 Hz shutterglasses? Because then I'd have to just go with the iz3d monitor.

Thanks for your help, pixel67!

No problem. 3D Roundup did a review of available shutter glasses and gave the Samsung's pretty high marks! If you buy one of the LED DLP's then i think you will be happy with the brightness levels. On flicker, this is a hard one to answer. My personal experience has been very good and i would consider myself a sensitive type to refresh. Just walking by a CRT and seeing the refresh in my peripheral vision bugs me. I think it really boils down to the ergonomics of the solution you are looking for (sitting at a desk or sitting on a sofa). Once this question is answered then your decision will be much easier. I had the room for the latter and also use it for console gaming. It just made sense for me...

[Seb]

3D Roundup did a review of available shutter glasses and gave the Samsung's pretty high marks! If you buy one of the LED DLP's then i think you will be happy with the brightness levels. On flicker, this is a hard one to answer. My personal experience has been very good and i would consider myself a sensitive type to refresh. Just walking by a CRT and seeing the refresh in my peripheral vision bugs me. I think it really boils down to the ergonomics of the solution you are looking for (sitting at a desk or sitting on a sofa). Once this question is answered then your decision will be much easier. I had the room for the latter and also use it for console gaming. It just made sense for me...

Yeah, that's the review I was going by. TV would be in front of a couch (futon actually). Hmm... even if the refresh does end up ruining for me, I'm thinking it would still be a pretty good TV for me. Better blacks than LCD, no burn-in like a plasma. I'll have a look at it (due diligence) next weekend, I think.

[VOXEL]

Does anyone know why nvidia does not give a new driver for the GeForce 3D Vision?
The site nvidia has a link, but the driver for the GeForce (ForceWare).

[ssiu]

... also thinking about getting a regular 1080p plasma/LCD and 3d PC monitor instead, but because I'm interested in it for photos and movies as well as games the colour tinting with iz3d is a significant issue for me ...

I am also interested in a S3D monitor/HDTV as much for photos/videos as for games. You should check out the "new iZ3D glasses beta test" threads here and in iZ3D's forum (sorry, don't have the links handy). There seems to be a consensus that the new glasses only improve ghosting problem a bit, but almost totally eliminate the "different colour between left and right eye" problem.

[ssiu]

if flicker on a 2D 60 Hz CRT bugs me, would it be the same with 3D 120 Hz shutterglasses?

No; flicker depends on both refresh rate and the display type. That's why many people can't tolerate 60Hz CRT, but almost nobody complain about 60Hz LCD flickering.

But whether you can tolerate 120Hz 3D monitor with shutter glasses is hard to say, unless you see it yourself ...

[The_Doctor]

If anybody wants to try it out, tigerdirect has it with a 30 days non-question asked (or so they say) money back guarantee.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... CatId=2775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"There's no need for excuses. If you buy any product with a "30 DAY IRON CLAD GUARANTEE" icon via our website or catalog and decide to return it, just contact our service center for an RMA number then return the complete, undamaged product in the original packaging for an exchange or a credit to your original form of payment. "

So, maybe $20 to send it back if it's crap

[Xerion]

Seems I actually could order from tigerdirect, but then shipping charges would be $67, I could only pay by wire transfer costing $25, and possibly more fees. Then customs here would add VAT and import duty. So all in all, no thanks

[The_Doctor]

Seems I actually could order from tigerdirect, but then shipping charges would be $67, I could only pay by wire transfer costing $25, and possibly more fees. Then customs here would add VAT and import duty. So all in all, no thanks

People from the US can try it, it's $2.99 to ship it (at least to where I'm at), I think more to send it back since they must have some cheap shipping discount.

[Zeblade]

Oh, another question... if flicker on a 2D 60 Hz CRT bugs me, would it be the same with 3D 120 Hz shutterglasses? Because then I'd have to just go with the iz3d monitor.

Thanks for your help, pixel67!

Well I've been playing with it for just over a day and I remember the old shutterglasses and those flickered but man these Nvidia ones there is no flicker at all lol. Only one game flickers sometimes and thats World of Warcraft. Like going in to stormwind not bad at all just flickers now and then but I dont play WOW that much just wanted to try it.

I did try a few months ago the Iz3d monitor and even though it was good 3d it had awful ghosting everywhere. Nvidias is just WOW beautiful. But... It will be nice to see what Iz3d's 24" will look like so you might want to wait for that. But if it was between their 22" and Nvidias .. NV all the way.. The price for the glasses (NV) might me kinda high but they dont look cheap at all.

[kekewons]

It sounds really good, Zeblade, as far as it goes. I'm still not entirely sure, however, that it would seem near enough to me to "fullsize" at 22"...at least at a normal viewing distance...and I'm fascinated enough by having seen "fullsize" 3D stereo projection that I think even a big monitor might seem a bit underwhelming.

I wonder if I can ask you to try using it for a bit "up close" (thereby effectively magnifying the view or FOV (field-of-view).

If you were viewing that 22" monitor, say from a distance of 16" or so...would the 3D effect actually help to "relax" the eyes instead of causing eyestrain? Perhaps even relax them enough so that it didn't seem you were focusing on object seen on a flat plane just 16" away...but rather THROUGH the plane and onto 3D objects that are considerably further away*?

[* Obvious assumption: Most of the 3D objects would have to be "further away" in the viewspace, so an object which pops OUT of the screen under 3D (like the 3D Nvidia test logo) wouldn't necessarily be what I'm talking about]

Assuming you, or anyone else who has the new kit can try it, I'd love to hear your results...and impressions.

Thanks


k

[Seb]

Well I've been playing with it for just over a day and I remember the old shutterglasses and those flickered but man these Nvidia ones there is no flicker at all lol. Only one game flickers sometimes and thats World of Warcraft. Like going in to stormwind not bad at all just flickers now and then but I dont play WOW that much just wanted to try it.

I did try a few months ago the Iz3d monitor and even though it was good 3d it had awful ghosting everywhere. Nvidias is just WOW beautiful. But... It will be nice to see what Iz3d's 24" will look like so you might want to wait for that. But if it was between their 22" and Nvidias .. NV all the way.. The price for the glasses (NV) might me kinda high but they dont look cheap at all.

Thanks for the reply! I'm looking at the 61-inch DLP though, not the 22" monitor for the shutterglasses. Don't have a TV right now, so if I go with glasses I need to buy TV + glasses (+ Vista for NV). For iz3d it would be TV + iz3d + computer upgrade (to get another DVI-output for iz3d + TV).

Although it doesn't even look the nVidia kit is compatible with Samsung DLPs, (despite earlier statements from Andrew Fear that it would be compatible with "generic Texas Instruments checkerboard" displays). And I don't think the Mitsubishi's are available in Canada... so if that's what it comes down to, I'll probably go iz3d or get someone in the states to order the Samsung glasses for me and ship them to me.

[pixel67]

Seb, Andrew stated in a later post that Samsung DLP3D should work but they haven't tested them in the lab yet. Since the new Nvidia drivers check for the presence of their emitter, I was unable to test it on my Sammy yesterday as it only allowed anaglyph. The good news is one of our members already has it running on a Samsung 3D HDTVHERE.