The Sony HMD is real!

Post by **cybereality** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:50 am

You should be able to play PC games with this using software the supports HDMI 1.4a, like Nvidia 3DTV Play, IZ3D or DDD drivers.

Post by **ERP** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:50 pm

It's just a HDMI1.4 device, should run with anything that will produce the signal PC, or DVD player.
It's my understanding that it was primarily designed for movie viewing, which is why it has no motion tracking. And it likely explains the choice of FOV as well as the language used to describe it.

I still haven't seen it myself, but a number of people at work have played with it.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:53 pm

I doubt Nvidia 3D Vision supports HDMI 1.4 out tho, does it? So, I'd be stuck with the DDD or iZ3D drivers? That would suck a little, since 3D Vision seems to have the best performance currently.

Post by **Fredz** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:54 am

NVIDIA 3D Vision does indeed support HDMI 1.4, but only for supported displays. If you don't own 3D Vision you can also buy 3DTV Play which is basically the same thing but standalone for HDMI 1.4 supported displays and without glasses (which are useless for an HMD anyway).

Post by **imPsimon** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:00 am

WiredEarp wrote:I doubt Nvidia 3D Vision supports HDMI 1.4 out tho, does it? So, I'd be stuck with the DDD or iZ3D drivers? That would suck a little, since 3D Vision seems to have the best performance currently.

Seems compatible with nvidia 3dtv play software:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Get compatibility with HDMI 1.4 3D TVs and compatible TV manufacturer's 3D glasses system, including Panasonic® VIERA® Full HD 3D plasma TVs."

Can anyone confirm this, I'm really not sure if I got this right.

Post by **imPsimon** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:11 am

Fredz beat me by the minute and unfortunately my theory was broken.
At least for now.
Do anyone have a source link for that Andrew Fear guy who supposedly says
that nvidia wants to support this product through 3dtv play?

...Lets not hope sony puts some sticks in our wheels for whatever reason...

Post by **Fredz** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:12 am

The Sony HMD is not in the list yet, better wait for its official release.

Post by **ancjob** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:15 am

imPsimon wrote:
WiredEarp wrote:I doubt Nvidia 3D Vision supports HDMI 1.4 out tho, does it? So, I'd be stuck with the DDD or iZ3D drivers? That would suck a little, since 3D Vision seems to have the best performance currently.
Seems compatible with nvidia 3dtv play software:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Get compatibility with HDMI 1.4 3D TVs and compatible TV manufacturer's 3D glasses system, including Panasonic® VIERA® Full HD 3D plasma TVs."

Can anyone confirm this, I'm really not sure if I got this right.

well the link does mention asrock ion 3d series [hdmi 1.4a] with 3dtv play software being compatible so i am happy that sony headset may work for blu-ray 3d after all

Post by **WiredEarp** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:42 am

Great! As long as I can use 3DTV Play to play my games on my device just as easily as I can use 3D Vision, i'm happy!
This HMD is gonna be legendary. Although, its already looking at costing the same as a good 720P 3D projector for me.

Post by **Chiefwinston** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:47 am

If you look at the list of compatable 3D HDTV's. At the 3DTV play software page. You will see an extensive list of HDTV's from Sony, Samsung, Panasonic...ect. I just don't see an issue coming up from Nvidia. They want to sell software too. Money is money and I don't see them turning there backs on this one. Seeing that its likely to be a niche market for the forseable future. A delay in them getting around to unlocking this device- sure. Beyond a month after the products release- probably not.

cheers

Post by **Aeroflux** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:26 am

As far as I can tell 1.3b didn't support 3D, so by default Nvidia 3DTV Play must support 1.4 to work with a 3D HDTV.

Edit: Also found a bit of interesting functionality for the headset! According to an article on Tomsguide:

"A control key located behind the front of the device is used to control the volume as well as basic operations such as playback, pause, fast forward, rewind, previous chapter, next chapter."

I wonder if that functionality will work with all Blu-Ray players...

Also, another interesting bit:

"It also charges the headset when it's not in use – Sony says that a wearable sensor automatically turns off the two screens when the viewer isn't donning the futuristic specs."

If this headset charges while not in use that could reveal a couple of things: First, it could point to the capacity of the headset to function through their recommended 3-hour use. I certainly hope not. The good part is it might be possible to have a wireless function added to it, since it powers itself. It's all just wild speculation of course.

Given that it's only 14.82oz, I don't think there is a battery within the headset. It must be a poor translation. Perhaps "charge" implies the headset will be in an state of "always-on", similar to the Wii console by Nintendo. The headset automatically powers up when you put it on your head. That makes more sense than a battery in a cabled headset.

Edit: Yes, it's a reference to standby power. I got this link from a thread on the AVS forum. It also mentions some specifics on OLED technology; "In addition, SBMV own output gradation corresponding to the panel in 14bit images of 8bit (Super Bit Mapping) technology has been adopted."

^Better information regarding the OLED tech and processing used by Sony, posted in the AVS forum.

Post by **nrp** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Available in November, the HMZ-T1 head mount display will retail for about $799.

I guess that answers that.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:14 pm

Well Nvidia hasn't confirmed support, but I have a good feeling based on what was said in the Nvidia forum. Here is a link to the post:

andrewf@nvidia wrote:If the HMD supports HDMI 1.4 (which I suspect it will for PS3 compatibility) we can absolutely support this with 3DTV Play. We are contacting Sony to get details so we can support it.

Hope that gives you some hope!

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?show ... &p=1287053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **WiredEarp** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:40 pm

@ AeroFlux: "It also charges the headset when it's not in use – Sony says that a wearable sensor automatically turns off the two screens when the viewer isn't donning the futuristic specs."

Yep, I think they were probably meaning 'change' or something similarly badly translated.
I suspect it is basically the same as on the Z800. The motion sensor detects movement, and if it doesn't detect any, shuts down the displays, to prevent them displaying continuously and suffering 'burn in'.

Post by **nrp** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:56 pm

WiredEarp wrote:@ AeroFlux: "It also charges the headset when it's not in use – Sony says that a wearable sensor automatically turns off the two screens when the viewer isn't donning the futuristic specs."

Yep, I think they were probably meaning 'change' or something similarly badly translated.
I suspect it is basically the same as on the Z800. The motion sensor detects movement, and if it doesn't detect any, shuts down the displays, to prevent them displaying continuously and suffering 'burn in'.

Potentially simpler than that; an infrared proximity sensor to see if the glasses are being worn or not, or even just a physical switch on pressure to the forehead pad arm.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:00 pm

Good point, although I doubt its a physical button. It could really be any of these methods however.
Good feature, as otherwise, you can end up displaying the same image for hours and hours.

What I am really keen is though is somehow changing the optics to allow wider FOV. If I could get 90 degree FOV, that would be so awesome for all my applications.

I feel a bit gutted I didn't bid more on an auction for some old Virtuality gear. I could have used those LEEP lenses...

Post by **PalmerTech** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:58 am

LEEP lenses would be useless for displays this size, they need at least a 2" or so screen, these are only 0.7".

Here is to hoping the FOV is boostable, though!

Post by **mAchiNE** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:15 am

Can't wait for this to come out! I will start saving now so I can get one as soon as they release it
Yes it would be nice if it can be modded for higher FOV but it is nice to see a HMD comming out with a FOV much higher than the usual 35deg that most HMDs seem to have these days

Also I think its a given that Sony would have HDMI 1.4a support on this HMD, wasn't the 1.4a standard invented for 3D Bluray and 3D gaming on PS3? plus how else you going to watch 3D BluRay on it? I don't know of any 3D bluray players that support any other format and I dont think they are going to market this to PC users only

in any case finally a high resoloution 3D wide(ish) FOV HMD for around $1000 can't complain about that considering less than a month ago all we had to look foward to was the Wrap1200 852x400 and the Cinemizer (res to be comfirmed)

Post by **Okta** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:37 am

Considering i just bought a 40inch 3d tv for my monitor i really need to back off on the toy purchases for a while so i will be happy to read some of you guys experiences before getting one but by the sound of this thing im about 90%

It will mostly depend on the quality of the display and how the 750 inch screen 'feels'.

Post by **3dvison** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:44 am

mAchiNE wrote: in any case finally a high resoloution 3D wide(ish) FOV HMD for around $1000 can't complain about that considering less than a month ago all we had to look foward to was the Wrap1200 852x400 and the Cinemizer (res to be comfirmed)

Yes it's funny, how different it is with sony.
Once they said it was going to be a product for release, there was none of the smoke and mirrors game, all information about the HMZ-T1 was put out for the public, along with release dates and pricing...Very Cool

Post by **Aeroflux** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:59 am

nrp wrote:
Available in November, the HMZ-T1 head mount display will retail for about $799.
I guess that answers that.

Hot damn!

The AVS forum sales team is taking pre-orders from members...not sure what their policy is just yet, in the process of finding out right now.

Post by **3dvison** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:11 pm

Aeroflux wrote:The AVS forum sales team is taking pre-orders from members...not sure what their policy is just yet, in the process of finding out right now.

Sounds good.
We should find the best way for people to Pre-order on this board,so we can get in on the first shipments of the HMZ-T1.

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:56 pm

I'm really not sure if pre-ordering is necessary. I can't see this thing selling out that quick. I mean, I hope it is that popular (and maybe it can be with Sony's marketing muscle). But really there will be enough of them to go around.

Post by **Aeroflux** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:48 pm

Okay, just got done talking to Mike from the sales team:

I'd like to be put on the list, but I also have a few questions regarding the nature of the pre-order.

How does the transaction take place when the product is in stock? How do I get a receipt of sale? What about sales tax and shipping? Does it ship from you or from Sony itself? Will your list be covered by the first shipment of stock, or is there a limit to how many units you order?

Thanks for your time!

Once we know the pricing on the item, we contact you to find out if you do want to get it. If you say yes, we take your credit card information and place an order. Your card is not charged until the item ships. The glasses will be shipped to us and we in turn ship them to the customers. We will order enough to cover the pre-order list and some extra. As far as we know, we can order as many as we want, but that does not mean that we will get that many in the first shipment. We currently have 25 to 30 on the list.

Mike

Thank you! Do you mind if I share this information with my fellow members on MTBS3D.com?

Please do and have them contact me (email) if they want on the pre-interest list. Need name, email and phone number.

Mike Garrett
mike@avscience.com

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:46 pm

I'm sure that guy is reputable, but I will play it safe and just order one from a legit retailer like Amazon when it becomes available. Much less BS to deal with if the thing comes broken or something.

Post by **Aeroflux** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:34 pm

cybereality wrote:I'm sure that guy is reputable, but I will play it safe and just order one from a legit retailer like Amazon when it becomes available. Much less BS to deal with if the thing comes broken or something.

That's your choice and I respect it, but I should clarify this is one guy on the sales team for a business, http://avscience.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They have a sales policy, which includes defective and damaged shipments. Granted, it won't be as good as Amazon's free return shipping, but it is legit.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:05 pm

Can I make another point?

One big problem that faces niche game developers in Japan is that getting someone to publish your game in the US is really, really hard. One of the reasons? All the hardcore fans of the game have already imported it from Japan!

Fire Emblem, a GREAT series, is not released in the US anymore because the very few titles they brought to theUS sold very poorly. Same thing with Dragon Quest, one of the most popular series in Japan! One example that impacted me greatly is the Ace Attorney series for DS: Sales for the series have been bad in the US, and even worse for Europe, so they have no plans to bring the latest entry in the series here.

Why were sales so bad for a game with such a cult following? Well, the Japanese versions had an English option in the menu, so a lot of people imported them early, leaving nobody to purchase it domestically.

The point of this whole rant? It sure would suck if all us HMD enthusiasts import from Japan, and then make the US market seem smaller than it really is.

I know it is not really a factor for a company as large as Sony, especially if they move a lot of these, but it is how I am going to justify waiting for the US release. Feel free to use it to rationalize your own decisions.

Post by **3dvison** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:11 am

avscience.com will not be importing these correct ? If you place a preorder with them it will be from US invintory ?

Post by **Aeroflux** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:55 am

3dvison wrote:avscience.com will not be importing these correct ? If you place a preorder with them it will be from US invintory ?

Technically they are always imported, as any technology manufactured in another country is. They order them straight from Sony, and as such, Sony will only provide equipment for the correct region. Is it possible? Yes. Probable? No.

You can ask them if you aren't satisfied with my reasoning, this thread pretty much covers the discussion surrounding all aspects of the headset. Mjg100 is the guy I've been talking to.

Post by **ancjob** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:43 am

Aeroflux wrote:
3dvison wrote:avscience.com will not be importing these correct ? If you place a preorder with them it will be from US invintory ?
Technically they are always imported, as any technology manufactured in another country is. They order them straight from Sony, and as such, Sony will only provide equipment for the correct region. Is it possible? Yes. Probable? No.

You can ask them if you aren't satisfied with my reasoning, this thread pretty much covers the discussion surrounding all aspects of the headset. Mjg100 is the guy I've been talking to.

i'd rather wait for reviews when the unit is available to order on amazon us etc

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:55 pm

Just a tiny tidbit:

Note the "compatible with all 3D sources" listing. One would hope that they do not mean HDMI 1.4 only! I mean, the Xbox 360 can be a 3D source, but it only does so with side by side/over under games.

Post by **Aeroflux** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:24 pm

ancjob wrote:i'd rather wait for reviews when the unit is available to order on amazon us etc

I'll be sure to put my impressions up on amazon then.

PalmerTech wrote:One would hope that they do not mean HDMI 1.4 only! I mean, the Xbox 360 can be a 3D source, but it only does so with side by side/over under games.

Which 3D video formats are contained in HDMI 1.4?

The HDMI 1.4 specification includes information on a wide range of 3D display formats at up to 1080p resolution, including:

field alternative
frame alternative
line alternative
side-by-side half
side-by-side full
L + depth
L + depth + graphics + graphics depth

If I recall "top/bottom" was introduced in 1.4a for broadcast programs. I thought XBox 360 only supported HDMI 1.3?

Post by **Fredz** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:54 pm

The Xbox 360 is HDMI 1.2, it was the PS3 that was HDMI 1.3 and which have been upgraded to HDMI 1.4 by a software update.

Also I don't think any frame alternative mode is supported in HDMI 1.4a, only frame packing which is basically a special above-and-bottom format for full resolution stereo 3D.

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:23 pm

Interesting. That could mean that it at least supports side-by-side, which would be a great bonus.

Post by **ancjob** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:34 pm

cybereality wrote:Interesting. That could mean that it at least supports side-by-side, which would be a great bonus.

i will go with sony anyday FOV 51 just too tempting - my asrock ion 3d blu-ray is craving it!

Post by **Cyberqat** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:20 am

The look is downright retro... reminds me of the Phillips scuba. Hope its more comfortable then that was.

Post by **3dvison** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:58 am

Cyberqat wrote:The look is downright retro... reminds me of the Phillips scuba. Hope its more comfortable then that was.

From what I have read, it seems that when the Sony HMZ-T1 is worn correctly, most of the weight of the unit should be on the forehead pad and not on your nose.
That sounds like a good idea to me.
Although from a review on this site (PalmerTech) for the Phillips scuba, it sounds like too much weight on the forehead can be bad also. I think the Sony is much lighter than the Phillips scuba was so hopefully it will work out much better for comfort.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:12 am

I hope the weight is not too much of an issue. Hopefully the design is stable, but I feel like it needs a counter-weight in the back or something. Those straps just don't look too secure.

Post by **ancjob** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:30 pm

3dvison wrote:
Cyberqat wrote:The look is downright retro... reminds me of the Phillips scuba. Hope its more comfortable then that was.
From what I have read, it seems that when the Sony HMZ-T1 is worn correctly, most of the weight of the unit should be on the forehead pad and not on your nose.
That sounds like a good idea to me.
Although from a review on this site (PalmerTech) for the Phillips scuba, it sounds like too much weight on the forehead can be bad also. I think the Sony is much lighter than the Phillips scuba was so hopefully it will work out much better for comfort.

same is the issue with z800 also though the set is very light but it's the forehead pad that starts to bother me after say 30-40 min of continuous use - seems you cannot have everything perfect in one unit - if weight is the problem then go with EVG920 on ebay...will spare your forehead but trouble your nose.....

Post by **PalmerTech** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:57 pm

3dvison wrote:Although from a review on this site (PalmerTech) for the Phillips scuba, it sounds like too much weight on the forehead can be bad also.

The Scuba had such a fabulous head mounting system, strap wise. The front was not very comfortable, though.

Unfortunately, the Scuba was 1.2lbs, and the HMZ-T1 is 0.9lbs. Not really much of a difference, so lets hope that it is comfortable for long term use!

The best design for HMDs is where they can get the weight to rest on the top of your head. No inertia problems, and you barely even notice it is there!