RifTUP! FullHD Oculus DK1 upgrade kit

[silentbrain]

My bridge board is one of the Hybus.(They make various solution of embeded and this is derived result of another product.) LD070WU2-SM01 panel size & resolution ratio is perfectly match with DK1 and I do not need lense replace & etc!! So temporary replacement using marking tape is very easy.

But this panel is portrait resolution and rotation needed. Futhermore new hdmi input cable / 12V power cable / DK1's tracking sesor cable are need arrangement. Now, this board is working at 53Hz and need more tunning of Hybus.

Successfully Screen door effect decreased, readability increased!! But some application with EDID check is not work with VR mode.


Special thanks to Hybus.

[Inscothen]

...and I do not need lense replace

You don't need to change the lenses, I was just saying it would improve the modded devkit more

Here's a post I made in June to give example:

If anyone is interested, I took some pics comparing the 50mm 5x lens to the Rift's. I used a 5.6" 1280x800 panel so the DevKit with these lenses would have more pixelation because of lower PPI.

• I used a iPad to take the pics which has a much lower FOV than your eye so you see less screen real estate thru the lens in the pics where the camera was held against the lenses.
  
  The lenses were held at their respective proper distances to the screen.
  
  The image sensor is causing some kind of rainbow effect with the screen's LCD so ignore that.

the lenses held at different distance to camera so the lens would almost fill the image, the eye to screen distance of the 50mm is much farther than the Rift lens:
http://i.imgur.com/gKrYWLI.jpg

the iPad camera held at same distance to lenses like lens setup in the rift would be:
http://i.imgur.com/0y3FC5n.jpg

the camera pressed right against the lenses:
http://i.imgur.com/B1y2vX1.jpg

...because the camera is lower FOV compared to eye, the circles in the first pic i posted in this thread will not be visible. your eyes would see way more of the screen like when using the rift.

Depending on any new lenses and provided you can change the distortion parameters in the Rift, anyone doing a devkit mod could use new lenses with or without a display swap.

[Ziggurat]

...and I do not need lense replace

You don't need to change the lenses, I was just saying it would improve the modded devkit more

Here's a post I made in June to give example:

If anyone is interested, I took some pics comparing the 50mm 5x lens to the Rift's. I used a 5.6" 1280x800 panel so the DevKit with these lenses would have more pixelation because of lower PPI.

• I used a iPad to take the pics which has a much lower FOV than your eye so you see less screen real estate thru the lens in the pics where the camera was held against the lenses.
  
  The lenses were held at their respective proper distances to the screen.
  
  The image sensor is causing some kind of rainbow effect with the screen's LCD so ignore that.

the lenses held at different distance to camera so the lens would almost fill the image, the eye to screen distance of the 50mm is much farther than the Rift lens:
http://i.imgur.com/gKrYWLI.jpg

the iPad camera held at same distance to lenses like lens setup in the rift would be:
http://i.imgur.com/0y3FC5n.jpg

the camera pressed right against the lenses:
http://i.imgur.com/B1y2vX1.jpg

...because the camera is lower FOV compared to eye, the circles in the first pic i posted in this thread will not be visible. your eyes would see way more of the screen like when using the rift.

Depending on any new lenses and provided you can change the distortion parameters in the Rift, anyone doing a devkit mod could use new lenses with or without a display swap.

But the question is, does this hold true with the new screen? I mean the better lenses might not produce the same result while the resolution is higher, and might even degrade the image?

[Inscothen]

The 5.6" screen with the 50mm DIY Rift lenses considerably better than with the DK lenses IMHO. I don't see how that would change with a higher res replacement screen.

[3dvison]

My bridge board is one of the Hybus.
But some application with EDID check is not work with VR mode.

Is that because you disconnected the old rift screen and loose the EDID or is the EDID in the Rifts control box or Tracker and you are not using those either ?

[wileythecoyote]

My bridge board is one of the Hybus.
But some application with EDID check is not work with VR mode.

Is that because you disconnected the old rift screen and loose the EDID or is the EDID in the Rifts control box or Tracker and you are not using those either ?

EDID is Extended Display Identification Data that is sent through display interface cable - like dvi - to the video source. This data tells the source what kind of data the screen needs, like pixel mappings, timings etc...
In this case it's used to identify the rift dk.
If no rift is recognized the application with edid check will no work.
This might be a bit of a problem if we try to replace the devkits screen with a screen with a different aspect ratio or orientation.
The name of the screen should be easily edited by flashing the control board's eeprom chip, but if the app checks for other data we might be a bit screwed :/

[RikuDesu]

Have the Oculus guys given any information about that?

[Hornet]

This is post from Daniel not me work ! But really exciting.

Good evening or morning... our wonder is coming to your eyes soon!

After two days of work.. yesterday for hardware assembly and today software coding till now I've got a working MIPI display with slight error - the picture is too yellow..(now it is OK) I would say some color matrix issue as the HDI receiver is too smart

Not sure if it is worth to post publicly, as this is a 5.0" panel... and not perfect yet. But you can share the joy that at least something works!

[Hornet]

This is the last post from Daniel:

It is actually 4.97"

+-60Hz operation (I've put there the timing of LCD, but kept 148.5MHz FullHD clock... so the result is rather more than 60Hz.. something like 62Hz as the display has less blanking than a standard FullHD mode).

The 5.9" and the 5.5" module does not work yet (might be hardware issue and/or initialization code problem).

Peter, please post the pictures at MTBS3D and initiate a discussion how to proceed next!

[OzOnE2k10]

Hi, guys and gals,

Fantastic progress, eh!?
VERY nice looking panel and board.

I'm just e-mailing Daniel about the latest board.
He's looking to concentrate on getting the larger 5.9" panel working next so they can be used in the DK1 etc.

I've often seen people on here ask for the larger size panels if possible (5.9" to 7") to get the best HFOV.

He's just confirmed that the MIPI dev platform will be shrunk down a fair bit for the Rift, so it should fit behind the panel.
We're just trying to brainstorm on whether to keep the standard HDMI / Mini-HDMI port on there, or if we can solder the wires directly to the MIPI board to save weight etc.

There are a few options for the cable(s)...

1. Use the original Rift cable and make a breakout for USB / power / HDMI at the other end? (make a "bypass" version of the original controller board)
2. Use an HDMI cable and pass USB / power through it too (plus breakout at the other end). <- feasible to cause damage if plugged directly into a PC!
3. Use separate thin HDMI and USB cables - power the MIPI + panel via USB? <- nice neat connection direct to PC, may require two USB ports for the power?


I'm guessing many of you would prefer a single-cable solution if possible?

If USB / power is passed through a standard HDMI cable, I can test the quality of various cables to ensure the wires can handle the current etc.
With a custom breakout / bypass board, we could just re-use the original DK1 controller housing, so no fear of plugging the wrong thing into the PC.

I'm trying not to create more work for Daniel if I can.
Would option 3 be an idea if two thin cables were used?

(Another idea was to keep the MIPI board external to the Rift, but I very much doubt the MIPI signals are designed be driven through a long cable (like HDMI) without degradation.)

The great thing is that Daniel has made the MIPI test platform modular, so he can add a board for each type of new panel that comes along.
The "panel adapter" board includes the backlight driver and various power regs that each panel might need.

He can even swap out the HDMI receiver / MIPI board / MCU boards separately! Very clever.

EDIT: Hornet already posted the pic of the MIPI test platform.

OzOnE.

[OzOnE2k10]

OK, looks like Daniel is going for a simple breakout board for the Rift-up kits.

That allows us to use a single thin long-ish HDMI cable to handle the whole lot (video + USB + power).
It will then be a similar layout to the original DK1 controller box, but with the option for a longer cable.

We're now looking at options for adding stereo or 5.1 / 7.1 headphone output too.

Might be straightforward to just add a DAC chip to the HDMI receiver, or add a USB hub chip (to share with the tracker) to allow for an off-the-shelf USB audio dongle.

The USB option may prove a better option all round, as this gives us the choice of audio dongle, or whether people even want that option at all.

(The HDMI audio option will assume that all of you will be using a modern gfx card for your Rifts which allows HDMI audio output.
If many of you chime in to say that your PC or laptop doesn't support this, then we may be inclined to go with the USB audio option instead.)

Do many of you like the idea of a 5.1 / 7.1 headphone output, or would a simple stereo output suffice?

OzOnE.

[mr.uu]

Personally i would like option 3 most. Thin Seperate hdmi and usb cables. Because i do not like to damage the rift - even though i do want to improve it, i would like to be able to reverse it to the original state.

On the other hand it is completely up to Daniel to decide what way to go. I bought his ipad retina board which works flawless and i will go with whatever option he comes foreward.

I do not want to bother him so ozone, maybe you could ask him if he is also working on a iPad mini retina board? I am quite certain, that in a couple of month we will have good access to used panels. Maybe only a firmware update of the iPad board is necessary?

Another idea: anyone who saw the picture of the valve prototype saw, that it uses two panels side by side in portrait mode. So maybe Daniel could realise a controller board for two smaller panels. Will work only with DP, HDMI lacks the bandwith for two fullHD panels at a good refresh rate so far... But the DPI would be awsome!!!

Again, i am happy with ANY improvement!

Thank you all!

EDIT: usb 5.1 audio sounds awsome, btw...

[rozsnyo]

The two 5" side by side is on my request list for somebody. It can be done either with duallink DVI, DisplayPort or HDMI 1.3 (or is that 1.4?) - I've got a module which claims support for 297MHz HDMI, that is 1080p120 = two FHD screens. The question is, if computers and cables are capable of handling that.

Also - two panels portrait mode side by side means no delay due to rotation... it would appear as a single 2160x1920 @ 60Hz surface.
Two panels put landscape would be oddly scanned again, so that I could not advice.

For 5.1 audio: three 3.5mm jacks (four with mic) would do ?

Ask questions / make suggestions here (or open a new thread), I had subscribed now for new message notifications

Btw, the 7" panels are also portrait scanned.. so that is of no help in terms of being better.

[OzOnE2k10]

Hi, mr.uu,

Technically, the upgrade kit shouldn't damage the Rift either.
We're hoping to be able to install it without cutting any of the case (unless we need drill holes for an extra cable or the audio outputs).

Two panels is doable by spanning the image I guess, but that would need an FPGA / framebuffer RAM, and quite a lot of coding.

An easier option is to just use Eyefinity / 3D Surround to drive the two panels directly from the same gfx card.
Any half-decent modern card should handle two 1080p panels fine of course.

Yep, I like the idea of 5.1 / 7.1 too.
If a DAC / Amp chip can be added to the new board without too much effort, almost all gfx cards support HDMI audio output now.


Oh, Hi, Daniel

As you say, I think 2x 120Hz panels may be pushing it for the average PC. There are some pretty powerful gaming rigs that should handle it though.
Are you still looking at using FPGAs to do extra processing / rotation / spanning?

Looks like the portrait mode is working fine in Windows btw - I take it the PC just picks up on the EDID for that right away?

mr.uu was wondering if have you'd done any testing yet with iPad mini Retina panels?

Three or four 3.5mm audio jacks sounds good, but it then comes down to how much amp power is needed.
I don't know what most of the guys on here are using for headphones (if at all), and some of them may be active powered?


OzOnE.

[rozsnyo]

Two panels needs just the simplest FPGA (with 112+ io for four 24 bit image ports) which buffers the incoming line and then sends it out with different interleaving.

Maybe we should focus only on simple audio of hdmi (stereo) and usb (headphone + mic)... how would one control the volume? (put an encoder / pot there?)

ipad2 mini retina: haven't done any research yet, they are not available as spare parts so far.

[OzOnE2k10]

Hi,

What I'm worried about is getting stuck with the audio stuff and detracting from the display stuff too much.
(I don't want you to get too bogged down with this design, as I know you're very busy. )

If you can put an encoder on the board, or even just the pins, then that sounds good.
Maybe just stereo via HDMI as a default option, then 5.1 / 7.1 as an add-on option via USB?

The DAC / amp chip will need to be one of those all-in-one chips with a Class-D / switching amp ideally.

I guess that if someone really wanted to minimize the number of cables, they could always use wireless headphones.
Audio output through the same cable would be a nice feature though.

Anyone care to chime in here?
We need to gauge interest in built-in audio output really.

It may require a little bit more work to fit into the Rift though, such as drilling a few small holes etc.
Maybe we could leave the audio stuff as an option, and only populate the board with the DAC / sockets if needed?

OzOnE.

[3dvison]

I like the idea of 7inch 1080p screen.
As far as audio goes, I don't really need it, I just want a 1080p Rift. I have always had these on my to buy list anyway.Those headphones have a volume dial and other easy to reach buttons on them also. And truck loads of good reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless ... B003VANOFY

I just want a 1080p screen ASAP yesterday.

[shavster]

I agree, I'd rather have the 1080p panel upgrade and use existing headphones than potentially have to wait longer for the headphone intergeneration work to be done.

[Libertine]

If i understand correctly....I have super comfortable over ear Beyerdynamic DT770s right now that i'd like to continue using.

Although, I am not totally familiar with this project. Will you be selling them?

[ripcurl123]

I agree with 3dvision just 1080p would be great sound not that important more than likely wont be used if its built in.
Can anyone confirm maybe Daniel that a 7 inch screen is in the pipeline?

[yunti]

I like the idea of 7inch 1080p screen.
As far as audio goes, I don't really need it, I just want a 1080p Rift. I have always had these on my to buy list anyway.Those headphones have a volume dial and other easy to reach buttons on them also. And truck loads of good reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless ... B003VANOFY

I just want a 1080p screen ASAP yesterday.

I'm the same not fussed for audio - especially if it might delay things. Thanks for your work so far.

[Fredz]

Would it be possible for the board to support low-persistence when using OLED panels, ie. no buffering of the image (data sent as soon as it's available) and illumination for less than 3 ms ?

[mr.uu]

Well, audio-wise i would also like to keep it simple.
Personally i use (mostly) active 5.1 headphones with integrated volume wheel. But i am perfectly fine with a simple stereo jack somewhere near the rift-panel to plug in light-weight in-ear headphones. Just keep it simple, Daniel!

If i really wanna use 5.1 i could use then seperate cabling as i do right now...

Love to hear that you are looking into the dual 5" setup, too. If DP (my favorite) or hdmi (2xseperate? Or one combined per fpga?) is up to you, but two cables are quite heavy (at least it feels that way in my setup (2xDP-cable)). I think this would be definately my option (despite the cost ), too! 120Hz, 2x FHD - oh my god, YEEESSSS!

I scratch my head that some do think it is a must to drive the screnes in native resolution, which is of course not true. Higher resolution - even if driven lower than native - is always beneficial! Think about screendoor!


Thank you all for your efforts!

[3dvison]

Btw, the 7" panels are also portrait scanned.. so that is of no help in terms of being better.

Do you mean it would be a problem for a two screen setup ?
Is the 7 inch still OK for a single screen replacement ? Even if you do have to rotate the picture from portrait to landscape, is that not going to be a problem with the 7inch, as long as you are doing single screen only ?

[Inscothen]

To me, adding audio just increases cost/size. I understand that this display/mipi solution could be sold to others for their hardware projects and help rozsnyo get more customers/exposure, but I could do without audio and be fine with it.

[KBK]

The realtek RTD2975K and the RTD2995 chips should start appearing on dual channel LVDS boards, any time now. (Boards that can be purchased, that is)

Both are in the4k resolution and scaling ranges, with capacities in the +120hz range (1080P/120Hz only?).

It's not just panel interface problems, as most in this thread know well enough.

On the 2995 chip:

“The RTD2995 is the first 4K2K TV single-chip solution targeted at the 4K2K Smart/Android/Google TV market."

It may be mipi out capable, if that one sentence is any indicator. Single chip solution means, most likely.. HDMI('ish', ie functional format for that input section on the chip) in, (hopefully) Mipi out, single chip. Latency is not known, of course. Depends on how it is buffered and what forms of control/toggling/programming are offered for the chip.

http://www.realtek.com.tw/press/newsVie ... =1&Level=1

More:"The RTD2995 is a comprehensive and full-featured smart TV controller offering video decoding up to 4K2K and encoding up to 1080p, a powerful multi-core ARM CPU, a high-performance multi-core 3D GPU, support for 3D shutter glass and PR panel, support for all 4K2K panels, 4K2K Video/Photo Playback and HDMI 4K2K input, 4K2K Android 4.x TV with APP application, support for Gesture Control and Object Recognition, and support for 3D Game and Sports Applications."



I suspect that this chip's pdf file will be tricky to find, as usual.

[rozsnyo]

I have drafted the simplest idea which came to my mind. Usb to rift is not yet solved - either jumpering or with a 2 port usb hub we manage both the board and rift.
The power over hdmi is because I am doing the splitter as external board and probably it can power the screens just by hdmi cable. Not sure if we should take USB there too (on the I2C pins), maybe we make that optional (and put the EDID in the docking board).

What do you think?

Does anybody got a spare rift sensor? So that I can probably design directly for it in mechanical sense?

This 5.0 is rather for experimentation, so we should just make it simple. The 5.5" solution will be done in a week and I hope once I manage the 5.9" screen too

[3dvison]

I built a diy Rift.
Why cant we just get a 1080p screen, and use a separate very thin hdmi cable and a separate power supply which also has a very thin cable to power the 7inch 1080p screen.
You can use the rift control box and USB cable to power the Rifts tracker which I have read also has the edid info.
I think that is true, because if you only connect the USB to the Rift control box and no video cable, a Game/Demo still detects a Rift and does tracking and video on your monitor.
Can't we just get a 1080p 7inch screen up and running and use one of the very thin hdmi redmere cables.(I have used one with the Rift and they work) and a separate power supply which is also a very thin cable to power the 7inch 1080p screen.

A day lost is a day closer to Dev.Kit 2.

UPDATE "The 5.5" solution will be done in a week"..Sorry I missed that...LOL

[mr.uu]

Daniel, sounds great for me.
Cost for the two 5.5" displays and your board + breakout box?
If there is a breakout box, it would have dual hdmi input and usb3.0 (Because of the 900mA, enough for powering the two screens?) input and this rerouted via fpga to one hdmi output with unused hdmi pins used for powering the screens?
Or is there no breakout box and i hook it up to two hdmi ports on the gfx card and do eyefinity setup for one 2160x1920 screen, the two displays are powered via the two usb-ports on your two boards?

Please INPUT!

I personally would like you to go with the simplest (without breakout box) solution, which then could be ready in a couple of weeks(?)!.

Are there light weight hdmi cables which you can recommend? EDIT: Thank you 3dvison for mentioning light cables. Will look into these... EDIT2: yep, RedMere is the way to go .

Thank you!

[rozsnyo]

I haven't tried lightweight HDMI cables yet. But I am willing to do any HDMI size (standard/mini/micro) depending what cables people here can find/recommend!

The board should be ready in 3-4 weeks... is HDMI directing DOWN (dualscreen) or RIGHT (single screen) okay?

The dual screen version will be possible to hook up to 2 hdmi without any extra stuff - it is just two separate units. But you need a Quadro for Mosaic (merging 2 outputs into 1 surface for 3D), or maybe an ATI (eyefinity?). For those who have a high speed hdmi (Intel?) I can make the hdmi splitter.

[mr.uu]

http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-15-Feet ... hdmi+cable

RedMere cabling 25$ for 15feet, 50$ for 30feet.

Personally i would definately go with a dual setup, because of the higher resolution. I also do think that DOWN facing STANDARD hdmi connector is the way to go, because single setup can also use the then right or left connector well. OR you design the hdmi connector like on the iPad retina board, facing INWARDS, in which case we all are winners.

And, i use ati eyefinity, which works hassle-free.

Could we do a group buy on the 5.5" screens? Do you have a price? Will the board be around the price of the iPad one?

EDIT: hey, i can buy them from Germany even cheaper (i am from Austria):
http://www.amazon.de/Monoprice-HDMI-Kab ... ds=Redmere

[3dvison]

I do need to say that the RedMere type of cable is a ONEWAY cable.
One end is made to be connected to the (Source Output) and the other end (Which is the end with the RedMere chip in it) goes to the Display Input.
I have used it with the Rift with no problems and they are very thin and light cables, but you would not use it in a case where you are sending information back and forth.

[3dvison]

Personally i would definately go with a dual setup, because of the higher resolution.

And, i use ati eyefinity, which works hassle-free.

Could we do a group buy on the 5.5" screens? Do you have a price? Will the board be around the price of the iPad one?

mr.uu has won me over.
Now I like the idea of dual 5.5 screens.
Thats if simply buying an ATI video card will make both screens work together with no problems and no need to go with Nvidia and Quadro for Mosaic.
Did I say I want it NOW..LOL...

[Kernel32]

Does anybody got a spare rift sensor? So that I can probably design directly for it in mechanical sense?

My Rift DK1/parts in Prague fully at your disposal. I'm also doing casing 3d model as soon as there are dimensions available.

Very delighted to see there is a board coming Daniel

[mr.uu]

Personally i would definately go with a dual setup, because of the higher resolution.

And, i use ati eyefinity, which works hassle-free.

Could we do a group buy on the 5.5" screens? Do you have a price? Will the board be around the price of the iPad one?

mr.uu has won me over.
Now I like the idea of dual 5.5 screens.
Thats if simply buying an ATI video card will make both screens work together with no problems and no need to go with Nvidia and Quadro for Mosaic.
Did I say I want it NOW..LOL...

Well, actually i am wrong about the "...higher resolution" statement. To use two screens instead of one does not increase the resolution (ppi) of the area i am looking with the DK1. BUT a 5.5" screen has higher ppi than a 5.9" screen. Therefore my statement was half true .
Because of that fact, do you think one 5.5" screen for my IPD of 69,5mm is enough? I do not think so...
So i either go with a one 5.9" or two 5.5" setup.

Daniel, does your board support a dual 5.5" at 120Hz? If yes, up to which resolution? I do know, that your board does only support the native resolution (like your iPad board), but GFX-scaling (setting in CCC) works perfectly for me .

Thank you for your time.

[3dvison]

Got it mr.uu.
In that case, I still think a 7inch 1080p screen is the easiest way to go.
In the end I really only wanted a little bit more resolution than the DK-1 had.
I think the 7inch would match up better with the DK-1 7inch screen for IPD settings and horizontal FOV..
The thing I don't like about my 5.6inch DIY Rift is how small the screen is in horizontal plane. And more magnification just zooms the view in too much. I like the 7inch in my DK-1 Rift better for its larger horizontal size.
So I guess I am back in the 7inch screen camp.
I think the 7inch with the 3m privacy filter mod would be a perfect combo. http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=18127
But can Daniel get the 7inch screen ?

[rozsnyo]

I have a borrowed 5.5" kit - it does run my screen so I will try to use the timing / init sequence from it on my devkit. Shall we start then a different thread for my stuff? (maybe once I introduce the final design and will accept orders?)

[ripcurl123]

I have a borrowed 5.5" kit - it does run my screen so I will try to use the timing / init sequence from it on my devkit. Shall we start then a different thread for my stuff? (maybe once I introduce the final design and will accept orders?)

starting a new thread would be a good idea so as not to confuse things, also now your finally joined (yee haa) mtbs.com we may have much needed progress ,can i also make a suggestion it would be great if you can maybe update us with videos on youtube as sometimes pictures says a thousand words saves a lot of time that way..
what do people think.

dave

[mr.uu]

Got it mr.uu.
In that case, I still think a 7inch 1080p screen is the easiest way to go.
In the end I really only wanted a little bit more resolution than the DK-1 had.
I think the 7inch would match up better with the DK-1 7inch screen for IPD settings and horizontal FOV..
The thing I don't like about my 5.6inch DIY Rift is how small the screen is in horizontal plane. And more magnification just zooms the view in too much. I like the 7inch in my DK-1 Rift better for its larger horizontal size.
So I guess I am back in the 7inch screen camp.
I think the 7inch with the 3m privacy filter mod would be a perfect combo. http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=18127
But can Daniel get the 7inch screen ?

Just to be clear: a dual 5.5" FHD setup is much better than a 7" FHD, ppi-wise 400 to 320. So i will not go with a 7" FHD if there is a possible dual 5.5" setup.

Daniel, how is the width of the dual 5.5" setup? And how narrow can we bring the two screens together (middle divider)?

Personally i do not need videos, if a few are sold, these videos will go viral anyway!

[rozsnyo]

The 5.5" is half-way done.. I give it a last try incorporating the custom EDID data before actually sniffing the config packets...