The Sony HMD is real!

Talk about Head Mounted Displays (HMDs), augmented reality, wearable computing, controller hardware, haptic feedback, motion tracking, and related topics here!
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ancjob
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

cybereality wrote:Not sure if anyone cares, but Vuzix built the 1200VR so it could be easily modded. The display module is a separate piece from the glasses, and can be easily snapped out of place. You can also remove the ear-phones, and has independent IPD and diopter. Even though I've said the product was low quality in the past, I do respect that Vuzix included a lot of good features in there that competitors, namely Sony, have neglected.
cyber - what good are other features when main feature - image quality is crap.....and price is high for the specs it has....usd$599 - who will pay those junkies this much when there are better options now just usd200 more[st1080,sony HMD,cinemizer OLED] .....unless one has severe mental issues / sickness , one'd stay away from vuzix and we'd do this a community in protest as they have been taking us for a ride for such a long time......it's time to wise up for vuzix and give us the 'real' HMD....we are fed up of crappy toys

somebody wakeup vuzix from their deep slumber :(
Last edited by ancjob on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pierreye
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by pierreye »

Few more days to go before getting my unit. Will do a review as follow:

1. Out of the box experience.
2. After mod especially on comfort (maybe using center strap or bicycle helmet whichever method that can give me a secure fitting).
3. VR gaming using Wii Sharpshooter, Wireless HDMI, portable battery pack all mounted on Tactical vest.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BQ ... 00_details" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by brantlew »

@ancjob: You can find brand new Vuzix 920VR for $300 now. Not the most premium displays out there, but if you factor in the head tracker and the fact that it is probably the most stylish and mobile HMD, then I don't think it's a bad deal.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by WiredEarp »

Ok, Im thinking I might get myself one. Wheres the best place to buy from? I wouldn't want to pay US$1200 for a US$800 item...
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

brantlew wrote:@ancjob: You can find brand new Vuzix 920VR for $300 now. Not the most premium displays out there, but if you factor in the head tracker and the fact that it is probably the most stylish and mobile HMD, then I don't think it's a bad deal.
the fov is 30-31 somewhere and display quality is just avg...
i recall the displays of av920 the image was very sharp and colors were good but the fov was just 32....the unit 's 3d performance had a lot of flickers...[small horizontal lines] on all modes

As 2D monitor it [av920] was good marred only by low FOV.....so it was returned to seller for refund....that was the last of vuzix....for me!
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by WiredEarp »

I've pretty much read the entire thread on avsforum. It seems these are the main points about the HMZ.

- It looks pretty awesome graphically
- It had cheapish headphones that do the job but are not particularly liked
- it has 'blurred' edges, unless users position the displays correctly. Like the Z800, many of the users have said that if you push the lenses closer to your eyes, you can see the edges clearly.
- some users are unable to adjust so both eyes are clear. Some people have modded it by taking out the gear that moves both eyepieces, so you can adjust them independently. Not sure if this helped those peoples issues or not.
- it has a very small 'sweet spot' which sounds rather like the headplay's issues. To use it as an HMD requires that you mount it very firmly so it doesn't not move.
- its ridiculously uncomfortable. Virtually EVERYONE says it hurts their nose and forehead.
- mods have been done which make it very comfortable apparently. I've seen several, the two best seem to be modding it with a bike helmet, or modding it with extra straps/padded straps.
- it can be taken apart and the weight halved.

Generally speaking, it sounds pretty damn good. Im quite tempted. A couple of things holding me back - the ST1080 released some specs today and they sound pretty good, and a guy in avsforums said that a Sony guy told him that there would be a new version of the headset out within a year with an integrated head tracker (and, you'd hope, an actual ergonomic design).
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by pierreye »

The question is can you wait for a year?
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by WiredEarp »

Depends on what pricing I can find one at.
If I could find one at actual price, I'd probably buy one now just because it will work right now with my current setup.

I don't really care enough to pay US$1200-1600 right now however if there are others coming on the market anyway. However, am a bit paranoid there will be nothing else actually out for ages and that I'll miss out...
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

i'd rather get st1080 than sony as i do not like OLEDs as the image quality is NOT as cool as LCoS....

headplay image quality is miles ahead of z800......for the same movie i cannot watch it for more than 10 min on z800 - headplay gives FULL color although requires adjustments....once adjusted properly its the best display i have seen so far....

in fact st1080 will an upgrade from headplay in terms of FOV and resolution...
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by pierreye »

LCOS better than OLED? I don't think so. LCOS still using backlight so black wouldn't as good as OLED thus lower contrast ratio. Almost all users of HMZ-T1 say the black is as good as KURO plasma and way much better than LCOS projector.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by brantlew »

pierreye wrote:The question is can you wait for a year?
I can definitely wait. Maybe if it was packaged well right now it would be worth it, but it sounds like it can't really be used for VR without extensive structural modding. So if I have to create a custom mod anyway, I might as well wait for a proper Sony upgrade or just wait for the Palmer mods which are better for VR anyway.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by cbwan »

I just go my Sony HMD :D
Now I'm just trying to find the parameters for a correct calibration.
I've set a vertical fov of 25.3 ( 45 * 9 / 16 ).
Anybody knows what the distance from the eyes to the virtual screens is ?
So I can set the convergence distance right.

Thanks !
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by Corex »

LCoS can infact have better contrast than standard LCD and Plasma displays, but for immersion i rather go witht he HMZ-T1 and wait for a couple for their ST1080 to develop some more, with functions such as transparency settings and stuff, they have very good resolution, but i still think the OLED will dominate the picture quality in the end, the color reproduction, blackness and response times. If we get full HD OLEDs so we don't have to see them screen-door-effect and alil better optics, that will be extremly hard to beat with other technology when it comes to total immersion, sure 2D and see through stuff LCoS is the obvious choice like a heads up display. Transparent OLEDs are also possible but i don't see why really ;P We'll see when they get released though and have something to compare to in the end.

EDIT: I think to get rid of the screen-door-effect will require alot more pixels than Full HD but would be nice to see the final effect though.
Last edited by Corex on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
ancjob
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

while i own both emagin z800 and headplay
i do not know the tech intricacies [black levels etc] but i do know that image on headplay is almost HD-LCD colors are deep and rich whereas z800 produces image which does not have FULL blown colors and contrast is the worst!.....only +ve - the good optics that's it!

i watch movies on Headplay only....think if i'd get more FOV and resolution [st1080] it will be great!
so ardently waiting for st1080 and reviews on it....i dunno how they can manage fov 45 without IPD/Focus adjustments......optics is the only point i am skeptical abt for st1080
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by CyberVillain »

Are the headphones removable? I want to use my good old trusty Sennheizer headset....
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by cybereality »

CyberVillain wrote:Are the headphones removable? I want to use my good old trusty Sennheizer headset....
Sadly, no.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by CyberVillain »

cybereality wrote:
CyberVillain wrote:Are the headphones removable? I want to use my good old trusty Sennheizer headset....
Sadly, no.

:/ Stupid of Sony
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by WiredEarp »

@ ancjob: I've noticed the Z800's color depth seems quite low... things get washed out quite quickly if you dont get the contrast/brightness correct. Its beautifully sharp however once you have it adjusted correctly, I actually worked in windows for about 15 minutes using it as a screen with no problems.

Is headplay compatible with 3D Vision? I'm just wondering if it could be made to work just like the Z800 now works? If it could be made to work, it would probably make a decent gaming HMD considering its cheap as nowadays...
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by WiredEarp »

Apparently you can remove the headphones, you just need to open it up and unplug a plug and remove some screws, at least I think thats what some guy on avsforums said...
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by PalmerTech »

I can confirm that, removing the headphones/headphone arms is very easy to do. Problem is, they are also used as a sort of counterbalance, to shift some of the weight behind the forehead rest. Removing them makes the HMZ a little less comfortable, and it does not exactly have comfort to spare. :P
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

WiredEarp wrote:@ ancjob: I've noticed the Z800's color depth seems quite low... things get washed out quite quickly if you dont get the contrast/brightness correct. Its beautifully sharp however once you have it adjusted correctly, I actually worked in windows for about 15 minutes using it as a screen with no problems.

Is headplay compatible with 3D Vision? I'm just wondering if it could be made to work just like the Z800 now works? If it could be made to work, it would probably make a decent gaming HMD considering its cheap as nowadays...

i never tried 3D vision but i do plan to ....considering the quality that headplay has - i am keeping z800 just for the sake of optics else i 'd have sold it anytime....

if you plan to get headplay [around usd$299] get it with it's mod here : http://www.fpv-plastics.com/page3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but given the hmd scenario - it's a bang for the buck....
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by pierreye »

Just received the unit and here is my first impression under an hour use.

Let's start with the con.

1. The adjustment does take sometime to get the optic correct. It is very picky and your eye must be spot on to get a good focus all around the corner. Best is to rip off the head pad and just get a wrist pad and wrap around the naked plastic. This will get the lens as close to the eye as possible and also increase the viewing angle.

2. Comfort as it is. Not really comfortable as the unit weight actually rest on the head pad thus putting the weight on your forehead. With the wrist pad replacing the head pad, it does reduce the pressure but the design should pull a strap from the head pad and tie to the back of the head strip to distribute the weight from the forehead to the top of the head. You really need to do some modding to get comfortable.

3. Reflection on the lens is visible if light leakage around HMD. Shouldn't be a problem if you can cover the whole HMD to prevent light leakage into the viewing area. I'm thinking of a easier mod that is to put some rubber eyepiece to cover the optic to prevent external light.

4. Earphone is average but I'm use to HT sound system with twin sub so can't compare.

Pros:
1. Black is really good. Not inky black but at least in 2.35 format movie, the black bar at the top and bottom is quite dark that it is not bothering when watching movie.

2. 3D is good with sense of depth. I try out Captain America 3D and I feel the depth is as good as my 3D projector.

3. Color is quite good out of the box but could be further improve with proper tuning (maybe I'll try out Lumagen RadianceMini).

4. Screen size is pretty huge but I can't give an exact size cause everything is relative. Just say that I don't feel size is a problem here. The FOV is pretty good for movie.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

pierreye wrote:Just received the unit and here is my first impression under an hour use.

Let's start with the con.

1. The adjustment does take sometime to get the optic correct. It is very picky and your eye must be spot on to get a good focus all around the corner. Best is to rip off the head pad and just get a wrist pad and wrap around the naked plastic. This will get the lens as close to the eye as possible and also increase the viewing angle.

2. Comfort as it is. Not really comfortable as the unit weight actually rest on the head pad thus putting the weight on your forehead. With the wrist pad replacing the head pad, it does reduce the pressure but the design should pull a strap from the head pad and tie to the back of the head strip to distribute the weight from the forehead to the top of the head. You really need to do some modding to get comfortable.

3. Reflection on the lens is visible if light leakage around HMD. Shouldn't be a problem if you can cover the whole HMD to prevent light leakage into the viewing area. I'm thinking of a easier mod that is to put some rubber eyepiece to cover the optic to prevent external light.

4. Earphone is average but I'm use to HT sound system with twin sub so can't compare.

Pros:
1. Black is really good. Not inky black but at least in 2.35 format movie, the black bar at the top and bottom is quite dark that it is not bothering when watching movie.

2. 3D is good with sense of depth. I try out Captain America 3D and I feel the depth is as good as my 3D projector.

3. Color is quite good out of the box but could be further improve with proper tuning (maybe I'll try out Lumagen RadianceMini).

4. Screen size is pretty huge but I can't give an exact size cause everything is relative. Just say that I don't feel size is a problem here. The FOV is pretty good for movie.

i do not know why i get the feeling that once people have this - they are not excited abt reviewing it in minute details [excitement fizzles out becoz of poor design i guess] may be they start to think of selling it off at a premium due to Christmas being around to make good money and get rid of 'poor' device too soon - or may be i am mistaken but this thing's design is a 'put off' for me - a heavy headplay with fov 51 and HD-OLEDS....i guess

thanks or the review - i hope you get to keep it and enjoy as well pal also you try out this Japanese mod here : pal , here's the link below for the website where you can order from :

http://www.blazin3d.com/catalog/item/80 ... 095948.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


it's Japanese hand made set of 3 cushions currently selling for usd$48+

if i ever get this then i will definetely the above mod....as it's gonna solve the issue of 'weight' on forehead....to some extent

also plz reply to queries as below :

1)also does it strain while watching a movie for 2+hrs - do you feel dizzy after taking it off ?
2)is the focus adjust. really difficult ?
3)are u able to focus on all our corners of the screen effortlessly once properly adjusting it ?
4)are the colors vibrant and rich ?
5)does it slip so that you have to adjust it again ?
6)have u tried to watch any subtitled movie - are the subtitles easy to read ?
7)is it easily detected as HDMI device by your laptop/blu-ray player/HTPC ?
8)does this have a 'sweet spot' ?
9)do the supplied light blockers completely BLOCK the light from above /below/sides etc ?
10) have u tried 3D PS3 gaming on this - how's the experience ?
await reply
Last edited by ancjob on Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by CyberVillain »

This looks like a cheap and fast mod, might try it when I receive mine.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... st21222780" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I called Sony Center today to check my queue status and 4 had canceled their preorders so i am now #9 on the list in Sweden, which means I will receive mine within the first batch, sweet :D
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by PalmerTech »

I just installed the HMZ-T1 OLED panels in some Olympus prism optics, and it looks amazing. No distortion, very large exit pupil, and weighs less than half as much as the Sony optics. FOV looks good, still need to make exact calculations. Will let you guys know more as I move further along!
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by android78 »

PalmerTech wrote:I just installed the HMZ-T1 OLED panels in some Olympus prism optics, and it looks amazing. No distortion, very large exit pupil, and weighs less than half as much as the Sony optics. FOV looks good, still need to make exact calculations. Will let you guys know more as I move further along!
I think that we need someone like you working for Sony (or any HMD manufacturer). I'd love to see some pics of the progress you're making.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by PalmerTech »

Working for Sony would be great! At some point in the future, I would love to work at their San Diego location. (It is relatively near me) Sony, if you are reading this, keep me in mind! :P Access to the resources and influence of a giant like Sony would be fantastic, although from what I hear, Sony employees are not able to comment on these kinds of forums about their products. Don't want to vanish from MTBS3D!

As far as pics, ask and ye shall receive:

Image

Image

Image

Looks like I can fit everything in glasses style HMD, maybe 170 grams. At the moment, I have a horizontal FOV of 42 degrees, just a wee bit below the 45 that the stock HMZ-T1 has.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by android78 »

Wow... it's like porn for 3D geeks. :o
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

somebody 'd design a 'glasses like' mod' and all we have to do is take the internal assembly out and fit it in that mod something which sony forgot to do....!
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by cybereality »

Most impressive.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by pierreye »

@ancjob - Please don't miss interpret my review. It is definitely a keeper for me. I just said if you expect that it will impress you in the first hour, you might be disappointed. It take time to adjust and required modding to make it comfortable. The image quality and size is definitely much better than i-glasses and z800 that I returned in less than few days. If you are in the market for a good image quality HMD, Sony would be the one to get below USD 1k (or slightly above from eBay).
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ancjob »

pierreye wrote:@ancjob - Please don't miss interpret my review. It is definitely a keeper for me. I just said if you expect that it will impress you in the first hour, you might be disappointed. It take time to adjust and required modding to make it comfortable. The image quality and size is definitely much better than i-glasses and z800 that I returned in less than few days. If you are in the market for a good image quality HMD, Sony would be the one to get below USD 1k (or slightly above from eBay).

i think we do not have much of a choice either since all other consumer HMDs [st1080,cinemizer OLED] exist in concept only - NOT a real product so sony becomes obvious choice with HD_OLEDS and fov 50 accepting hdmi input....good or bad whatever !

for me it's an upgrade from headplay first i wanted st1080 but it seems vapourware after all so sony is the only decent option...
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by Aeroflux »

I'm waiting for CES to clarify the playing field. Hopefully all the kinks have been worked out of the the Cinemizer and it will be ready for distribution by CES. If not, I will assume it is a project waiting to be cancelled. Sony needs competition in order to improve their design. If the product sells and there is no present danger to their profit margin, they will have no reason to improve.

With the HMZ-T1 it is a question of fabricating an acceptable design, and whether that can be adapted by Sony or distributed as a straight forward process by the modder. The displays are a rare deal for the price, but they are encased in a straight jacket. Maybe by CES the dust will settle and a clear choice on modification will arise as a common cure to the arrogance of Sony R&D...in any event it will be an interesting year for VR solutions.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by pierreye »

Just tested out the battery pack into Belkin 50W inverter and power up the processing unit just fine. Going to try out VR gaming tomorrow.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by mAchiNE »

@pierreye
Thats great news! can't wait to hear of your experience with your HMZ-T1 mobile setup with your Wii/PS3 motion controller :)
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by ERP »

Working for Sony would be great! At some point in the future, I would love to work at their San Diego location. (It is relatively near me) Sony, if you are reading this, keep me in mind! Access to the resources and influence of a giant like Sony would be fantastic, although from what I hear, Sony employees are not able to comment on these kinds of forums about their products. Don't want to vanish from MTBS3D!
All the hardware design for Sony Electronics is done in Japan AFAIK.
Most of Sony's engineering presence in the US is SCEA related.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by Corex »

Think all of that is made in Japan, just look at the design of HMZ-T1.... Screams JAPAN all over it ;P Would be nice to see someone else do the designing part and the tech as is (i would'nt mind Displayport instead of HDMI though but it's some way togo before that happends i guess) DP and fullHD we'll get great refreshrates amongst other things.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by CyberVillain »

Guys I have a Gigabyte GTX590 with 2 DVI and one Display port.. Whats the best way of getting HDMI 1.4 content out of that setup?
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by pierreye »

VR Gaming update.

One word, superb. This is the dream setup I had been waiting for. Image quality is very good and smooth. I don't feel any delay but as Cyber mention, it is better to have a head tracker. Just using the gun tracker is still feel slightly disoriented if you move your gun around without moving the head. Currently I mount everything at the back of the vest and feel it is slightly heavy in the back and tiring after 30 mins of gaming. I'll shift some items to the front to balance the weight. The comfort mod is a must for long hour gaming. I took out the retention gear that move both eye piece IPD together so now I can adjust each eye individually and able to focus from edge to edge.

Only con I can think of is it is quite tiring to hold the rifle and wearing the vest. Well, I can workout and game at the same time.

Here's the photo.
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Re: The Sony HMD is real!

Post by Corex »

CyberVillain wrote:Guys I have a Gigabyte GTX590 with 2 DVI and one Display port.. Whats the best way of getting HDMI 1.4 content out of that setup?
A simple HDMI to Displayport adapter will do the trick. Displayport was made with connectivity in mind so you can also have DVI to DP but then you'll loose the sound in the HMZ-T1 though, HDMI -> DP adapter ftw. Keep in mind that buying HDMI cables with v1.4 written on it is only marketing and get alil more juice out of the deal, you can plug any HDMI v1.3 cable to HDMI v1.4 ports and you'll still have the same HDMI 1.4 content, the source connection is the trivial, the cable is the same.

About the HDMI->DP adapter, check that your graphics card supports it, i know some passive adapters doesn't work with Radeon HD 58xx, don't think nVidia will have that prob though ;P
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