Meant to be Seen

3DNovice wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:52 pm Sad thing is, a community stereoscopic fix for this game (non HMD) would not have received mention on any gaming website.

I completely agree, DMan (you are NOT a 3DNovice...). The incredible work performed by this 3D gaming community has been completely ignored by the broader gaming community. I am frustrated when I see the ongoing hype for Luke Ross' RDR2 VR fix (like techradar, kotaku, IGN, and Eurogamer web sites). I have asked bo3b previously if he knew how to more proactively advertise this community, but nothing evolved. For example, Helifax's Vk3DVision driver is truly world-class, but almost no gamers know about it - even though current VR HMD users could enjoy it now...

Does anyone in our small community have any contacts with some of these gaming websites, to help encourage broader awareness of this community's talented shaderhackers and their extraordinary work?

I plan to try that VR mod for RDR2 soon. I'm 56 years old but really didn't get back into games until 3D became possible. I haven't played a game in 2D since the DOS days. I have no interest in 2D pancake games and have never bought a game that doesn't work in 3D. If 3D compatibility stops. I stop playing it.

I got into VR early with my Z800 HMD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DKv7LN-VM Home PCVR back then was simply a big immersive screen with 3D and 3 degrees of freedom. I have a problem separating 3D and VR because great 3D is a necessary element of VR. Most made for VR games have brilliant 3D. Most VR mods I've played also had great 3D and touch controller bindings that made the game feel as if it were made for VR. The only exception to that, I've found so far, has been the VR mod that I tried for GTA 5, not sure if it was by the same modder in question. Without a doubt the worst VR mod I tried so far. The 3D was all wrong, head movements resulted in the worst fisheye graphics I've ever seen in VR. Just started playing that one again with my 3DTV and the fix manager.

By the look of Mike @ the Oasis's video, that doesn't look like a problem with RDR2. I'm surprised to learn that it is not a free mod. I wonder how that works without any copyright issue with the game dev?

I also think it's sad that all the shader masters here don't get the recognition they deserve. They did for many years, what Nvidia failed to do by providing great support for their 3D driver they inherited from 3DFX and they themselves only managed to support by breaking older games for newer games. Other than that official support only seemed dedicated to break 3D for unsupported devices. You guys, through the years, gave better customer centric support than they ever did.

The future of PC3D is in jeopardy. VorpX now supports an experimental generic 3D monitor. Only current developer I know of supporting PC3D. Other than that, the future of 3D support may lie in your hands.

I would have to say we learned that the business models for IZ3D and Tridef were a failure? A one time charge and a lifetime of updates for a small market of enthusiasts, apparently couldn't keep development moving forward and the lights on. Nvidia's strategy made even less sense IMO. I would think the only way to ensure and support future games, and make it worth the modders time, is to charge by the game profile or by subscription. 3D is important enough to me to pay at least the same price of the game or a $10 monthly sub. Just my thoughts.

A shame if this Luke Ross used your work and did not credit you for it. I will look for signs that he has. I will always support 3D and VR software. I have Helix Vision, VorpX, Trinnus VR. All have merit IMO. I love 3D and VR equally, on passive 3D with my 3DTV , on my projector with FS 3D, in my Quest 2 and in my HP Reverb, it's all Rock n Roll to me.

+1 Grant S

Man thanks to the people that sent me a copy of the MOD.
Here are my findings:

The RDR2 mod has the same problem as RDR5:
- Alternative Frame Sync with NO frame synchronization. If your framerate drops to like 50-60 and move your head, you will instantly feel the need to .....stop. (Too bad he doesn't have Framesync ^_^).
- The Stereo3D is actually good. I only briefly tested it as I was mostly reverse engineering it. The Rendering resolution is VERY LOW, I think the one of the lowest I've seen in a VR mod (I had to bump the internal resolution in the game settings to 2.5x for it to actually look Ok - like 1080p on a screen).
- There is no support for VR controllers, not even a mapping to controller like I have in Vk3DVision. (I know this is not great for Shooters. I for one can't play Doom or the likes with a controller...) So you are stuck with KB/M or Xbox controller.

Here comes the interesting parts:
- OpenVRAp.dll is identical to mine -> same binary, but this is released by Valve, still I found quite interesting that it's the same ^_^ and the same OLD version...
- He also supports OpenXR (I don't)
- His binary is 66% the size of mine and looking at it closely it matches more with Reshade than mine. It makes sense as he clearly says he is based on Reshade, like me. However unlike him, I removed a lot of things from Reshade (like DX11/12/OGL hooking and stuff).
- He doesn't uses Shader Injection for Stereo! Instead he is hacking the game to find the Projection Matrix and doing stereo from there! (Memory Hack)
- He is also hacking other things proprietary to the game, like camera position, FOV and so on.
- His mod and fix will only work on this game and it's not intended to be GENERAL or usable by other games (Unlike Vk3DVision that AIMS to work with all Vulkan apps - hence the Shader Injection approach)
- One thing that is VERY striking in similarity is that he also seems to be using Vulkan to DirectX11 interoop.... I am not sure WHY! I am forced to do this since only DX11 or DX9 supports the 3DVision monitor (remember?). However for pure VR, Vulkan works just fine and there is no need for the interoop.
Also, the way I implemented the Interoop is based on an Nvidia Paper and I believe I am using some things that are only found on Nvidia drivers -> why Amd GPu's currently don't work.. I wonder did he actually use the exact same approach and paper as me? It is possible, I can't say no as it seems only Nvidia has some docs and papers on this ^_^
I find this similarity very interesting nevertheless ^_^

As a result, I can say that Vk3DVision and RDR2 VR Mode have around 33% in common and that is because both use Reshade and there are some other things like, the same OpenVRApi.dll and the DX11 interoop that are the same ^_^.

At least this sheds some light.
All this poking and reverse engineering at least gave me a few ideas on how to make the VR part of Vk3DVision better ^_^. I have a nice "feature list" there. I don't AIM to change camera positions of hack things like his MOD though But I would like to give an alternative to Cinema VR screen, while maintaining the VISION the game creators made in the FLAT 2D version ^_^

Hope this helped
Cheers!

Cheers mate, very insightful overview.

If you might be interested, I believe there is a live interview happening with him right now on MRTV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vAY0BEYbFA

I just found I still have the GTA 5 VR files and it was Luke Ross's. Looks like the only way to get the RDR2 mod is by $10 a month subscription. If my experience were better with GTA 5, I would consider but his work to date is nowhere near subscription only status IMO. $10 a month is a deal breaker for one game. If I can't get it working in Vorpx or Trinnus , I'll wait it out for that one.

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 2:39 pm Cheers mate, very insightful overview.

If you might be interested, I believe there is a live interview happening with him right now on MRTV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vAY0BEYbFA

I am looking at the feed, no idea who of them Luke is )) (I don't even think he is part of that interview... )
Anywho... I am amazed how much popularity this gets... I can't believe it, simply because it's another game, nothing really special... (sure RDR2...whatever...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTNot9jjEao

"I'm blown away how smoothly it's running" mate this game has alternate eye rendering, at best it doesn't give you a headache, but idk about "smooth", more like "gets the job done"

6

Beardo Benjo

Beardo Benjo
Beardo Benjo
11 hours ago
People said the same about GTA V which also didn't impact me at allllll, I've played countless hours of GTA V in VR & have already started sinking big time into this with no issue, clearly don't have the same issue with alternate eye that everyone else seems to have

So all of YOU OUT THERE, that complained about my OpenGL3DVision wrapper which did this... hmm 6 years ago?! YOU KNOW NOTHING MATES! YOU CLEARLY SEE WRONG!
I guess it will take him TIME to catch-up and actually use "some" Frame Synchronisation as I do in Vk3DVision.....

helifax wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 1:54 pm
- His mod and fix will only work on this game and it's not intended to be GENERAL or usable by other games (Unlike Vk3DVision that AIMS to work with all Vulkan apps - hence the Shader Injection approach)

I thought you might get a kick out of his mention of "rather small projects"


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

LukeRoss00 - gitMemory
[Search domain gitmemory.com] https://www.gitmemory.com/LukeRoss00/
There is a new Vulkan 3D driver, which is compatible with RDR2. It's geometric 3D and the performance could be decent, if any shaderhacker creates a RDR2 profile for the Vulkan 3D driver. But they are not interested in such a big project beause it is a very new driver technology, and they releasing rather small projects to the Nvidia 3D Vision.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I do not think that he gets the fact that you "love" Wolfenstein and Doom

helifax wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 1:54 pmThere is no support for VR controllers, not even a mapping to controller like I have in Vk3DVision. (I know this is not great for Shooters. I for one can't play Doom or the likes with a controller...) So you are stuck with KB/M or Xbox controller.

I saw this in gzdoomvr

"This build exposes OpenVR controller input for definition (you will need to define the controls). One hand (right by default) is tracked for the weapon. I have included two modified weapon packs authored by Fishbiter."
https://github.com/hh79/gzdoomvr

3DNovice wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 4:51 pm

helifax wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 1:54 pm
- His mod and fix will only work on this game and it's not intended to be GENERAL or usable by other games (Unlike Vk3DVision that AIMS to work with all Vulkan apps - hence the Shader Injection approach)

I thought you might get a kick out of his mention of "rather small projects"


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

LukeRoss00 - gitMemory
[Search domain gitmemory.com] https://www.gitmemory.com/LukeRoss00/
There is a new Vulkan 3D driver, which is compatible with RDR2. It's geometric 3D and the performance could be decent, if any shaderhacker creates a RDR2 profile for the Vulkan 3D driver. But they are not interested in such a big project beause it is a very new driver technology, and they releasing rather small projects to the Nvidia 3D Vision.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I do not think that he gets the fact that you "love" Wolfenstein and Doom

I don't really care what he thinks and I am not really interested in starting a fight
Yes, for me getting Detroit, DOOM(s) and Wolfenstein games + RTX was much more important than RDR2.
I did look at it while developing VK3DVision and I know it could work. I mostly used it for testing purposes and fixing wise I don't think I spent more than 30 minutes on it )
I also don't have a FAT Patreon like him and I also have a day-time job Plus, I can't really be non-stop in front of the PC
I hoped by now if enough people show interest and some actually start a fix, I could help them with the fix along the way.
I might look at RDR2 at some point, like I keep on saying but it's not on my radar as the thing to do next

The thing is, he is hacking the game, which means that is not portable to other games. It's like the Surround and Ultra-wide monitor support that I have been adding for years, hack the game engine, in this case the View and Projection matrices and change things there. I am actually amazed it works that well! I kinda expected to have a few broken things here and there, so either he resolved the rendering for them, or disabled them. I did not do a full SBS compare, but at first glance it looks great

I have officially started working on a fix. For now I stereoized basic geometry, fixed some shadows (with a haloing side effect for the moment) and terrain decals (which have depth like snow trails, that's great).
It's probably going to take a long time (I was only at the snowy start of the game, using the photo mode), and of course Helifax will be needed for frame sync at the very least .

Screenshots not worth showing yet.

My main focus is still Days Gone until I finish it and publish its fix on the blog. So at most I'm going to dedicate an hour a day or so until then.

Here we go

masterotaku wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:48 am terrain decals (which have depth like snow trails, that's great).

Yeah snow and mud trails will look incredible in this game

Holy **** yeah! Seems like Christmas is coming really early this year, can't wait!

ALL HAIL!

Wonderfull...3d with the best game of the last year wouahhh...

Oh man :O It's happening. That's why I got the game 2 days ago (best deal on the Epic store btw).

Thanks so much, that's amazing.

@masterotaku - thank you so much for taking your free time to look at this game. It is my dream, and I think not only mine, to play this game in full geo3d. I keep my fingers crossed for the success of this mission. I can assure you, you and Helifax, that you have my financial backing. I don't know much about programming and hacking, so that's the only way I can thank you for your efforts and help create the patch. Of course I know it takes time, I think everyone in this community is patient so we'll wait as long as it takes.

This is so awesome, it would be a dream come true. Thank you Masterotaku (and Helifax, of course) for making this possible!
Take as long as you need, I haven't touched this game since its release years ago on console, just to ensure the first playthrough is in stereovision. And I was willing to wait decades if needed. I'm glad I won't have to, and I am excited beyond words to experience this epic story whenever it's fixed.
GOOD LUCK!

Holy s*%#, you are on a roll! some one likes challenges This was easily one of my favorite games ever, and the most immersive 3rd person game I ever played - 3D would just take that immersion put it in the stratosphere! We will certainly be patient, I hope you find success and it is not too taxing.. you guys are the best

Hm, maybe it's actually worth picking up the new 3080Ti for this. And then downgrade (that's a first ) to 2080Ti.

I almost can't believe what I read here, thank you guys for even considering this epic challenge

Looks like better performance might also be coming soon https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/red-dead-red ... s-support/

Tullebob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:55 am Looks like better performance might also be coming soon https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/red-dead-red ... s-support/

Helifax's wrapper does not support DLSS currently, but who knows, maybe he's working on that next - he did indicate he had interest into looking at it.

Lysander wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:18 am

Tullebob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:55 am Looks like better performance might also be coming soon https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/red-dead-red ... s-support/

Helifax's wrapper does not support DLSS currently, but who knows, maybe he's working on that next - he did indicate he had interest into looking at it.

That is correct, Vk3DVision driver does and does not currently support DLSS
It does, as it doesn't prevent it..
It doesn't as while I didn't look too much into it, it is again shader based
It is interesting to see how many people are actually interested in RDR2 in 3D;)

Of course, Masterotaku started the work and I will help everywhere I can and if needed ^_^ I did see a quick glimpse yesterday and it will indeed look spectacular

Well, it is visually stunning, so automatically of great interest for 3d. Plus, being a great game also helps

Amazing this day has come Thank You helifax & masterotaku for looking in to this game fix.

This Year for 3d vision is one of the best if not the best. First stunning Vk3DVision, HelixVision is getting Superdepth3D support for 3d vision monitors, then lots of fixes for new & not so new games & now this one

Skawen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:28 am Amazing this day has come Thank You helifax & masterotaku for looking in to this game fix.

This Year for 3d vision is one of the best if not the best. First stunning Vk3DVision, HelixVision is getting Superdepth3D support for 3d vision monitors, then lots of fixes for new & not so new games & now this one

yes but its not the best year for graphic card

any update on if this is coming to 3DV soon?

Perhaps someday, especially since last week Rockstar has said farewell to the game.
https://www.polygon.com/23333281/red-de ... e-series-x

aofelix wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:29 am any update on if this is coming to 3DV soon?

I fixed a few things already, but I became stuck when I noticed that the game needs Vk3DVision to handle tessellation shaders. Without that, the ground is 2D and can't be fixed. Pretty big deal, considering that it affects how I see other effects that touch the ground.

The fix is on hold until Helifax has time to add that type of shaders to the list of shaders that Vk3DVision can modify. No hurries for him from me, because I'm not a Rockstar fan anyway. I was in this for the challenge mostly.

We'll wait. We know you're out there Helifax, you can't hide from this, so we'll just sit and wait

helifax wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 1:54 pm Man thanks to the people that sent me a copy of the MOD.
Here are my findings:

The RDR2 mod has the same problem as RDR5:
- Alternative Frame Sync with NO frame synchronization. If your framerate drops to like 50-60 and move your head, you will instantly feel the need to .....stop. (Too bad he doesn't have Framesync ^_^)…

I tried Luke Ross’s VR fix for Cyberpunk 2077 this week. I was VERY disappointed with the fix’s dynamic performance, beyond just head movement. Any movement creates a strange stuttering effect that breaks game immersion, but stabilizes to have good (but low resolution) 3D. I do not plan to use the mod.

Lysander wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:21 pm We'll wait. We know you're out there Helifax, you can't hide from this, so we'll just sit and wait

We can definitely wait, I just hope it is somewhere on his to-do list...even if its at the bottom

Just bought Ultimate Editon on sale, before searching if it was playable in 3D. I guess great graphics will compensate a bit but can't stop think how much better it would have been if all the industry have kept supporting 3D.

P.S. Is there a forum moderator to move this to "Nvidia 3D Vision Fixes, Solutions and Troubleshooting" where it belongs?