Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift)

Post by **OmniAtlas** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:47 am

Flight Simulator X support Please!

Post by **Owen** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:59 am

I assume you are using heuristics to determine which buffers to render in stereo (non-square, same as screen resolution, etc). Will we be able to configure these in per-game profiles like with iz3d?

An option for centering on the left or right eye would also be great, so that in an FPS you can have your dominant eye lined up with the crosshair instead of aiming with your nose, again like iz3d.

Post by **jaybug** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:22 am

Cyber, have you done any comparisons of performance?

Like what FPS you get running a game normally in 2D, versus using your driver in 3D

Post by **troffmo5** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:14 am

Have the builders of a DIY Oculus access to the closed beta of your drivers?
Are parameters like eye separation and distortion configurable?
I'm looking forward to test it

Post by **marbas** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:59 am

@Cyber

Thanks for the reply. In my question I didn't mean to use the Rift HMD for the actual developing, but to add Rift support to dx9 exe files compiled in those RAD tools using your driver.

What about latency? Can we expect an extra layer of delay adding Rift support through your driver, rather than native support using the Oculus SDK?

Post by **kalabalik** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:29 am

Aerofly FS as I said in the other thread would be frikkin awesome as its a easy-to-fly simulator with great feel and fantastic visuals!

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbs0myDheaM[/youtube-hd]

Post by **therage79** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:13 am

@mayaman: I initially figured independent head and gun movement would be possible, but it seems harder than what I thought. Something I could probably do is have the mouse move both the gun and the view simultaneously (as normal) but have the head-tracker alter the view in addition to this. This is sort of what I am doing with the roll support. However it runs into problems with whole areas of the screen getting clipped (or culled) so objects will disappear, you will see through walls and things like that. Maybe there is a way around this, I don't know. But its not an easy thing.

I have also been thinking about this, and in general about how the rift could provide a fully immersive full body experience. Ideally independent view (rift) and aim (arm/gun motion tracking) would be sweet...are you saying this is difficult just initially (via your drivers), or do you think this will also be difficult in the future via the rift SDK?

I also like the sound of your option (above), potentially also have you thought about separating the standard aim and the zoomed in/cross hairs/iron sights aim to the rift and the controller/arm/gun motion tracking, respectively...I think this could also work.

Anyway..just my random thoughts...great forum, exciting times!

PS Are any forum members in the UK planning on getting the dev kit in Dec and planning a 'show and tell'? I REALLY want a go!

Paul

Post by **zino** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:35 am

Will throw money on this just for the Mirrors Edge support.

Post by **Additives** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:27 am

zino wrote:Will throw money on this just for the Mirrors Edge support.

Ditto for a bunch of the other games too. Any one of a few of them would be enough for me to part with $20, any 3 and you have my $50

Post by **MrGreen** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:27 pm

zino wrote:Will throw money on this just for the Mirrors Edge support.

I would pay insane money for a Mirrors Edge with proper Rift support. I'm afraid this will be unbearable with the forced movements of the view.

Post by **Dycus** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:04 pm

If you actually do parkour, with rolls and stuff, you learn to close your eyes while you roll. I'd imagine you'd naturally want to close your eyes when doing rolls, so it wouldn't be that bad.

Post by **MrGreen** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:13 pm

Dycus wrote:If you actually do parkour, with rolls and stuff, you learn to close your eyes while you roll. I'd imagine you'd naturally want to close your eyes when doing rolls, so it wouldn't be that bad.

Sounds good! You go first!

Post by **Dycus** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:40 pm

Dude, you have no idea how badly I want Mirror's Edge on a Rift. That's one of my favorite games. Needs to be longer, though, and the combat needs to be improved. Otherwise it's awesome!

Post by **rhinosix** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:29 pm

Nice work cybereality! I can't wait to try Dear Esther.

Post by **jayoh** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:55 pm

kalabalik wrote:Aerofly FS as I said in the other thread would be frikkin awesome as its a easy-to-fly simulator with great feel and fantastic visuals!

i've not seen that before, looks incredible.

Post by **plo009** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:55 pm

kalabalik wrote:Aerofly FS as I said in the other thread would be frikkin awesome as its a easy-to-fly simulator with great feel and fantastic visuals!

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbs0myDheaM[/youtube-hd]

Off topic question, but does anyone know where the music is from?

Post by **zino** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:06 pm

Dycus wrote:Dude, you have no idea how badly I want Mirror's Edge on a Rift. That's one of my favorite games. Needs to be longer, though, and the combat needs to be improved. Otherwise it's awesome!

Above all, avoiding gunplay should be made easier.

Post by **mwarren** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:30 pm

plo009 wrote:
kalabalik wrote:Aerofly FS as I said in the other thread would be frikkin awesome as its a easy-to-fly simulator with great feel and fantastic visuals!
Off topic question, but does anyone know where the music is from?

The full version of the video says the music is "Silent Glance Of Passion" by Largo.

Post by **mwarren** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:57 pm

cybereality wrote:Thanks for the kind words guys, really appreciate it.
...
@Parity: Yes, it is possible to change the FOV on games. Right now this is working on L4D and a couple others, will have to port this to the rest of the supported titles soon.

Is it also possible to render two FOVs simultaneously (or perhaps switch between FOVs quickly enough to get interleaved wide/narrow frames)? If so, the Vireio driver might use the narrow, high detail FOV for the central pixels and the lower detail, wide FOV for the outer pixels.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:30 pm

@Owen: There are not heuristics currently, I have custom code for each engine (and some specific code per game). The profiles are very basic, but you can switch the mode by editing XML so there is some options for users. I already have an offset control for the camera, so you can adjust it left or right (in both eyes).

@jaybug: Performance is honestly nothing special. Basically it cuts frame-rates by 50%. But at 720P on lighter games like L4D its totally fine.

@troffmo5: I plan to have a closed beta in November, but I have a number of things I have to fix before I start sharing the app. The eye separation is adjustable with hot-keys. Distortion is fixed for now, but it supposedly looks good on the Rift.

@marbas: Well its possible the engine could work OK with one of the existing implementations on my driver, but chances are I would have to write some specific code to target one engine or the other. In terms of latency, I don't imagine it being much different than using the Oculus SDK, at least in terms of the head-tracking itself. However since I have not seen the SDK, or even know what the final tracker is even I can't say for sure.

@mwarren: Something like that may be possible, but I feel the performance cost would be too much. Potentially rendering 4 times, and then trying to stitch the images together, I just doubt that would work out.

Post by **jaybug** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:57 am

@jaybug: Performance is honestly nothing special. Basically it cuts frame-rates by 50%. But at 720P on lighter games like L4D its totally fine.

Thanks. I'm asking cause I'm planning on building a cheap PC, and need to plan for being able to get a good rift framerate -.-

Post by **marbas** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:38 am

cybereality wrote:@marbas: Well its possible the engine could work OK with one of the existing implementations on my driver, but chances are I would have to write some specific code to target one engine or the other. In terms of latency, I don't imagine it being much different than using the Oculus SDK, at least in terms of the head-tracking itself. However since I have not seen the SDK, or even know what the final tracker is even I can't say for sure.

Some of those RAD tools have large community of users. It might be worthwhile looking into. If I send you simple compiled example files (including source), would you be interested in trying to add support?

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:15 pm

marbas wrote: If I send you simple compiled example files (including source), would you be interested in trying to add support?

Yes, I'm certainly open to adding support. However I can't guarantee anything, at least not for the December launch.

Post by **C3DPO** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:51 am

If Borderlands 2 works with this I'll never ask for anything again.

Post by **mahler** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:44 pm

Is there anything we can do to help you out and get the best quality product possible? You said that you would have a beta with some specific people.
Is there certain hardware or are there certain games on certain operating systems you want this to be tested with?

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:47 pm

I am planning for a closed beta in November, probably only need 5 or 10 people to participate. Currently I have been testing with Nvidia on Windows 7 64-bit, and I also have an AMD machine I can use. So I will be looking for a mix of systems AMD/Nvidia and Windows 7/Vista/XP 32-bit and 64-bit. I will make a post about this when I can closer to launching.

Post by **TheLostBrain** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:34 am

Hey Cyber! Was going through your 'Work-Log' thread over in the DIY forum...Really nice work man - you've come a long way!

Was hoping to make an 'official' request for your initial release!

If you haven't already PLEASE (as in please, please, please) include support for Toe-In / Out stereo rendering!
http://paulbourke.net/exhibition/vpac/theory.html

This would allow for proper support of convergent / divergent Partial Overlap configurations!

It actually looks like you've already commented positively on this subject (http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 450#p82725) but I was hoping that support for this wouldn't 'go away' in favor of the Off-Axis frustum approach at some point.

If you'd like someone to test out this particular feature just let me know.

Thanks!

BTW: "Just to be clear: this is a commercial product. I am still investigating pricing options, but for sure it will be under $50."
Just tell me where to send payment to.

Post by **Fredz** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:06 pm

TheLostBrain wrote:If you haven't already PLEASE (as in please, please, please) include support for Toe-In / Out stereo rendering!
http://paulbourke.net/exhibition/vpac/theory.html
This would allow for proper support of convergent / divergent Partial Overlap configurations!

I fail to see why toe-in would be better for this, care to explain ?

Post by **neverman** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:38 pm

This is...just beautiful!

from China with love man!

Post by **Likay** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:13 pm

Nice work Cyber!
Don't forget us other alternate stereosolution guys if you get the time for it. I know that the Rift, vr-device functionality and compability with more games are the mains in your own priorities this project. But hopefully one day your driver could have room for this.
Cheers!

Post by **TheHolyChicken** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:28 am

Hello! My very first post here - have been using Nvidia3D for a good while, and just found this forum after attempting to hunt down as much information on the Oculus Rift as humanly possible.

My request is: I want to be able to choose a 'primary' eye, for the purposes of aiming. So many games now use scopes, or ironsights, and with Nvidia3D vision it is impossible to use them because the sights are lined up as if I was looking out the middle of my nose! I want one of my eyes to be perfectly lined up with the gun sights so that I can actually aim (and I would close the other one just like you would IRL). If you made that possible I would be a happy happy gamer!

Post by **Leahy** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:29 pm

I as well am wondering if this could possibly be applied to a 2 screen HMD and if there would be a way to map a key command to a 2D mode to switch for possible 3D difficult games or particularly certain scenes in games

Post by **mm0zct** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:05 pm

In response to/to re-iterate TheHolyChicken's comment other stereo middleware has an "X eye dominant" feature, which places that eye on the central axis where the game would expect the screen to be aligned to, and orientates the other eye around it. I think this might be a little disorientating when moving as rotation will not be around the centre of the user's head (less of an issue when it's on a screen and not and HMD). We would probably need an "ironsights" mode which turns this on when looking along the gun sights however.

In response to therage79: if you are near Edinburgh I'll probably have it along to a couple of LANs at the local University once mine arrives, but I expect you are probably a bit far away.

Post by **Owen** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:14 pm

Rotation will already be disorienting, because pretty much all first person games today use a floating eyeball perspective. In order to be accurate it should be rotating along an axis behind the viewpoint, so centering won't be accurate either.

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:01 pm

@Likay: The driver supports more than just the Rift, but obviously the Rift is my focus right now. In coming months I will continue to update the driver, and will look into more display support and other features.

@TheHolyChicken: Yes, you can do that with the driver. Its possible to adjust the camera left or right (in both eyes) and you can use this to line up the gun in one eye or the other.

Post by **Additives** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:20 pm

Owen wrote:Rotation will already be disorienting, because pretty much all first person games today use a floating eyeball perspective. In order to be accurate it should be rotating along an axis behind the viewpoint, so centering won't be accurate either.

I think you are referring to a head-and-neck model for view movement. Most of the people here are hoping this will be a default implementation of the SDK, from what I can tell.

Post by **Owen** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:28 am

Indeed, but that won't be the case for existing games enabled using this driver.

Post by **therage79** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:37 am

mm0zct wrote:In response to therage79: if you are near Edinburgh I'll probably have it along to a couple of LANs at the local University once mine arrives, but I expect you are probably a bit far away.

Thanks mate, alas I am in the sunny midlands (though I do have friends in Burntisland), so yeah it would be a bit of a trek, appreciate the offer though.

Im still debating just getting one, as much for the open source, virtual chat room, cinema, unknown innovative stuff as much as the gaming!

Just think its going to be long wait for the consumer version if not! Hopefully I'll find someone more local first though...Leicester, UK anyone?

Post by **urban** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:45 am

C3DPO wrote:If Borderlands 2 works with this I'll never ask for anything again.

Loving borderlands 2 myself atm as well, support for this would be ace, I think the graphics will suit the resolution of the rift very well too

Post by **crespo80** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:44 pm

Great work cybereality!
Regarding the commercial aspect, since this is an always work-in-progress project that needs continous funding, would't it be better to apply a per-game cost?
Because, maybe I have to pay 50$ for your driver but only one of my games is supported, so that's not a bargain for me.
But I'd surely pay 5$ more to have a single game (that I purchased for 40/50& already) supported properly on the rift, and so on for every of my games.