"Off The Screen" 3D Gaming For $9.95?

[cybereality]

I just got mine and they are actually pretty nifty. It so helpful to finally have some manual controls for a bit more options. Also, the LCDs are nice quality, better than the ELSAs for sure. Honestly I barely noticed any ghosting at all. Once I started looking for it (on high contrast scenes, like the edge of a building against the sky) I could see it, but not much. Maybe like 5% or less ghosting in like worst case. With a moderate separation value I did not notice really much ghosting at all. In contrast, the ELSA Revalators did display some ghosting on the same CRT @ 85Hz. Like on the Nvidia testing application, with the AE2000 I could clearly see the logo popping out of the screen and I could almost touch it. With ELSAs it would always ghost too much when it comes out of the screen. The LCDs are also bigger and brighter, so the colors are better.

Now for the bad. These glasses are the most uncomfortable contraptions I've ever had the displeasure of wearing. I don't know what they were thinking, the design is far out but they're are not comfortable at all. Especially trying to wear prescription glasses with these, very difficult and adds to the discomfort. The cord also comes off the back and has the in-line remote, which drag the glasses down. The cord is also short and its some proprietary crap (so I don't think the dongle will work with other glasses). You have to be right next to the computer to use it. I'm used to the wireless glasses, this is annoying. The flicker was also annoying, but that goes for any shutterglasses at 85Hz.

@LukePC1: The manual interlace mode may prove promising. You can switch the stuff on/off with the in-line controller no driver involved. It has 3 buttons, one for the mode, another switch the eyes, and an on-off switch. The mode cycles between pass-through, horizontal interlace, sync-doubled. The glasses will automatically sync with the video, but you might have to reverse the eyes every time you launch an application. The great part is that you can view 3d movies without using any drivers. I tested a few videos in the Stereoscopic Player just with the horizontal interlace mode, it worked fine. Interlaced images would probably work fine as well. So if there is more support for interlaced format (from iz3d, for example) then these glasses could definitely be used. And theoretically, yes, they should work with the new Nvidia driver on Zalman mode provided that could be enabled somehow.

Also, they combined the shipping when I ordered (in the US though). I got 2 units and the shipping was only $13 (extra $3). So the whole thing cost me $33 shipped for 2 units.

[LukePC1]

@ Tril:
I read about that ober under thing in the other tread... it sounds interesting, but I still don't get every detail of it.
If I output this special over under format (e.g. with Le Cauchemar) how is it presented? Does the dongle change the resolution and displays it in full screen with twice the speed?

At first I tought it might do, would display it without any modification --> first upper half on the upper half of the screen and then lower half on the lower part. This would be realy bad, so I don't think it will work like this...

I'd like to know exactly

@ cyber:
good to hear that interlace runs and it's only necessary to hit one button to get interlacing to run. Sounds easy.
Sowhere (here?) I read they are uncomfortable, but then I read, they'd be comfortable, so it's up to the user to decide

33$ for 2 shipped? Lucky you live in the US... maybe I can find something similar in the EU

[Tril]

In over/under mode, the picture on the top and the bottom are shown on screen one after the other at twice the frequency from the video card. They are stretched vertically to take the full height of the screen by adding black lines like in interlaced mode.

Basically, you get the same result as interlaced but the refresh rate is doubled.

The downside are :

• Some people (me included) don't like interlaced much. You can clearly see the black lines. It's more of a problem when you need to read text. Maybe you can get used to it.
• I don't know any recent drivers that support the over/under mode of these glasses. The one included with the glasses is very old (supports DirectX7, OpenGL and Glide). If you're too young to know about it, Glide was something used by the Voodoo line of cards by 3Dfx (before they were bought by NVIDIA)

[LukePC1]

Ok thanks for the info...

It does not matter, that there are not many additional drivers supporting it. It's just good to know, what is supported and how it could be used... Either with other drivers (ED interlaced or Iz3D interlaced) or how to program your own stuff.
I'm shure interlaced is not the best thing for a 3D display, but pageflipping seems to be harder to sync properly
And over/under should be relatively easy to implement in self programmed stuff or maybe even in the browser for viewing 3D screenshots? Do you know, if this could work?

I'm sort of the budget gamer among the S-3D players. And old Revelator glasses are running out of drivers and don't have a chance to run with modern drivers because of sync. They are nearly always off, except old school S-3D driver is running... That limits the usability considerably...

[distantreader]

Thanks all for the info on this deal. I bought the glasses setup but when it arrived I realized it requires a PS/2 port for power. My system does NOT have a PS2 connector, I sent an email to xforce3d.com and got a reply saying there is no USB adapter that would work. How do you guys manage?

My system is a DELL XPS410, on the motherboard there is a header for PS/2 and serial connector but I can't seem to find a part for it on DELL website. I imagine even if they have, it probably costs much more than the price of the glasses itself so I'd rather buy an adapter. My question is: Is anyone here using a USB to PS/2 adapter to power the Another Eye 2K, if so could you kindly provide the part number or name ?

Many thanks,

[cybereality]

Thanks all for the info on this deal. I bought the glasses setup but when it arrived I realized it requires a PS/2 port for power. My system does NOT have a PS2 connector, I sent an email to xforce3d.com and got a reply saying there is no USB adapter that would work. How do you guys manage?

Well, my computer has the PS/2 connections, so it wasn't an issue. However why wouldn't an adapter work? I would think something like this could help:
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductP ... _Id=156482

Again, I have no clue if that will actually work of not, but I can't imagine the glasses need that much power. But I only have PS/2 -> USB adapters, not the other way around, so I can't test this.

@LukePC1, I'm not sure about the over/under stuff but when I enabled the sync-double mode neither of my screens liked it. The CRT would get weird like when you try unsupported refresh rates. When I tried it on a LCD, it got no signal on that mode (screen just went black). I don't know what this means yet, but at least its another mode to tinker with. You don't need over/under for web stuff. You could post screenshots in interlaced format and that would work on a web-browser. Other advantage over paged-flipped is that windowed content still works (ie the stereoscopic player at half size windowed still in 3d). So interlaced 3d video on the web should also be possible.

[crim3]

The CRT would get weird like when you try unsupported refresh rates.

You have to set the refresh for stereo mode to 50-60 Hz because it becomes 100-120 when sync double mode is selected.

[LukePC1]

The CRT would get weird like when you try unsupported refresh rates.

You have to set the refresh for stereo mode to 50-60 Hz because it becomes 100-120 when sync double mode is selected.

Sounds easy, but at second glance/thought it makes me wonder:

Lets say my CRT supports 1280x1024 @ max 100hz.
Then it would only run at 1280x512 max resolution @ 100hz?

At first I thought: just increase resolution for interlaced, but if that is not possible the solution isn't as good as I thought at first...
Nevertheleess it's cheap

Although if I add Monitor+Glasses+IZ3D interlaced driver I could by a VR920 or even a Iz3D screen for that money...

[cybereality]

Although if I add Monitor+Glasses+IZ3D interlaced driver I could by a VR920 or even a Iz3D screen for that money...

I think the most depressing thing is that these $10 glasses with an old CRT monitor I bought years ago used for $50 might just give the best S3D picture I've seen outside the IMAX.

[Tril]

Lets say my CRT supports 1280x1024 @ max 100hz.
Then it would only run at 1280x512 max resolution @ 100hz?

At first I thought: just increase resolution for interlaced, but if that is not possible the solution isn't as good as I thought at first...
Nevertheleess it's cheap

I just tried to add a custom resolution of 1280x2048 @ 60 Hz to windows and it works. When I activate over/under, the vertical resolution is halved by about half and the refresh rate is doubled so I get 1280x1024 @ 120 Hz for each eye. Half of the 1024 horizontal lines are black because it's scaled by adding black lines.

This is using VGA because the dongle works with VGA.


If you wanted to use interlaced but the black lines bothered you and you have a CRT monitor, it could theorically be possible to use a resolution with a doubled vertical resolution like 1280x2048 to make the black lines less visible. However, I think this would have to be built-in in a stereo driver with special support for that. The driver would have to render at 1280x1024 for each eye and combine the two eyes to output 1280x2048. If you just tried to use a stereo driver that just tried to render to 1280x2048, you would get a vertically squeezed view because it's not a 4:3 format and it's displayed on a 4:3 monitor.

You would probably have to reduce the resolution. For example, my monitor supports 1280x2048 @ 60 Hz, but not 1280x2048 @ 75 Hz.

[cybereality]

You have to set the refresh for stereo mode to 50-60 Hz because it becomes 100-120 when sync double mode is selected.

Thanks, that was it. So I got the sync-double mode to work for one video in the Stereoscopic player. Had to set my refresh rate to 60Hz (but 70Hz also worked, 85Hz didn't). The problem was with the aspect ratio in the SP. For some reason it would not auto-scale the aspect ratio correctly, and it would ruin the stereo effect. For example, if the ratio was wrong you will get black letterboxing. This is a problem because the left eye will see a black bar only on the top, while the right eye sees only the black bar on the bottom (and of course the images are off). I had to resize the window perfectly before I went fullscreen. But then it worked. Compared to page-flipping the flicker was almost non-existent, I'd assume at 120Hz, but the depth was not good. Maybe this was due to a bad configuration, I'm not sure yet. The interlacing seemed less noticeable than on regular horizontal interweaved mode, though. I think with proper driver support it could be a good solution.

[LukePC1]

Lets say my CRT supports 1280x1024 @ max 100hz.
Then it would only run at 1280x512 max resolution @ 100hz?

At first I thought: just increase resolution for interlaced, but if that is not possible the solution isn't as good as I thought at first...
Nevertheleess it's cheap

I just tried to add a custom resolution of 1280x2048 @ 60 Hz to windows and it works. When I activate over/under, the vertical resolution is halved by about half and the refresh rate is doubled so I get 1280x1024 @ 120 Hz for each eye. Half of the 1024 horizontal lines are black because it's scaled by adding black lines.

This is using VGA because the dongle works with VGA.


If you wanted to use interlaced but the black lines bothered you and you have a CRT monitor, it could theorically be possible to use a resolution with a doubled vertical resolution like 1280x2048 to make the black lines less visible. However, I think this would have to be built-in in a stereo driver with special support for that. The driver would have to render at 1280x1024 for each eye and combine the two eyes to output 1280x2048. If you just tried to use a stereo driver that just tried to render to 1280x2048, you would get a vertically squeezed view because it's not a 4:3 format and it's displayed on a 4:3 monitor.

You would probably have to reduce the resolution. For example, my monitor supports 1280x2048 @ 60 Hz, but not 1280x2048 @ 75 Hz.

Are you saying your monitor supports these 1280x2048 @ 60hz output from the pc - so it's 1280x1024 @ 120hz on the monitor?
Ideal would be, if the dongle doubles the sync AND edits the picture to a 2 normal pictures pageflipped

Or are you confirming my thoughts, my doubts, that the black lines are 'displayed', too? If they are 'displayed' on the monitor it needs horizontal span capacity, which is not enough to have 2000 lines at a fast refresh rate.
In that case the CRT with the highest frequencies and lowest glowing would be needed to get a OK resolution...

@ driver: only Opensource and IZ3D driver come to my mind. So it might be even possible, but if no screen can run it it's no use.

[cybereality]

Are you saying your monitor supports these 1280x2048 @ 60hz output from the pc - so it's 1280x1024 @ 120hz on the monitor?
Ideal would be, if the dongle doubles the sync AND edits the picture to a 2 normal pictures pageflipped

I just did a quick test on my NEC MultiSync FE950+ (max 85Hz refresh). I set resolution to 640x960 @ 60Hz. Opened a 640x480 S3D video in SP and turned the sync-doubling on. Amazingly it actually worked. Glasses were syncing at 120Hz and evidently so was my monitor (even though I've never got it to go over 85Hz any other way). The interlacing was still there, but barely noticeable. It was not as clean as a real page-flipped image, but clearly better than standard horizontal interweave @ native resolution. It was also running at 120Hz so the flicker was almost nothing. So the quality is somewhere between page-flip and interlaced. However it practically eliminates the flicker which is the point.

[LukePC1]

Maybe I have some bad news for you:
Many CRT's have higher frequencies in lower resolution...

I can get 1024@ 100hz, 800x600 @ 120hz but higher resolution than 1024 only at 85hz...

Please try out to run pageflipping in the Resolution you mentioned - or in 640x480 @ 100 or 120hz.
I think this should work, too. The reason is, that the hz are limited by vertical and horizontal frequency. At a low resolution you can display more pictures in one second...

[Tril]

I bought two projector last year. They were Optoma EP 739. One of them broke down just after the end of the warranty. I've been using the one left on the Xbox 360 since then. I tried to use it last year with pageflipping on the original NVIDIA drivers that supported pageflipping with my eDimensional glasses. This projector supported pageflipping at 85 Hz but it showed different colors in both eyes and it gave some slight flicker. Because of the color problem, I installed it on the Xbox 360 since then. I bought a new projector recently and I installed it on the Xbox 360 so I now had the old projector free again.

I tried pageflipping again using sView for looking at stereo screenshots and this time I used these new glasses. When the glasses are rotated straight in front of the eyes, I see zero ghosting. The colors are also perfectly the same (if they are different, I don't see it). There is almost no flicker if I shut down the light. I also tried interlaced. It works but the black lines are visible. The only problem I've noticed is that if the glasses are not perfectly rotated flat in front of your eyes, you see ghosting because the glasses only work well in the center.

The ghosting is less on the projector than on my CRT monitor so it really shows that the main contributor to ghosting is the CRT monitor and not the glasses.

I don't know why the color differences between the eyes changed. Maybe the problem existed only on one of the two projectors and I tried only one of them (can't remember). It could be the video card. I changed video card from a GeForce 7900 GT to a GeForce 8600 GT (bad upgrade, both cards are about equal so it's not really an upgrade). Or something else.

Unfortunately, I don't have a pageflipping (that would be the best) or an interlaced driver for games. I could use the one from eDimensional but it has not been updated recently and I have no idea how well it works. I would prefer to use the one from iZ3D.

I've got an idea I would like to try. I don't know if it will work. I don't like interlaced because I find it annoying and not pretty to see black lines. The projector can receive larger and smaller resolutions than it's native one. Maybe I could feed it a smaller or bigger one and the scaling will diminish the visibility of the black lines. I'm going to try that right now.

EDIT : I looked for the color difference this time and I saw it. The colors are not perfectly the same in both eyes but it's close enough to not be noticed. The brain probably adjusts if you look long enough at pictures having slightly different colors. I also tested interlaced by feeding the projector a higher resolution. At some resolutions, it does not work well, the scaling produces interference patterns and other it works a bit. At a resolution where it worked, it did lower the visibility of the black lines but it did not eliminate it. It also reduces brightness. The best picture is really achieved with pageflipping and the difference is significant. I hope iZ3D will achieve their intended goal of making a pageflipping driver. For this projector, I would need one that works at 85 Hz.

EDIT2 : I just watched Spy Kids 3-D Game Over for the first time (pretty bad movie by the way) and the difference in colors and the slight flicker were tiring but there was really zero ghosting. It's good enough for quick fun but it's not good enough to be used longer. I'll probably wait for the end of the year for new products to come out. I'm hoping something good will come out at a reasonable price.

[Silversurfer]

Thank you all for your contributions, the more people contribute the more we all learn, especially if you include your hardware and software drivers in your signature (saves us having to read though every single thread to get the same information).

@ Tril - here's hoping that having the LCD lenses correctly aligned to my prescription glasses to see if I get less ghosting helps.

@ Tril / everyone - "I just watched Spy Kids 3-D Game Over...." can I enquire what OS (XP or Vista) and what software you /everyone use for S3-D video playback? As the software that comes with these glasses is out of date and we are recommended not to use it by the manufacturer I must admit I haven't explored video playback until now.

Cheers

[Tril]

I used Stereoscopic Player with the software pageflipping mode. I had to swap the eyes once in a while when it lost sync. I'm on Vista 64.

That DVD is encoded in interlaced format. The format on that DVD is called hqfs for High Quality Field Sequential.

DVD material is too low resolution for truly enjoyable S3D. At least that"s how it felt with that movie. It's full of jaggies and it's blurry on a 21" monitor. The movie lacks antialiasing. I stopped buying movies on DVD since HD DVD and Blu-ray came out. I'm now waiting for Blu-ray S3D movies to come out.

[Silversurfer]

I used Stereoscopic Player with the software pageflipping mode. I had to swap the eyes once in a while when it lost sync. I'm on Vista 64.

That DVD is encoded in interlaced format. The format on that DVD is called hqfs for High Quality Field Sequential.

DVD material is too low resolution for truly enjoyable S3D. At least that"s how it felt with that movie. It's full of jaggies and it's blurry on a 21" monitor. The movie lacks antialiasing. I stopped buying movies on DVD since HD DVD and Blu-ray came out. I'm now waiting for Blu-ray S3D movies to come out.

Thank you very much, I'm downloading it even as we speak. I happen to own this movie and as in the case of PC games I have always been reluctant to watch it until I had a good stereo 3-D solution. But now I think what I will do is watch it with your solution then use this as the basis for encouraging myself to invest in future improvements in hardware.

Cheers.

[Seamus]

Got my xforce glasses some days ago.
This was real plug and play. Turn on driver, glasses ... thats it
No lineblanking like the edims. Real pageflip and the only thing you need are nvidia drivers + glasses.
I use 173.68 + 162.50 and nearly every new Game in S3D. (7900gtx, CRT@100Hz)

Everyone who did not get the Edimensional to work pageflipped(like me), buy this glasses as long they are available.
OK: some ghosting, but they are pageflipping and no blurry image quality.

Im really happy now, thats what i wanted.

[Silversurfer]

Got my xforce glasses some days ago.
This was real plug and play. Turn on driver, glasses ... thats it
No lineblanking like the edims. Real pageflip and the only thing you need are nvidia drivers + glasses.
I use 173.68 + 162.50 and nearly every new Game in S3D. (7900gtx, CRT@100Hz)

Everyone who did not get the Edimensional to work pageflipped(like me), buy this glasses as long they are available.
OK: some ghosting, but they are pageflipping and no blurry image quality.

Im really happy now, thats what i wanted.

Nice to get an informed opinion, thank you. Thanks are also posting your driver versions are so many other people neglect to put this information in their comments and it's so important for all of us including me as a new member.

Just one question I was under the opinion that you should use the same driver version for bold graphic and stereo drivers. Can you tell me your experiences with and without using the same driver versions numbers? the reason I ask is that I'm getting a lot of blue screens with older games (like homeworld2 back in the day with) driver version 173.68+ 173.68 and so that's why I ask. Any help appreciated
Cheers

[crim3]

I went to the xforce3d web to see if they are still available and, yes, they are still available. But THEY DON'T CHARGE FOR SHIPPING! Bare 9.95$ including shipping to Spain (8€ right now). I don't understand very well how is it possible, but I ordered another one just 'cos is cheap. That's consumerism culture.

[Silversurfer]

I went to the xforce3d web to see if they are still available and, yes, they are still available. But THEY DON'T CHARGE FOR SHIPPING! Bare 9.95$ including shipping to Spain (8€ right now). I don't understand very well how is it possible, but I ordered another one just 'cos is cheap. That's consumerism culture.

great news I am going to order another two , Cheers

[DelTorres]

I tried to order them: "We no longer carry this product. "
Was the response from paypal when the gave back my money 30min later...

[crim3]

same here..... :'(
It was too good to be true. Sorry for the false news.

[Shaq]

Wow..looks like i got one of the last pair last week.

[icesterftl]

http://www.xforce3d.com/

I'm lost for words, can they be so desperate or is this worth a punt?

Yes, they are.
The problem is that so called High Definition TV's or Monitors are not capable of flipping every
pixel at 25 or 30 Hz which creates ghosting so Line or Frame Sequential Stereo are not compatible.
Also they use a trick called "smart blaring" meaning sharp edges and bleary
gradients feather distorting stereo information.

Mathew Orman

[Jow]

Hello, I'm new in this amazing forums and in the S3D world

I test the glasses with a Geforce4 MX and a CRT LG 19" 915FT + monitor that supports 1024x768@120Hz, but it doesn't works.
I use the 91.31 Forceware an 3D estero drivers. When I launch the nvidia test aplication the image appears correctly after pushing Ctrl+T, but the glasses doesnt't start flickering. The right eye is permanently shutted and the left no. I tried diferent resolutions and refresh without luck.

I have other system with a geforce 8800GTX card and I have the same result, the glasses dont't flickering. I can see artifacts, but there is other problem.

Please, tell me if I'm doing something wrong.


(sorry for my poor english)

Thanks

[anotherFrench]

just went to xforce3d.com, the glasses are still anouced at 9.95$ but the shipping at 1000.00$

[Shaq]

lol...I see that too. I think I would rather pick them up in person than pay $1000.

[Jow]

Hello, I'm new in this amazing forums and in the S3D world

I test the glasses with a Geforce4 MX and a CRT LG 19" 915FT + monitor that supports 1024x768@120Hz, but it doesn't works.
I use the 91.31 Forceware an 3D estero drivers. When I launch the nvidia test aplication the image appears correctly after pushing Ctrl+T, but the glasses doesnt't start flickering. The right eye is permanently shutted and the left no. I tried diferent resolutions and refresh without luck.

I have other system with a geforce 8800GTX card and I have the same result, the glasses dont't flickering. I can see artifacts, but there is other problem.

Please, tell me if I'm doing something wrong.


(sorry for my poor english)

Thanks

The glasses are now working!

The problem was in the solders of de minijack conector of the glasses.

[LCountach]

To all those who still wanted these glasses. Good News! The sight is not dead and the stock has not run out. I called the old customer service number and they gave me the email address of the new owner. XForce 3D has been sold to Ultimate 3D Heaven. The XForce 3D sight is not functional yet but if you go to http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; scroll to the bottom there will be a link "SEND EMAIL". Carl set up a "PayPal Invoice" for me and my glasses should soon be in the mail.

Hope this helps those who still wanted these glasses.

[johnoliver]

so is it still $9.95 with the new owner?

[LCountach]

so is it still $9.95 with the new owner?

Yes it is still $9.95. I should receive my package in a few days. I don't know if USPS ships on weekends though. I may not see it until Monday but hopefully sooner. Carl did seem friendly and knowledgeable enough to convince me to order. I will try to remember to post back here whether or not this is legit.

Oh yea, one last thing. He also got a quantity of these glasses http://www.stereo3d.com/anotheris.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; with his XForce acquisition.

[yuriythebest]

so is it still $9.95 with the new owner?

Yes it is still $9.95. I should receive my package in a few days. I don't know if USPS ships on weekends though. I may not see it until Monday but hopefully sooner. Carl did seem friendly and knowledgeable enough to convince me to order. I will try to remember to post back here whether or not this is legit.

Oh yea, one last thing. He also got a quantity of these glasses http://www.stereo3d.com/anotheris.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; with his XForce acquisition.

wow, these look like a cross between the eye of an old fashioned cylon and geordi laForge. I like the large FOV.





hmm perhaps iz3d should make a polarized version

[LCountach]

Ok I can verify the sale of XForce3D to http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is legit. I just received 3 pair for myself and friends. Haven't tested them yet but I can say the fit on your temples is quite tight. Could be uncomfortable. More on that later after I test them.

[LCountach]

I must say I LOVE and HATE these glasses at the same time. I just played Left4Dead for a few hours with some friends. I did not get any eye fatigue! WOW! My old H3D/eDimensionals gave me fatigue in 30 to 60 minutes. On top of that the image is so much brighter. To me the image was clearer and had less ghosting. Just WOW! Now for the bad and I mean REALLY BAD! The ergonomics of this design is TERRIBLE for my head! Way to much pressure on my temples to be comfortable. On top of that they keep sliding down moving the lenses off my eyes. The cord attaching to the back only provoked the sliding issue. I finally found a looser temple position but unfortunately the glasses were now resting unnaturally on my ears. I am not talking on my ears like sunglasses but on the edge of my ears which caused uncomfortable pressure points. After a little while I found myself constantly adjusting them because my ears hurt. There was just no comfortable position for me. I plan to modify them for a better fit because I love the better image so much.

Well anyway that's my two cents.