The Sony HMD is real!

Post by **nrp** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:31 am

WiredEarp wrote:Yeah, I don't really see why people care too much about the head tracker. They are usually pretty average anyway (does anyone actually know if a good one that doesn't lose track?
The only decent tracker I've ever managed is the IR tracking type (trackir, freetrack etc). These are sweet for a limited area and angles, but not much good for stand up VR(although, i have thought that with multiple cameras and a hacked version of freetrack you might be able to 'pass off' the tracking to another camera to allow you to be tracked more efficiently).

I do think there could be a good gyro based one, if its a hybrid (like I've heard of a few semi decent magnetic recalibrating gyros) that recalibrates from an absolute position source. But really, it seems the only truely decent current tracker would involve magnetic sensing, and this is so far been too expensive for the consumer market (hurray Hydra).

At this price point every extra dollar spent on stuff that's not their obvious core purpose (people wanting to watch movies) is going to cost them sales.

I haven't been looking at head trackers specifically, but there are a lot of "9 axis" IMUs out there that don't drift. I've personally had good experiences with the SpacePoint Fusion module.

Post by **Aeroflux** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:54 pm

Wow, I picked this bit of news up late...can't wait for this to come out, finally something to replace my now defunct i-glasses!

Post by **ancjob** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:20 pm

Aeroflux wrote:Wow, I picked this bit of news up late...can't wait for this to come out, finally something to replace my now defunct i-glasses!

replacing my emagin and headplay for sure...

i hate emagin for their stiff attitude ....they know their headset is obsolete still they make it just out of reach for consumers charging them for something that does not deliver - just a 2D headset....

headplay becoz of the bad optics......

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:39 pm

Well I still have dreams of having the full freedom VR setup with an HMD and laptop in a backpack. Without the headtracker its just not VR.

Post by **nrp** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:25 pm

cybereality wrote:Well I still have dreams of having the full freedom VR setup with an HMD and laptop in a backpack. Without the headtracker its just not VR.

Sony has taken care of the difficult task of building an HMD with a high quality screen and decent optics, leaving us with the relatively easy task of hacking head tracking onto it. I'm going to, and I suspect many others will as well.

Post by **ancjob** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:59 pm

nrp wrote:
cybereality wrote:Well I still have dreams of having the full freedom VR setup with an HMD and laptop in a backpack. Without the headtracker its just not VR.
Sony has taken care of the difficult task of building an HMD with a high quality screen and decent optics, leaving us with the relatively easy task of hacking head tracking onto it. I'm going to, and I suspect many others will as well.

sony will have emagin rethink their position in HMD arena !
either emagin will close down shop or bring up something worth a match for sony both price and quality wise !

An HD 1280x720 OLED HMD from Sony for usd$600 with 45 FOV and HDMI 1.4a input - a dream come true - perfect with PS3 and a haed tracker !
Love you Sony as always....

Post by **WiredEarp** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:49 pm

nrp that head tracker looks good. I assume since its hybrid with a magnetic tracker, it will be able to recalibrate to avoid angular drift. How good is it with translational accuracy? I can't imagine that the magnetic tracker part would be able to help keep translation in calibration.

Post by **nrp** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:02 pm

WiredEarp wrote:nrp that head tracker looks good. I assume since its hybrid with a magnetic tracker, it will be able to recalibrate to avoid angular drift. How good is it with translational accuracy? I can't imagine that the magnetic tracker part would be able to help keep translation in calibration.

Sort of. It puts raw data from a magnetometer, accelerometer, and gyros through a Kalman filter and outputs a quaternion. So in a sense, it is constantly recalibrating the angle.

All you have for translation though is the raw accelerometer data. You would need to take that and integrate along with the angle data to get translation, and it would likely drift. I suppose you could add IR LED tracking to get absolute translation, but then you're stuck being in range of the camera(s).

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:53 pm

ancjob wrote:either emagin will close down shop or bring up something worth a match for sony both price and quality wise !...

Come on, eMagin will close the shop when they sell all the units they already produced.
Or do you think they still produce HMD with outdated support?

Post by **Aeroflux** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:20 am

The creepy thing is how close this is to the ill-fated VR arcade HMD...it never came to fruition due to a lousy transformer dissagreement with an adjacent leaser (from what I recall).

I tell you, if that center had come out my entire life would be different.

[edit] Oh my f'ing god...it was due to corrupt contractors and lawyers...now I know why I have such a distrust for them. Childhood trauma.

Post by **ancjob** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:02 pm

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:
ancjob wrote:either emagin will close down shop or bring up something worth a match for sony both price and quality wise !...
Come on, eMagin will close the shop when they sell all the units they already produced.
Or do you think they still produce HMD with outdated support?

what makes them still maintain the price at usd$1799 - they started with usd$500 in 2005 - plz look at headplay it was sold of for ridiculous prices....emagin wants to fleece people selling at a premium - a headset which is obsolete!

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:53 pm

Emagin is overpriced, but the price is not evil. They do not even sell to consumers, how could they be trying to trick them?

Emagin sells to military and medical, and for those fields, the customer support and availability of parts makes the premium worth it. Yes, they could buy a newer HMD that works better, but it would costs tens of thousands of dollars in employee training, supply chain issues, and re-writing their software to support the new hardware. For the market they serve, Emagin is a good company. For us (VR enthusiasts, consumers) they are not. It does not make them bad, it just makes them out of reach for us. If they would not have tried selling at $500, and just kept the price high from the start, none of us would be complaining!

Post by **ShawmK** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:15 am

3D Radar has posted a "Hands-on" review of the Sony HMD:

http://3dradar.techradar.com/3d-tech/if ... 03-09-2011

It's the usual snide, condescending attitude you see far too often in these reviews; they're more concerned about looking silly than they are about the picture quality. And why do bloggers always have to make the same Star Trek joke when talking about head-mounted displays? You'd think it would get old after a while...

Post by **Aeroflux** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:57 am

ShawmK wrote: It's the usual snide, condescending attitude you see far too often in these reviews; they're more concerned about looking silly than they are about the picture quality. And why do bloggers always have to make the same Star Trek joke when talking about head-mounted displays? You'd think it would get old after a while...

What is with the anti-3D movement these days? I keep hearing its a gimmick from people that are supposed to be educated. Ive been seeing the same ridiculous notions about this HMD...its like watching a 5-year old throw a temper tantrum.

Post by **3dvison** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:07 am

Yea, the funnest is when they say it's a vurtualboy or a glasstron whatever,whatever ect,ect, Bla Bla Bla,,Yea right, the new Sony HMZ with two 0.7" 720p OLED HD screens that have a zillion to 1 contrast ratio is just like some low rez. LCD panels from ten years ago with a 1:2 contrast ratio...LOL

Post by **rowanunderwood** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:08 am

Aeroflux wrote:
ShawmK wrote: It's the usual snide, condescending attitude you see far too often in these reviews; they're more concerned about looking silly than they are about the picture quality. And why do bloggers always have to make the same Star Trek joke when talking about head-mounted displays? You'd think it would get old after a while...
What is with the anti-3D movement these days? I keep hearing its a gimmick from people that are supposed to be educated. Ive been seeing the same ridiculous notions about this HMD...its like watching a 5-year old throw a temper tantrum.

As annoying as it is, I'm kinda ok with all the anti-3d sentiment out there. Remember, going mainstream wasn't necessarily all positive for gaming in general. We used to have out-there ground breaking games like Populous, Home World, Star-flight, Descent, coming out hand over fist and sporting the cutting edge of tech. Now that gaming is mainstream, the ground-breaking stuff like Minecraft, Braid, Shadow of the Colossus, or the Dark Descent is often five years behind in terms of its tech.

When only enthusiasts have the tech, as it is in 3d now, it is a different feel entirely. You have folks that are literally in love with the idea's, having intelligent discussions about what might be possible. In the mainstream market you have teenagers who couldn't tell a voxel from a pixel screaming at each other about xboxes and ps3's

Post by **ancjob** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:50 am

ShawmK wrote: In the mainstream market you have teenagers who couldn't tell a voxel from a pixel screaming at each other about xboxes and ps3's

you are right - agreed

so i guess it will be avaialble worldwide by jan/feb 2012

i 'd start to save for Sony HMZ-T1 from today......seems vuzix wrap1200vr may not be great buy at all......and cinemizer with <HD resolution also will not be good so the only choice - i guess Sony...to go for !

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:59 am

I don't know. I think if I saw someone walking down the street wearing that thing I would be impressed. Its not dorky at all.

I mean, if these dudes were walking down the street I think people would more likely cower in fear (or run) rather than giggle or make fun of them:

Post by **ancjob** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:11 pm

cybereality wrote:I don't know. I think if I saw someone walking down the street wearing that thing I would be impressed. Its not dorky at all.

I mean, if these dudes were walking down the street I think people would more likely cower in fear (or run) rather than giggle or make fun of them:

in the pic - one of them is you , cyber - and now i am afraid of you as you're visitor from another planet coming to explore our earth - alien abductions no....no...no...no...no i still got to stay to put on that 'Sony 'thing' please do not abduct me - lol

btw - where did you pickup this image from.....nice...

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:14 pm

ancjob wrote:btw - where did you pickup this image from.....nice...

This is one of the official wallpapers on TRON Legacy

Post by **ancjob** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:16 pm

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:
ancjob wrote:btw - where did you pickup this image from.....nice...
This is one of the official wallpapers on TRON Legacy

if somebody were to attend IFA'11 - sony is demo'ing this .....can somebody please review the 'OPTICS' of the sony 'thing' please ?

for optics i take the benchmark as emagin.......hence the req above

i want the optics to be so comforting that i put it on for hours without a fig of strain...which has been with emagin....

not a word about the quality of optics for sony HD HMD .....on the net!

will the 'optics' it be better than that on emagin..........i wonder ?

Post by **Aeroflux** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:18 pm

A new Sony video showing some interesting bits about using the headset itself:

How to use a Sony Personal 3D Viewer Headset

Different bits I gleaned from the video:

3 different forehead pads will ship with the device

HDMI Out is on the rear, independent of the HMD itself, so it will be possible to feed the signal back into the HDTV.

OLED>Eye Alignment software within the headset itself.

Underside light shield is shown.

Headset is NOT supposed to rest on the nose at all.

Post by **3dvison** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:57 pm

I know the Sony HMZ-T1 uses HDMI but does that mean it has to work with a computer video card that has an HDMI output ?
Is a computer with an HDMI output different than a Blu-ray player or a PS3 with HDMI output ?
Has anyone asked if the Sony HMZ-T1 will work with computers/laptops ?

Post by **Chiefwinston** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:31 pm

Thanks for the video Aeroflux. That does make one go, wow.

peace

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:46 pm

HDMI 1.4a is a standard, so any device that works with the standard will work with the headset. This includes PS3 and Blu-Ray players in addition to PCs with the proper hardware. Andrew Fear of Nvidia has said Nvidia hopes to support this HMD via the Nvidia 3DTV Play software, though AMD HD3D should work as well. In addition to 3D drivers, video software like PowerDVD, Stereoscopic Player should also work.

The only slight issue I have with the HMZ-T1 right now is that it does not appear to have diopter focus adjustment, and the form factor looks like glasses may be uncomfortable to wear with it. Luckily I also have contact lenses, which I could certainly use, but it would be nice to be able to use the headset on its own. Otherwise it looks like an awesome kit.

Post by **3dvison** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:00 pm

This might be the first HMD where the more you read about it the more you want it...LOL

Just would like an offical release date for the states...To Wrap1200 or not to Wrap1200.
Every day the Wrap does not come out, is one day closer to the Sony release.

Post by **Aeroflux** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:18 am

In this video the Sony rep mentions (1:27) "from November you should be able to experience it in the main markets." He also states (at 1:31) "it will be the first of many to follow, for next year."

....?

Either Sony doesn't have very much control over what information their representatives share, or they don't have very much control over what their representatives claim.

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:29 am

cybereality wrote:HDMI 1.4a is a standard, so any device that works with the standard will work with the headset. This includes PS3 and Blu-Ray players in addition to PCs with the proper hardware. Andrew Fear of Nvidia has said Nvidia hopes to support this HMD via the Nvidia 3DTV Play software, though AMD HD3D should work as well. In addition to 3D drivers, video software like PowerDVD, Stereoscopic Player should also work.

The only slight issue I have with the HMZ-T1 right now is that it does not appear to have diopter focus adjustment, and the form factor looks like glasses may be uncomfortable to wear with it. Luckily I also have contact lenses, which I could certainly use, but it would be nice to be able to use the headset on its own. Otherwise it looks like an awesome kit.

looks like design ideas are borrowed from visette 45 sxga here and refined further : http://www.vrealities.com/visette45.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

great it will work with my laptop [dell inspiron] , my nettop [asrock ion 3d blu-ray with hdmi 1.4a]
when he was moving the sliders i noticed that eyepiece is still large enough to view the 'inside' lenses....so small exit pupil issue is resolved - i guess

Now does not say anything
1)about focus adjt. at all...
2)it also requires AC adapter [not usb powered though]
3)remains to see how good are the optics
4)how sharp the images on the inside ?

......if it challenges Emagin in this territory [optics with razor sharp image] - then i will be great!

Post by **imPsimon** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:27 am

I just preordered mine from sony norway for about 7200nok (Everything is expensive in norway so dont be shocked by the price).

It's says it will be shipped out in mid december.

=)

Buy:
http://www.sony.no/product/head-mounted-display/hmz-t1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
brochure:
http://www.sony.no/hub/hmd-video-glasses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(forgot to mention, pages are in norwegian)

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:50 am

I know you said not to be shocked by the price, but that works out to over $1,300 USD. Thats just crazy. Hope its worth it.

Post by **imPsimon** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:05 pm

cybereality wrote:I know you said not to be shocked by the price, but that works out to over $1,300 USD. Thats just crazy. Hope its worth it.

It's one of the most expensive countries in the world so it will cost significantly less
in the us.
Yeah I hope it's worth it to.
If it gets poor reviews I'll just return it or cancel the order.

Wonder how well it'll go with a track ir 5.
Are there better trackers out there?

Post by **imPsimon** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:18 pm

cybereality wrote:The only slight issue I have with the HMZ-T1 right now is that it does not appear to have diopter focus adjustment, and the form factor looks like glasses may be uncomfortable to wear with it. Luckily I also have contact lenses, which I could certainly use, but it would be nice to be able to use the headset on its own. Otherwise it looks like an awesome kit.

It says in the brochure that it has adjustable optics:

(google transate)

"Properties HMZ-T1

Sharp 2D and 3D image - Experience games and movies in HD 2D and 3D quality, from a broad perspective

Crisp, clear pictures - Enjoy high-definition clarity through double OLED displays

Cinematic quality sound with virtual 5.1 surround sound - Recreate the cinema experience, and hear the rich sound from the game with headphones with virtual 5.1 surround sound

Customize your experience with five different sound modes - Choose between pure sound, standard, cinema, games, or 2.0-channel sound modes to make the movie and gaming experience even better

Optical widescreen display - Dual OLED display gives you a wide field of view, so you will not be disturbed by what you see before you

Built-in remote controls - Adjust the volume, access menu and change the settings of the controls on the head-mounted display

Clear display with adjustable lenses - Anyone can get a clear and focused view of adjustable lenses

TruBlack screen with high contrast - TruBlack displays provide excellent contrast and visibility of a vibrant, colorful viewing experience
More viewing options with a switch for dual output - Bills for dual output means that other people can watch TV while playing games on it's head-mounted display"

Post by **foisi** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:27 pm

imPsimon wrote:
cybereality wrote:I know you said not to be shocked by the price, but that works out to over $1,300 USD. Thats just crazy. Hope its worth it.
It's one of the most expensive countries in the world so it will cost significantly less
in the us.

On sony.fr website (and other countries with euro currency) it is 799 EUR (approx. $1,130 USD).

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:56 pm

imPsimon wrote: Clear display with adjustable lenses - Anyone can get a clear and focused view of adjustable lenses

Awesome news! This really does sound like the ultimate HMD.

Post by **3dvison** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:16 pm

PLEASE, post the link, if anyone finds a US. preorder website.

Post by **nrp** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:22 pm

foisi wrote:
imPsimon wrote:
cybereality wrote:I know you said not to be shocked by the price, but that works out to over $1,300 USD. Thats just crazy. Hope its worth it.
It's one of the most expensive countries in the world so it will cost significantly less
in the us.
On sony.fr website (and other countries with euro currency) it is 799 EUR (approx. $1,130 USD).

That is including a 20% VAT though. $800 in the US looks like a realistic price point.

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:27 pm

3dvison wrote:PLEASE, post the link, if anyone finds a US. preorder website.

yes please - this is gonna be the best HMD to date
any links to preoder for us market , please ?

Post by **genetic** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:28 am

How will this work with drivers and PC games?

Sorry, little time these days to read up on everything so I ask all of you...

I still love my Z800 but it is nice to think I could have something a little better in 2 months.

Post by **Aeroflux** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:53 am

ancjob wrote:
3dvison wrote:PLEASE, post the link, if anyone finds a US. preorder website.
yes please - this is gonna be the best HMD to date
any links to preoder for us market , please ?

Indeed, I've been abusing google for the last week for the same reason. Sony of US has the press release and no mention of the headset in the product section (as of 0937 hours -6 GMT)...so I assume that once they do link the headset as an official product in the US, commercial websites will start taking pre-orders.

genetic wrote:How will this work with drivers and PC games?

I'm also curious how this might work. I played the original Descent on my i-glasses and can't wait to do the same with this headset, only in high resolution.

Post by **3dvison** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:14 am

genetic wrote:How will this work with drivers and PC games?

I asked this sorta but I think your question is more to the point.
In the past I have hooked a computer up to a TV with HDMI but the TV would only run in 800*600 no other resolutions ?

So will the Sony HMZ-T1 run in all resolutions when hooked to a computer ? Could Sony block computer use(WHY??) I do not see why, but could they ? Would they ?
I guess we can't know right now..Unless someone on here does know right now...