Need help choosing the ultimate 3D-Ready video card...

[ERP]

Checkerboard is almost the exact same number of unique pixels as 720P frame packed.
It does have the advantage of simpler scaling, which might make the image cleaner, but that's also true of half side by side, which is supported by a lot mor TV's.
Roller over on the nvidia site just seems obsessed with it.
Fact of the matter is these legacy formats will start to disappear as newer HDMI chipsets start to be used.

[cybereality]

I haven't seen it myself, but people claim (especially on Nvidia forums) that checkerboard is way better than 720P frame-packed. Although it is technically around the same amount of pixels (same bandwidth) because of the quincunx sampling on checkerboard, you end up with something very close to a real 1080P image. While there is obviously some data loss, it is not a perceivable as the drop from straight 1080P to straight 720P. I think it is actually a decent format, and the SENSIO and RealD formats take this advantage and pack it into something that works with side-by-side and is thus broadcast and HDTV compatible. Of course, full 1080P 3D @ 60Hz (or higher) is the most desirable, but it doesn't seem the technology is ready at this point (at least not in the living room, I know this works with Nvidia 3D Vision on DL-DVI).

[ignatius]

I heard if you have a 3dtv that supports checkerboard pageflip you can game at 1080p and seems to make others happier than using framepacked 720p. Look here http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great post, i read the whole thread, very informative. It sucks how i have to choose the samsung since it has better 3d support, but i guess its not that bad compared to panasonic.

Yeah, i was a bit confused why the people on that thread are so sold on the idea of checkerboard is superior than sbs, since it's sort of the same. If one person said that, maybe i wouldnt pay to much attention to it, but it seems like everyone is in agreement that checkerboard has a superior gaming experience than pageflipping/sbs.

[Fredz]

Although similar, 1080p checkerboard has not the same pixel count than 720p (1280x720), it's in fact equivalent to a 1350x768 resolution, 720p is only 88.88% this number of pixels.

Also, half the pixels in the checkerboard image are exact (both in color and position) since they come directly from the 1080p image. The ones in the 720p image are all interpolated from the 1080p image, so not exact either in color or position. That could also make a difference in the end...

[cybereality]

Thats true, checkerboard is guaranteed to be at least 50% accurate. If you upsample 720P -> 1080P you you are getting 100% interpolation (or 0% accuracy).

[ignatius]

Alright so i did some more deal searching on some 3dtv's and i came across an insane deal on a mitsubishi WD-73C10 at dell.

I'm doing some research on it right now, but I was wondering if you guys knew anything about mitsubishi 3dtv's for 3d stuff. My guess right now is that they should be identical to samsung 3dtv's, but i'll be doing some more research on it right now and get back to you guys.

[ignatius]

So far I've found out that i probably wont be getting the WD-73C10 which is essentially the same as the 638 series. Now, i'll be looking to get rather the 738 or 838 series from mitsubishi, depending on where i can get a good deal. Both of these models support 1.4a and is listed on amd hd3d supported hardware page.

Someone also posted up something useful at the avsforums.

"The 738 and 838 TVs will now support the 3D signals known as Frame Packing 1080p/24Hz and 720p/60Hz (primarily from Blu-ray players and gaming consoles), Side-by-Side in 1080i/60Hz, 1080p/24Hz/30Hz/60Hz and 720p/60Hz, Top/Bottom in 1080p/24Hz and 720p/60Hz, and Checkerboard 1080p/60Hz."

Oh and i also forgot to mention that you don't need the 3d adapter or emitter, since they are actually built into the 738/838 tv's. Just need a pair of DLP glasses.

[cybereality]

The Mitsubishi DLPs are supposed to be nice, especially for the price. The models which support the new HDMI 1.4 standard are listed here:
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/3Dupgrade.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ignatius]

Yeah, I'm about to order the 73" 738 series of the mitsubishi 3d tv's.

Now, i'm trying to figure out what 3d glasses to buy. I hear the crystal eyes are the best, but way too expensive.

I can possibly get the 3dc-1000 starter pack from mitsubishi for a reasonable price, but I'm not sure of their quality yet. Just about to start researching up on that.

If anyone has any good info on which 3d glasses to get, that would be awesome.

Cheers..

[Fredz]

The Ultra-Clear glasses from 3D Heaven are quite cheap ($59.95) and they seem to be very good from some user reviews at AVS. You can find a topic talking about them with many links here : http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=12307" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ignatius]

Thanks fredz, I just read a ton of threads on the topic, learned a lot. Seems like the ultra-clear glasses are the real deal.

Before i buy those however, I'm going to see if my old shutter glasses are still kicking and will produce decent results. I have the old Elsa shutter glasses with an IR emitter with an old Samsung 3dtv, the first ones they released years ago. I'm hoping they'll still work, from everything i've learned so far, it seems like they should.

[Fredz]

Yes, I guess the Elsa Revelator should work with this TV, the only downsides would be the limited vision field because of the small LCD panels and the possibly limited range of the IR emitter. Keep us informed to know if it does work, could be a nice solution on the cheap.

[ignatius]

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Probably won't have the tv till 1 or 2 weeks from now.

[mayaman]

GTX580 hands down. I have this beast and its unbelievable the framerates. I'm running Crysis, with everything maxed out including AA at 16xQ and still getting 60fps. Crazy. The 3D power of this card is unrivled.

[BlackShark]

GTX580 hands down. I have this beast and its unbelievable the framerates. I'm running Crysis, with everything maxed out including AA at 16xQ and still getting 60fps. Crazy. The 3D power of this card is unrivled.

yes we know it's the most powerful graphics card on earth but it does not help answering the question of the original poster :
It's twice the price the OP is ready to spend and it does not guarantee perfect sync with dual-projectors.

[tritosine5G]

guys , you only need a hardware frame lock device for geforces and time parallel is as good as it gets.

(a framebuffer, and demux)

it's a shame you are not able to do this, I bet if you add together like 200 * 20x dollars someone would do it inside an FPGA on frigign webboards. Maybe ask ozone about this he knows about this sh1t, how much is it worth. I can get hardware manufactured , for example. Then we can sell it or something.

[BlackShark]

guys , you only need a hardware frame lock device for geforces and time parallel is as good as it gets.
(a framebuffer, and demux)
it's a shame you are not able to do this, I bet if you add together like 200 * 20x dollars someone would do it inside an FPGA on frigign webboards. Maybe ask ozone about this he knows about this sh1t, how much is it worth. I can get hardware manufactured , for example. Then we can sell it or something.

There are principles called "input" and "output", what you describe would go against the flow of pictures. It is possible to fix dual-output unsync with an external sync device but it isn't as simple as what you describe. There is a very good reason for live TV to use Genlock synchronization straight on every camera.

The unsync means the lag varies over time, sometimes it's in sync, sometimes there is 1/2 a frame lag, sometimes there is 1 frame lag, sometimes there is even more. Sometimes one input is lagging relative to the other, sometimes it's reversed.
In order to solve this problem externally, you'd need a device that can store multiple frames, analyse and compare them to determine which is pair of Left/Right frames is correct.

[Fredz]

The SoftGenLock/Genlock modules for Linux did exactly this, synchronize the graphic cards of multiple PC connected by their parallel ports to produce synchronized stereo output, without requiring external hardware.

These modules were modifying pixel clock registers or were adding invisible pixels in real-time depending on the informations send by the master PC and read on the parallel ports of the slaves.

I didn't test the multiple PCs synchronization though, only the stereo rendering for a single PC which worked quite well, but you can find some publications explaining the results they got. That was done 10 years ago.

[ignatius]

Got the 73" mitsubishi dlp, bloody awesome so far. freakishly huge.

I will try out the 3d sometime soon and let you guys know how the quality is and what not.

cheers.

[cybereality]

Sweet, man. Have fun with that.

[tritosine5G]

It depends if the FPGA chip has ball grid array packaging like bigger chips, or regular legs (pins). An FPGA with ball grid array can do colossal amount of signal processing. All doable ,but BGA is much harder to manufacture than a 250k gate xilinx for example .

[ignatius]

alrighty so i finally got a chance to test out the 3d on the new tv and it looked fantastic.

my old elsa ir emitter glasses worked perfectly fine. although they seem to be cursed with that strange purpley-green tint on the sides. i had the same problem with my old samsung 3dtv, but i was really hoping it was just the tv and not the glasses, but unfortunately it was the bloody glasses causing the strange tint. i'll probably invest in some quality 3d glasses when i get some more cash.

but honestly you rarely notice it, you can careless about it if your not that anal about picture quality. the 3d looks fantastic and gives off an amazing picture.

i tried out a bunch of stuff, like motorstorm, killzone 3, avatar, gran turismo 5. The best 3d experience definitely goes to motorstorm, and i'm already a huge fan of that game and seeing it in 3d was as if i never played it before, like it was a new game altogether. So i'm looking forward to replaying that game again

the crappiest 3D would go to gran turismo 5, for whatever reason it just didnt feel right, didn't look right. definitely a let down.

umm...yeah for anyone interested in getting a setup similar to mine, just letting you know everything looks awesome!

cheerios.

[Fredz]

If you have got a PlayStation Eye, you may give Gran Turismo 5 since it should support it for eye-tracking, possibly in 3D. In this configuration I guess the depth would be a lot more impressive.