RifTUP! FullHD Oculus DK1 upgrade kit

[LaserEdge]

Here is the pixel structure of the LS050T1SX01. This is approximately 400x magnification. My goal is to collect shots like this for each of the panels to help evaluate potential screen door effect by each panel. Of course there are many factors that determine if screen door is visible in an HMD. Pixel structure is just one of them. The way I think of it is the pixel structure is the root factor in determining if any screen door will be visible.

To answer someone's earlier question about board latency. The board itself will have a max of 10 nibble clocks of latency to VSync. That would be approximately 47ns for the 1080P panels I am currently looking at. The major source of the latency is the panel's pixel response time. Hopefully hi-res OLED tech will reach mainstream soon in one or more smartphones.

That aside I am busy working on PCB layout for the next rev.

[Kamus]

Of course there are many factors that determine if screen door is visible in an HMD. Pixel structure is just one of them.

Well, the main ones are resolution and panel technology. I doubt you'll see that much variation in pixel grid between LCD panels, they are all usually pretty bad.
The fact that the grid is completely black doesn't help matters either. Because the higher the brightness is, the more the pixel structure stands out.
I remember Panasonic using something i think they called "smooth screen" for their projectors (don't know if they still use the tech) where instead of having a black grid it would be gray, making the SDE less evident.
The best approach by far was with LCoS, JVC's D-ILA in particular. Not only is the pixel fill factor much higher than LCD, but the grid itself would allow the color to bleed from the pixels to the grid, making it look as smooth as a high resolution CRT where the pixels blend in together.

I don't think this is a priority for smartphone screens, because i guess they think that the resolution is high enough that people won't see the grid anyway (in the case of the iphone 5, even with the naked eye, i can easily see the the pixels during motion from time to time, so they'd be wrong)

I don't know how OLED fares in comparsion, i'd be nice to see a screenshot roundup of those too.

[Flim]

The 5.9 looks like the match... I wonder what it looks like under the microscope?

I'm in for 2 boards when they are ready...

[3dvison]

LaserEdge,
Have you tested your board with the 5.9 inch screen ? The 5.9 does seem like a good size to go with. Isn't the 5.0 inch too small ?

[MSat]

Here is the pixel structure of the LS050T1SX01. This is approximately 400x magnification.

Wow. In that pic, there's barely any gap between successive rows of subpixels, and the gap between the columns isn't too bad either - perhaps 1:3.

I wonder how much better the experience is if you can't see individual pixels, but only individual columns or rows.

[3dvison]

So if that is at 400x magnification, you would think it would look great through a Rift lens, which I think is only about 8x magnification .

[Kernel32]

.....

IIRC Splashtop was ruled out because the response time is over 20ms which is considered too high (I think Palmer said that but don't quote me, a bunch of threads have been blurred together for me).

.....

Would it maybe be more beneficial to use different app - iDisplay since it connects your android device as additional PC/Mac display both via WiFi and USB. Cable should be faster than WiFi in theory.
....

I tried iDisplay a few months back and it was super jerky - couldn't even use it to view flash or HTML YT... what have your experiences been like ?

It makes sense. USB on phones/tablets have mostly only the older 2.0 standard. Even Nexus 7.2 doesn't have 3.0. That is 0,5 Gbit/s (5Gbit/s USB 3.0). As the standard HDMI has 10,2 Gbit/s @ FullHD 3D SBS 60Hz with 8-bit per channel there is a need for some serious video compression.

Maybe a custom tailored droid app could enable us to compress, pull thru USB and decompress the video quickly enough. Note that we don't have to go FullHD in terms of video source to gain less screendoor, thou would be better.

I will talk to some talented Android developers.

[Endemo]

Just ordered a LS059 panel. Now only the board and a custom housing is missing:)

[Flim]

I was waiting to see what laser's plans were for the 5.9... making sure that is what we are all going with!

I will do a housing that can be printed as soon as I get the dims for the board,lcd, etc...

[Peva3]

I was waiting to see what laser's plans were for the 5.9... making sure that is what we are all going with!

I will do a housing that can be printed as soon as I get the dims for the board,lcd, etc...

Could it be possible to make a housing design that could be made with foam board or pepakura?

[Flim]

Well, I will make the 3d model... then it is up to whomever how that want to go about it... If you want foam, would be pretty easy to get a razor blade and start forming!

I do have a cnc as well, maybe I can throw a block of foam and router one out...

[Endemo]

the display will be shipped within this month. they have a slight delay until they become available. Once i have it at hand i will measure it and give you the exact dimensions. Maybe i will even remodel it in 3D and send you an obj. That would help a lot with designing the replacementparts for the rift right?
heh i was thinking to somehow redesign the lcd housing so it does actually look cool. I mean not just a flat plasticpart but rather some sort of alieneyes or things alike. Sure we would need to keep weight down. But there are ways. Mustnt be printed solid.

[xhonzi]

I remember Panasonic using something i think they called "smooth screen" for their projectors (don't know if they still use the tech) where instead of having a black grid it would be gray, making the SDE less evident.

SmoothScreen is still in use. It has less to do with a 'grey grid' (I've never heard of that before) and has more to do with filters that enlarge each pixel as it's projected to make it overcome what would otherwise be screendoor gaps.

You can read more about it here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1228937/how-p ... ally-works

I'm not sure that smoothscreen can be applied to direct view displays, but there was another thread here where someone used a privacy filter to obtain much of the same effect.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=18127

[boogerlad]

@LaserEdge, Where did you find the LS050T1SX01? I've been looking everywhere and can't find any stock. I'm very interested in this mipi->hdmi pcb you have there. Sign me up for a pcb!

[eliteturbo]

Do you guys think we could utilize a service like shapeways to print the front housing replacement once we create a 3d model? Sorry, I've been lurking in this thread since it was like 2 pages.

[LaserEdge]

@LaserEdge, Where did you find the LS050T1SX01? I've been looking everywhere and can't find any stock. I'm very interested in this mipi->hdmi pcb you have there. Sign me up for a pcb!

It is easy to find. Just look search for places selling HTC Droid DNA Replacement LCD Screen. I got mine from a company called Earthworks Design. Just be careful they are not selling "B Stock" or refurbished products as the screen may have scratches. You want new OEM parts.

While you are at it bookmark http://vr.wikinet.org/wiki/Displays. It will help you with purchasing other panels.

[LaserEdge]

Do you guys think we could utilize a service like shapeways to print the front housing replacement once we create a 3d model? Sorry, I've been lurking in this thread since it was like 2 pages.

I have used both Shapeways and Sculpteo for printing HMD housings. I find both to be excellent. Shapeways will give you an extra 10% off if your a first timer. Just leave your housing in your cart for a week or so and their system will automatically send you a 10% coupon to nudge you into buying. You can try contacting customer support directly for the 10% first timer discount. They will likely give it to you.

[LaserEdge]

I was waiting to see what laser's plans were for the 5.9... making sure that is what we are all going with!

I will do a housing that can be printed as soon as I get the dims for the board,lcd, etc...

Need time to get the connectors from China, build the board, test and then get manufactured. They way to get it quicker would be to do by hand, but too many people want boards for that to be possible. Need to be fair to everyone.

[virror]

But it would be possible to get the "first version" not made for the LS059 and just solder the cables on?
Just the connector that's different right, or did i mis-read?

[3dvison]

Just ordered a LS059 panel. Now only the board and a custom housing is missing:)

Do you have a Link you can post ? And do they sell single screens to a person not with a company ?

[LaserEdge]

But it would be possible to get the "first version" not made for the LS059 and just solder the cables on?
Just the connector that's different right, or did i mis-read?

AFAIK the only thing different between the LS050 board and the LS059 board will be the connector. But, the plan is to release all the boards at the same time. Cheaper that way for everyone.

[3dvison]

But, the plan is to release all the boards at the same time. Cheaper that way for everyone.

Any ETA ?

[RaNk]

Like everyone else who's following this thread, my interest is piqued. I would like to thank all who are contributing to this thread also. Some inspirational work being done here.

[Endemo]

Just ordered a LS059 panel. Now only the board and a custom housing is missing:)

Do you have a Link you can post ? And do they sell single screens to a person not with a company ?

look earlier in this thread. Someone posted a link to a vendor there.

Endemo

[eliteturbo]

Do you guys think we could utilize a service like shapeways to print the front housing replacement once we create a 3d model? Sorry, I've been lurking in this thread since it was like 2 pages.

I have used both Shapeways and Sculpteo for printing HMD housings. I find both to be excellent. Shapeways will give you an extra 10% off if your a first timer. Just leave your housing in your cart for a week or so and their system will automatically send you a 10% coupon to nudge you into buying. You can try contacting customer support directly for the 10% first timer discount. They will likely give it to you.

[mickman]

Help me out here guys.....

I've been reading everything over & over for the last month... but still can't find the order form ??

[Mattijs]

This is all very exciting...i want to order the 5.9 too...but I'm actually a little worried about the size. I love big fov and I actually like the lenses all the way up almost touching my eyeballs. (Actually thought about cutting my eyelashes shorter to stop them from touching the lenses cause that's annoying) BUT even on the 7inch screen i can see the borders or come close to seeing them if i back up a little to help with the annoying eyelash feeling touching the lenses. What can be done about that??? I guess without changing the lenses focus to be able to get the screen even closer to your head nothing much can be done and even the 5.9 inch screen will not be big enough...or will it?

[virror]

Its all about the lenses, changing the lenses will allow it to work very good, but problem with that is it might be hard to find perfect lenses and second is that it will probably mess up the warp shader.

[Endemo]

I could personally live with a somewhat smaller FOV as a tradeoff for much less Screendoor when using the 5.9 LG. After all ist just an intermediate solution until we can finally preorder the consumerversion sometime next year:)

[mr.uu]

Its all about the lenses, changing the lenses will allow it to work very good, but problem with that is it might be hard to find perfect lenses and second is that it will probably mess up the warp shader.

+1

Was shopping today for some lenses to fit for my iPad retina screen. Found a glasses store with a nice guy, who did measure my IPD and the optical properties of the original rift lens (brought one along) with a fancy high-tec apparatus. He said the magnification of the original lens is somewhere between 5x and 6x. So i bought a 4x, 43mm diameter one.
As i tested the new lenses with the iPad screen, the magnification was to little. With the rift lenses i could see a clear picture, but the area of view was smaler and the distance between the lenses, IPD, had to be wider (which fits my above average IPD of 69mm quite well).

Conclusion: it will be a game of trial and error to find the right lenses. I will try to find 5x, 43mm ones...
And, more plausible: my virgin-ripped frankenrift waits for the LG 5,9" or bigger replacement display!

[remosito]

I could personally live with a somewhat smaller FOV as a tradeoff for much less Screendoor when using the 5.9 LG. After all ist just an intermediate solution until we can finally preorder the consumerversion sometime next year:)

My experience with the HD Rift at gamescom is the inverse. With the 5.6" screen the screen borders were noticeable and I felt the FoV to be the more limiting part of the experience than the pixel density...

[FUNtastic]

I have been following this thread for some time now, first of all many thanks to all the people who contribute here!

I didn´t understand some things, partly because my english is not the best and on the other because of some technical things I do not know so well.
So as I understand it, to use the 5.9" panel, you definitely need another housing, also matching lenses must be found, the trial and error thing. So which advantage has this all against the use of the 7" 1920 x 1200 Nexus 7 second generation panel, as the OPS has proposed?

Or in other words, why not find or build a suitable board for 7" panel and save all the work regarding to the lenses and the housing? Is it a technical problem? I think a lot of people would dare to exchange the existing panel with another of similar size. However, a replacement of the entire housing plus the search for appropriate lenses would be a much bigger problem for most owners of the dev kit .
I would be glad, if someone could try to explain this to me succinctly.
Thanks in advance!

[remosito]

I have been following this thread for some time now, first of all many thanks to all the people who contribute here!

I didn´t understand some things, partly because my english is not the best and on the other because of some technical things I do not know so well.
So as I understand it, to use the 5.9" panel, you definitely need another housing, also matching lenses must be found, the trial and error thing. So which advantage has this all against the use of the 7" 1920 x 1200 Nexus 7 second generation panel, as the OPS has proposed?

Or in other words, why not find or build a suitable board for 7" panel and save all the work regarding to the lenses and the housing? Is it a technical problem? I think a lot of people would dare to exchange the existing panel with another of similar size. However, a replacement of the entire housing plus the search for appropriate lenses would be a much bigger problem for most owners of the dev kit .
I would be glad, if someone could try to explain this to me succinctly.
Thanks in advance!

Nexus 7 2 screens are not available yet anywhere I looked. And buying a full Nexus just to rip it apart would be way to pricey!

Another advantage of smaller screen is less waisted pixels on the outer edges. 7" is to big for circular lenses and standard human IPD. Less waisted pixels means more used pixels means higher pixel density.

[virror]

Also there is not real need to remake the housing, that parts just for a bit of extra fun : )

[Kamus]

My experience with the HD Rift at gamescom is the inverse. With the 5.6" screen the screen borders were noticeable and I felt the FoV to be the more limiting part of the experience than the pixel density...

Back at E3 they stated that the reason for this was that they were still using the optics of the dev kit. But that this would be solved later on (i heard consumer version if i remember correctly)
I'm guessing this is still the case, but it would be nice to get confirmation on this.

[remosito]

My experience with the HD Rift at gamescom is the inverse. With the 5.6" screen the screen borders were noticeable and I felt the FoV to be the more limiting part of the experience than the pixel density...

Back at E3 they stated that the reason for this was that they were still using the optics of the dev kit. But that this would be solved later on (i heard consumer version if i remember correctly)
I'm guessing this is still the case, but it would be nice to get confirmation on this.

It's quite obvious that still using the devkit lenses is the reason for this. And as clear rhat consumer version will have this corrected. I don't think a confirmation is necessary for any of it.

[Mattijs]

So what's happening now? Are you guys all gonna buy either of the 5.x inch screens?

[Vimax]

Personally, I'm going for a single LS059. I find that if I keep the optics in the Rift, the FOV loss is acceptable.
If you fullscreen any of these screenshots and look through the rift you'll see for yourself: (they show precisely the angle loss with the 5.9 screen)

ls059test03.jpg

ls059test04.jpg

I even dare to say that I prefer this option to the 7 inch Nexus 2 though I have my doubts concerning color accuracy and response time which were probably considerably better with the Nexus screen.

[FUNtastic]

Personally, I'm going for a single LS059. I find that if I keep the optics in the Rift, the FOV loss is acceptable.

But if you keep the optics, not only the smaller FOV will be a problem. A bigger problem will be that all objects displayed will appear smaller due to the smaller screen and therefore the perspective looking through the lenses will be wrong.

Am I right or something I have not understood?

[Vimax]

Since I'll use it primarily with a software I wrote, correcting the deformations will not be that difficult.
I see that in unity also, it's pretty easy to modify the shaders so that the deformation will correspond with the new smaller screen.