Meant to be Seen

TheLostBrain wrote:

First I wanna say hello to everyone!; this being my first post and all! I was wondering if anyone had tried the following Bausch & Lomb 5x Aspherical lens? Is this comparable to the one recommended by Palmer? It's much cheaper & is sold direct from amazon. If it's comparable I'll order this instead! I'm starting off by just building a fov2go type device and will "graduate" to a fancier protoype one day. Thanks guys!

http://www.amazon.com/Bausch-Lomb-Aspeh ... 000M755GK/

Welcome man. While that lens has the same focal length the comments suggest it has a smaller diameter (1.4 inch vs 2 inch). The smaller the diameter, the closer your eye has to get to the lens (eye-relief) to be able see the full field.

I purchased a set of the 5x aspherics Palmer recommended to rfurlan as well and can tell you from experience they work really well in this side-by-side configuration but the eye-relief is already pretty tight as it is ... so I couldn't imagine going w/ an even smaller diameter... you'd probably need to wear them like contacts.

If it's a smaller screen than the 5.6 hydis one then you might be able make em work.. otherwise I'd recommend the ones Palmer suggested.

Thanks for the warm welcome and great info! I'll go ahead & order the "Palmer Approved" lenses! As far as screen size right now I am just toying around with my iphone. I am planning on filming some stereo 3d using a couple side-by-side iphones and playing with different fish-eye type lenses to see how they look in my viewer! I'm excited.

brantlew wrote:@TheLostBrain: So how is your Rift knock-off stacking up? This project has got to be a cake-walk for you with all the knowledge and resources you have at hand. What are your impressions of the display itself and of the software available for it right now?

I've yet to build a housing but a bit of hand-held testing of those lenses against the hydis 5.6 w/ some sbs content was enough to confirm my expectations - it's excellent.

The Field of View offered provides a truly 'immersive' experience without a doubt and while the visual acuity (resolution vs that fov) is a bit low... in my opinion it does NOT detract from the experience at all.

The overall experience is great and nothing I've had the opportunity to try first hand (NVIS datavisors, Kaiser XL series, Sensics PiSight) even comes close to it in terms of overall performance. Hell, admittedly even my own design that I've released (and have yet to update w/ more info - sorry ), while offering a higher resolution, doesn't compare when you factor in complexity, weight, cost etc.

In my opinion this design offers the most immersive HMD experience available today for anything less than $50K on the commercial market... and in terms of overall performance-to-price nothing comes close bar none.

It will be very interesting to see what further improvements will be had with the lenses Palmer's having designed specifically for this application along w/ the corresponding distortion compensation in place - exciting times to come for all to be sure.

The 5x lenses arrived this morning, therefore here is version two - complete with ski googles! very comfotable on the face and the new lenses provide a much more detailed picture.

TheLookingGlass wrote: Thanks for the warm welcome and great info! I'll go ahead & order the "Palmer Approved" lenses! As far as screen size right now I am just toying around with my iphone. I am planning on filming some stereo 3d using a couple side-by-side iphones and playing with different fish-eye type lenses to see how they look in my viewer! I'm excited.

That is a really cool idea!

One problem you will encounter shooting 3D video using independent cameras is that while indoors or under low-light conditions, each sensor will capture frames at slightly different rates because each camera will adjust its exposure based on its own internal metering. That wouldn't be much of a problem if you were using large-sensor cameras, but if you are using a couple of smartphones you are pretty much guaranteed to end up with your eyes "out-of-sync" (not a pleasant experience).

If you don't mind being wired, I have code to generate a SBS frame from two PS Eye cameras. The resolution is terrible, but the frame rate is high and you can keep both eyes in sync

@space: Is that Emerson's SkyRim? How does it look and act in your Rift-kit? Is the distortion correction about right? Is it stable and playable (beyond the obvious problems with the menus and HUD)?

space123321 wrote:The 5x lenses arrived this morning, therefore here is version two - complete with ski googles! very comfotable on the face and the new lenses provide a much more detailed picture.

Well done, it looks awesome!

Build pics?

brantlew wrote:@space: Is that Emerson's SkyRim? How does it look and act in your Rift-kit? Is the distortion correction about right? Is it stable and playable?

No it is just a regular load of Skyrim - I had to remove Emerson's files as the 3d was to much out of alignment. The warped demo that a user has created on here is looking great!

space123321 wrote:

brantlew wrote:@space: Is that Emerson's SkyRim? How does it look and act in your Rift-kit? Is the distortion correction about right? Is it stable and playable?

No it is just a regular load of Skyrim - I had to remove Emerson's files as the 3d was to much out of alignment. The warped demo that a user has created on here is looking great!

Did you try Crysis 2 in native SBS mode?

rfurlan wrote:

space123321 wrote:

brantlew wrote:@space: Is that Emerson's SkyRim? How does it look and act in your Rift-kit? Is the distortion correction about right? Is it stable and playable?

No it is just a regular load of Skyrim - I had to remove Emerson's files as the 3d was to much out of alignment. The warped demo that a user has created on here is looking great!

Did you try Crysis 2 in native SBS mode?

I have tridef drivers installed so I am pretty much running everything is SBS with the hydra as a tracker (for the time being). Almost lost my cookies a few times lol - in an outstanding way!

Jotschi wrote:My HV056WX1-100 and the 7in1 board finally arrived.
Does someone know the model name for the 7in1 board that is being sold by vitrolight? I could not find any information in the web and the vitrolight website seems to be taken down by the Chinese government.

Some information about the 7in1 board:

The board itself works nicely with 5 Volts DC.
The 7in1 board has a 2x15 pin header (RM 2.0) for the LVDS connections. The nice thing about it is that you can easily build a small rig in between the LVDS cabel and the 7in1 board without touching the LVDS cable itself.
I think the NT68674.5X uses the same way of connecting the LVDS cable:
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/5-6-LCD-720p-WXG ... ~60_57.JPG

I believe the 7in1 board is the same that palmer uses for the rift standalone box.

Are there any sources for LVDS cable replacements?

Has someone already build a demo application or does someone know sources for information about opengl GLSL fragment shaders that deal with image wrapping?

I built that box and cable, by the way.

One word of advice - I'd install a reverse-current-protection diode on that control board. It doesn't have one currently. I accidentally connected power backwards once. It blew the backlight controller on our LCD and blew the fuse on the 7in1. I replaced the fuse on the 7in1 and it still worked fine, but the backlight on our screen no longer worked. Just be careful.

rfurlan wrote:

space123321 wrote:The 5x lenses arrived this morning, therefore here is version two - complete with ski googles! very comfotable on the face and the new lenses provide a much more detailed picture.

Well done, it looks awesome!

Build pics?

Thank you - however sorry - no build pics as it was a trial and error procedure... simply made the same foam box however cut the front face plate to fit within the ski googles. Duct tapped everything and we are good to go!

rfurlan wrote:

TheLookingGlass wrote: Thanks for the warm welcome and great info! I'll go ahead & order the "Palmer Approved" lenses! As far as screen size right now I am just toying around with my iphone. I am planning on filming some stereo 3d using a couple side-by-side iphones and playing with different fish-eye type lenses to see how they look in my viewer! I'm excited.

That is a really cool idea!

One problem you will encounter shooting 3D video using independent cameras is that while indoors or under low-light conditions, each sensor will capture frames at slightly different rates because each camera will adjust its exposure based on its own internal metering. That wouldn't be much of a problem if you were using large-sensor cameras, but if you are using a couple of smartphones you are pretty much guaranteed to end up with your eyes "out-of-sync" (not a pleasant experience).

If you don't mind being wired, I have code to generate a SBS frame from two PS Eye cameras. The resolution is terrible, but the frame rate is high and you can keep both eyes in sync

Hmm...didn't realize this. My current budget only allows me to work with the hardware I have in hand which is why I sadly couldn't get in on the Oculus Kickstarter Oh well! I'll have fun Frankensteining my own caveman version. I wonder if there are any apps that will allow me to manually control exsposure, frame rates, etc. If not I'll work with what I get. I can always rig up my DSLRs but those are a tad bit heavy for headmounting

TheLookingGlass wrote:Hmm...didn't realize this. My current budget only allows me to work with the hardware I have in hand which is why I sadly couldn't get in on the Oculus Kickstarter Oh well! I'll have fun Frankensteining my own caveman version. I wonder if there are any apps that will allow me to manually control exsposure, frame rates, etc. If not I'll work with what I get. I can always rig up my DSLRs but those are a tad bit heavy for headmounting

If you shoot well-lit scenes it shouldn't be much of a problem

Well I think I win the competition for worst looking Rift knockoff, but probably also the cheapest (screen+driver board was £60 delivered and lenses were £3 delivered).

I found out I have quite narrow IPD (around 60mm) which means I can't "join up" the stereoscopy if I render straight side-by-side. The screen is a bit larger than the Rift's (7in vs 5.6in) which also explains why Rift can have 100% overlap and I can't I guess.

The lens are 40mm and claim to be 10x magnification.

Yeah, I think you win!

Dycus wrote: I built that box and cable, by the way.

One word of advice - I'd install a reverse-current-protection diode on that control board. It doesn't have one currently. I accidentally connected power backwards once. It blew the backlight controller on our LCD and blew the fuse on the 7in1. I replaced the fuse on the 7in1 and it still worked fine, but the backlight on our screen no longer worked. Just be careful.

Do you mind if I ask how you're sending the LVDS and power for the display over the single HDMI cable (or are you?) – I think I might cry if it's all just custom soldering I'm trying to get my DIY unit to only have a single cable at the HMD end.

sellars wrote:I think I might cry if it's all just custom soldering

I expect thats exactly what it is. That is a good thing, it means you don't have to buy more stuff. Why would you cry?

EDIT: Unless you don't have soldering stuff. Then you can cry... If you need a soldering iron and you have the cash I recomend the Hakko fx-888. Kinda expensive but will last the rest of your life.

bobv5 wrote:

sellars wrote:I think I might cry if it's all just custom soldering

I expect thats exactly what it is. That is a good thing, it means you don't have to buy more stuff. Why would you cry?

Because I really suck at soldering!

I've taken a look at the LVDS and inverter pins on the board that came with the display (the mini one, rather than the 7 in 1) - the pin headers aren't the usual 2.54mm pitch IDC that I'm used to, otherwise I'd just shove an IDC connector with a ribbon cable into the 2x15, soldering the other end of the ribbon into a HDMI socket with a small ribbon or even a few jumper wires into the inverter, sadly they don't fit.

What gear do you use for soldering? A decent iron make so much difference. I have a cheapo one and it makes crappy joins. I use my friends good one and it all goes well.

sellars wrote:Do you mind if I ask how you're sending the LVDS and power for the display over the single HDMI cable (or are you?) – I think I might cry if it's all just custom soldering I'm trying to get my DIY unit to only have a single cable at the HMD end.

You can send any LVDS pair through an HDMI cable as long as you line it up so that your two wires go through a pair of wires in the HDMI cable. HDMI also has extra wires for I2C/USB and power. I've sent LVDS signals over ethernet and USB cables. They're all rated to support 100 ohm differential pairs which is what LVDS is. You would buy your end connectors from somewhere like Digikey and solder the pins to the wires on your boards so that they come out the same side on the other end of the cable.

bobv5 wrote:What gear do you use for soldering? A decent iron make so much difference. I have a cheapo one and it makes crappy joins. I use my friends good one and it all goes well.

The iron isn't as important as the flux you use. A crappy iron with external flux will outperform a good iron with no flux.

Heh, it was all custom, sorry. I had to figure out which pins on HDMI are twisted pairs, wire LDVS correctly, and then send USB over it as well. I think I ended up with two extra pins, but I could probably squeeze a couple more out of it. Soldered up custom connectors on both ends. It's not actually HDMI going through, I'm just using the cable.

Soldering isn't too hard if you have a good iron. Or, have a crappy iron and be good at soldering. I use a generic RadioShack 35w iron. It's about 10 years old, still works like a champ. Just make sure the tip is good.

Dycus wrote:Heh, it was all custom, sorry. I had to figure out which pins on HDMI are twisted pairs, wire LDVS correctly, and then send USB over it as well. I think I ended up with two extra pins, but I could probably squeeze a couple more out of it. Soldered up custom connectors on both ends. It's not actually HDMI going through, I'm just using the cable. Soldering isn't too hard if you have a good iron. Or, have a crappy iron and be good at soldering. I use a generic RadioShack 35w iron. It's about 10 years old, still works like a champ. Just make sure the tip is good.

I have a bad iron and I am terrible at soldering but...

Chriky wrote:Well I think I win the competition for worst looking Rift knockoff, but probably also the cheapest (screen+driver board was £60 delivered and lenses were £3 delivered)

It doesn't look that bad!

Besides, the journey is more important than the destination

If you don't want to solder the hdmi connector or cut the hdmi cable you can use a HDMI terminal block.

So...

While cringing at the soldering task, I decided to finish the head mount side of things, so here we go:
And here comes the hot glue...

Nice.

Jotschi wrote:If you don't want to solder the hdmi connector or cut the hdmi cable you can use a HDMI terminal block.

That would make the job much easier

Does anyone know where we can buy those?

It is on Alibaba but the minimum order is 1000 units :/

sellars wrote:While cringing at the soldering task, I decided to finish the head mount side of things, so here we go:

Well done Sellars, it looks great!

@sellers: Yeah that looks nice - maybe better than the one they are toting around to demos.

rfurlan wrote:

Jotschi wrote:If you don't want to solder the hdmi connector or cut the hdmi cable you can use a HDMI terminal block.

That would make the job much easier
Does anyone know where we can buy those?

I ordered mine from http://www.reichelt.de for around 7€.
http://www.reichelt.de/HDMI-DVI-VGA-Ver ... CLE=113234

This looks fun but I'm not building the HMD yet, so instead here is my case mod for the Sparkfun head tracker. It could probably sit right on top of those HMD boxes with the plug going over the head.

After soldering the pins, get some 6-32 nylon nuts and screws from Home Depot. The Sparkfun has four mounting holes that these screws will fit into. Clip the screw length so that the nuts sit flat. That creates some feet to protect the pin joints and to mount the device with.

Next get a little project box from Radio Shack. The Sparkfun fits almost perfectly except for the connector. Super glue the nylon nuts to the bottom of the box to mount the device. Be careful not to glue-lock the screws into position. You should be able to unscrew and remove the device if necessary.

Finally cut a hole for the connector. A tight fit will protect the pins from bending under stress from the USB cable.

Interesting project. Definitely following along. Couple of questions:

Has anyone thought about designing a case with a 3-d printer and black ABS filament?

How about using an iPhone 4S as the LCD? The gyroscope which is inside could be used for head tracking, though we may have to sacrifice a bit on FOV. Another possibility is the Galaxy Note which has a 5.3" display. Interestingly, the low rez on these devices might not be so much an issue because the CPUs probably can't handle anything higher. (The note 2 looks pretty amped however and I'm sure the iPad mini will be equally speedy).

One idea I'm toying with is developing an open source build of lenses + 3d printed case + simple 3d demo app which everyone could slot their smartphone into. Should give people enough of a taste to go out and get the real thing.

Critiques welcomed!

@blazespinnaker
Good Idea, but it´s already done (without 3dprinting): http://projects.ict.usc.edu/mxr/diy/fov2go/

I habe seen someone with a 3dprinted case. Didn´t remember which thread. Look around the forum...

Just stumbled across this project in passing, looks very interesting. Perhaps you could get past the node issue by using larger diameter lenses (like a 60 mm or something) and cutting a half nose shape out of each. This would perhaps increase the FOV? Surely it would allow the lenses to be mounted slightly further away from the eyes at least. Would ease problems for people with small PDs. It only struck me because cutting spectacle lenses is what I used to do for a living. Easy with the right equipment, bribe your local optician.

Cheers, thanks Rotator!

brantlew wrote:This looks fun but I'm not building the HMD yet, so instead here is my case mod for the Sparkfun head tracker. It could probably sit right on top of those HMD boxes with the plug going right over the head.

Nice work on the tracker box, brantlew!

Because of the blinkers on the head unit I made up, it looks like I'll have some room to route the cable for the display and certainly the Hillcrest (as it's tiny) on the inside, either on the right, left or both (the cable somes out of the box at the moment as I needed it to test the screen/alignment with the box closed

I probably won't stretch to buying a Sparkfun unit with the potential availability of another product, but I'm definitely interested in the accuracy or if you can overcome the latency

Looks like they aren't going via the HDMI carrier cable for all their prototypes:

http://lockerz.com/s/240176165

Although they do appear to have cut down the viewing box size in favour of keeping the spacer in the ski goggles (I ended up cutting off most of the front face of the ski goggles, leaving just the piece that sits next to your head, two side pieces to hot glue to the faceplate, and a nose section.

That said, I like that they've cut down the box size - that spacer lets the unit be more breathable, they just have to figure out a way to let the air through and not the light, L shaped surround perhaps.

And I don't have a HDMI terminal block, so... I'm using a flexible 90 degree HDMI extension. Sympathy WIP shot:

Are you soldering directly to the header pins? It may be a bit late now, but for future reference: you can use old IDE cables, cut to size widthwise. Easily removable, and much easier (and neater) to wire up.

Unfortunately, I can't use ribbon cable (and I don't have any IDE cable) - ribbon cable and the IDC connectors are 2.54 mill pitch, the ones on the board are 2mm.

I've given it up for now and just mounted the board to the headset - feels too heavy with the board on there, annoyingly.

2.5"/'laptop' IDE leads have the correct smaller pitch if you happen to have any lying around.