Parralex Inversion Fix???

Post by **iondrive** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:04 am

Hi neph,

well I'm glad you tried this anyway even though it didn't work. But wait, did you reset GlassesSwitchDelay to 0? If not, try hitting alt-equals a few times, like 7 or 10. If that changes something, then hit alt-minus (not the numpad minus) to undo it. I tried this on my winXP computer and it does work to invert the parallax but I get temporary flicker / sync-loss when I hit the Alt key. Other than that, I think it should be usable that way. I tested it using various resolutions and frequencies and a value 27 or above should have worked with all of them. In many cases lower numbers like 20 or 16 also worked but another way to use it is to set it to "1" and use Alt-equals like 4 or 5 times to invert. Anyway, when you're done, reset GlassesSwitchDelay to 0 and move on. Too bad nvidia sometimes takes out useful features.

My humblest apologies if this caused your ghosting problem in your other thread. I don't see how it could possibly do any real damage. Resetting that registry value should fix it if it is the problem. I'll edit my previous post to tell people to reset it to 0.

--- iondrive ---

Post by **iondrive** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:54 am

hi again, how about some humor?

I've solved it!!!
if you're gaming with a projector at 120 Hz, then all you need to do is move your screen back 1,250 kilometers and the round-trip speed of light time will be 1/120th of a second and your glasses will be in sync! YAY!!!

You could orbit the moon with an altitude of 777 miles and point a super-bright projector straight down onto the surface but that would only work on the dark side of the orbit and the moon's not perfectly flat anyway. Oh wait, this won't work for you since you're gaming at 75 Hz. Nevermind. Shucks, I thought I had it.

I had another joke but I forgot what it was. Anyway I've been researching this and it looks like that registry trick only works with old-school drivers. But from one of your previous posts, what did you mean by "I tried the method as described at 3d flight sim website"? So did you use a VGA v-sync detector/inverter box and connect it's 3-pin port to the stereo-sync input jack of the 3dvision usb emitter box? If not, do you have that "3-pin VESA to 2.5 mm stereo jack" cable? It looks like that's your best/only option for non-upsidedown glasses. Do you have an old dongle? If you can't get that signal delay/inverter box, then it looks like you have to use your old dongle with that cable and the stereo input jack on the usb hub after you invert the sync pulse with an inverter chip or other. You know all this already right? The only thing I wonder is if you need to select something in the driver menus to get the hub to use the sync input signal or does it just always use it automatically whenever it's plugged in?

display ID spoofing?
Question: Does the 3dvision system ever invert the sync correctly on it's own with some designated "3dvision ready" DLP pj's or do all those need to use the sync input jack too? If they do not, then maybe you could trick the system into thinking it has that kind of DLP. I'm afraid I don't know much in this area so can't really help you. I only know that others have done some kind of display ID trickery for other reasons. I know you're already "spoofing" it to look like a CRT but that's a hardware spoof. There's a software spoof out that that I would have to research more about but I have to move on to other things. I guess you have to use the dongle/inverter/cable/stereo-input method until someone figures that out. It's a bummer to turn on the sync with ED-Activator all the time. Sorry I couldn't help more.

--- iondrive ---

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:22 am

Well I have the E-Dimensional KIT with Dongle. I also have the 3 pin inverter for the ED Wireless glasses from the 3D Flight Sim website.. As for the Other post can you link it too me?? I am not sure what I tried but it was on the 3D flight Sim website and that site has changed???

I tried this:

1. Hooked ED Dongle to VGA Port
2. Hooked 3 Pin VESA to 2.5mm Stereo plug to nVidia Emitter..
3. Tried with BOTh wired ED Glasses and the nVidia Wireless glasses..

The ED Glasses did NOT turn ON but I also tried using the ED Activator that did NOTHING??

What else do you have up your Sleeve.. or If I hooked it up wrong Please let me know..

Post by **iondrive** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:16 pm

ok let's see,

Is this the right flight simulator post you're thinking of?
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... tor#p22567
In post 1, in the section on Ghosting, (using other words) he mentions connecting the dongle to the usb box and then talks about some circuitry in the next section.

You don't have this box, right?
http://nextstepsolutions.co.uk/home/node/11

You have an inverter that plugs into the dongle, and then you can connect from the inverter to the 3dvision usb box. Is that right?

OK let's work on this some more.
Step 1 - Get the eDim glasses shuttering.
Hmmm, why is the Activator not working? Resolution and frequency shouldn't matter much but tell me what they are anyway as well as bit depth. Are you running 3 displays? If so, then do you see colored lines on the tops of all three displays when you run ED-Activator? If not, then make sure the colored lines appear on the display that the dongle is attached to. Disconnect the 3-pin DIN just in case there's something weird happening that's interfering with the dongle's workings. Right now, we're just trying to get a good signal from the dongle. Just use the wired eDim glasses for now. If the dongle's still not working, then check your display settings and shut off antialiasing or any similar image-processing that might be screwing with the colored lines. You're not running your displays in interlaced mode are you? If it's still not working we may have to resort to using mplayer to turn on your glasses. Do you have a version of mplayer? You might and not know it. Do a file search for it under your "Program Files" folder. I'll stop here and wait for an update. Sorry I let this weekend slip by before responding. I'll respond more quickly in the following days.

Blue Line Code Support:
Here's two more questions that might be important:
Do you know if your dongle is newer than 2009?
Can you use sView to check if your dongle responds to blue-line code as described in this thread?
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14503

If we're really lucky, we might get to the point where you can toggle eye-sync with a hotkey for DX9 games.

--- iondrive ---

Humorous:
I remembered the other impossible way to fix your problem but it requires a 4th dimension of space. If you could push your glasses into the 4th dimension and then rotate them in the right way, then you could pull them back into normal space and they would be a mirror image of themselves and the shutters would be oppositely positioned and your problem would be solved... OK, that's not that funny. Oh I see what happened, I confused funny with nerdy.

What didn't work:
OK, I admit I actually tried this. As mentioned elsewhere, I have two PJs and one has both input and output VGA ports. I thought for a second that the projector might delay the VGA signal by one frame so that I could feed the signal through one PJ to the other so that the signal would be delayed a total of 2 frames and the glasses would be in sync but it doesn't work that way. The signal going out is in phase with the signal going it so that both projected images are inverted (in phase with each other). Oh well. Nice try. Are there any other devices that delay a VGA signal by one frame. I can't think of any.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:47 pm

OK I got the EDimensional Wired Glasses working with the ED Dongle.. I have to use the ED Activator but it works..3072x768 32bit 75HZ 3 DLP Projectors..

My Dongle does NOT support BLC?? I did get it working when I selected that sView program for EDimensional Glasses..
Even My 3D Vision Glasses worked with the SView Program and I could reverse the Eyes..HMMMM Perhaps there is some hope..

I also updated the Drivers to the new WHQL Ones 295. it still has CRT Support.. I was told nVidia Eleminated it???
But I did get the ED Glasses Working but boy are they SMALL and I cant see All the Screens as easy as with the nVidia Vision glasses..

I am hoping to sell these OLD DLP Projectors and get some new ones..

Post by **iondrive** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:25 pm

more...

So when you used your nvidia glasses upside-down, were all three PJs in sync? That's really cool.

Glad to hear the good news regarding sView as well as ED-Activator. Did you figure out why it didn't work before? You should use it on the desktop before you start a game. Did you try to use it during a game? It can work but it's annoying how it switches to the desktop. Try to make your desktop the same res and freq as your game. If it's a different freq, then sometimes the dongle doesn't like it and flickers the glasses badly. When you use the Activator, you see colors across the tops of all three screens right? It should work fine that way. When you used sView before, did all three displays get affected when you went fullscreen (center-PJ image, side-PJs black)?

Please test BLC again with sView while using a single PJ (the one the dongle's connected to of course). Look for blue lines on the bottom of the screen. Also don't forget to run it in fullscreen mode. And try to remember what year you got it although that's not so important.

step 1: get the eDim glasses shuttering... done.

step 2: get the eDim dongle to trigger the nvidia glasses
You probably guessed this one and maybe you did it already. Go ahead and connect your adapter cable from the eDim dongle to the nvidia USB hub / IR emitter. Try this without the inverter first just to make sure this works. Hopefully the nvidia glasses will start to shutter automatically once the hub gets the signal. If they don't then we might need some outside help regarding how to change nvidia driver settings so that the hub uses the input signal. Your adapter cable is not homemade is it? It should have a 3-pin DIN on one end and a 2.5mm stereo plug on the other. You should not connect the wired glasses jack to the usb hub. That should not work since the signals are not compatible.

step 3: try step 2 with the inverter
If the dongle can trigger the hub, then try it with the inverter. If that works, then you should be able to use the switch on the inverter to do any needed parallax inversion and we're sort of done unless we want to experiment some more for a better solution. Is your inverter homemade? It has a switch on it right? Or a timing delay dial?

If step 3 doesn't work, you might be able to get away with stopping after step 2. You might be able to toggle 3dvision off/on until you get the right eye-sync just by luck but that's too annoying IMHO.

An alternate fix:
Maybe you noticed the thread about shaders. I wonder if a shader can be made that displays the previous frame instead of the current frame. That would fix your problem without all this rigamarole. Unfortunately, I only know a little bit about shader programming and it's not enough to know if this is possible.

I'll talk a little more later.

--- iondrive ---

oh, hi neph, I see you're online now.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:37 pm

Well I bought those ED Glasses proablly back in 2003-04?? I tried hooking up the nVidia Emitter to the ED Dongle it gets NO Signal or DOES NOT come on and it goes into ANAGLYPH Mode in SVIEW with FULL SCREEN.,.

I need the Emitter plugged into the USB Port to work correctly or the nVidia drivers realise I do NOT have Certified Projectors or a CRT and they SHUT OFF the 3D Vision

Well not sure what else to do I am just going to start saving for those Projectors..

Post by **iondrive** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:01 pm

Right, don't unplug the emitter from the usb port. Leave that in all the time.

Get to the desktop with no glasses shuttering.
Connect emitter to dongle. Also have the wired eDim glasses connected at the same time. Activate dongle with ED-Activator. Verify eDim glasses are shuttering. Check if nvidia glasses are shuttering. If not, then go ahead and try a game in s3d and check if nvidia glasses shutter now. If so, try with switch as in step 3 above.

So, the BenQ's you want won't have a parallax inversion problem? Or do they have their own 3-pin DIN sync output?

--- iondrive ---

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:14 pm

Hey I think it worked LOL!! well it Shutters anyhow.. I will try with the inverter but I dont think it isd reversed I will Double chekc that ingame..

Oh and I remember what I dod from the 3D Flight Sim Website. they had a little guide on HOW to Check for Parralex Inversion and I did that to find out I have it with the Current Sharp XR10XL Projectors HEHE!!

Will brb with Report..

EDIT: OK BACK Before I say it works what is the BEST Way to check for Parralex Inversion?? But I think it is working??

Post by **iondrive** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:22 pm

YAAAAAAAYYYY!!!!

Questions:
When do the nvidia's start shuttering? After ED-Activator or after game-start?
Does your inverter have a switch and a dial?

Here's how I check for parallax inversion when I'm not sure.

EDIT: try this first cause it's simpler (copied from my next post)
just compare the view with glasses normal and upside-down. One of them will look better. That's the non-inverted view... if it looks better upside-down, then it's inverted.

Increase convergence, close one eye. The entire scene should slide towards your nose if they are correct (increased convergence means more cross-eyed). If not then you have inversion. Opposite effect for decreasing convergence... views SHOULD move away from nose. Nvidia's separation control is a little strange so you should not use this technique with separation, only convergence.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:23 pm

iondrive wrote:YAAAAAAAYYYY!!!!

Questions:
When do the nvidia's start shuttering? After ED-Activator or after game-start?
Does your inverter have a switch and a dial?

OH I do NOT Need the ED Activator it is working CORRECTLY with the nVidia Glasses I just need to be sure with a method to check for Parralex Inversion..

NO IT is Automatic Switch it just works well with the Old ED Glasses it just worked no Switch on it..

NO DIAls or anythng so how do I Double check for Inversion??YIPPPEEEEEE!!! I think it works

Post by **iondrive** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:33 pm

"NO IT is Automatic Switch it just works well with the Old ED Glasses it just worked no Switch on it.."

Oh, darn!!! You need a switch because you should just get a 50% chance of it being correct or not. From other posts, once you set it correct, then it should be good for the duration of your game. For now, you just have to toggle s3d off/on until you see it's right.

I guess an easier way to test for inversion is just increase separation (or not) and just compare view with glasses reversed and non-reversed. One of them will look better.

Oh, wait. Don't need the activator? Hmmm, then it must be getting a signal on pin 12 of the VGA port. Strange. Oh well, keep testing and see.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:37 pm

OK Will do some more testing BRB..But I thought the inverter will fix the Inversion??

EDIT: It is 99% Fixed it is NOT INVERTED AT ALL. I even switched the game Stereo OFF/On a Couple times it kept working CORRECTLY

Well now that we got well mostly You I just Pulled Plugs and whats left of my hair HAHA!! there is a SLIGH Ghost and it is like a Bluish color but hardly Noticible at all in BRIGHT AREAS MAYBE MORE????

But this is FIXED NO NEED TO GET NEW PROJECTORS..Except fro the Slight Blue Ghosting 99% FIXED!! THNX SO MUCH..

IF you drink let me know I owe you a 6 pack of your FAVORITE BREW OR Botle of Spirits or something !! SERIOUSLY!!

Post by **iondrive** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:49 pm

If nvidia puts a stereo sync signal on pin 12, then you can use the dongle in DDC mode and you won't need a switch, just an inverter. If this is true, then don't use the activator since it will override DDC mode. I didn't expect nvidia to use the DDC triggering method so using the activator means it just turns on the glasses without knowing which eye-view is showing... 50% chance of being right. Then you need a switch so you don't have to fiddle with toggling s3d off/on till it looks right. Maybe we can do better with some more ideas using shaders or something.

thanks...
You're welcome! It makes me happy to get some success from fixing an annoying problem. Also someone else will come along and be able to read this to fix their problem too. Maybe I'll just ask you to do some testing for me if I have some crazy ideas and that'll be thanks enough. But it will always be OK if you don't have time or something. I don't really want you to feel in debt. So you really don't need to use the activator? Huh, weird.

--- iondrive ---

Good to know this works so I will know more about what to expect for when I eventually get my own 3dvision.

Oh yeah, I still want you to do that single PJ BLC test if you don't mind. (at your leisure, take a week if you want. enjoy some gaming now)
Also, we'll see how this goes after you use this setup for a while. Then we'll really know if you don't need a switch.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:53 pm

OK Let me say what I did.

I hooked the Dongle and the Inverter up and Plugged the Dongle 3 pin to the 2.5mm Stereo pin into the 3D Vision emitter and it know works 100% of the time no need to click a switch it just works like it did before..

NOT sure why it works and I dont care it works.. let me know I can send you some cash to get yourself your Favorite 6 pack or whatever you like....

Post by **iondrive** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:05 pm

no, no cash, just do some testing for me someday, at your discretion.

OK, well I'm very happy now.

If this didn't sync right, then I was thinking of making a shader that adds BLC to frame-sequential games if that's at all possible, but that could only work with DX9 games so far.

I've been reading some of your other posts. Boy you have alot of them. Saw your Jane's flight sim pics. cool.

going offline now, CU later.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:09 pm

hehe OK Let me know what you wanna test ill be good to do it anytime..

Yes alot of post throughout the years.. you should see Falcon 4 BMS 4.32 on my setup there are some pics in the OLD SCHOOL forum under Virtual Flight Simulator

.. they did some nice mods to that sim..

i DO Notice slight Ghosting very hard to see but it is there.. it may be the glasses this time??? I may buy the new Vision 2 glasses for the bigger size and new design..

You where also right about me needing to turn OFF/ON the 3D Effect to get the inversion to work right.. Seems a small price to pay but once you get it right it just works perhaps unless you minimize the game or quit and come back..

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:21 am

iondrive wrote:YAAAAAAAYYYY!!!!

Questions:
When do the nvidia's start shuttering? After ED-Activator or after game-start?
Does your inverter have a switch and a dial?

Here's how I check for parallax inversion when I'm not sure.

Increase convergence, close one eye. The entire scene should slide towards your nose if they are correct (increased convergence means more cross-eyed). If not then you have inversion. Opposite effect for decreasing convergence... views SHOULD move away from nose. Nvidia's separation control is a little strange so you should not use this technique with separation, only convergence.

OK I think I got this right but the Cross eyed thing is confusing me.. here is the Following DEFAULT Keys for nVidia Convergance:

1. Increase Convergence === CTRL+F6
2. Decrease Convergence === CTRL+F5

Now when I kepress CTRL+F6 it moves Towards my nose..So I got it working but I need the ED Activator to BE ON?? I thought last time it was OFF?? But NP IT works with it on so NO Big Deal maybe it was ON before I just didn't notice in my Excitement..

I will try the Single Projector BLC Tomorrow or when Im bored but soon OK!!

EDIT: WEll I have at least I think the Glasses are wearing out and need to be replaced.. There are Color anomolies near the outer lens left and Right Outer part.. I also still see the Ghosting altho NOT as Pronounced but still there..

I am going to go ahead and buy another pair and see what happens after that..I think I am going to get the 3D Vision 2 pair..

REEDIT: Having been up all night and reviewing this that was my final decision the GLASSES are BURNT and near death.. So I decided to give the Inverter trick andothere try this time with the new Glasses I just ordered.. I bought the nVidia 3D Vision 2 Glasses..

The Graphic Anomolies where being caused by the FAN NOT Spinning at the Proper speed I had selected for a user config.. it always shuts off and goes back to Auto which for an OC Card is TOO SLOW.. I got it fixed now no damage just some anomolies. User Defined Config is in Full Effect..

Post by **iondrive** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:09 am

wow, there's always more to talk about. haha.

Let's start with ED-Activator. Once you use it to activate the dongle and turn on the ED glasses, it stays on all the time. You can leave the eDim wired glasses connected and treat them as an indicator light to tell you when the dongle is active. Once you use the activator, they should keep shuttering even if you play multiple games and go to/from the desktop and turn on/off 3dvision. This may have been why you thought you didn't need it. It may even keep shuttering after a reboot if you did not turn off your computer. To shut off the dongle, you need to use the off function of the ED-Activator or power down the computer. This is good to know because your dongle can get stuck "on" if your system crashes or something.

"Antialiasing Gamma Correction was on"
I saw this in your other thread. So that caused the red problem, right? I'm not sure but this might have made your activator not work if it was screwing up the color stripes at the top of the screen.

Step 2a: try that registry trick again
I think it's worth trying this with the new setup. Set "GlassesSwitchDelay" to "1" and hit alt-equals seven times. Take your finger off the alt key each time. Do this with the glasses on with 3d mode active and just watch the screen for inversion. alt-minus to undo. Maybe this only works with an external sync signal like we're using now. Reset to zero when done.

Step 2b: get/make a switchable inverter
It looks like once the 3dvision "decides" on "odd" or "even" frames, it might seem to stick with that for a while so you might not have a 50/50 change over short periods of time when you toggle 3dvision off/on. You may decide to use the ED-Activator to off/on the dongle. If you can solder and you don't need a time-delay feature, then I'm going to refer you to my "parallax inversion fix" thread again.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4661
Skip to post 4 and use the schematic that shows the switch. It'll be up to you to design the thing so that the switch is conveniently positioned for you to hit when needed. If you need a delay circuit then we'll have to find another schematic for you. Maybe from one of RageDemon's posts or that flight sim post guy.

inversion detection:
first try using the glasses upside-down and normal and just see which is better. It may be obvious. If not, then you might want to increase Separation and it might be obvious then. Regarding Convergence, yes, you did it right but it might be easier to remember "decrease" (Ctl-F5) because then, left-view moves left, right-view moves right (views diverge). That indicates correct viewing. Another way is to find some distant tower or mountain or possibly sun/clouds and view it without the glasses so you see the double image of it. Then look through the left lens and the right image of the thing should be blocked. That indicates correct viewing. This might not always work because some games have distant things at the wrong depth.

Fan problems:
Wow, I don't think I would have figured that one out. You still have a little blue ghosting, right?

up all night:
Oh man, now you have to sleep for a day. I've been there before. hah.

I have a little more to say but I'll save it. That's enough for now. L8r.

--- iondrive ---

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:39 am

YES Most of the red shift probally was from that. I did NOTICE the Glasses are older now 2 years ++ and they are red tint on the innerside of the lens so that could have made what I saw red.. I ordered a new pair of 3D Glasses so hopefully within the week I'll get them..I got the nVidia 3D Vision2 Pair of 1..

I was going to try the registry trick but the Entry is wrong on that link you just posted was wrong.. I went to the old link and this is the reg entry:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D Find an entry called "GlassesSwitchDelay".
Set it to decimal 27.
Start a 3d test.

EDIT: reg entry did NOT work

....

OK Thread 4 had the inverter with the CHIP in it right?? do I need to put in a 3 way switch with that as well??? I would appreciate you helping me more with designing this thingie.. I can get the Bread Board at Radio shack not sure if they have the Chip and the Plugs or not will find out if I go tonight..

So Also note that this Lil board thing is going to turn the Inversion OFF/On at the flick of a switch and I will NOT have to turn it off and on multiple times like I currently do with the emitter??

I am NOT sure I understand fully why I am going to make this Switch for??

Post by **iondrive** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:47 pm

"Yes" to your last question.

I have to go now. I'll edit this post later to add more...

Back now, yes, switch is for enabling the inverter only when needed. If BLC worked with your setup, then we might not need a switch but I think chances for that are slim.

Another registry tweak...
If you want to, let's see if the nvidia driver can output BLC. In that same registry location as before, set StereoViewerType to 16 decimal (remember the original value so you can change it back later). Then make a new dword entry called LineColorCode and set it to ff. Then try some game in 3d. Don't run the nvidia control panel or use the nvidia test since it might reset StereoViewerType. Look for thin blue lines on the bottom of the screen when in 3d. If this works, there's a chance you might not need the switch. When done, set StereoViewerType back to what it was before (I expect it should be 1). Go ahead and delete LineCodeColor. I don't really expect this to work but there's a chance it might. You should probably try this in single monitor mode but it's OK with me if you don't want to bother.

Comments:
OK well, if I'm planning on getting the 3dvision some day I might need the same thing as you so I can go ahead and make one for myself. Don't buy a breadboard unless you want one for some other reason. This project is pretty simple and might not even need a circuit board. I thought we might modify your inverter but after consideration, it might be better to make a second thing and not screw with your present one. Describe your inverter if you want. Is it like a box or a cable or both?

Ideas:
Right now, I think the best idea I have is to make this out of easy-to-find common parts and make it like a box with a push-button toggle switch that you could put on the floor if you want and use it as a footswitch. How does that sound? The switch should be a SPDT (single-pole dual-throw). Of course you could put it on your desk too. The box and switch need to be a little strong for footswitch use. Basically, it would look like my other wired inverter/junction box using stereo jacks instead of 3-pin DINs since things will be easier to find that way. You would not use your current inverter and use your current DIN-stereo plug adapter cable. Plug that into your dongle and plug the 2.5mm stereo plug into the box. The box would have two stereo jacks, one 2.5mm jack and one 1/8 inch (standard audio) jack. Then you could connect the box to the emitter using a standard audio cable (male-male) with a 1/8 inch to 2.5mm plug adapter on the end. It sounds a little complicated but I'll make some pictures. I'm off to the Shack now. C'ya

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:26 pm

what switch do I need to get a 2 pole or 3 pole?? I am also wondering how to put it all together?? do I need to get a Circuit board or just use the bread board?? or just solder all the pieces to gether and stick it in a box??

Post by **iondrive** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:05 am

Hi again,

OK well I sort of changed my mind about the design for myself and went back to the original and modified it. You can see it in the other thread at the top of page 2.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 534#p71534

Some of this construction was a little difficult but it's good practice for me. After doing this, I think it might be better/easier/cheaper for you to just modify your inverter... no need to order parts, just buy/find one switch and wiring and it should work. So go ahead and describe your inverter or take a picture. If the inverter is not easily reachable, then you can make the wires going to the switch longer so the switch can be located better. If you want to stick with my previous idea using audio jacks, then I'll make a picture/diagram for you. Finally, if you want to toggle inversion using "The Clapper" then we'll have to get outside help.

another software approach?
There's a thread about coding for the usb hub. I have to find a link but it mentions a keystroke combination to reverse the sync. This would be nice but I/you need to read more in that thread to see if you can/want to try it. The author cautions that trying it might cause problems. Let's see if I can find it. Here it is:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... ode#p23830
It's 7 pages and I don't have time to read it right now. Maybe it's just for special homemade apps and OpenGL.

hah, the clapper.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:40 am

By the_nephilim at 2008-04-03

it has on the insiode mostly resistors from what I can see. but it has a black plastic fill making it impossible to work on anything inside the box.. If you want an inside pic let me know or If we can put the switch from outside I am all ears for that solution..a little schematic of the switch into the 3 pin din wires.. I can solder and stuff..

EDIT: I may have found a Solution to all these troubles.. I was reading that thread on ChrisJarams setup that race simulator and he stated ltr on that same setup using the nVidia emitter and using a Pair of Crystaleyes 2-3 3D Glasses the 3D Was Flawless..

So I was thinking maybe the new CE4 Would be similar and work for me.. I would take a real gamble here as he stated he was not 100% Sure it was going to work for others but I dont see why it will NOT.. HE had basically the same Projectors I have and he stated the Red Shift Ghosting was a sync issure from the Color wheel..

But with the CE3 Glasses it was Flawless 3D.. I am wondering thos will the CE4 Be the same as the 2 and 3 Models compatibility wise??

The_Nephilim wrote:yes that will Not work with my system

I did find this info looks like If I get a pair of CrystalEyes 2-3 it will SOLVE ALL my Troubles no need for a dongle or inverter or anything just those CE Glasses and the nVidia emitter it should work Flawlessly:

More test results from last night. I tried the nvidia emitter with my XR-10-x and CrystalEyes (I 5xCE3 and 3xCE2, and all work fine with the nvidia emitter so I think its safe to say this is CE-compatible but don't state me on that! . The results were FLAWLESS - zero ghosting, eyes the right way round and perfect timing right out of the box (no need for eDimensional VGA dongle- this is down to a conveinient set of coincidences in the timing. With the nvidia glasses there is a slight red ghosting (due to the colour wheel sync) which can be resolved with the hardware mentioned above..

That will be a costly taking as the glasses are at about 250 Bucks USD!! OUCH!!!!

Post by **iondrive** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:00 pm

Thinking outside the box (pun intended)

Hi neph,

OK well it looks like you have some choices but if you want to use the simplest hardware hack then you can hack into both the inverter cable and the nvidia cable to install an inverter bypass switch. However, there might be some issues that you're not be comfortable with:

- wires may be thin and delicate and you may not be comfortable working with them.
- this idea "marries" the two cables treating them as one. You may want to keep them separable.

If you decide to go ahead with this project, here's the diagram I made with Paint. It turned out nice. Yay Paint. Trivia: used gif which was 90x smaller than bmp image format. wow.

inverter-bypass.GIF

You'll see that on the inverter cable, you don't really cut the signal wire, just add a branch coming off of it. In the nvidia cable, you DO cut it and attach those two new ends to the switch. Just make sure the stereo-plug-side connects to the center terminal of the switch.

Meter this:
Before you start cutting, use your multimeter and make sure things are wired the way I think they are. Check your nvidia cable and make sure that the tip of the stereo plug connects to the center DIN pin on the other end. If you want to meter more, you can plug in both cables like normal, then disconnect the stereo plug from the usb emitter and use ED-Activator to activate the dongle. Check that the wired glasses are shuttering, then you can verify 5V DC on the ring of the stereo plug compared to the sleeve. You can even, switch to metering AC Volts and check for voltage on the tip compared to the sleeve. The signal is a 5V square wave so the meter should show something between 0 and 5. Obviously, be careful not to short anything together.

Finding the signal wires:
Basically, to find the right wires to cut or branch from, you have to cut the jacket of the cables, and then sort out the wires inside, then use a sewing needle to gently poke through the wire insulation. On the nvidia cable, meter from the stereo plug tip to the needle checking for continuity. This will tell you if you have the right wire, otherwise you have to needle another wire. Unfortunately, I have no better ideas about finding the right wire other than this trial and error guessing game method. At least there's only three wires. Electrical tape any big holes you make and don't make needle pricks too close to each other. Heat shrink can also be good on any wires you cut. On the inverter cable, meter from the needle to the middle pin on the DIN.

If you don't like this solution, I'm still willing to draw/describe another stereo-plug-using box idea.

How did another weekend sneak up on us? C'ya.

--- iondrive ---

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:34 pm

OK Looks OK I think I could manage this.. I do have 1 question is it the same switch you mentioned before?? Or is it another switch??

Which switch was it again??

Post by **iondrive** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:18 pm

well, the switch I used was the only SPDT Push on/off switch they had in-store, RadioShack part number 275-1555, but you might prefer something smaller or a rocker switch or a sliding switch. Choose whatever style you like as long as it's SPDT. You can just meter the terminals to make sure it works the way you think it does. The "problem" with this switch is that there's no way to tell if you're bypassing the inverter or not since the pushbutton looks exactly the same either way, there's no indicator. This is not really a problem since It's not important to know that info. You just hit it if you need to and don't worry about if it's bypassing or not, as long as it works. The other problems with this switch is that it's pretty tall so I had to make it stick out of the box as much as possible in order to fit the rest of it inside the 1 inch height and it barely fit then. I expect to post a photo on the other thread later tonight. If I wasn't making a footswitch, I think I would have chosen a rocker (possibly circuit-board mountable). A rocker should work nicely if you plan to just attach it to the cable. On the other hand, if you happen to have some switch lying around that is DPDT and you want to use that, then you could just use one-half of that and it should work fine. A DPDT should have six terminals arranged in two rows of three. Choose one of those rows (ignoring the other) and it should work like a SPDT switch. Just meter those three terminals using different switch positions and make sure it works like you think.

Wire length:
I forgot to mention the obvious, that you can choose longer wires for the magenta wires in the diagram so that you can have the switch positioned further away from the cables but I'm not sure of any max length limits.

Thin wire warning:
I just hope that the wires aren't so thin that poking them with a needle might break them.

married cables: a future divorce?
I mentioned that this wires the two cables together, but I just wanted to say that if you ever want to use either cable on it's own again and trash this setup, you can just cut that one wire that goes to the inverter cable, and then the inverter will work like it did before and the nvidia cable will also work like before as long as you keep the switch in the right position. One cut, and the cables will be divorced.

,

A little apology:
Sorry we couldn't get this working automatically without a switch. It's a little bit of a pain, but not too bad. I think it's tolerable. Any word on the two BLC tests in single projector mode? (sView and also setting StereoViewerType to 0x10 to see if the nvidia driver generates BLC) You might not need the switch if both things worked. Also, you could use old iZ3D drivers for some older games. I'm just not sure about 3-projector mode. Do you have iZ3D or Tridef drivers licenses?

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:52 pm

OK before we go any further is there anything that can be done with the Color Sync Issues I am getting now?? It is that Red shift Ghosting probally a color sync issue???

I did the StereoViewer to 0 and that did NOT do anything NO BLC at the bottom???I do NOT get any BLC with Single Projector??

I also just tried the IZ3D Drivers they woulf not start the emitter.. in the test image I saw a double image but was NOT able to get my glasses to come on???

I am going to play around with the Ghosting issue and see if it is still there with the Dongle removed and just using nVidias Emitter.. If it is still there that was because In one of thos threads they mentioned that by using the ED 3D Glasses the Ghosting shoulf NOT be there well it was but it was a whitish Ghosting slight but still there??

I am NOT sure why now all of a sudden I am getting this Ghosting issue like I get but I am really just considering getting NEW DLP Projectors..

But IF we can get a soltion for the Red shift Ghosting By the way I see it in BOTH Eyes.. I could possibly keep these Current DLP Projectors a bit longer..

EDIT: Once I take off the Dongle and just use the nVidia Emitter the Ghosting is Nearly Eliminated to about below 1%..So it is Definetely the ED Dongle Causing my Ghosting ,, So what can be done ??

Post by **iondrive** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:58 am

Good troubleshooting neph.

short answer: try it at 85 Hz (and 60 just to test it), also try setup without inverter in case inverter is the cause of some delay.

long answer:
Yes, most likely it's a color-sync issue and, just for fun, I'll describe a crazy way to prove it later but right now it looks like your easiest chance to do something about it is just try some different frequencies. You normally like 75 Hz, right? Try 60, 70 and 85 Hz. I'm not sure if ghosting will all be red but there's a chance it might. I found this web page with your PJ stats so I see it can go to 85 Hz.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sharp-XR-10XL.htm
Do those stats look right to you? I see it says the colorwheel has 4 segments, probably red, green, blue, and white. Anyway, you were probably thinking that you might need a time-delay circuit now and it seems like that should work but I need to think about this some more. It looks like it's time to say "dang it all". But before you do those freq changes, let me ask/tell you some things.

I expect that you see the red ghosting with the eDim glasses too. Is this true? If so, here's how I want you to test those freqs. Use the dongle with the Activator and the ED glasses but don't connect the nvidia adapter cable. Start some game in 3d that is easy to see the red ghosting on. Some game with alot of white like a winter scene should be good but whatever. Now you can look through either pair of glasses and compare them easily. From your previous tests, the ED glasses should show the ghosting while the nvidia don't. Now try that with each frequency that you care to try. Just remember to exit the game, de-Activate the dongle, change freq, re-Activate the dongle, start the game and get it running in the new freq, same as the desktop. Yes, it's a hassle but you might find it works at 85 Hz. Hmmm, you probably don't want to run at 70 or 60 Hz but try them anyway because it might help me figure out what's going on. Try, at least 60 and 85. I'm sort of expecting 60 to be good but if they all have the same red ghosting, then most likely, a delaying circuit will work. I think RAGEDemon had some schematic posted for such a circuit.

BLC
well, if sView doesn't work in single-projector BLC mode, then it looks like eDim didn't have that circuitry in their dongles back when you bought it. I guess we can forget about BLC.

circuitry delay?
Could the inverter be causing the sync-signal delay? I wouldn't think so but I wonder. In the specs for that inverter chip that I used, it says the propagation delay is like 10 nanoseconds while one frame at 75 Hz is 13,333,333 ns, so too small to cause color-sync ghosting which is why I didn't mention it. Too bad things can't be easier/nicer. I'm not sure where we'll go from here.

UPDATE: To check if the inverter is causing the red ghosting, take it out. Just connect the eDim dongle straight to the usb emitter and check 3d with the activator. If the inverter is the cause, your ghosting should be gone.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:22 pm

OK You got it Backwards I saw the Red Ghosting with the nVidia Glasses the most. and with the ED Glasses it looked like a White Ghosting..

Long Story Short It looks BEST at 3072x768 "70Hz" 32bit.. the Bit rate didnt do much but the frequency change the Higher I went the More NOTICABLE it was..

At 60 HZ the Glasses DO NOT Shutter.. At 85 with this Projector you get SEVERE Ghosting and not sure if you heard about this and this paticular model INK BLOTCH Problem at 85 HZ..it kinda looks like Ink Blots in some scenes and Psychadelic in the others but Long Story SHORT I Can only set the Hz to 70 or 75hz..

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=6229

At 70 HZ it seemed less of a ghosting effect..NO Matter what
I had hooked up the dongle with the inverter. it all looked the same So I do NOT Think it is the Dongle or the Inverter causing my Ghosting???

It is still there with the ED Glasses but the Ghosting is White in color and not too Noticable..but at higher HZ the RED Ghosting Gets REAL BAD with the nVidia glasses. I also been noticing some Bluish ghosting too..

70hz seems like the sweet spot and not to bad a hz to game in still with the DLP PRojectors it is NOT like a CRT the DLP can be lower and not notice the flicker as bad as the same hz on a CRT..

that link to the Projector is the EXACT Same Projectors I have GOOD Place that Projector Central. that is where I Browsed when I was looking to get my Projectors good info there on most Projectors..

I just want to put out there NOT sure if it is related but just thought I would mention it incase it is relevant..When I did that one Reg hack to change the timer delay after that is when I started experiencing ALL this Ghosting .. I never had so much Ghosting before near NONE at All but very minor and hardly noticable..

EDIT: I found this in the Chrisjarram thread and wanted to know what you thought of using Crystal Eyes 4 as a solution to my Ghosting sync issues:

Quote from Chris:
More test results from last night. I tried the nvidia emitter with my XR-10-x and CrystalEyes (I 5xCE3 and 3xCE2, and all work fine with the nvidia emitter so I think its safe to say this is CE-compatible but don't state me on that! . The results were FLAWLESS - zero ghosting, eyes the right way round and perfect timing right out of the box (no need for eDimensional VGA dongle- this is down to a conveinient set of coincidences in the timing. With the nvidia glasses there is a slight red ghosting (due to the colour wheel sync) which can be resolved with the hardware mentioned above..

Post by **iondrive** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:52 pm

Hi again,

I don't have time to write all I have to say so I'll just give you these questions for now.

Q1: is the ghosting the same on all projectors?

Q2: Are you using the projector's serial port?

Q3: is the projector's display mode now the same as always? (Standard, Presentation, Movie, Game, or sRGB). You've always used sRGB, right?

Q4: is the ghosting the same with both eyes when using the edim glasses?

Fixing the red ghost

I thought "AntiAliasing Gamma Correction was on" was the problem.
Q5: Was shutting this off just a partial fix?

Also, from another post:
"Once I take off the Dongle and just use the nVidia Emitter the Ghosting is Nearly Eliminated to about below 1%"
Q6: If you have the dongle VGA-connected but not emitter-connected, is the red ghosting still down to less than 1%?

Regarding the registry tweak:
I've thought some more about this and did some research and I don't see how it's possible to damage the projectors. I've recently figured out that, in the old nvidia 3d drivers, this setting inverts the DDC signal that toggles the glasses and it doesn't ever change the phase of that signal. It either inverts or doesn't invert and I've verified this with my own PJ. But 3dvision does not put out a DDC signal and also, you have the DDC pin 12 not connected so that your PJs look like CRTs. In short, I cannot figure out any way for signals on your VGA connector to break your PJs unless there was a voltage spike that reset your firmware??? But if all three PJs show the same ghosting, this is highly unlikely. I also think that reset firmware would likely show many other worse problems than what you have now.

The Crystal-Eyes:
These seem promising but still a bit of a gamble. I would save this option for a later possibility. Basically, if you could verify that the new ones are compatible with the old ones, then chances seem good that they will work. But things are still a little strange here so I would hold off on getting these for now. Does nvidia have both IR and RF emitters? Yours is IR, right?

more later or tomorrow.

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:14 pm

iondrive wrote:Hi again,

I don't have time to write all I have to say so I'll just give you these questions for now.

Q1: is the ghosting the same on all projectors?
1a. YES

Q2: Are you using the projector's serial port?
2a. NO the VGA Port

Q3: is the projector's display mode now the same as always? (Standard, Presentation, Movie, Game, or sRGB). You've always used sRGB, right?
3a. YES I use Game. NEVER used sRGB

Q4: is the ghosting the same with both eyes when using the edim glasses?
It is the same a whiteish ghosting

Fixing the red ghost

I thought "AntiAliasing Gamma Correction was on" was the problem.
Q5: Was shutting this off just a partial fix?
5a. It seemed a Partial Fixed

Also, from another post:
"Once I take off the Dongle and just use the nVidia Emitter the Ghosting is Nearly Eliminated to about below 1%"
Q6: If you have the dongle VGA-connected but not emitter-connected, is the red ghosting still down to less than 1%?
6a. NO SOrry the Ghosting is the same no matter what I hookup

Regarding the registry tweak:
I've thought some more about this and did some research and I don't see how it's possible to damage the projectors. I've recently figured out that, in the old nvidia 3d drivers, this setting inverts the DDC signal that toggles the glasses and it doesn't ever change the phase of that signal. It either inverts or doesn't invert and I've verified this with my own PJ. But 3dvision does not put out a DDC signal and also, you have the DDC pin 12 not connected so that your PJs look like CRTs. In short, I cannot figure out any way for signals on your VGA connector to break your PJs unless there was a voltage spike that reset your firmware??? But if all three PJs show the same ghosting, this is highly unlikely. I also think that reset firmware would likely show many other worse problems than what you have now.

EDIT: I do NOT have the Pin taken out for this to work like a CRT. I use the Matrox TH2Go and that tricks the drivers to thniking it is an analog signal.. Also I see the Ghosting in ALL 3 Projectors but it is near minimal but and usually shows if there are RED colors or around Flames or lights..

The Crystal-Eyes:
These seem promising but still a bit of a gamble. I would save this option for a later possibility. Basically, if you could verify that the new ones are compatible with the old ones, then chances seem good that they will work. But things are still a little strange here so I would hold off on getting these for now. Does nvidia have both IR and RF emitters? Yours is IR, right?

Yes nVidia is IR

more later or tomorrow.

OK I put my answers in the above Quote in Bold type.. Also I thought I was getting Minimal Ghosting when the Dongle was off but further testing it looks like it is the same No Matter what is hooked up..

Also the Ghosting now is Blinking ON and OFF??? One second I see it and the other second it dissappears?? IT is IN BOTH Eyes too..

EDIT: I am going to be getting the Acer X1261P Projectors for now. so I am going to just live with how it is which really is NOT that bad but in some views kinda annoying..

I really appreciate your help and Hope to see you around on the Forums this has been both entertaining and a good learning experience ..

Hopefully the new Projectors will be Good and NO more Problems like this..I do Need to get a Vid card and a PSU before I can get the Projectors..

Post by **iondrive** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:24 am

OK, thanks for all that. I researched the TH2Go and DH2Go. They are awesome ideas and that's why your PJs are in sync with each other. Multiple monitors from one or two graphics cards is normally hard to sync like that. Anyway, moving on to troubleshooting mode...

Something is delaying your signals. Is it the PJs, the TH2Go or is something wrong with the USB emitter?

the blinking red ghost:
always compare the edim glasses to the nvidia glasses. If the blinking is only in the nvidia glasses but not the edim, then suspect the fault at the USB emitter. Do you happen to have a second 3dvision kit or another emitter?

2 things to test

Test 1: move edim dongle to output of TH2Go
I'm guessing that you probably have the edim dongle between the computer and the TH2Go. Try putting the dongle on one of the outputs of the TH2Go. It should not matter which one but choose the right side since it's very possible that you will get no video out of the dongle. This is because it gets power (5V) from pin 9 of the graphics card but many VGA devices and cables don't send that power through to their output for some reason and so your dongle will have no power. Use an eDim power adapter if you have it. If this works, then test with sView using edim glasses (backwards). One way to avoid this test is to just use a multimeter on the output VGA port of the TH2Go. Look for voltage between pin 9 and ground or pin 10. Oh, better yet, just look at the end of the VGA cable where it plugs into your TH2Go. If it's missing pin 9, then you can forget this test unless you have that power adapter.

Analyzing results of test 1:
If ghosting on edim glasses is gone or different, then TH2Go is a source of signal delay.
If there is still ghosting, then PJ is the source of signal delay (other than inversion).
It's possible both things are sources of delay.

Test 2: test projector without TH2Go
This test is a little more of a hassle but it will be nice to confirm that your PJ is not breaking. Hook up 1 PJ to the edim dongle and that to your graphics card. It's allright if the computer recognizes it as a non-CRT. Test with sView and the edim glasses. Hopefully ghosting will be close to 0 with this setup. I thought that I read somewhere that you had a DVI-VGA adapter in which you removed pin 12? If so, then you can use that now and try the nvida glasses too with this setup.

And finally a humorous solution for dyslexics: a mirror image trick

I have to mention this little idea before I forget. This trick will work with a limited number of games that don't depend on you reading text and you must be able to remap the controls. I tested this and it works but it can be awkward. The trick is.... use the mirror image function on your projector. This will invert the parallax shift of each eye so that things look non-inverted. This might be good for a racing game where the HUD uses dials instead of numbers except that the race course will seem mirror imaged... right turns in the road are now left turns and visa versa. You just need to remap the control keys swapping left and right. Oh, I guess the steering wheel would be on the wrong side too. Anyway, it was just a cool idea that I wanted to mention. Too bad it's not good for most games. I guess you could use this with a DLP tv too if you look at the tv through its reflection in a mirror that you set up. Hmmm, if it's a directX9 game, you should be able to use a shader to toggle the mirroring off and on so you can read the menu screens. Then when you're in-game, you can toggle the mirror image mode. Yay, another idea to throw on the scrap-pile of discarded solutions.

Oh wait, could there be a shader that mirror images the world but not the HUD? Hmmm, I think there's a chance of that being true but I just don't know enough about it.

Oh, hey, next time you see that white ghosting on a red background, turn the glasses upside-down. Hopefully this will turn it into the same red ghosting as on the nvidia glasses. Verify this if you can.

That's all for now.

--- iondrive ---

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Test 1: THIS is Impossible?? I tried it got no signal to screen?

Test 2: YES NO Ghosting with the ED Glasses. I put on the Vision Glasses and the ghosting was there..I do not have any pins removed with Current setup..but nVidia 3D Vision worked still but got the RED Ghosting..

Test3: No, it goes away the White Ghosting when I reverse the ED Glasses on a Red Backround..???

EDIT: I never even thought the Emitter could be going bad?? I looked and they do NOT sell them individually..I will look around on ebay tho maybe Ill find just the Emitter??

I just Bought a new 3D Vision kit, should be here in a week.. will let you know then. hopefully this old emitter is on the fritz. I never noticed so much ghosting before?? and it is there even with just the emitter hooked up so it has to be the emitter..

Post by **iondrive** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:13 am

OK. Thanks for doing all that. Test 1 didn't work because the dongle had no power from pin 9 like it needs. That setup would need a special power adapter but it looks like you don't need to set things up that way after all since it looks like ghosting is the same with or without the TH2Go. If so, then it's not a significant source of signal delay and you can set it up like before.

So all these things seem to have no effect on the red ghosting, correct?
Edim dongle - I expect this to not introduce any delay
TH2GO - I thought this might but from your test, it looks like not
Projectors - same as above
inverter - same as above

So I think all that's left is the emitter but that might be some weird software glitch so don't buy a new one just yet. After all this, sorry to resort to such a basic idea but I think it's time to re-install some older drivers. Let's try to get back to the point where it was last working good. I know you installed new drivers recently but just go back to the old ones and see if it helps. But before you do, I would like you to write down some registry entries so you can compare them before and after the driver re-installation. I don't know if you want to use any kind of nvidia driver "cleaner" between the uninstall and the reinstall. I think that's optional but do it if you know how. Here's the registry entries I would like you to check before and after:

under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D
GlassesSwitchDelay - expect 0
ShowAllViewerTypes - should not be important, but out of curiosity
StereoCompatibility - probably 0, don't know much about this
StereoViewer - probably 1
StereoViewerType - probably 1

And then, look under
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\NvStUSB\Parameters

Q7: do you have a few entries there or alot?
Why look there? Well I downloaded a version of the usb driver and looked into the nvstusb.inf file and it looks like that's where certified projector properties are. I expect these properties to descibe timing info for each of these projectors so that 3dvision can adjust it's shutterglass timing to match the individual timing characteristics of each certified projector. I wonder if your machine is using this data wrong somehow.

I don't know if you normally unplug your emitter during a reinstall but I think you probably should. We're basically trying to reset/reinitialize the emitter in case some bad software got in there somehow. I don't really know if it has it's own firmware.

Well I hope this works. I've got my fingers crossed.

Oh hey, before uninstalling, you could try just unplugging and replugging in the usb emitter.

--- iondrive ---

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:45 pm

here are the entries for the 275.33 drivers:

glasses delay = 0
show all viewer = 1
Stereo Compatibility=NO Entry
Stereo Viewer = NO Entry
Stereo Viewer type = 1

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\NvStUSB\Parameters = Alot of entries looked like Projector monitor entries..

296.10 entries:

glasses delay = 0
show all viewer = 1
stereo compatibility = no entry
Stereo viewer = no entry
stereo viewer type = 2147483649

Post by **iondrive** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:07 am

ok well if you are still cursed by the red ghost, you can still try one more thing that I discovered 20 minutes ago while screwing around with my old Simuleyes glasses playing Rise of the Triad, slipstream5000 and whiplash in 3d using WLC in a dosbox with vsync. That accomplishment is a long awaited milestone for me, but anyway it turns out that low voltage can cause a delay in how quickly the shutters turn black and that would cause red ghosting on a DLP device if the first color on the wheel was red which is true in my case and probably yours too. Give your glasses a good charge and try them then. I actually doubt that this is the problem since you've tried new glasses already. If we're still looking for the problem, then just maybe the emitter is underpowered. Might as well unplug all non-essential usb gear as well as the edim dongle and try it then. After thinking some more about the emitter, I think it's a dumb unit that should not be able to cause a delay but I have to admit that I really don't know. When you see the red flashing, try your other nvidia glasses.

Q8: How do the glasses usually behave when the batteries are low?
Q9: Can you change the batteries in the glasses?

Registry settings above show no surprises.
stereo viewer type = 2147483649 translates to 80000001 hex which tells me it was set for anaglyph mode when you checked it. If you don't mind, check that one again after you get the glasses working and see if it's a "1" like I expect. Missing entries are probably not important since they are from old school drivers. Regarding NvStUSB\Parameters for various projectors, I should have known they would all be there after taking a closer look at nvstusb.inf. If I knew more about everything, then we might be able to spoof your displayID to one of those projectors as long as the timing specs match. I don't think I'll be able to go down that road.

SLI:
It's an awesome setup you've got there and I think that's about as good as it gets because, although I've never done SLI, I would expect small timing differences between the projectors unless you have some trick up your sleeve like an external sync pulse input or something. I've tried multimon stereo before and it's hard to get them in perfect vertical sync and even then, one monitor can be one frame behind. Anyway, good luck as always.

--- iondrive ---

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:16 am

Hi, Well I think when the Battery is low it gets worse..
I can change the battery in the Old pair I am NOT going to mess with the new pair yet..

I am Running a Single card currently and using the TH2Go unit to get the 3 screens working.. I am going to get SLI within a week after I buy the new card and PSU..

EDIT: That Stereo Viewer Type is NOW 1..Also Do you kniow how to put in a new INF File in for the Projector??

I just got the new Emitter that was NOT the Problem so my OLD Emitter is Fine??? Wierdness.. Leaning towards some new projectors now???

Post by **iondrive** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:31 am

HEY!!! This should help!

EDIT: oh dang, maybe not since I was testing this on a CRT. It minimizes the amount of ghosting on the top of the screen which should translate into red ghosting on a DLP but the technologies may be different enough that this logic might not hold in this case. Just try it and see.

Remember using your old CRT? You could move the image up and down using the buttons on the CRT but you could also find a software way to do that using your video card's control panel. Do that now and shift the image as far down as possible. I'm not sure how the PJs will react to this. They might flicker black for a second as they adjust to the new settings or you might have to readjust the PJ image using it's buttons. Anyway, once you slide the image down all the way, I'm pretty confident you will have reduced red ghosting. I know this doesn't explain the flickering ghosting that you reported but I still think it should help. I've also played with video signal timings including vertical front-porch and back-porch but they didn't seem to help much. That was last year so maybe I'll retest since I know a little more now. Although in this case, I feel more like Homer Simpson talking to his brain... "C'mon brain, think of something".

Have you decided what to do with your extra emitter/kit? Can you return it? Sorry I couldn't troubleshoot faster. I'll let you know if I'm interested in buying it from you but I wasn't really planning on getting one anytime soon.

INF file entry:
in short, not really. I've edited some nvidia driver files in order to install stereo drivers on my laptop after some hints from laptopvideo2go.com but things are a little different and unfamiliar here. It looks like each PJ has it's own code so you would need to find the correct code for the TH2Go. I would suspect its in some reading of hardware ID but I don't think I want to go in that direction since I don't have the right hardware to investigate. Maybe someone else has "the right stuff". It seems like we should be able to get things working without this. I just mentioned it to possibly give you or someone else another line of attack. In the old days before monitor ID, you could just reinstall your CRT as any other CRT and Windows would take your word on it. I'm not sure if that would work in this case and it seems a little risky to me since we don't know what all those numbers mean. Anyway, hopefully the first paragraph above will condemn the red ghost to the depths of heck.

--- iondrive ---

PS: here's the link to RAGEDemon's circuit but I'm unsure how good it is right now. My sense is that adjusting the variable resistors might be a little touchy but once they're set, you shouldn't need to adjust them anymore although you would still need that inverter bypass switch. The emitter in the circuit needs to be swapped out for some other output plug/jack in your case.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=25

Post by **The_Nephilim** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:11 pm

Well If I understand what you wanted me too do I think I did and it did nothing?? There is a way inside nVidias CP to move the screen position. I moved down as far as I could go and tested the 3D Still ghosting???

I might just resell the nVidia 3d Vsion kit on ebay?? Let me know if you want it I can sell it too you. I only took out the Emitter to test and charged the glasses.. If you want it let me know..I paid $100.00 USD for it so make me an offer if you want it..