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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:39 pm
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Well, I went to CES, and checked out the sony, vuzix, and Silicon Micro Display systems.

I finally got some hands on time with some of these displays and wanted to share my impressions.

VUZIX
The 1200 from Vuzix, as others have already said has the lowest resolution of all of them, but still a good image. Actually, if it had text that was readily readable, and had an HDMI interface, I would pick one up today. The form factor is excellent. However, the upcomming setup from vuzix, is looking pretty damn awesome.

Upcomming: With a standard glasses setup, and a holographic image put in place, it is a very cool augmented reality setup. Unfortunately, at the booth you were not able to actually try on the glasses, but you were able to look through a single lense with the elecronics attached as a prototype style system... and it's what you want. Let me be clear, Vuzix gets it, they know what people want when it comes to HMD's, but its a job building it.

Though I also was not able to see any text except a rotating graphic that was good resolution, but extremely luminesant almost glowing. So, I am not sure if that was the display or the video to be honest.

So if they can get the image to be normalized (non glowing), the form factor already looks perfect, the price is said to be sub 1k, and resolution looked good - they said 720p, has built in AR, and vuzix has been consistently putting out consumer level devices for a while now, so there is something to look forward to here for sure, and if they nail it, this is what you will want.

SONY HMZ-T1
There were two demo units, that had lines of eight people a piece at them, and everyone was impressed. At 720p. The resolution is there. Text is readable and the display looks exectly like you had a computer monitor infront of your head, and while that may not sound utterly impressive, it is. Finally there is a unit you can buy that will not utterly disappoint due to resolution. The displays were MOUNTED, so you did not get a sense of the weight of the unit. So there is no headtracking to comment on, just the display, and it was extremely good. It does 3d, and does it well. Downside, Its bulky. I cannot say how bulky because it was mounted, I could not "try it on", but unlike vuzix's upcomming display unit, this is a unit that will say, "Yes I have a monitor on my face. But its a damn stylish one and F you if you have anything to say about it, because what you don't get is... its awesome!"

Silicon Micro Display.
While these guys were the new kids on the block, they were extremely excited to get product out and in peoples hands. At a whopping 1080p resolution, they had a crystal clear display. 3D Toy Story that was absurdly clear. They pulled up some webpages, text was easily legible. This and the 1200 from vuzix were the only displays I could try on, so I can compare to the ST1080 to the 1200, and the st1080 is again, like sony's model... bulky. With the back of the head tie, it would be more comfortable. Without it, it felt like it would fall off if used vigorously. Silicon Micro, showed an Augmented reality unit, that was printed from a 3d printer, just to demo. It was great as well. The eye adjustments were easy to use and it was a clean interface.

Downsides: Bulky, and unknown company. While the products they showed by far had the best specifications, who knows if they will be here in a week.

To be honest, I have not seen the holy grail. A HMD, with 1080p like resolution with a very wide field of view, head tracking, a small formfactor, AR, or non AR capability, that is wirelessly able to connect to a phone or other device for video and audio, costs $20-$200, and has support from a company I can be confident in.

BUT, I did see one company that does get the form factor and headtracking. Another that gets the resolution, and has AR; another that has the resolution and by a company I can be confident in.

Is it good enough? For now, I will buy the sony. As others get better, and if vuzix can pull it off... I will buy that too. But for the resolution, the SMD device is the best by far. There still is no clear answer.

Let me know what you guys think.

-Robert


Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:13 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:06 pm
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Thank you for the CES feedback. I just received my Sony's and it looks like I will be keeping them.


Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:46 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Thanks for this.

One question, do you recall how large the image looked on the ST1080? Was it bigger or smaller than the Sony?

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Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:19 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Rob, are you still at CES? If so, look at the Lumus booth (14834), they have amazing stuff.


Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:21 pm
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Certif-Eyable!

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Good info, thanks robert135!


Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:32 pm
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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I'm glad SMD is showing a functional ST1080. I hope to see videos, pictures, and more reviews soon. I'm surprised to hear the ST1080 is bulky. The images I've seen of it make it seem small. Has it been redesigned? Is it now adjustable? Regardless, my purchase of the ST1080 is already guaranteed, since it's the only 1920x1080 comsumer HMD. I already have an HMZ-T1, which I'd like to keep, for the slightly higher FOV and superior OLED color, but may sell. The ST1080 will allow me to finally fulfill my dream of completely eliminating all use of physical monitors.


Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:31 am
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Certif-Eyable!

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Any info on possible ST1080 pricing?
It sounds the best so far spec wise, and as long as its no heavier than the HMZ-T1, sounds great!


Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:07 am
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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The ST1080 price was announced before CES as $800. I just want to know the release date. I don't want to have to wait until late this year. It should come out in Q1 or Q2. And where are the reviews!? Today's the last day of CES, and this is the most revolutionary product on display!


Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:46 am
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Certif-Eyable!

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Sounds great. Seems a bit unlikely though that a small company could make and sell a HMD with higher resolution than Sony, for less.
I'll be really happy if it comes out at that price point!


Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:25 am
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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Less? The Sony is $800 as well. The difference is that SMD uses LCoS microdisplays, while Sony uses OLED microdisplays, which I don't think exist yet in 1080p. 1280x1024 OLED microdisplays cost $6000, according to Palmer. 1080p LCoS microdisplays were first announced in 2006. SMD also has 4K microdisplays, but haven't released any information on pricing or availability. They are even developing 8K microdisplays.


Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:55 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I did not make it by the lumus booth, though now that you mention it, I really wish I had.

I am from Vegas, so I just got approval to boogy back over there and check out the lumus booth, and there is another over at the venetian of a 3d printer that prints FOOD... that I have to see.

Honestly there was a ton of cool stuff at CES, but more than anything else in the show the most jaw dropping impressive, slap your forehead, say DUH!, punch yourself for not thinking of it, and cry that it took a 100 years + for someone to come up with the idea... was a type of lightbulb from the show.

Seriously, I know jack about marketing but when I saw it, I was like... oh my god.... that is a 2 billion dollar+ light bulb.

Its certainly not an item I walked into the show looking for... but damn it was cool.


Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:38 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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The SMD headset, and bulky.... Is it bulkier than vuzix glasses.. yes.

Is it bulkier than the sony HMD... No. They said it clocks in at 140 grams. So take that for what you will.

Like I said though... with the back of the head strap... it will be more comfortable... that way all the weight is not forward on your nose.

But honestly, the display was fantastic. it looked like a 22 inch monitor 2 feet from your face. But that is what I work on every day, so it was not worse than my everyday experience now... which means it can only get better.

Heading back to CES for lumus, and that 3d printer... will check back in after that.


Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:42 pm
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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So glad someone actually used the ST1080. Lots of questions... 22" monitor? That does not sound impressive. How do you think the image size compares to the Sony, then? Is the FOV drop noticeable? ST1080 is 45 diagonal, HMZ is 51 diagonal. And what about the picture quality of the LCoS vs. the Sony's OLED? I have an HMZ and I think it looks much bigger than 22", although I've noticed that it looks like a 27" when I put it on while sitting in front of my 27", then seems alot bigger when I put it on lying in bed, looking at the high ceiling. Please take some pictures if you can! How many people were at the SMD booth? You are the only person on the whole internet I've found to've mentioned the ST1080 at all. Did you ask about a possible release window? And did they say anything about their 4K microdisplays? Also, what's this wonder lightbulb? I'm curious.


Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:08 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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What can you tell us about FOV... does the wider FOV (about 6 degrees i believe) on the Sony over the ST1080 make a significant immersion difference ?

What about world awareness? Can you look down "under" the Sony to see a keyboard? What about the 10% view through on the ST1080, is it enough to see a glowing keyboard in the dark?

Thanks for all the info.

CQ


Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:11 pm
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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You can easily look down on the Sony to see the keyboard, without the light blockers. With the light blockers, it is still possible, but not as easy.


Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:27 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Thanks, thats helpful! Sill hoping to get info on perceived FOV differences.

One last Sony question. Is anyone here using it with a head tracker like a TrackIR? How awkward is it to swivel your head? Does the sony stay in place reasonably well under these circumstances?


Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:39 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Ok ...lumus

They are a technology company that licenses Technologies. They do not make products. However when they say save the best for last that's what happened it seems. Their ar tech is fantastic with off board electronics. So the demo glasses were just perfectly comfortable
The display was fantastic ar. Large gov on the demo good 3d. Nice people. At 720p the display was great and if someone would produce a product with it, it would give vuzix a run for its money

Smd is like a mile walk so I doubt I will get back there.


Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:20 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Seems to me that, unless you figure you are shopping for more then a year out, we really need to draw a distinction between those producing product and those either predicting future product or trying to license tech.

I dont trust the street cost quotes of anyone trying to license tech, since they don't actually have to live up to it.

Similarly the new Vuzix tech sounds great but it seems way too early to predict that they will be able to make a consumer priced version any time soon.

I'm on the edge but, as they were showing product, Im willing to believe that the ST1080 will be out this year.

So it seems to me that, today, the real contenders are the Wrap1200, the HMZ-T1 and the St1080.

The rest are still glints in the makers' eyes....


Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:55 pm
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Edit: ignore this :twisted:


Last edited by WiredEarp on Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:00 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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I had a chance to try the following:

Epson Moverio BT-100
Sensics SmartGoggles and Z-Sight
All the Vuzix stuff
Sony HMZ-T1 (Yes, I own one anyways)
SiliconMicroDisplay ST1080, and the 4k prototype
Lumus DK-32 and PD-18, and a helmet mounted prototype
"Ultra TV viewer glasses" from some Chinese OEM (Terrible)
SpatialView 3DeeSlide (Not an HMD, but relevant to VR)

I saw a whole bunch of other stuff, but that is what most people here care about. Will try to have reviews up tomorrow!


Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:43 am
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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"And the 4K prototype." MOST interesting, indeed! Now we know they really have made working 4K microdisplays! I would like to know about pricing and release plans. A 2K monitor is $1500+. I'd pay $2000-$2500 for a 4K HMD. That would be the ultimate desktop replacement! But hopefully they can release it for $1000-$1500.


Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:12 am
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Cross Eyed!
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PalmerTech wrote:
I had a chance to try the following:

Epson Moverio BT-100
Sensics SmartGoggles and Z-Sight
All the Vuzix stuff
Sony HMZ-T1 (Yes, I own one anyways)
SiliconMicroDisplay ST1080, and the 4k prototype
Lumus DK-32 and PD-18, and a helmet mounted prototype
"Ultra TV viewer glasses" from some Chinese OEM (Terrible)
SpatialView 3DeeSlide (Not an HMD, but relevant to VR)

I saw a whole bunch of other stuff, but that is what most people here care about. Will try to have reviews up tomorrow!


Tomorrow??? How about now?!! We're all waiting on pins and needles here! LOL

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Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:26 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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+1 :)

I am particularly interested in the differences in weight, fit and FOV and how much difference the numbers really make in practice for an immersive, head tracked application that requires keyboard view.


Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:03 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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4K microdisplay sounds cool, but we can barely power a 1080P display in 3D yet, lets not get ahead of ourselves.

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Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:42 pm
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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cybereality wrote:
4K microdisplay sounds cool, but we can barely power a 1080P display in 3D yet, lets not get ahead of ourselves.

I would use it as a 2D desktop replacement, and we can already power up to 24MP - Eyefinity 6 cards can go up to 7680x3200. 4K is 9MP, so 4K3D would be 18MP, well below Eyefinity's 24MP. That's on a single card. Two could probably even be made to support 8K2D - 33MP (but not 8K3D - 66MP!).


Last edited by Synexious on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:51 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Yes, but Surround/Eyefinity are not powering all those displays with a single port/wire. Each monitor has its own plug, and is already basically maxing out what can be done with current formats. Even DisplayPort probably will have trouble doing this. For example, look at this demo ( http://www.anandtech.com/show/5420/amds ... mos-at-ces ), AMD needed to use 2 DP ports just to power a single 4K 2D monitor. So to do 3D you would need maybe 4 ports. I guess thats possible, but its very proprietary in nature and not really where the industry should be heading.

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Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:03 pm
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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I see. But isn't it more significant that the graphical processing power is already here? Increasing cable bandwidth seems less difficult... but I don't think multiple cables on a monitor would be much more niche than Eyefinity; in fact, they'd be perfect for each other.


Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:08 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I was able to get back to the SMD display, and you were right, the FOV is wider than I initially remembered. It was more like 32 inch monitor from 2 feet. It fills your primary field of vision. You still can see the sides and above and under the display, but it is very good.

I also spoke a bit with Paul, of SMD, about his technology VS Lumus's (since I had just come from there). He said Lumus uses waveguides so you start a signal (wave) on the side of the display, and some of the wave at various distances is refracted (reflected) into your eye. So the brightness of the system suffers. But it's distinct advantage is the near perfect form factor that you can make the glasses have.

What I remember from the Lumus AR display is that as you are looking through the display if what you were looking at in the background was lets say white, or very bright, the image itself was extremely dim, due to the extremely low contrast between the displayed image and the background. However, if I looked at any other surface, say the floor. It had a high enough contrast to easily see the image.

I am unsure if this is a problem with the tech, or just an implementation detail. I had asked "What if you wanted to play just a game and not worry about the whole AR thing?", "Then it would be pretty easy to put on some active shutter lenses in front of their wave guide lenses, to make for true contrast and a good black."

One extremely cool detail of the Lumus demo was that since I wear glasses, I was able to take off my glasses, and they had a few prescription drop in lenses (the drop ins attached via a magnet at the center), that they just attached directly before the display. So I was able to take off my regular glasses, and just use the Lumus with the prescription drop ins. It was very well done.


Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:24 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Wave guide technology is what Vuzix licensed from Nokia for their next gen.

How did the SMD FOV compare to the Sony? Was there a noticeable immersion difference? How bulky was the unit, is there a picture somewhere (or could you post one?)

Right now Im leaning strongly towards the SMD for my application, which is inside of the cockpit I've been building. (Nice and dark ;) )


Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:21 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Here is Paul of SMD wearing his display system.


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Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:27 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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the vuzix next gen unit, in its display case from the convention. also below the
lumus, demo unit, notice the size, the off board electronics in at the top of the image, and the prescription glasses inserts on the right.


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Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:34 am
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Certif-Eyed!

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Wouldn't it be easy to attach a cover behind the glasses to enhance contrast?

Waiting for Palmers review though, i'm already in hitting F5 mode :lol:


Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:34 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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You will have to forgive the quality of these images, I took a bad video with a shaky hand. So I grabbed some stills from the video for the Vuzix AR display, so you can see sort of what I saw. Its not as clear as being there by far, but you can get the general idea.

The vuzix logo fades in and then gets super bright, as you can see in the images below.


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Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:37 am
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robert135 wrote:
I was able to get back to the SMD display, and you were right, the FOV is wider than I initially remembered. It was more like 32 inch monitor from 2 feet. It fills your primary field of vision. You still can see the sides and above and under the display, but it is very good.


i consider it to be better than sony's [can settle for lesser FOV] so i have not yet pre-ordered sony
glad that u had the chance to get the demo of st1080....

1) was it so comforting that it did not require IPD/focus adj. at all ?

2)did the screens of st1080 have 'wide' viewing angles [H/V] ?

3)was the 4k prototype the same as st1080 in it's form ?



plz reply


Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:34 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Thanks for the pictures they are very helpful!


Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:33 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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@robert135: Awesome work man!

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Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:44 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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ancjob wrote:

i consider it to be better than sony's [can settle for lesser FOV] so i have not yet pre-ordered sony
glad that u had the chance to get the demo of st1080....

1) was it so comforting that it did not require IPD/focus adj. at all ?

2)did the screens of st1080 have 'wide' viewing angles [H/V] ?

3)was the 4k prototype the same as st1080 in it's form ?

plz reply


1) They have an eye adjustment capability on them. They have to. Different peoples heads are shaped differently. It was easy to use and once done, its done.

2) Not sure I understand the question. It is mounted to your face, so the viewing angle is constant.

3) yes, it was, just about the same.


Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:44 pm
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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Did they say anything about pricing and availability of the 4K model?


Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:49 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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They said they still need time to work on it, production of the 4k displays is very low yield at this point.


Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:52 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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robert135 wrote:
ancjob wrote:


2)did the screens of st1080 have 'wide' viewing angles [H/V] ?




2) Not sure I understand the question. It is mounted to your face, so the viewing angle is constant.


I think he's asking about FOV. My understanding is that its about 6 degrees narrower then the Sony but that it still does a good job of immersing you, yes?


Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:31 pm
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