For me it is uncomfortable to use an HMD as a desktop because even at low FOV's it is unnatural to use my eyes instead of my head to view the edges of the screen. Using my eye muscles that much is very tiring after a short while. Maybe you can build up muscle endurance over time and get used to it, but I constantly find myself turning my head to try and focus on different parts of the screen.

It seems like the best way to present a desktop with an HMD is as a projection onto a rectangle in virtual space. That way you can use your head motion just as you normally would to focus on details and avoid the unnatural eye movement. This would also reduce the amount of resolution you need to represent detail because just like in the real-world you can just move your head closer to the region of interest. Your "virtual" screen can be as high a resolution as your graphics memory can handle - but projected and down-sampled onto your low resolution HMD screens. If you need to resolve tiny objects on screen you can just tilt your head and move in a couple inches closer and achieve a 1:1 or better resolution between your HMD screens and the virtual pixels within the view frustum.

Seems like a no-brainer. Is there any software currently out there that can do this type of desktop projection? If not, maybe I'll put it on my ridiculously long TODO list.


Edit: Another way to describe this is that people need high resolutions and multiple monitors so that every piece of the physical screen can be examined closely (using mainly head motions) - but you rarely "take in" all of that resolution as a whole. I have two large high resolution monitors sitting in front of me now, but you know what? I am sitting forward in my chair and focusing at a relatively small region of just one of them while I type. All the rest of the resolution to the sides is wasted at this moment. An HMD (with headtracker) can use the same mechanics but more efficiently because it only has to render what you are looking at. It doesn't have to waste resolution in your peripheral like your monitors do.

I never considered that. I've never used an HMD. I've been waiting years for an affordable HD HMD. I have a 27" 1920x1080 primary monitor and a 24" 1680x1050 monitor in portrait to the left. I barely use my head on the primary monitor, but of course I turn my head to look over at the secondary monitor. I didn't consider how this would work in an HMD. How does Sensics do it? They tile up to twelve displays per eye. Could a triple desktop work, then, on an HMD?



As soon as I read the first part of your post, I thought of headtracking. Is that what you mean? Having a virtual screen larger than the HMD can display, and panning around it with a headtracker?

Yes, that's a good concise way to put it. You want your wall sized display or your super high resolution flexible wrap around screen - just project one into virtual space.

You can evaluate that by testing with the Viewing Distance Calculator :
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/view ... lator.html

Given the parameters presented on the Sony website for the HMZ-T1 (750" screen width seen from 65 feet away), it gives :
- FOV : 51.4°
- Maximum Viewing Distance for HDTV(Fully resolved 1080i; 1920 x 1080) : 112.5 feet

At the specified 65 feet distance you'll be able to see individual pixels if you have a 20/20 vision, even if the resolution of this HMD was 1080p.

It's also the case for the ST1080 (100" at 10 feet) :
- FOV : 45.2°
- Maximum Viewing Distance for HDTV(Fully resolved 1080i; 1920 x 1080) : 15 feet

The visual acuity for someone with 20/20 vision corresponds to an angle of 1 arc minute (1/60°) between two points. For a 51° FOV, you would need a display with a width of approx. 3060 pixels, for a 45° FOV you would need approx. 2700 pixels and approx. 2100 pixels for 35°. We are still quite far from it, and we have even more sensibility to lines than points, so the resolution should even be higher.

Good to know. Your knowledge of optics exceeds that of most here, Fredz. I've heard of the arc minute before, but I still don't understand why "minute" is used. Isn't that a measure of time? SMD says they have a 0.82" 4K microdisplay and are working on 8K.

@Fredz: Yes I agree that there are certainly quantitative and very noticeable differences in current resolution formats and a long way to go with the technology. But how much do those resolution differences improve the VR experience? I would argue that just like rendering technology, resolution improvements are moving into a state of diminishing returns in the context of VR. Ask yourself this. Given the current state of the art consumer hardware (HMZ-T1) - if you could choose just one of the following improvements, which would you choose?

- doubling the number of rendered polygons
- doubling the resolution
- doubling the FOV

Exactly brantlew. Doubling the FOV is the biggest, most immersive improvement out of those.

We were playing VR in high FOV in 320x200 resolution back in the Virtuality days. Sure it was like playing half blind, but it was still more immersive than 800x600 @ 40 degrees. I'd be happy with a lower resolution, higher FOV HMD personally.

regd ST1080 - i am concerned abt one aspect - the viewing-angles [H&V] of their LCoS screens ....

on their site they say " VAN-mode LC technology for superior contrast and viewing angle"

i tried to get more info but unfortunately i'd have to pay to d/l information

Can anybody tell me "VAN-mode LC technology" does it result in higher contrast & viewing-angles[H&V] which their website claims.....

i am afraid if this is not gonna be another 1080p 'Headplay'........

any ideas ?

It depends, for immersion the FOV seems to be the most important factor, Eric Howlett (inventor of LEEP optics) said that 90° was the minimum to feel immersed in a virtual world and to avoid the tunnel effect. He also said that a high FOV in mono was more important than a low FOV in stereo to really feel immersed.

To have the feeling of seeing a "real" world I think the resolution is the most important factor though. When I watch a TV program (particularly sport events) in 1080p HD I really have a better sense of "being there" than with SD (576p where I live).

Anyway at this time it seems impossible to have high FOVs in consumer HMDs, so the better solution for now would probably be to augment resolution.

As for the number of polygons, it's probably not the best indicator for visual realism but it's still progressing at a good pace with no sign of halting in a near future. See here for an interesting post about the evolution of the polycount of characters in 3D games from 1996 to 2011 :
http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/show ... hp?t=23520

I'm not particularly knowledgeable in this field, I'm only very interested in it and I've read a lot. Concerning the "minute" term I guess it's exactly the same than for time, 1 minute is 1/60th of an hour and 1 arc minute is 1/60th of a degree.

Good to know, in an old paper about the ideal HMD the authors wanted a 4000x4000 resolution, seems we may be able to see that in the future.

I don't think the number of polygons has really been a deciding factor of the realism for quite some time. The more important things like bump/normal/diffuse/specular maps and the ability of the graphics processor to stream these efficiently is what's important.
I also don't understand why that question is related to the HMD... since it is just a display, the number of polygons is determined by the computer that you attach it to. I guess the question really is 'is the failing the HMD, or the computer?'

You're missing the point. "Polygon count" is a simple stand-in for something hard to quantify like "photo-realistic rendering". It doesn't relate to HMD's directly but to VR technology in general. A lot of technologies have to come together to create an immersive experience. I'm just trying to say that some of them are further along so you get less for your money with them versus other technologies. That knowledge can help you make better choices.

My real message however is this: "Between the HMZ-T1 and the ST1080, the difference in FOV matters more than the difference in resolution. You get more VR for your money with the Sony."

I get the point. There are other factors that concern me even more with the ST1080 though, like:
1. Looking at the images, it looks like the unit is fixed lenses, which means you can't change the IPD. Since every one has different distances between their eyes, this is a MAJOR failing if not included, since half (at least) won't be able to use it comfortably. Also, this means you need to wear glasses with it... what a pain.
2. The contrast ratio of 100:1 is terrible. That's basically the same as all the other LCD HMD from 5 years ago and it's not good enough for a $800 unit.
3. If using for VR, it will need a light shield for sure.

As for the decision between
- improving the photo-realistic rendering: I think this isn't really the issue these days. Better would be nice, but not what's holding us back
- doubling the resolution: For VR, I think that it will be important, but not essential.
- doubling the FOV: Probably the most important area that needs to be improved for immersion. Mind you, I haven't a 45degree FOR HMD to test this with, only cheap ol' 35deg.

Yes, FOV is the biggest issue right now with consumer VR. Even the Sony, at 51 degrees, still isn't what you would expect from VR. Resolution is not the biggest issue. If you are talking about low res stuff VGA, etc. then that may be too low. But even 720P looks good for the FOV. Now if you are talking about stretching that to 90 degrees+, then maybe its not enough. But if we are dealing with 1080P, then its probably fine. Sure, you might see a pixel or two if you look closely, but it is not holding back a VR experience. The current level of graphics, polygon count, shader operations, etc are not holding anyone back. The low FOV of most headsets *IS* holding VR back. So FOV is certainly the biggest issue, I would say.

st1080 with 45 FOv without IPD and focus adjustments is making me suspect if this is going to be a great HMD.....unless this thing uses miraculous optics....i wonder if the optics will be good enough...

i will wait for reviews from CES '12 ...

My use is head tracked immersive gaming. I was al lset to buy an HMZt1 but the reports I am hearing about front-heaviness and difficulty moving the head have me cocnerned.

The St1080 look liek its much more appropriate for that use. And I actually *prefer* the 10% see through. I don't touch type, but i have a brightly lit keyboard. I will be playing in the dark so that seems perfect. Look straight ahead, ist immersive, look down, I see my KB

I actually see the lack of big headphones builtl in as an advantage as well. Simulated surround has gotnen better but is still nowhere near as good as the real thing. Im putting a real 5.1 speaker set in my play-pod.

anyone going to attend CES'12 ?

@ Cyberqat: 5.1 sound won't follow your head tracking, which is where headphones are better for immersion.

@ ancjob: lets face it, the ST1080 is pretty much vaporware atm. Until they release some actual specs it seems a waste of time speculating what it will have and whether it will be better or worse than the Sony.

The Sony sounds pretty good from what I hear, however, i'm wanting to hear how people get on eliminating the 'sweet spot' issue many are mentioning, where they lose focus on moving their head.

I am. I will be at their booth for sure.

plz palmer do post your review regd :

1)image quality - is it really fabulous as claimed ?

2)virtual screen size,'sweet spot' if any , focusing issues, light-blocking mods if possible with this
since this has fov slightly more than that of z800 - optics quality...if this has 'effortless focus' ?

3)viewing angles , screen if a lot reflective etc

4)audio quality

5)quality of 3D from blu-rays etc , formats supported

6)overall verdict

in short u will be 'Astral projection' of me there at the booth

This is sounding less and less like vapourware. Interested to hear what CES attendees have to say about it!

While I don't really REQUIRE 1080 (high FOV for me!), its always nice to have a higher resolution, especially for VR applications when you are magnifying pixels...

What specs changed? I went to the website and it doesn't look like anything changed, with the exception of the price announcement.

I think they are the same specs released previously (that I think I missed somehow). So probably the only new thing after all is the confirmed price and the info re the 'dev kit'...

Remember that even TDVision sent out working prototypes to some members here. They will need more than a post on Facebook to convince me its real.

That said, I do hope these guys follow through. Competition is always good.

Exactly CR - that why I was leaning towards this being vapourware. However, at least they are making more noise about it, which is quite encouraging.

One thing for sure, it looks like the HMZ is a popular idea (more so than I expected, actually) and hopefully this will focus some attention on the area of consumer HMD's.

come on guys - lemme live in a dreamworld with st1080 and hope !

it's the ONLY one with 1920x1080 resolution with hdmi and 3D on hdmi 1.4 - if this comes out gaming 'd be fun any resolution [unlike z800 limited to 800x600] and high fov 45 [better than z800]

i am waiting for the pre-orders start date ....

If they get off their arse and actually release something, they might actually do really well, just because the HMZ is so hard to get at its RRP.

Sony has to drastically change the design to be a success....
even if the sony is out in Jan'12 still i will not buy as it's flawed in design
let them launch it with a glasses style design then i will think for the present i will pass....st1080 seems a great product..

I'm not yet convinced that the ST1080 is a flawless design. It depends on what you want to do with it, but it's still not ideal.
There's also things that I don't see mentioned on the sight, which I feel are must haves:
- IPD adjustment
- Focus Adjustment
- Light shrouds
- Head tracking.

If you're just watching a movie, I think that a standard TV will probably be better then this. If gaming, it seems to be missing features.

At least having another alternative is good as it will push other companies to come out with better products to compete. If only lumus would release their display (and for a reasonable price), so we can see if that technology is worth it.

Very true Android. Lets face it, ST1080 could be terrible ergonomically, visually, etc. We just dont know yet.

For me, light shrouds, focus adjustments, and head tracking are not really necessary. I can do without all these things (some might not be able to do without focus adjustments). I'm happy to put my own head tracker on it if it keeps the prices down...

Ok, I guess that my list really isn't what's necessary. I do think that they are pretty useless if there is no IPD adjustment though. No two peoples eyes are the same distance apart, and you really can't fix this if your eyes don't match the distance the manufacturers have used as an average. For the focus, you can add lenses before the display, but I don't see why this should be needed with a $800 device.

I agree, IPD adjustment is pretty much essential!

Eh, I am not so sure. Some optics are designed with such a wide exit pupil (Like the Olympus Eye-Trek line) that no IPD is needed for 90% of the population. Who knows, maybe these optics are adequate?

This will mean that you can focus on the entire screen, however you will still have to adjust the convergence in software to provide a comfortable experience. By doing it in software, you will lose some of the overlap of the displays.

i do not think so that it's true 'AR' HMD it's just transparent HMD that's it...a 'see-through' , no cameras to mix image using computer software and set convergence

it's like epson HMD with higher FOV and 'not' based on android interface

one 'd not confuse it with the likes of below

http://www.vrealities.com/mirage.html

that's true AR HMD - mirage...costs a fortune...

For me the ergonomic adjustments, namely IPD and diopter, are really a must have for HMD design. I feel like Sony dropped the ball on this, even though the HMZ-T1 did work well for my eyes (I know other people complained). Certainly I would love to use an HMD without wearing my glasses, and I can do this on the Vuzix Wrap 310 (but not the 1200VR, what happened?). So the biggest feature for me would be to find a headset that I can adjust so that the image is in perfectly clear view (including the edges of the screen) and that I won't have to wear glasses. If this company can do that, then I will want to get this product.

3 more days to close this year .....they say pre-oder 'd start in dec '11 so when they are gonna do that!......any updates ?

the mail i received today
---------------------------------
Happy New Year.

We've been working around the clock to prepare for the 2012 Consumer Electronics Show and for product shipment.

We are looking forward to having visitors try out the ST1080 at our CES booth. We had a lot of great suggestions from people who submitted their ideas on the RSVP page for what we should show at CES, so it will be a great time at the booth. We will be showing the ST1080 in its various connectivity configuration including game consoles (Xbox, PS3), PC/laptops, smartphones (iPhone 4S), tablet (iPad 2), and Blu-ray players (2D and 3D content).

Our plan was to start taking pre-orders for the ST1080 in December. However, due to on-going supplier delays around the holidays, we were not able to get demo units into the hands of technology reviewers in December. This means that there are no third-party reviews to help you make your purchase decision. With the 2012 CES in about a week, we've decided to postpone taking orders until after the CES when there will be plenty of reviews. This gives you more information upon which to make your purchase decision and it will provide us with much-needed time to strengthen our inventory position.

We feel that postponing the start of pre-orders is preferrable to taking your pre-orders and delaying the shipment. When we are ready to take your orders, we want you to be confident that your product will arrive within a reasonable amount of time.

So, with our focus on the CES, we are boxing up our booth equipment and preparing for the start of what we hope is an amazing journey for us and, more importantly, an amazing visual journey for you.

Sincerely,
--------------------------------------------------------------------

so they will start taking pre-orders after CES'12
ok - i can wait - no problem as long as i have hope and certain that this is NOT vaporware...

Reading through this thread, it captures a great deal of info about the ST1080, but there's more that's located on the ST1080 site and in the interview that Neil posted to YouTube a few hours ago. I wanted to collect the info here, and post some of my pending questions.

What we know not covered previously on this thread (hopefully none are a repeat):
* We know that the unit has IPD adjustment (YouTube)
* Both the HMD and Controller include "Mute" button that mutes the sound and powers down the display unit (YouTube)
* The Controller can be powered using a USB micro cable (YouTube)
* The Controller can adjust flicker and brightness through an OSD menu (YouTube)
* The Controller may be able to be upgraded at a later time independent of the HMD to support the optional 1080P 3D 60Hz mode (SMD Site)
* This unit is HDMI v1.3a compliant (YouTube @ 2:56)
* A future version of this unit will allow adjustable transparency from 0 - 50% (YouTube and SMD Site)
* There is no "stock" method for blocking out the 10% transparency on this first unit, although a 3rd party visor or equivalent would suffice (SMD Site)
* A future version of this unit will be HDMIv1.4a compliant (YouTube)
* An available retention strap will allow the unit to be supported without resting on the bridge of the nose (YouTube)

Pending questions
* The spec sheet specifies the device at 7 Watts and claims to be powered by USB. USB 1.1/2.0 ports offer a maximum of 500mW per port @ 5V. So in order to the device at 7 Watts, 3 USB ports would be required. Given the discrepancy, how can this unit be powered off a standard USB port?
* The spec sheet references HDMI A + D ports, 3.5mm audio input, and HMD output. In the YouTube video there was no mention of the D port or the audio port, but there was mention of the aforementioned USB microport. Can we assume that the controller using actually includes all of these ports?
* There does not appear to be a HDMI pass through mode supported (akin to the HMZ-T1) if we want to integrate this into an existing home theatre environment will we need a 3rd party HDMI splitter?
* The device appears to support 720P 3D@50/60Hz modes for gameplay. Does the control unit handle scaling to full screen at this and other non-native resolutions?
* Mention is made of 1080P 3D @ 30Hz compatibility. Does this unit support 1080P 3D @ 24Hz?
* The 100:1 system contrast ratio takes into account the brightness of the LEDs used to light the LCoS array devices. If we are in a darkened environment and reduce the brightness of the unit will the perceived system contrast ratio increase?

I think the guy meant HDMI 1.4a NOT 1.3a (if thats even a thing). Surely this is supporting 3D.