Looking at the specs for the Optoma TX1080 is says it is cable of locking both horizontal and vertical refresh rate of 100hz. Anyone know if this is really true, or is it just down-converting to 85hz? Looking at 1080p 3D projectors on the market so far, the ANSI lumens ratings suck and their pricing does too. I'm wondering if this is not the answer I'm digging around for. Digging around I see no other 1080p projector that claims such high hz settings on a non-3D ready projector. I'm assuming this would be accomplished through the dual-link dvi port. Thoughts?

Specs: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-TX1080.htm

Basically, if its not a 3D projector it won't work. Refresh rate is the most important aspect, but just having a high refresh does not automatically make it support 3D.

I would recommend this projector:
http://3dvision-blog.com/acer-h5360bd-i ... a-support/

Granted, I haven't seen it. But the older model has gotten rave reviews and this newer one supports HDMI 1.4a, so it will work with whatever you've got.

I'm looking for a 1080p solution. Seems like 1080p is bust on the projector side of things. Seems like a victim of being between the time dual-dvi is dieing and DP is starting up. Noone wants to make a proper consumer priced 1080p 3D ready projector.

Well I think you might be out of luck. The only 1080P 3D projectors are professional models that are certainly outside your budget (talking $10K and up). And if you want it for gaming, it wouldn't even matter since HDMI 1.4 is limited to 720P when in 60Hz mode. And I'll tell you 720P 3D looks loads better than 1080P 2D. You gotta give to get. These projectors are relatively cheap. I think that Acer H5360BD will sell for $800, which is nice for a 100" 3D screen. Then in a year or two maybe they will have affordable 1080P 3D PJs and we will have updated HDMI chips or DP will take over. But a lot of stuff could happen in 2 years. Might as well get whats available today and enjoy it while it lasts.

I'm already enjoying projectors with what is available today. Was just hoping that my next logical step was 3D 1080p. Been doing 3048x768 triple circular projection for 1.5 years now. I wanted to take the next step as 3D and 1080p from my 1024x768 triple projection setup, but I suppose I can make my move to 1280x800 120hz triple projection instead.

My criteria is short-throw and 3D ready so it'll conform to my current 180 degree circular screen. My current short list of potential projectors are: Optoma GT700, Optoma GT720, InFocus IN146, BenQ MW811ST, Dell S200, Dell S300W, ViewSonic PJD7583w and Optoma TW610ST. All but the Optoma GT ones are 0.5:1 short-throw on my list. I have experience with the GT700/GT720 but prefer a 0.5:1 short-throw over a 0.7:1 projector. Most simple projector users have different criteria and requirements than I need. The lens throw on all Acer projectors are ill suited for my setup. It'll require 0.5:1 short-throw to do proper mounting in my setup.

Ok, I didn't know you wanted to do triple-head. In that case DO NOT get that projector I listed. Nvidia 3D Vision Surround and Nvidia 3DTV Play are not compatible. You would need a 120Hz projector. You would want the Acer H5360, which sells for around $550, and is available today. Thats the projector that has gotten the best reviews for compatibility with Nvidia 3D Vision. Unfortunately I don't think AMD supports HD3D and Eyefinity at the same time with projectors. I know it has been done with triple Zalman (interlaced monitors). So you will also need a beefy Nvidia setup like the GTX 590 or a similar spec SLI rig. Running at 720P might actually help, because 1080P x3 3D will not perform too well on most games.

I have both tri-SLI GTX-470 and dual Crossfire 5860 Eyefinity 6 available for the machine. I just have to swap cards. Been running Eyefinity 5x1P on the system currently and it requires a bit of preference tweaking to push 6000x1920 even at 60hz. My 3D glasses are the NVIDIA 3D Vision kit, so I'll have to use the Tri-SLI GTX470 configuration anyways on it. I hate proprietary hardware designs. IMHO, the reason why 3D adoption is so spotty is the fragmented proprietary nature of most solutions.

Again, I require 0.5:1 short-throw lens to properly mount for my screen configuration. No Acer projector has anything close to 0.5:1 short-throw. You keep on giving me recommendations that don't apply to my setup.



I suppose I could fabricate a new screen to accommodate the Acers but the problem is the distance/lens throw required to achieve the projection height I require for my gaming room. My target is 60-72" projection height. That is very hard to do on a front projection curved screen without short-throws. To better visualize what I'm talking about here is my sig from another forum. The bottom left is my gaming room. The top left and right are the current screen in it, but with GT720's. I don't own those GT720's so I had to send them back to AMD in Canada. My preference on projectors would be something with a shorter throw than the GT700/GT720.



If I do go 3D 720p, I'll have to merely apply the Acer H5360.inf display driver to whatever 3D 720p projector I do end up getting. The NVIDIA drivers will see them as Acer H5360 even when they're something else. I guess my current question is which of the projectors on my list are best suited for NVIDIA 3D Vision Surround? Optoma GT700, Optoma GT720, InFocus IN146, BenQ MW811ST, Dell S200, Dell S300W, ViewSonic PJD7583w and Optoma TW610ST?

You've got quite a setup! Unfortunately, I don't have much (really any) experience with projectors or triple-head. Maybe there are some other members that could help, but I am not really qualified. What I can tell you is to only buy equipment that is listed on the Nvidia requirements page if you plan to use their solution. Although there are some hacks you can do, who knows how long they will work for.

Thanks, my setups are a bit exotic and specialized. That why I was originally just speaking in terms of single projector. I highly doubt more than a couple of people have practical experience with triple 720p 3d projection. The Optoma GT700/GT720 are on the list of NVIDIA certified projectors. I just don't want to use 3D capable 0.71:1 short-throw when I know that 3D capable 0.49:1 short-throw can be purchased.



Given a bit of numbers, my screen is 60" projection height. If I chose to use the Acer H5360's they'd need 11 foot throw to achieve 48" projection height and around 14 foot to achieve 60". I don't have 14 foot to allot to the mounting, because my screen setup is portable and the mounting design is roughly at the center point of the screen arc radius. My room is 13 foot wide, so that requires the projectors to be mounted roughly around 5-6 foot away from the screen. That is achievable with 0.5:1 short-throw. My current projectors are Optoma EX525ST, which are 0.6:1 short-throw. They are too crowded together, hence my need of 0.5:1 short-throw to directly address that problem. Here is an example of a 0.5:1 short-throw measurement data. The mounting locations are a lot more manageable with those measurements for my 60" projection height. Lens throw is largely irrelevant to most projector users, but with simulator builders it's a critical spec requirement in layout and design.



Note the drastic difference in distance requirement to screen between the H5360 and the IN146 to achieve 60" projection height and you begin to see the importance of lens throw in circular screen design. Another way I could address the issue is to build another screen with 48" projection height, but I'm used to 60".

Here is an example of triple 0.5:1 short-throw projectors with 225 degree FOV. This is what I'd like to achieve but with 3D. Most games barf at over 180 FOV, but I'd like to configure the setup for 225 for flight sims. My plan would be to run most games at 180 degree FOV but switch to 225 for flight. Pre-warp correction of the projection will be done with NTHUSIM Plus or SimVisuals. I have licenses for both and they're compatible with NVIDIA 3D Vision.

http://www.ivarhestnes.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=53

Thats a crazy setup you just linked too. No doubt it would be even crazier if it were 3D.

My personal setup information for my build is on this page: http://www.nthusim.com/setup/bhawthorne ... projection

I need to update it a bit though. Some of it is old info.

Hi,

Have you considered using a 1st Reflective Curved mirror?? have you found any 720p 3D capable Projectors??

I have a Triple Screen setup using nVidia 3D Vision but at a 3072x768 rez and Older DLP PRojectors and it looks really good in S3D..Been looking to upgrade to the 3D Ready DLP Projectors to get 120hz

Wow! Thats more impressive than I thought. Seeing that, now I want to help you take it to the next level. Unfortunately, I am just not seeing anything that meets all your requirements. I guess its possible you could hack support for one of those projectors you listed. Maybe using something like the DVI Detective to spoof a compatible model (like Acer H5360). Using hacked inf is also an option. But its not really a sure-fire bet. If I had to pick one I'd say the Optoma GT720, since it is officially supported by Nvidia. Although the screen size may be smaller, I think the 3D would make up for it.

On a whim today I reinstalled my 3D Vision kit on my system with a Dell P1110 CRT I had sitting around to do some S3D testing.

Edit: Well 3D Vision glasses work great with the CRT, but not with my current non-3d ready DLP projectors. I though as much would occur. Oh well, was worth a try. So far when looking around for projectors the GT700/GT720 seem to be the most competitive priced 1280x800 short-throw I can find. I think it might be the way to go. I did want 0.5:1 short-throw, but the price just isn't worth the difference in mounting location. I am willing to tolerate 0.7:1 short-throw just not to have to fork out $200-300 more per projector. As a bonus, the GT720 is on the certified list.

Seriously? As cool as legit 3D gaming on a giant screen might be, don't you loose a ton of PC gaming's advantage by only outputting 720p ? See, this is the debate that I'm having in my head internally. I can spend a pretty low amount of money on a Acer H5360 projector (not the new one), and be able to game in 3D using my PC. But.... I'm at 720p, and while the Acer can do 3D, there is no way in hell it has better optics than the current 720p projector that I'm using.

I can spend double that and get a legit 1080p projector, which is pretty huge for PC gaming. The big differential between PC gaming and console gaming is the fact that you can step up to a legit 1920 x 1080p resolution. Many console games are running at 620p. It's a huge jump. But if you instead go with a 720p 3D projector, yeah, you're getting that 3D wow factor, but when you don't feel like playing in 3D, in a longer game or whatever, you're actually enjoying seriously inferior picture quality compared to something like a Mits HC4000.



I'm not sure the new one is really going to be worth the extra $350 . I think it will be $850 for awhile, before dropping to $799.99 and such. So, you're basically talking about $350 to get compatibility with stuff like PS3 and Direct TV . I would say that it would almost be worth it, especially watching ESPN 3D on a huge screen, to spend that extra $350, but remember, this is more of a stop-gap solution until there is a legit 1080p 3D projector to roll with. Might be better to go with the dirt cheapo option, and just use your PC for anything 3D related (games, blu ray movies, etc) Not having ESPN 3D as an option does suck though..

The price difference is notable between something like an Acer H5360BD and factory refurb Optoma GT700/GT720 that are now available for around $450-550 in limited quantity. Keep in mind my puchases of projectors get exponential. I have to buy three. $800 x 3 = $2400 while $450 x 3 = $1350. $2400 - $1350 = $1050. That's enough money to throw around to get significant hardware upgrades for something like mobo/cpu or dual NVIDIA cards and have some left over. At $1350, builds like this really start becoming affordable to the average enthusiast. If people can spend $1k on an unlocked Intel CPU, they can certainly spend $1350 on projectors. $2400 is a whole different ballpark in budgets though.

There is another aspect that needs to be thought of too. This doesn't really have anything to do with S3D, but the GPU processing power and video ram needed to deal with 3840x720 versus 5760x1080 is significantly different. In either case it's been shown that modern triple-display systems need at least 2GB of video ram to keep from hitting a brick wall with video settings. Most recently NVIDIA has added the GTX580 3GB. I see that as being more commonplace in the market with wider adoption of multi-screen systems. Although triple-screen and S3D are still specialty markets at this point in time, I do welcome more video ram on cards by NVIDIA and AMD. 3840x720@120hz is a lot easier to have smooth system response with than 5760x1080@120hz. My target hardware for the build is currently my Tri-SLI GTX470 hardware setup. The limited video ram on the card really forces my hand towards 3840x720@120hz. On my current AMD 5870 E6 system I run 6000x1920 5x1P Crossfire. With those cards even having 2GB, it's not enough. GPU ram and processing power is a hidden factor in this build that needs to be accounted for.

While triple 1080p@120hz sounds sexy, when examined closely the concept really falls apart because of hardware limits and price point. Even with exotic buids, you have to plan rationally for them.

The 3D TV aspect you brought up has me curious. I never thought of that part of the build equation before even though I have used my Motorola STB with firewire input to play back on my triple projection system using VLC on unencrypted channels. How would something like a Ceton InfiniTV 4 CableCARD play into 3D use (if any)? If I recall correctly, COX Cable (my provider) has a tier of 3D channels available. I'm curious if the Ceton card can stream those channels correctly to something like 3D Vision without needing the HDMI 1.4a methods? (http://www.cetoncorp.com/products.php) I've been looking at the Ceton card for awhile now as a more viable method to play HDTV and premium channels on my builds. My interest in the card is still there regardless of the S3D capability outcome. The ability to show encrypted HDTV cable on the pc makes it a very useful piece of hardware.

Yes, for real. I would take 3D over 2D any day. It really takes the experience to the next level. You can keep upping the resolution, but you are not really changing the experience. Its just at a higher fidelity. With 3D, you are fundamentally changing the experience (for the better). Its just a whole 'nother world. Obviously you would want everything: 1080P, 3D, 120Hz, etc. But you have to make a compromise somewhere.

Hello, BHawthorne. I recall your name and posts from WSGF. I'm planning an FPS and RPG simulator, which are very rare. To physically move through the virtual environment, I plan to use a manual treadmill. I'd like to use projectors but fitting them in a dorm would be difficult, and I'm worried about burn-in and burnout. If I use a projector setup as a desktop which is on most of the day, will burn-in happen, and how long will I be able to go before buying new bulbs? With three projectors, bulb replacement costs over $1000 each time, right? I'm also considering building a custom HMD, but I don't think surround vision would really be possible. I may have to just get three 27" Acer 1080p3D monitors and relinquish the simulator plans.

A manual treadmill would be an interesting experiment. Never thought of something like that. A dorm room makes for a difficult location to do a build in. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's going to take a lot of forethought to do right. In terms of bulbs they have to be thought of as consumables. I purchased my Optoma EX525ST I currently use in October of 2009 and have used roughly 1000 hours on them each out of the 4000-5000 bulb life. Keep in mind that I did not use the system for daily desktop use, but only in games. Another thing to realize is that these pre-warping applications (NTHUSIM and Warpalizer) do not work on the 2D desktop. They only pre-warp full screen DirectX and OpenGL. Immersaview does have a desktop and fullscreen pre-warp utility but it requires an expensive commercial license for use. It really just depends on how much work you want to put into it. I use both multi-LCD and multi-projector setups. I spend a majority of my time on the multi-LCD setups though as to save bulb life. The "wow factor" of triple projection is something that is hard to compare to something like 3x1L 24" LCD though. Even though they use the same computer hardware, the visuals in a room sized circular projection is truly mind-blowing. The problem is, it needs to have a room dedicated to it, which if anything is the largest limitation to builds like that. I can only do my build because I live in a house with an unfinished basement. I can make those rooms onto whatever I want for projection experiments.

One of the reasons why I'm selling off my Optoma EX525ST is to keep up with current projector technology while my old projectors still have a bit of viable resell value and bulb life. Ideally, I'd like to hold my use on projectors to about 1200 hours a year (roughly 20 hours a week of playtime) and replace my projectors every 2 years to keep up with technology. Sort of similar to how computing hardware enthusiasts have an upgrade cycle with their video cards. It's a shame 3D Ready DLP came out only a few months after I got my EX525ST. If I would have known it was on the horizon back then I would have held off a bit on my initial projector purchases. Back then I was all about merely seeing if any of this was possible though and hindsight is always 20-20.

After gaming awhile with my 3D Vision kit and the CRT, I have a feeling 3D in the room sized circular projection setup is going to take it to the next level for me.

This is so true. 3D really is on another level, technically another dimension . I don't really have the space (or the money) for a crazy setup like that, but I am very happy with my single-screen 3D monitor setup. Been really itching to try the 3D Vision Surround (maybe with 3x 27" monitors) but its a lot of money, probably just as much (or more) as the triple projector setup. But its on my radar. In the mean-time I have aspirations of building the ultimate HMD, but who knows how that will turn out.

Yep, surprisingly enough, the Acer 27" LCDs cost more than the Optoma GT700/720's I plan on using. The potential problem I see with the new Acer 27" and 3DVS is that the emitters are embedded in the display. How do you keep from all three firing off and only use one emitter? It's another reason why I'm using the NVIDIA 3D Vision kit and not the DLP 3D Ready projector emitters. I could see a set of glasses getting confused by three emitters enabled and not just one. Also, you're stuck buying the glasses with each 27", so you'll end up with three sets. I suppose that isn't a bad thing though if you want friends to also experience the setup at the same time.

Duct tape solves everything. LOL!

hehe, true enough.

Everything except ducts! When MetalQueen was towards the end of her pregnancy and we moved into our house, the floor vent covers were off and were exposed. She accidentally stepped into one (because she couldn't see the floor), and I had to repair it. I could use duct tape to wrap around the piping to hold the duct in place, but it is actually not a good choice for sealing vents, etc. because duct tape can't withstand the heating and cooling air. Had to use aluminum tape for that.

Regards,
Neil

Another silly failure of duct tape is I'm a volunteer at an aviation museum, and one of the other volunteers was using duct tape to close up holes in the fuselage of the museum aircraft to keep birds out. Problem is duct tape isn't all weather stuff. A couple of days in the sun and a few rains makes for a useless mess where the backing peels off and leaves that annoying mesh and adhesive stuck to the side of things. I had to nip that idea in the bud quick because it's a PITA to clean off aircraft skins. that person's solution was more problem than help, as it created more stuff that needs to be hand cleaned on the aircraft fuselages now.

On the projector side of things, my current plan is to purchase two projectors next week and wait on purchasing the third until a few ebay sales go though of expensive but largely useless crap I have sitting around.

Ok, cool. Please let use know how that goes.

So I guess using mirrors is out?? If you have already decided on the new Projectors which ones did you decide to go with??

I would like to get some new DLP Projectors for my Virtual Simulator and not have to wear the Glasses upside down due too parralex inversion of my NON-Certified 3D Projectors I currently use..

Going with mirrors can be done but that is adding unnecessary complexity to the build. I prefer my builds adhere to the KISS principle. Less complexity means less to go wrong.

My pick is Optoma GT700 or GT720. The GT720 is a known quantity for me because they were used on the demos I did for AMD in the last year. I ended up picking the GT700/GT720 purely on price point alone with factory refublished GT700/GT720's. Sure, I've used them before, they're on the NVIDIA 3D Vision certified list and they're short-throw, but they wouldn't be my first pick. My preference would be a 0.5:1 short-throw, but 0.7:1 short-throw is tolerable. I just have to modify my screen design a bit.

Optoma is first rate with their refurbs. They put in new bulbs and the projectors themselves look new. Two of my three Optoma EX525ST in my current build were Optoma factory refurbs with zero issue.

Looks like it's all go for purchase of two of the three projectors in the next day though. After I recoup a few sales on ebay of stuff I'll get the third projector and do a few write-ups on S3D.

Sweet. I hope everything works out.

Anyone have any experience with NVIDIA 3D Vision Surround and custom resolutions? I was thinking a way I could get around the enforced three-display requirement would be to use two projectors and run the third cable to one of the projector spare ports so the drivers see three active ports for the display grouping. I then go into the NVIDIA control panel and set up a custom resolution for all displays of 853x720 @120hz. I then setup using NTHUSIM set for two projector mode and adjust the prewarping on the screen to a 2560x720 dual-projector layout. It should make dual-display work with NVIDIA Surround. That is sure one roundabout way of doing it though, but I have previous experience with NVIDIA Surround and 2048x768 on a non S3D projection setup so at least the surround configuration should work. I just hope 3D Vision likes custom resolutions too.

I seriously doubt that will work, but I admittedly have little to no experience with such things.

It works with the 2D version of NVIDIA Surround. My guess it it'll work with the 3D version too. I'll know in about a week once the projectors arrive ground shipping. I went cheap on the shipping on these things and have to wait awhile because of it.

I've forced odd resolution like that before in NVIDIA Surround. For instance I did a proof of concept setup where I used Falcon 4: Allied Force on NVIDIA Surround. It's a DX7 title, so it maxes out at 2048 pixel width. Anything wider will CTD with that game engine. I ran it 2046x768 on my projection setup.

NTHUSIM will allow me to position the screen content properly on just the two projectors with zero content pushed to the third fake display. You can do some pretty exotic stuff with screen arrangement and prewarping software. This would be impossible to do without NTHUSIM, as it would regularly push content to that third display. In this case I just scale the content into only the two projectors.

In that case, maybe it will work. All I know is that whenever anything 3D is involved its a hassle just getting it to work normally sometimes, forget doing anything fancy/weird.

Maybe you could also try SoftTH, which can be used in 2 monitor modes nowadays. I don't know if it will work with nthusim and 3dvision though.

Already using NTHUSIM which is incompatible with SoftTH. NTHUSIM is a requirement for the build in order for proper projection alignment to the curved screen. I have an alternate option of using an MView MV103 box for 120hz dual-display, but that would cost me an extra $300 and a month to slow boat it from China to my location. MView box is like a Matrox DH2G box but much higher hz capabilities. For now it just makes the most sense to fake the third screen and scale it to proper perspective using custom resolution. I already own two Matrox DH2G Digital, but those won't allow S3D. If I didn't want to do S3D I would be set, but S3D was a major factor in my current design. (and why I'm here)

Here is the current design:

All set on the initial two projectors. First projector shipped Tuesday and I purchased the second one tonight. I'm just itching to see what S3D in surround mode looks like.

Yeah, me too. Not sure I can afford it right now, but if you take some nice pictures of your setup I can at least pretend.

That is wierd that the DH2Go does NOT do S3D the TH2Go does?? anyhow I thnik the triple Screens and S3d Is Really Cool just more S3D makes you feel like you are there sometimes..

Looking forward to your Feedback on what you think of S3D..

So, Matrox TH2G can do 120hz 2560x720 for 3D Vision kit compatibility? I've seen that documented nowhere. If so, my problem is solved and I'll just use the Matrox boxes I have sitting around. Not to doubt you, but could you please link to 120hz TH2G information so I could read up on it?