Will the PS3 3D mode for movies support polarized glasses?

[smoothy]

I got some questions I hope you can please answer

I read that bluray movies will support both active and polarized TV's, as the PS3 will have 3d bluray support do you know if the 3d bluray movies via the PS3 will work with polarized 3DTV's and glasses?

I know the games are only working with active 3dtv's, I think it's a shame as if they do support polarized for bluray movies as well then why not also support it for gaming?

I would like to ask some other quick questions here instead of making another thread

I noticed on the Samsung website that their 3D bluray player has a mode which takes a 16:9 movies and converts it to 21:9 in real time. So you don't get those big black borders on the top and bottom of your TV and projector. Do you know if the PS3 has this?

Also, I like the widgets and widgets apps from the Samsung app store. This really makes the TV very attractive with so many features, do you know if the PS3 has widgets and apps that you can install like the Sasmung TV's? If not are there any plans for the PS3 to support this?

Do you know if the PS3 is going to get a real time 3D conversion mode like the kind which is built in to the new Sony Bravia 3DTV's and Samsung 3D TV's? I believe these TV's are using the Sensio chip. The cell processor could probably do the same thing. This would be an awesome feature for gaming on current 3d projectors while their isn't much 3d content at the moment.

Lastly, Sony has removed the ability to install any operating system on the PS3, with that in mind does the PS3 have the ability to make skype calls and skype video calls either by using a PC webcam or the PS eye?

As you can see I really like the PS3 and the Samsung 3D bluray player but I am not going to get both, it has to be one or the other. I just really like it if the PS3 has widgets and that 21:9 mode, then I wouldn't need the Samsung bluray, well it does have the 3d conversion chip. But I can only use that for movies. It's funny manufacturers are always missing something you really want, it's like they purposely do it so you end up buying both devices as the other device probably uses one of their components which means they make twice as much.

I hope you can please quote my questions when answering

Many thanks in advance

[taz291819]

The PS3, a PC, a 3D BD player, etc., don't care if you are using passive-polarized or active shutter glasses. The glasses are 100% dependent on your display.

So to answer your question, yes, the PS3 (for games and movies) "support" passive-polarized glasses.

[DmitryKo]

Oh boy, please don't start it all over again...

[smoothy]

The PS3, a PC, a 3D BD player, etc., don't care if you are using passive-polarized or active shutter glasses. The glasses are 100% dependent on your display.

So to answer your question, yes, the PS3 (for games and movies) "support" passive-polarized glasses.

Are you sure?

I know DmitryKo just posted that link to my old thread which I quickly skimmed through but really from all the latest news it seems the PS3 only supports active. I just don't get it. I don't mean to touch a nerve with anyone.

[cybereality]

Well, here we go again.... lol.

To answer your question as clear as possible: The PS3 supports neither active nor passive glasses. It supports the HDMI 1.4 framepacking transmission format. This format is basically a full resolution 1080P over/under format. The television is required to support this HDMI protocol and convert that into its native display format, be it page-flipping for active shutter glasses or line-interleaved for some polarized displays. That is it. The PS3 merely supports the standard. It is up to display manufacturers to bring out hardware that supports this standard.

[android78]

Are you sure?

I know DmitryKo just posted that link to my old thread which I quickly skimmed through but really from all the latest news it seems the PS3 only supports active. I just don't get it. I don't mean to touch a nerve with anyone.

My understanding is that it is essentially just an update to read 3D BD correctly and to output 3D to the HDMI correctly.
If your display can interpret the 3D signals that are sent from the PS3, then it doesn't matter if your display is using shutter glasses or passive polarized to render the 3D. Polarized, as with active shutter, or even HMD are all display technologies. So long as your display can recognize the signal transmitted from the PS3, there shouldn't be an issue.
The only problem is that there hasn't been confirmation of what format the PS3 will be using for 3D. If you want some speculation as to what format the PS3 will be using, see the following:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/Play ... p/45086549" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[android78]

Well, here we go again.... lol.

To answer your question as clear as possible: The PS3 supports neither active nor passive glasses. It supports the HDMI 1.4 framepacking transmission format.

Has HDMI 1.4 been confirmed? If it is HDMI 1.4, it probably won't be full spec.

[cybereality]

Has HDMI 1.4 been confirmed? If it is HDMI 1.4, it probably won't be full spec.

I am almost certain its using the HDMI 1.4 720P60 format.

[smoothy]

Well, here we go again.... lol.

To answer your question as clear as possible: The PS3 supports neither active nor passive glasses. It supports the HDMI 1.4 framepacking transmission format. This format is basically a full resolution 1080P over/under format. The television is required to support this HDMI protocol and convert that into its native display format, be it page-flipping for active shutter glasses or line-interleaved for some polarized displays. That is it. The PS3 merely supports the standard. It is up to display manufacturers to bring out hardware that supports this standard.

Many thanks for your reply

I totally understand how it works now,

Thanks again

Moving on to some of my other questions in my original post, does anybody have any answers to them, I would love to know?

[android78]

I am almost certain its using the HDMI 1.4 720P60 format.

Sounds feasible. I doubt they could do the full 1080P60. The reports of reduced resolution when switching the PS3 to 3D would seem to confirm this too. I wonder how good 3D BDs will look if that's all it can manage.

[smoothy]

Well at E3 they said Gran Turismo 5 will be full 1080p 3D

[DmitryKo]

there hasn't been confirmation of what format the PS3 will be using for 3D.

Actually Sony reps were quoted saying they will only support HDMI 1.4 3D formats, which most recently was confirmed on the Sony Computer Entertainment panel at the 3D Gaming Summit.

I doubt they could do the full 1080P60. The reports of reduced resolution when switching the PS3 to 3D would seem to confirm this too.

I'd think a simple platformer game or a Move controller sports/dance/whatever game could easily do 1080p60 stereo on the PS3.

However, even though HDMI 3D does specify 1080p60 stereo formats, they are not mandatory in HDMI 1.4a specs, and even recent HDMI 3D transmitters do not support the required clock rates of 297 MHz.

If it is HDMI 1.4, it probably won't be full spec

There is no "full spec" in HDMI, since almost everything besides the basic functionalily is optional. PS3 will fully support HDMI 3D protocols - HDMI Licensing LLC even made a special exception to its licensing rules to allow older devices to implement HDMI 3D (no wonder given Sony's status as a HDMI Founder).

If you want some speculation as to what format the PS3 will be using, see the following:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/Play ... p/45086549" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep, that's mostly correct, however be sure to check HDMI 1.4a 3D update and list of common resolutions to fill some gaps.

It supports the HDMI 1.4 framepacking transmission format. This format is basically a full resolution 1080P over/under format...

Oh, that warm feeling of deja vu...

[cybereality]

I wonder how good 3D BDs will look if that's all it can manage.

BluRay 3D on PS3 will be the full 1080P24. Its only games that are 720P (unless they drop down to 24fps for 1080P mode).

[wnielsenbb]

I really can't imagine Gran Turismo 5 at 24 Frames per second.

Back to the OP though, afaik you cannot currently get polarized 3D from a ps3 or stand alone 3D Bluray player. I hope I am wrong and someone explains how.
Once the LG 3D projector comes out that will change, but that change will cost a lot of change, 10k probably. I assume someone will make a HDMI 3D to dual HDMI output demultiplexor kinda thing for polarized projection.

[DmitryKo]

someone will make a HDMI 3D to dual HDMI output demultiplexor kinda thing for polarized projection

Or just use Internal DisplayPort 1.2 in the projector, which supports dual-interface stereo, avoiding the need for crazily priced devices needed to overcome deficiencies of the HDMI standard.

DisplayPort heads to TVs with the release of iDP standard
DisplayPort 1.2 released, offers extensive stereo support

[wnielsenbb]

Displayport is still pretty rare. Neither the ps3, nor the samsung 3d Bluray player have displayport output. Neither of my projectors have displayport input. The ps3/player would need 2 in any case, one for each projector, unless you can daisy chain the projectors with displayport, which would be really cool. If you are talking computer output, that is already pretty easy to do passive polarized already.

OT: I went to Best Buy and watched the 3D lcd samsungs and the Panasonic plasma 3D. The plasma may have a better picture (I couldn't tell,) but they really hosed the glasses. They weigh a ton and a super fragile, they were on their 3rd pair and it hadn't been setup that long. Then I saw a video of Motorstorm playing in 3D. Turned out it was the actual game. I played Motorstorm in 3D on a ps3. It was amazing. They said there are 4 3D games out already for the ps3.

[DmitryKo]

Displayport is still pretty rare. Neither the ps3, nor the samsung 3d Bluray player have displayport output.

Well, neither of them have dual HDMI, and HDMI 3D to dual-HDMI converters are simply non-existant (though possible to implement).

he ps3/player would need 2 in any case, one for each projector, unless unless you can daisy chain the projectors with displayport, which would be really cool

Yes, you can daisy chain since DisplayPort is microprotocol based, however this would still require 2 ports on at least one device as well as DisplayPort version 1.2 , not 1.1a used in current devices.

[wnielsenbb]

Exactly, that is why I say you can't do passive polarized with ps3/bluray player yet.

[taz291819]

Exactly, that is why I say you can't do passive polarized with ps3/bluray player yet.

As long as the projector accepts the framepacked signal, which it should, it'll do any conversion that needs to take place.

No company in their right mind would release a FP to consumers that wasn't compatible with 3D Blu-Ray.

[wnielsenbb]

The only 3D projectors on the market were made before the standard. Even if they weren't they are shutterglasses systems, not passive polarized. For passive polarized with current projectors you would need a box that changes the 3D signal into two seperate 2D channels one for each projector.
The new LG 3D projector, when it comes out, does all that internally, including having two seperate projection engines in one box.

[smoothy]

Displayport is still pretty rare. Neither the ps3, nor the samsung 3d Bluray player have displayport output.

Well, neither of them have dual HDMI, and HDMI 3D to dual-HDMI converters are simply non-existant (though possible to implement).

If a company made a hdmi 3d to dual-HDMI converter would it work out of the box for the PS3 without Sony needing to officially support it?

[wnielsenbb]

Yes, it would. There are already such devices to split 1 page flipped 3D signal to 2 seperate hdmi outputs (although limited to 720p.) It is a bit more tricky to convert the new signal, but no reason it couldn't be done.

[smoothy]

Yes, it would. There are already such devices to split 1 page flipped 3D signal to 2 seperate hdmi outputs (although limited to 720p.) It is a bit more tricky to convert the new signal, but no reason it couldn't be done.

If there is already devices that can split a page flip signal into 2 hdmi at 720p then that's awesome. As most PS3 3d titles will be 720p, who makes this device? we could test it out with the current ps3.

[wnielsenbb]

The 3D standard isn't pageflipping. It wouldn't work with the ps3.

[smoothy]

I thought to view a page flip you need active shutterglasses which the PS3 uses. It's basically frame sequential.

[cybereality]

The PS3 doesn't do page-flipping, the TV does.

[wnielsenbb]

The old transmission "standard" was frame sequential, which is basically sending alternating frames for each eye. The ideal was 120Hz leaving 60Hz for each eye. This is employed by nVidia for their nvision 3D, as it was by Wicked 3D 12 years ago. All 3D computer monitors take this signal. You could use the demultiplexor with nvision to split the sequential signal for 2 projectors to do passive 3D. Or you could use the iZ3D or Tri-Def drivers and just use two outputs from the video card.
The second "standard" invented for the DLP 3D TV's is checkerboard where the left and right eye are mashed together keeping the signal at 60Hz. Nvision does support this method too, but it really isn't going anywhere.
The new standard transmission method, used by PS3 and 3D Bluray players, is something else entirely. The new lcd and plasma 3D tv's accept this method. The existing demultiplexors simply need to send alternate frames to the two seperate outputs. A new demultiplexor would have to process that new signal before it could output let and right signals. It wouldn't be nearly as easy.

hope that clears it up,
Warren.

[DmitryKo]

that is why I say you can't do passive polarized with ps3/bluray player yet

The original point is, we were talking about dual projections and you said that someone will made an adaptor that converts HDMI 3D to dual HDMI , and I said DisplayPort 1.2 on the projector would be a better solution overall, because it is natively capable of dual-interface stereo, unlike HDMI, and does support full 120 Hz page flipping even in 1080p.

Another advantage of DisplayPort, at least for the PC, is that it natively supports frame sequential stereo up to 1080p60 per eye even in current v1.1a, and DisplayPort 1.2 dual projector would be far easier to setup with 15 m full-speed 1080p60 transmission with and chaining, comparing to HDMI or VGA.


Of course, none of the above be currently used with the PS3, because there is no active adapter that is able to convert HDMI 3D format to dual HDMI, DisplayPort 1.2 "dual interface" 3D format, or dual DisplayPort, and no DisplayPort projectors in the first place. So yes, no projection on the PS3 for now.

However, my expectation is we'll see a HDMI 3D to DisplayPort 3D adapter rather than a HDMI 3D to dual HDMI adapter, if anything at all, simply because HDMI licensing fees are charged per single port.

[wnielsenbb]

oh, I agree displayport is awesome, even without the 3D considerations. I am just thinking it would be a lot more acceptable for many of us to buy a 3D hdmi to dual hdmi converter than a 3D hdmi to displayport adapter and two new projectors.

[BlackShark]

Display port still suffers from it's small adoption rate by the industry. We don't even know if out brand new ATI graphics cards are DP1.0, DP1.1 or DP2.0 compliant. (they probably are not DP2.0)

Display chaining may appear as a good candidate for dual projector solution. The problem is that you probably won't find DP projectors with an actual DP-out port to plug the chain.
At least the good news is that a generic DP chain demultiplexer would work identically whether it's for 2D or 3D whereas on the hdmi side it would be a 3D only product. So in theory a DP chain demultiplexer would be cheaper than an hdmi 3D demultiplexer (less broad usages = less customers = higher price).

[DmitryKo]

it would be a lot more acceptable for many of us to buy a 3D hdmi to dual hdmi converter than a 3D hdmi to displayport adapter and two new projectors

Whatever. Good luck waiting for an adapter that might never come.

Display port still suffers from it's small adoption rate by the industry

Have you heard about Apple?

Current DisplayPort implementations support DP++ Dual-Mode, that is HDMI/DVI signalling over DisplayPort connector - separate HDMI connector is not really needed anymore (that saves a bit of licensing fees too), all you need is a cheap passive DP-HDMI cable.

http://www.displayport.org/consumer/?q= ... nts#cables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the PC side, things should change pretty fast with Radeon Eyefinity and 3DVision Surround products offering multiple DisplayPort plugs, and monitor panel makers adopting Embedded DisplayPort for internal monitor connections. All you would need for a dual-projector setup is two DP 1.2 ports on the graphics card, Catalyst driver support for DP 1.2 dual interface stereo format, and a pair of passive DP to HDMI cables. The same Quad Buffered Direct3D driver as employed for 120 Hz displays and LC glasses will do the trick for dual projectors and passive glasses.

if brand new ATI graphics cards are DP1.0, DP1.1 or DP2.0 compliant

Since they received their certification in 2008, they are most certainly DP 1.1a. From the practical point of view, DP 1.1 is DP 1.0 with HDCP.

There is no DP 2.0, but there is DP 1.2 which is to appear in end products by Q1 2011.

a generic DP chain demultiplexer would work identically whether it's for 2D or 3D whereas on the hdmi side it would be a 3D only product. So in theory a DP chain demultiplexer would be cheaper than an hdmi 3D demultiplexer

You bet. Parade Technologies PS8318, TI SN75DP128, NXP CBTL06122 and similar DisplayPort demultiplexor chips are available for about $1.5-2.5 in quantities, and they do not even require external power, since the wisdom of the creators of the DisplayPort standard made +5V DC power mandatory in every jack.

So basically you just solder the chip and the three jacks on the print board, and assemble them in a plastic shell.. No licensing fees either.

[BlackShark]

I do not share your optimism regarding DisplayPort adoption by the industry.

Only new ATi gpus come with one DP port
New nvidia cards do not have DP, they have hdmi instead
All the new laptops I see come with either VGA (low end laptops) or hdmi (high end laptops) nowadays. The ones with DVI outputs are exceptions (multi-outputs, laptops with SLI GPUs).

Having an Hdmi port is not technically necassary but is is absolutely mandatory from a commercial point of view because of the entire HDTV market.
Using a DP + a passive DP to hdmi adaptor is not acceptable, even if the adaptor is included, the problem is consumer psychology when seeing there is no hdmi plug on the hardware packaging.

Apple sure is nice but won't change much : most of their sales are Laptops, to which you always use an adapter because the one display you want to plug is either a VGA office projector to do a presentation or an hdmi HDTV, or the imacs which... don't need an additional display (I think they don't even have display outputs).

I really hope Embedded DP will be the turning point but we now have to see display manufacturers massively adopting the format and add some DP plugs on every monitor, not only the super-high-end HP and Dell displays which already have every single input available on their backs.
Alright I'm caricaturing a bit but there just aren't many DP displays on the market.

[DmitryKo]

Apple sure is nice but won't change much : most of their sales are Laptops
All the new laptops I see come with either VGA (low end laptops) or hdmi (high end laptops) nowadays.
Having an Hdmi port is not technically necassary but is is absolutely mandatory from a commercial point of view because of the entire HDTV market.

This will change as laptops are getting slimmier and lighter, and more DP-only monitors such as Apple 24" LED Cinema Display appear. The trend is quite strong.

If Apple can get away with only offering DisplayPort through their entire line, other manufacturers can get away with it too. Just include a $5 DisplayPort-HDMI cable, like they have been doing for years with proprietary miniDIN-YPbPr-Composite adapters, and a $20 DisplayPort-VGA adapter will do the trick for those who really need VGA for some reason.

Analog component (VGA/YCbCr) and Dual-Link DVI are legacy standards that have no future in the PC industry, and HDMI in consumer electronics will probaly soon give up quite a bit of market share to wireless standards like WHDI and WirelessHD (while HMDI are spending their resources on "HDMI with Ethernet" in the age of Wireless LAN in the home... these guys must be crazy).

[wnielsenbb]

of the over 200 lcd monitors sold by Newegg exactly ZERO have display port. That is not a strong trend.
I do like display port though, and do hope it does win out in the end. You really can't say it is winning now anymore than you can say Memory sticks are winning because sony uses them.

[DmitryKo]

If Newegg currently does not list any single DisplayPort monitor, it doesn't mean the sales of DisplayPort monitors are not steadily growing; the number of DisplayPort-enabled monitors sure grows each year (excuse me but I won't bother building a trend line for this function in order to illustrate).

[Fredz]

excuse me but I won't bother building a trend line for this function in order to illustrate.

There, fixed for you :
Google Trends for DisplayPort : http://www.google.com/trends?q=DisplayPort" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Google Trends for DisplayPort, HDMI, DVI and VGA : http://www.google.com/trends?q=DisplayPort,hdmi,dvi,vga" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[wnielsenbb]

I assume the trend for the Memory Stick vs SD and others would be very comparable.

[DmitryKo]

Funny tool, even though it's not really a sales trend.


Looks like in recent years DisplayPort is actually growing faster than HDMI, but DVI and VGA are in decline.


HDMI citation trend:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=HDMI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Memory Stick and other proprietary formats are in decline as well.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=MemorySt ... SmartMedia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fredz]

Looks like in recent years DisplayPort is actually growing faster than HDMI, but DVI and VGA are in decline.

That's a way to read this trend line. Taking the scale into account, another way would say that DisplayPort is not even on the radar compared to HDMI or even DVI and VGA. Your mileage may vary...

[DmitryKo]

I still remember the days when DVI then HDMI were in the same starting position with very little availability. The trend is, DisplayPort usage is growing.