3D Cam Buddy Alignment Monitor

[WheatstoneHolmes]

Here is a dual camera alignment tool for those that have 2 cam setups and need to adjust for depth in the field!

You know who you are (AnotherFrench)...

http://www.3dexperience.co.uk/cambuddy.html

[anotherFrench]

aww! I'd love to have 1 of those but it's probably way out of my budget so I guess I'll still have to learn how to improve my settings manually

[WheatstoneHolmes]

Or if you have a laptop maybe you could figure out a way to make 2 video input usb devices work.

I put an old TV card in my desktop PC along with a newer TV card and was able to see both of my old camcorders on the screen at the same time, maybe a laptop could do the same?

[anotherFrench]

sorry for the late answer, I've been gone as they was a big celebration in my city
anyway... I'd really like to find something like this as I have a very big problem with my setup:
I mounted it with a séparation of 6.4cm (about 2 inch I think) between the 2 camescope to reproduce the average distance between 2 eyes, so the probleme is that it's not possible to open the 1 lcd screen that's between the 2 cams and it's very dificult to see it and make the proper adjustments for the convergence.
I don't have any apropriate laptop (mine is so old it doesn't even have usb ports) but I hope I will find a solution with an external lcd tv screen or something like that.
I already tryed with a portable crt device (12cm screen) it's good but it's heavy and needs lot of batteries to work so I think I'll buy later on a small pocket lcd tv if it's not too expensive and have a video in conexion
it's not perfect but this way I can place it above or beside the 1 lcd monitor from the first cam and at least see clearly what's going in the 2nd cam to make better adjustments

[WheatstoneHolmes]

A portable DVD player with video input might work for you, they sometimes have rechargable batteries or work on only a few batteries.

eBay is probably a good place to look.

EDIT: check this out http://www.prodigy-electronics.com/inde ... 9qpv29qas6

AND

http://www.amazon.com/Sonic-Impact-Port ... B000JSSY74

they may have something like this where you live also.

[anotherFrench]

yes, that's what I'm looking for, I will see if I can something similar here in france

ps: if only I could connect both cams on something like this
http://www.dimipro.fr/auvisio-lunettes- ... -2620.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pps:
just ordered this 1, they say it have rechargable batteries and in & out av conector so I think it should work but I feel a bit nervous about the often inacurate specification given on that site
I just hope I won't have to send it back
http://www.cdiscount.com//search/PDX-12 ... h=PDX-1200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WheatstoneHolmes]

Hope the DVD gadget works for you.

Yeah a dual cam HMD would be great, then you could see in 3D whereever you go! Awesome!

[anotherFrench]

I'm thinking about the cam buddy, how about reaping 2 cheap 7" monitors appart and place them both ... (sorry dont know how to say that in english)... like a "double screen layer", 1 in front of the other.. I hope I'm making sens LOL
if the back light is strong enough you could see both the images superposed like on the cam buddy, real nice to see separation/convergence and adjust them

[WheatstoneHolmes]

That might work.

[DavidGhast]

what exactly is the point of this device, to see a 3d image on a 2d screen? thats not going to help you see the disparity of your scene.

[cybereality]

Ok, what about a pass-through type device that could quickly flip between two source signals. So you would only need one portable LCD screen and the device would sort of multiplex the signals into one constant stream that alternated between each view. Seems a lot easier to build then the double-screen device you are talking about. So it would look something like this:

[anotherFrench]

what exactly is the point of this device, to see a 3d image on a 2d screen? thats not going to help you see the disparity of your scene.

no, I'm not trying to see it in 3D, what I need is to see both pictures to make better adjustment between the 2 cams.
as it is now, I can not see verry well what I capture with the 2nd cam, (the screen is partially hidden between the 2 cams) so I can't adjust the convergence very well.

if you look at the sample vidéos I posted here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 713#p26713" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you can see that the convergence is not good and 1 of the vidéos is a little higher than the other, also I had to rotate 1 of the views that was captured with a slightly different vertical angle.
it would be very easyer to see both source vidéos superposed over each other to make those settings right.

Ok, what about a pass-through type device that could quickly flip between two source signals. So you would only need one portable LCD screen and the device would sort of multiplex the signals into one constant stream that alternated between each view. Seems a lot easier to build then the double-screen device you are talking about. So it would look something like this:

that would be nice but it's not what I need, I have to see clearly both images to adjust their onscreen position, also it doesn't look much easyer to build as you need to find a way to connect both cams on the screen and make that flipping effect between the 2 of them would be verry complicated

[cybereality]

You could carry around a laptop and use the Stereoscopic Multiplexer:

http://www.3dtv.at/Products/Multiplexer/Index_en.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems a little cumbersome for outdoor work, not sure what to do about that though.

[anotherFrench]

could be interesting, I wonder if it would work on a cheap netbook, much easyer to carry or to fix to the cams rig than a laptop

[DavidGhast]

why are you worrying about IO on your setup when you dont have a slide plate to adjust it?

[Tril]

For a specific zoom and a specific distance between the cameras, there is a distance at which what you film will be at screen depth. Closer to the camera will popout and farther will be in the screen. You could experiment with different zoom and distance between the cameras and note the screen depth distance and make yourself some table with the data. Then you just have to use your data afterwards. It should work as long as your cameras are always well aligned the same way.

[anotherFrench]

why are you worrying about IO on your setup when you dont have a slide plate to adjust it?

I'm sorry, I don't understand what "IO" is
I'm planning to change the all thing, I'm not satisfy with the actual setup who shows too many shortcomings
* 1 of the cam is filming higher than the other,
* 1 is rotated so the 2 views are not exactly parallel and I have to turn it a little in post prod
* I can not see very well what I do on the 2nd screen so it's difficult to adjust all of that
* I wnt to be able to change the convergence, maybe with a small electric motor

For a specific zoom and a specific distance between the cameras, there is a distance at which what you film will be at screen depth. Closer to the camera will popout and farther will be in the screen. You could experiment with different zoom and distance between the cameras and note the screen depth distance and make yourself some table with the data. Then you just have to use your data afterwards. It should work as long as your cameras are always well aligned the same way.

that's what I was trying to do untill now but it's not working for me, it's too hard to align the cams with the fixation I made and without seeing both screens properlly, I hope it will work better after a few changes.
I'll try to use a graduation system on the support to easelly set both cams to the right convergence but instead of marking the angle between them, I'll just mark the distance it's converging too. Then I think it should be very easy and fast to adjust.

ps,
I received the portable dvd device and as I feard, it has no av in conection so I can't use it as external screen

[WheatstoneHolmes]

Sorry to hear that, hope you can send it back.

Wow, that is is a real pain!

I would have thought that a portable DVD player would have video in.

[anotherFrench]

yes I'll send it back but I've been looking for something that would do the trick like the portable tv as you posted earlyer, they seems to be very hard to find in france but I'm sur I'll find something.
I'm not in the hurry anyway as I need to work on my rig first and I hope to come out with something good

[DavidGhast]

IO as in interocular, the distance between the foci of the cameras. If your cameras arent on a slideplate, then how do you intended to adjust them?

If your hoping for a consumer level stereo preview solution, then you're going to have to wait a decade or two. The cheapest way to go is to do alot of testing and get a feel for what you will need in a given shot without actually seeing it.

[anotherFrench]

IO as in interocular, the distance between the foci of the cameras. If your cameras arent on a slideplate, then how do you intended to adjust them?

If your hoping for a consumer level stereo preview solution, then you're going to have to wait a decade or two. The cheapest way to go is to do alot of testing and get a feel for what you will need in a given shot without actually seeing it.

I'm not sure about the necessity to adjust that, I still hesitate between fixing it at 6.4cm (about 2 or 2.5 inches) and an adjustable rig, I think it's better to have adjustable convergence but I'll see, if it's not too complicated then I will another way that I was thinking about to adjust separation but I'm afraid that to many moving parts could become a problem for such a rig that I want to be able to transport and manipulate a lot wich can be tricky if too many parts.
the 2 cams will be mounted on 2 separate plates anyway so there is many chances that I try to do it, I'm just not sure right now

[anotherFrench]

I found a small lcd tv
http://www.ventespublique.com/boutique/ ... _fr&num=11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I just received it today and the av-in works
I will need some time to buy and charge 10 small batteries but I made a short test and was amazed to see how wrong everything was..
the problems were those I mentionned before but much more accentuate than I tought. 1 of the cam is capturing much higher than the other, the picture is a few degres rotated and convergence was very wrong.
no wonder my vids are looking so bad, I'm now looking for parts to mount a better rig so I hope this won't take too much time

one other thing, when I saw the little tv, first thing I tought was "why the hell try to superpose 2 screen when I could simply build a small planar 3D screen?" so I'll see later if I want to buy a 2nd one to do that but now first thing first, I need to work on my rig

[WheatstoneHolmes]

That's funny, I just thought of the mini-planar idea last night and was coming here to tell you.

[cybereality]

It sounds like you need a twin camera bar. Otherwise its going to be very difficult to keep the cameras aligned properly.

http://www.3dstereo.com/viewmaster/sca-bar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[anotherFrench]

I started to draw plans to build something easyer to use than those, I'm not posting them here because I don't know how to describe the parts in english so I just posted it on a french forum:
http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Hardware/2 ... m#t7015311" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it should give better results because with it I should be able to adjust everything from the convergence to the precise position and alignment of the cams.
something that I like about the idea is that both cams should be able to converge at the same point with the same angle, I mean if I rotate 1 cam 15° clockwise, than the other will rotate 15° "not clockwise" so the point of convergence always be at the middle of both cams (hope I make sens)

also I've been thinking about adding some stuff just for fun like 2 laser beams to see exactly where the convergence is or a little motor to adjust it with a push of a buton.
I wanted to start a topic in DIY section of mtbs but my bad english ...

****************************************************************
I will try to explain what I'm trying to do so be prepared tu use a good dictionary LOL :



as you can see on the first drawing, the 2 red wheels are the ones supporting the cams, they are not touching each-other but are linked together by the blue wheels so when 1 of the red turns 1 way, the 2nd turn the other way to keep the convergence right at the middle.
they also can turn arround the blue ones to adjust the separation between the 2 cams

the green little part is a errrr... somethink like this:


it could be drived with a small motor to adjust the convergence automaticly

the other drawing is a side view of how everything is mounted together and how I adjust the vertical angle of the cams

voila, I hope this is still readable , it doesn't show the laser as this is just a idea and I'll think about it later and I hope this can work fine

[WheatstoneHolmes]

Wow! Can't wait to see it in practice.