Hello! I have some questions.

Don't know the first thing about S-3D? Just bought your first pair of 3D glasses? Trying to figure out what to buy? Post HERE!
Post Reply
Arturo
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 2:15 pm

Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Arturo »

Hi!

I'm thinking about getting a Stereoscopic Monitor. I've been playing in anaglyph mode with the iZ3d drivers for some weeks and I think it's really cool. The problem is I don't know if the technology is still too green. I've been reading about the Iz3d monitor and everyone seems to say that the ghosting is awful, and I'm already having problems in anaglyph mode because of that in some games like Bioshock. Also I've read that they are going to release a better glasses, but I don't know if they are going to fix the problem or just atenuate it.

So I've been searching for another 3d solutions and I've been comparing prices.

The Zalman Monitor:
http://cgi.ebay.es/Zalman-ZM-M220W-22-2 ... 1|294%3A50

The Iz3d Monitor:
http://cgi.ebay.es/iZ3D-H220Z1-Gaming-L ... .m63.l1177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Samsung Monitor + glasses:
http://www.alternate.es/html/productDet ... tno=v5luz9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


So, which monitor do you think it's better? Iz3d? The 120 Hz Samsung monitor with the nVision thing? Or the Zalman ZM-M220W? Will I have any problem with games support if I'm playing under Windows XP x64? Could I use the iZ3d drivers with the other monitors?

Thank you for your answers! :D

PS: Sorry about my english, I'm spanish. :oops:
User avatar
Neil
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 6882
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Neil »

Don't go by formal hardware reviews - go according to people who have both solutions. You are wise to ask members to share their experiences:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/newslette ... ews_id=74/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speaking factually, the ghosting is not awful on the iZ3D, especially with the new glasses in development. The NVIDIA solution is good too, and they both have their respective advantages and disadvantages.

Regards,
Neil
Arturo
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 2:15 pm

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Arturo »

Thank you for your answer. :wink:
Neil wrote:Don't go by formal hardware reviews - go according to people who have both solutions.
So, what solution do you prefer? Is the Samsung Monitor + nVidia 3dVision solution completly free of ghosting?
User avatar
Neil
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 6882
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Neil »

It's not my place to recommend one solution over another. There will be some crosstalk no matter what solution you use.

Other things to consider include comfort and software compatibility.

Regards,
Neil
dreamingawake
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:58 am

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by dreamingawake »

I own both so I can state my opinion.

The Iz3d solution is absolutely amazing, especially for the price/performance ratio.

The 3d is passive, the glasses are extremely comfortable and stylish to boot. Not
to mention extra pairs are very inexpensive, so ordering more than a few pairs isn't
going to hurt your wallet.

The Iz3d monitor also produces some of the best 3d images I've seen.
The driver, and customer support is phenomenal, some of the best in the business .. EVER.

3d Vision from Nvidia is pretty sweet.

The glasses are a little less comfortable, but they don't really bug ya.
The ghosting is much less apparent, however it still exists, so don't expect it to be flawless.
The price is a little higher, and the support from the manufacturer isn't as good as Iz3d's,
but honestly it's not that hard to figure out.

If I were you I would go with the Iz3d ! But that's just my opinion.

Happy 3d-ing :)
gicko
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by gicko »

zalman is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gicko
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by gicko »

i bought IZ3D FIRSTLY and for 5 months now i use only the perfect ZALMAN monitor with no ghosting at all. I OWN BOTH OF THEM AND I DONT BELIEVE THAT IZ3D WILL BE PERFECT SOME DAY!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
Likay
Petrif-Eyed
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Likay »

I think the new glasses for the iz3d needs a mention. :D Some info by Yuriy Here
I'm also a betatester of the glasses and my experiences matches yuriys.
@gicko: I think you should try these when they are ready. We (betatesters) had two tests with new glasses and i can assure the experience is way better with those. Still not perfect but way acceptable. I don't know a releasedate for the new glasses but check out the iz3d-forums and site for news. It feels like the release should be quite close for now.

The zalman isn't perfect in any way either. Some find the interlacing of the zalman disturbing while others don't. There's one specific "sweet spot" in front of the monitor where you have a proper experience while viewing from the sides or from lower or upper spots gives and unproper vision. The ghostingrejection seems to be good with the zalman. The zalman can be run with both newer nvidiadrivers and the iz3d drivers. It probably also works with nvidia old-school (winxp, up to 7900 nvidiacard) drivers which gives you alot of oppurtunities to play your older games too.

The nvidia 3d-vision obviously tampers with some amount of ghosting (at least with the Samsung 2233RZ that's included in the bundle) according to user threads on the nvidiaforums. The ghosting seems somewhat equivalent to an old setup with crt/shutters. 3d-vision works only with newer drivers from nvidia and because of the needed usb-dongle it might stay that way. It's most probable that ghosting is decreased with a better monitor/projector. 3d-vision can only be used with winvista and above and an nvidiacard 8000 series and above. Newer 260-280-295 series is "above". :D

The iz3d suffers a bit from "transparent" ghosting. It's not always hard contrast situations that makes the ghosting visible. More brighter areas in all like the sky etc. New glasses decreases the ghosting to a fully acceptable level if you ask me. It's not totally gone in any way but the experience is more than decent compared with the other solutions. The iz3d works with iz3d-drivers and "old-school" nvidiadrivers. You need a dual output videocard. For the iz3d-drivers it doesn't matter if it's ati or nvidia. No support for opengl (doom3, quake4 and prey) games yet. Most games uses directx though.

Another but expensive option should be going for a "passive projector rig". It has no visible ghosting and a high light output. If you choose your equipmnet carefully from start you're going to get the most probably best experience a 3d-rig can give. It's expensive though (2 projectors, "silverscreen" and polarizsed filters, some very expensive).
It has a very high softwarecompability (nvidia old-school, ddd as well as iz3d-drivers, peter wimmers player etc etc). You need a videocard with dual outputs for this though. The only thing not supporting this rig is newer nvidiadrivers... :lol: You need one pair of cheap polarized glasses for each viewer.

Another option with two projectors would be using infititec filters (colorfiltering but in no way comparable with anaglyph) and projectors. This works similar to a passive polarized projector rig but with no need for the special silverscreen. I have no personal experience of this rig (ghosting rejection, brigtness etc). Same software requirements as above mentioned polarized projector rig.

I'm not excpecting any future support from nvidia for these passive setups though. :(

I have a dual passive projectors setup as well as an iz3d. I gamed quite some time with e-dimensional glasses before. What i wrote about the zalman and 3d-vision is what i caught by reading the forums. I don't have any personal experience of those though. :oops:
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Image
Arturo
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 2:15 pm

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Arturo »

Thank you foir your replies!

So, the Samsung monitor with the nVidia glasses does have ghosting also? I thought that with the shutter glasses technology that was impossible.

I think I'm going to try with the Iz3d monitor. I don't have Windows Vista and the iZ3d driver seems to have better support. I just have some more questions: Have you played BioShock with the new glasses? Does it have too much ghosting? Do you get used to ghosting and "learn" to ignore it? It's just that in some of the Yuri's pics the ghosting seems to be really noticeable.

By the way, there is some way to reduce ghosting in Anaglyph mode with the iZ3d drivers? I have some of it in the red side of the glasses.
User avatar
WheatstoneHolmes
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 6:51 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by WheatstoneHolmes »

Or you could try to build your own passive mirror setup with 2 monitors like this:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2935

http://3dbruce.blogspot.com/2008/01/poo ... nitor.html

http://www.csloh.com/research/diy-3d-viewer-2/

I have made some tests with a wooden frame and a clear sheet of acrylic, it actually works fairly well and when I get the proper mirror I think it would be perfect, no ghosting or very, very little.

All you need are 2 LCD monitors, a frame or holder of some kind, dual output graphics card, driver for stereo 3D (nVidia, IZ3D, etc.), some 0/90 polarized glasses.

Good luck!
I came here to chew bubblegum and to see 3D...and I'm all out of bubblegum!
-----------------------
Me on YouTube, you watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/WheatstoneHolmes
sharky
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 1819
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 4:08 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by sharky »

hi! i have tested only the iz3d.
the new glasses lower theghosting a LOT. i have both pairs of beta glasses and the difference is really incredible. the color difference is totally gone, and the ghosting is more or less 10% of before.. i really enjoy the new glasses.

regards

igor
Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitute it for my own."
Jamie Hyneman: "It's really cool, but really unusual."

Image
User avatar
Likay
Petrif-Eyed
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Likay »

Arturo wrote:Thank you foir your replies!

So, the Samsung monitor with the nVidia glasses does have ghosting also? I thought that with the shutter glasses technology that was impossible.

I think I'm going to try with the Iz3d monitor. I don't have Windows Vista and the iZ3d driver seems to have better support. I just have some more questions: Have you played BioShock with the new glasses? Does it have too much ghosting? Do you get used to ghosting and "learn" to ignore it? It's just that in some of the Yuri's pics the ghosting seems to be really noticeable.

By the way, there is some way to reduce ghosting in Anaglyph mode with the iZ3d drivers? I have some of it in the red side of the glasses.
The shutters are probably fine but the samsung monitor that's bundled with the glasses seems to have no better stereoproperties than an old crt/shutter setup. It doesn't mean it's too bad though. However: The iz3d experience is way better than e-dimensional glasses and a philips crt i once owned. I don't know about bioshock since it was some time ago i've played it. At that moment there was quite a few anomalies caused by software. No worse than the game was way playable with reduced settings.
Regarding your anaglyph glasses it's most probably the red filter that lets through some amount of the other colors and therefore causes ghosting. Different monitors gives slightly different results because the colors of the pixels aren't the same from screen to screen...
Ghosting and retinal rivalry is also caused by the anaglyph stereoconversion. To at least avoid these phenomenas you can try gaming with the option "anaglyph grey" option. It eliminates eyerivalry and software ghosting but the final image is experienced "black/white".

Testimage on megaupload. It has to stay as a bmp-file, otherwise colors gets way distorted.

Test using a decent pair of anaglyph glasses (Thanks Freke! :) ):
Image

Test using Lee-filters: Ht026 for the red and ht116 for the cyan:
Image

And now it turned out to be a very lengthy post again sry... :oops: :woot
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Image
User avatar
WheatstoneHolmes
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 6:51 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by WheatstoneHolmes »

TLDR

He He He He!

Couldn't resist, sorry. :D
I came here to chew bubblegum and to see 3D...and I'm all out of bubblegum!
-----------------------
Me on YouTube, you watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/WheatstoneHolmes
User avatar
cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 11407
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by cybereality »

I've got a Zalman Trimon, I don't know about the other solutions. What I do know is that the Zalman is a fine piece of equipment. The ghosting is minimal if you are in the "sweet-spot". The image is also very sharp and clear, nice colors and everything. The interlacing does not both me at all, I hardly notice it. The screen works with the old nvidia XP drivers, the new Vista drivers and also the IZ3D drivers (sold separately). I've played Bioshock with this monitor (w/ nvidia vista drivers) and it looked really good, some of the best 3D I've ever seen. Honestly you'd probably be happy with any solution you get, they're all pretty good but I like the Zalman.
User avatar
Likay
Petrif-Eyed
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Likay »

WheatstoneHolmes wrote:TLDR

He He He He!

Couldn't resist, sorry. :D

:lol: I filled your mailbox too! :P :twisted:
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Image
Arturo
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 2:15 pm

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Arturo »

I think those mirror monitors rigs are too much for me. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If I get the Iz3d, how could I get one of those beta glasses you are all talking about? Do they have an aproximate release date for the glasses?
User avatar
yuriythebest
Petrif-Eyed
Posts: 2476
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:35 pm
Location: Kiev, ukraine

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by yuriythebest »

howdy!
I think those mirror monitors rigs are too much for me. :lol: :lol: :lol:
yeah, they iz big
If I get the Iz3d, how could I get one of those beta glasses you are all talking about?
atm beta testing is over I think
Do they have an aproximate release date for the glasses?
none that I know of, my guesstimate would be at least several more months.


remember that the ghosting even with the old glasses is not as disastrous as people make it out to be.
Oculus Rift / 3d Sucks - 2D FTW!!!
User avatar
phil
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by phil »

Another factor that might be of interest is the screen's compatibility with consoles.

The 19" Zalman (ZM-M190) can display interlaced 3D output from an Xbox 360, but not PS3.
The 22" Zalman (ZM-M220) isn't 3D-compatible with any console.

The iZ3D monitors currently available aren't 3D-compatible with any console, but I gather iZ3D have been working on a new version that can accept side-by-side input (making it 3D-compatible with any console, even Wii) 8)
User avatar
yuriythebest
Petrif-Eyed
Posts: 2476
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:35 pm
Location: Kiev, ukraine

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by yuriythebest »

phil wrote:
The iZ3D monitors currently available aren't 3D-compatible with any console, but I gather iZ3D have been working on a new version that can accept side-by-side input (making it 3D-compatible with any console, even Wii) 8)
yup those were demonstrated - at CES I think
Oculus Rift / 3d Sucks - 2D FTW!!!
User avatar
Rosomack
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:45 pm
Location: Gdansk, Poland

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Rosomack »

I wonder how the consoles will handle s3d to keep fps smooth enough.
Image
Image
User avatar
phil
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by phil »

Rosomack wrote:I wonder how the consoles will handle s3d to keep fps smooth enough.
I think they'll do just fine 8) There's plenty of clever optimisations that can be made for stereo. The more developers work two-eyed, the more these optimisations will be turfed-up and worked into the engines.

Of course, there are some really dirty ones too, like only refreshing one eye each frame :? Or generating the stereo pair from the Z-buffer :lol:

But seriously, console game developers are used to using as much or as little frame-time as they have available, and making their game look great regardless. If the stereo budget means they have to make-do without this season's hippest post-processing, so be it! :P
User avatar
WheatstoneHolmes
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 6:51 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by WheatstoneHolmes »

From what I've read/heard the PS3 programmers are to this day not using the max processing the machine is capable of.

As for the XBox360, a some of the game videos show a lot of slowdown/hesitation. (source: Xplay and others)
I came here to chew bubblegum and to see 3D...and I'm all out of bubblegum!
-----------------------
Me on YouTube, you watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/WheatstoneHolmes
User avatar
cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 11407
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by cybereality »

If my old Pentium4 machine with a GeForce 6800 can do stereo3d then I'm sure the PS3 and Xbox360 will have no problem with it. Sure they will have to cut some corners somewhere but it can be done.
gicko
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by gicko »

I Insist that the ZALMAN solution is the best solution for stereo images. FOR GAMES AND FOR WORK!
i mean when a person want to see the animations that he created with a 3d program like C4D for example, then for me the stereo animations are best viewed with the ZALMAN and only with the Zalman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and your brain is in complete NIRVANA....ITS NOT AT ALL THE SAME WITH THE IZ3D. I TRIED MANY TIMES WITHOUT SUCCESS..... PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
Rosomack
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:45 pm
Location: Gdansk, Poland

Re: Hello! I have some questions.

Post by Rosomack »

WheatstoneHolmes wrote:From what I've read/heard the PS3 programmers are to this day not using the max processing the machine is capable of.
If that's the case, ps3 might soon become the platform of choice. Imagine 3d plus this amazing new ps3 motion controller shown on e3. :D It has the potential to be mind blowing, but time will tell.
Image
Image
Post Reply

Return to “I'm New To Stereoscopic 3D!”