My Nvidia 3D Vision Review

Post by **1wayjonny** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:39 pm

I have been able to replicate this and have my own idea's. I have also tracked this down to the color of white and and light sources. In left 4 dead this happens on certain areas

The crazy thing i have found a solution , change the current resolution and the effect will go away then you can change back to your preferred resolution. What happens to me is that the left eye data gets over staurated with brightness adjustment that screams like its bleeding white.

Please close one of the eyes and confirm this is only happening to 1 side for the 3d effect then let me know if changing resolution while in game fixes it.

this is a crazy bug that has hit a couple games but is very inconsistent.

rkuo wrote:Figure I'll post here first instead of creating another thread.

I received the Samsung monitor + glasses bundle on Wednesday. I've been trying to get this game to work properly with Mirror's edge for a while as well as other games.

The major problem I'm encountering is that there is serious ghosting....or at least, serious to a newbie like me. It's especially pronounced in white areas and makes it really hard to focus on the scene in question.

I'm not entirely sure whether it's the monitor or the glasses that's causing the problem, but I'm starting to suspect the glasses. If the glasses are on, and you hold down the power button, it appears to test one or both of the lenses by activating the lens and holding it. When a lens is on like this, I can look through the lens and see that the image on the screen is still visible. Actually, what's happening is that only the part of the lens which i'm looking straight into is blocking the light ... the rest of the lens is just very, but not perfectly opaque. It's almost as if the curvature of the lens means only the part that's right between my eye and the screen can block light decently. On the other hand, maybe it's the monitor too. Who knows? It's hard to tell, and there's no 3d screenshot function for me to test with either.

Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone else is experiencing ghosting issues with this kit and/or monitor. Are there combinations of hardware that might fix this problem...different glasses, different monitor, or what? I really can't take much more of this ... for 600 + the amt I spent to get a computer ready to play these games, I expect working hardware.

Post by **rkuo** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:08 pm

1wayjonny wrote:I have been able to replicate this and have my own idea's. I have also tracked this down to the color of white and and light sources. In left 4 dead this happens on certain areas

The crazy thing i have found a solution , change the current resolution and the effect will go away then you can change back to your preferred resolution. What happens to me is that the left eye data gets over staurated with brightness adjustment that screams like its bleeding white.

Please close one of the eyes and confirm this is only happening to 1 side for the 3d effect then let me know if changing resolution while in game fixes it.

this is a crazy bug that has hit a couple games but is very inconsistent.

Not at my comp but I can definitely tell you I see image from one eye leaking to the other eye in both eyes. It's sometimes not as obvious in one eye b/c the ghosting effect to one side may fall in an area that is less pronounced or obvious when looking through the other eye.

Post by **kekewons** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:15 pm

Apologies, people for my part in this latest "flame war."

It seems every forum I ever join has at least one member who always wants to pick a fight...

...and, having been through this many times before, I suppose I tend, these days, to "bristle" (early and often) at the first sign of confrontation.

Hope it didn't ruin anyone's evening.

k

Post by **artox** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:35 am

Gametrailers review/promotion - for geforce 3d glasses
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/44765.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Everything is explained "for dummies" in the review, which is great, considering that this site is visited by a vast majority of 2d gamers, which don't really knoa anything about the existence of 3d as a possibility.

Post by **artox** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:43 am

I have a question, some of you have said that the new 3d glasses from nvidia used together with the sams 120hz monitor deliver less ghosting than a crt +edimensionals/elsa. Has anyone actually compared the effect from the new glases on a crt with the effect of the edimensionals on a crt ( and yes I do realise that you have to have two systems - one with the new drivers and an older one).
I'm interested in how much nvidia have lifted their fingers to improve a tech that has been there or quite a while now, and how much they are using "the time is right" moment to copy and paste a "new" solution now that they can, given the 120hz lcds are finally to be released. (sorry for the sarcasm, but if I say that I have nothing against Nvidia it would be a lie, most of the 3d gamers will understand my feelings, connected with the sudden lack of driver support a few years back)

Post by **snaileri** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:25 am

I Just found out some info about European release time:
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?optio ... 7&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

March '09 they say...

Post by **1wayjonny** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:58 am

I miss read what he wrote this is a separate issue that i have come across and would like some other users to check out.

This is not a samsung or glasses issue its a software issue, you all know how 3D works good old left or right but the left side go in and out of SUPER saturated brightness which i can move my character and the effect goes away, then i move the character back to the same spot and it comes back.

I will do this through certain parts of the map in left 4 dead esp. Harvest Blood (last chapter to choose) it feels like your being brain washed because it goes on and off. not quickly either like a flicker but a steady on and off (depends on what is on screen and where I can standing (seems to be bright colors and light sources that trigger it)

Right side normal brightness, left side hurting. The way I got around this is to change the resolution in game and it goes away then i switch it back to the res i was working with. this fixes it but its very annoying, it doesn't come back either but if i didn't try changing resolutions to fix the issue i would be reloading 50% of the games because i would have to quit then come back instead of a ingame resolution change

This has only happened in left 4 dead

1wayjonny wrote:I have been able to replicate this and have my own idea's. I have also tracked this down to the color of white and and light sources. In left 4 dead this happens on certain areas

The crazy thing i have found a solution , change the current resolution and the effect will go away then you can change back to your preferred resolution. What happens to me is that the left eye data gets over saturated with brightness adjustment that screams like its bleeding white.

Please close one of the eyes and confirm this is only happening to 1 side for the 3d effect then let me know if changing resolution while in game fixes it.

this is a crazy bug that has hit a couple games but is very inconsistent.

Post by **The_Doctor** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:48 am

With the new drivers and nvidia shutterglasses vs another eye shutterglasses on a crt there is zero difference in ghosting.

The lcd monitor must make the difference. I must revise my original estimation to 60-70% of crt ghosting on the lcd versus old crt. So still there.

artox wrote:I have a question, some of you have said that the new 3d glasses from nvidia used together with the sams 120hz monitor deliver less ghosting than a crt +edimensionals/elsa. Has anyone actually compared the effect from the new glases on a crt with the effect of the edimensionals on a crt ( and yes I do realise that you have to have two systems - one with the new drivers and an older one).
I'm interested in how much nvidia have lifted their fingers to improve a tech that has been there or quite a while now, and how much they are using "the time is right" moment to copy and paste a "new" solution now that they can, given the 120hz lcds are finally to be released. (sorry for the sarcasm, but if I say that I have nothing against Nvidia it would be a lie, most of the 3d gamers will understand my feelings, connected with the sudden lack of driver support a few years back)

Post by **The_Doctor** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:11 pm

Reinstalled video drivers and the color adjustments now work in game as well and not only on the desktop.

Post by **artox** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:14 pm

Thanks for the quick reply

It's weird that a lcd, which is brighter and with a higher response time actually than a crt gives less ghosting than one.

Post by **The_Doctor** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:34 pm

artox wrote:Thanks for the quick reply It's weird that a lcd, which is brighter and with a higher response time actually than a crt gives less ghosting than one.

Maybe my crt is too crappy, might have different result on a very good quality crt.

Post by **delyrious** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:29 pm

I have a question...... could I use my Samsung ssg1000(tri-def) shutters and emitter (3d sync ported to the Samsung pn50a450) -plus also the Nvidia glasses using the usb dongle to sync the Nvidia glasses at the pc effectively enabling checkerboard and increasing my viewing options????? Could it be possible that the two haven't plotted against me after all?? I would gladly purchase the Nvidia set immediately!!! This could help quite a few people desire to purchase both products...or at least keep their hair.

Probably a dumb question but worth a try.

Samsung pn50a450 (50"3d ready plasma)
ssg1000 (DDD/Samasung glasses kit) x2
9800GTX+
Q8200 quad
p7n mobo
8g DDR2
Vista 64/XP

Post by **pixel67** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:58 pm

delyrious wrote:I have a question...... could I use my Samsung ssg1000(tri-def) shutters and emitter (3d sync ported to the Samsung pn50a450) -plus also the Nvidia glasses using the usb dongle to sync the Nvidia glasses at the pc effectively enabling checkerboard and increasing my viewing options????? Could it be possible that the two haven't plotted against me after all?? I would gladly purchase the Nvidia set immediately!!! This could help quite a few people desire to purchase both products...or at least keep their hair. Probably a dumb question but worth a try.

Samsung pn50a450 (50"3d ready plasma)
ssg1000 (DDD/Samasung glasses kit) x2
9800GTX+
Q8200 quad
p7n mobo
8g DDR2
Vista 64/XP

It will work however you need to purchase a splitter cable for the DIN3 connection coming out of the back of your HDTV. This would allow you to run both emitters at the same time. I don't believe the emitters and glasses are cross compatible.

Post by **Damo3000** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Im wondering wether the IR emitters will conflict with each other (Edimensional High Powered Emitter vs Nvidia Emiiter)! All these flashing IR beams, I cant see it working. My glasses are gonna be here in 2 days! Ultra fast delivery, I just ordered yesterday! And Im in Canada. Got my Vista box setup and installing games as we speak. I tried Gears of War in Anaglyph and it actually didnt look too bad! Heres hoping for 85hz pageflipping once again! Finally!!

I'll be reporting back for sure!

Post by **delyrious** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:22 am

Thanks for the posts...

If they are not cross compatible then, wouldn't that also mean they will not interfere with each other as the transmitters are sending at different frequencies? Either way- that part should be OK right?.
So I suppose the key question would be...... as the Samsung 50" plasma (pn50a450) is unlike DLPs with regard to refresh rate/Hz, will it even work with the NVIDIA drivers/ glasses & emitter? Unfortunately it is still beyond the scope of my understanding how the difference in Plasma (random refresh up to 100Hz -I think?) vs. pre 120Hz DLP technology should translate to the NVIDIA glasses (despite reading the earlier "<120Hz" posts). Aren't shutters just shutters- (0 or 1)?

Would anyone be kind enough to dumb it down for my and the rest of the folks that bought this TV? I just don't have enough practical experience at this point to bet the additional 200 and have not ran across any specific posts related to this model display/tv and the NVIDIA glasses combo.

Presuming I can also find a splitter...

1. Would this create any power related issues with the emitter(s) creating some sort of unintended circuit between the "usb powered dongle?" and the ddd (tv sync port powered dongle) by ultimately "touching" at the splitter?

2. Would I also have the overscan issue on this plasma and the red hues as experienced by DLP users?

3. Would I have to plug in a CRT to trick the install?

(or could I fake the "what do you see" stuff")?

If anyone would be kind enough to assist, I could create a brief guide for all others with the same issue.
Personally I just really need some convincing - either way - from someone who already has a good handle on all this....Unfortunately Iz3d does not support the racing games I want for use with the cool new racing cockpit I built.

Post by **Shaq** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:36 am

Hi all. First time poster and new to the world of 3D gaming. I got my glasses today and dug out my old 85hz crt. The install would not work so I had to guess the right answers on setup and medical test and picked generic crt for the display.

I thought the glasses were broken. I didn't have a 3d page on the drivers. I installed the 181.22 drivers and then got the 3d settings. Luckily I tried a game before I boxed them back up to return them. It works fine in games but still can't do the setup test. No big deal I guess. Funny thing is I thought my crt did 120hz lol. I guess it's been awhile since I've used it. It was one fo the highest priced monitors when I got it ($350 in 2004; 21" philips 201b4). I probably have 20-30 games already that work in 3d. Left 4 Dead sure looks sweet in 3d and medieval 2 total war.

I'm off to play some more.

Post by **The_Doctor** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:03 am

Shaq wrote:Hi all. First time poster and new to the world of 3D gaming. I got my glasses today and dug out my old 85hz crt. The install would not work so I had to guess the right answers on setup and medical test and picked generic crt for the display.

I thought the glasses were broken. I didn't have a 3d page on the drivers. I installed the 181.22 drivers and then got the 3d settings. Luckily I tried a game before I boxed them back up to return them. It works fine in games but still can't do the setup test. No big deal I guess. Funny thing is I thought my crt did 120hz lol. I guess it's been awhile since I've used it. It was one fo the highest priced monitors when I got it ($350 in 2004; 21" philips 201b4). I probably have 20-30 games already that work in 3d. Left 4 Dead sure looks sweet in 3d and medieval 2 total war.

I'm off to play some more.

Yeah, that's what I was saying, if you have something under 100HZ, the setup will be all screwed up so you have to guess, but it does work.

Post by **delyrious** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:06 pm

Thanks for the posts...

If they are not cross compatible then, wouldn't that also mean they will not interfere with each other as the transmitters are sending at different frequencies? Either way- that part should be OK right?.
So I suppose the key question would be...... as the Samsung 50" plasma (pn50a450) is unlike DLPs with regard to refresh rate/Hz, will it even work with the NVIDIA drivers/ glasses & emitter? Unfortunately it is still beyond the scope of my understanding how the difference in Plasma (random refresh up to 100Hz -I think?) vs. pre 120Hz DLP technology should translate to the NVIDIA glasses (despite reading the earlier "<120Hz" posts). Aren't shutters just shutters- (0 or 1)?

Would anyone be kind enough to dumb it down for my and the rest of the folks that bought this TV? I just don't have enough practical experience at this point to bet the additional 200 and have not ran across any specific posts related to this model display/tv and the NVIDIA glasses combo.

Presuming I can also find a splitter...

1. Would this create any power related issues with the emitter(s) creating some sort of unintended circuit between the "usb powered dongle?" and the ddd (tv sync port powered dongle) by ultimately "touching" at the splitter?

2. Would I also have the overscan issue on this plasma and the red hues as experienced by DLP users?

3. Would I have to plug in a CRT to trick the install? (or could I fake the "what do you see" stuff")?

If anyone would be kind enough to assist, I could create a brief guide for all others with the same issue.
Personally I just really need some convincing - either way - from someone who already has a good handle on all this....Unfortunately Iz3d does not support the racing games I want for use with the cool new racing cockpit I built.

Although the ssg1000 emitter doesn't appear to be a high powered emiter...presuming the port is "hot" enough to power a "high power" emitter, it should have enough "juice" for both, I'm guessing, and since the Nvidia already is designed to "touch" the USB I'm also guessing the worst I could do is fry the ddd for which I have a spare. So I contacted Norvac (elec manu) and they have what I need to make my own splitter, but I could really use somebody to weigh in on this before I get started.

Post by **tentaclesex** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:22 pm

artox wrote:Gametrailers review/promotion - for geforce 3d glasses
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/44765.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Everything is explained "for dummies" in the review, which is great, considering that this site is visited by a vast majority of 2d gamers, which don't really knoa anything about the existence of 3d as a possibility.

I like how he mentions that the tech allows you to see games "the way they were meant to be seen."

I'm inches away from picking up one of the bundles, but I'm a little worried about the ghosting. My iZ3D monitor is not in use right now because the ghosting was just too much for me to deal with.

Post by **The_Doctor** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:42 pm

tentaclesex wrote:
artox wrote:Gametrailers review/promotion - for geforce 3d glasses
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/44765.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Everything is explained "for dummies" in the review, which is great, considering that this site is visited by a vast majority of 2d gamers, which don't really knoa anything about the existence of 3d as a possibility.
I like how he mentions that the tech allows you to see games "the way they were meant to be seen."

I'm inches away from picking up one of the bundles, but I'm a little worried about the ghosting. My iZ3D monitor is not in use right now because the ghosting was just too much for me to deal with.

Where are you? Tigerdirect takes the stuff back within 30 days. Mine has gone back, I'll wait for larger monitors.

Post by **tentaclesex** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:48 pm

The_Doctor wrote:
Where are you? Tigerdirect takes the stuff back within 30 days. Mine has gone back, I'll wait for larger monitors.

I'm in the US and that's an excellent point! I might as well give it a go.

I am a little bummed about the small size too, but I think I can cope with it.

Thanks for the suggestion about the 30 day return thing, it hadn't occurred to me at all.

I guess everyone can expect another review soon.

Post by **The_Doctor** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:00 pm

Just don't scratch the stuff and such and expect to pay around $30 for return if you don't keep it, not the $2.99 you pay for shipping to you.

Post by **edgoll** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:20 pm

Hi tentaclesex,

Unless you are extremely sensitive to ghosting I don't know if you will find a better S3d solution for the foreseeable future. I am enjoying the s3d experience again immensely and unless I look for ghosting it is a non issue to me.

As for larger monitors I certainly would have preferred not to have to move down from my 24 inch Dell to a 22 inch Samsung. However the s3d experience so far is worth it to me. Anyway there is hope in the 2nd half of the year apparently for larger 120 hz monitors according to this article http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tentaclesex wrote:

I'm inches away from picking up one of the bundles, but I'm a little worried about the ghosting. My iZ3D monitor is not in use right now because the ghosting was just too much for me to deal with.

Post by **The_Doctor** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:07 pm

Please give as a iz3d vs samsung ghosting report when you get it, I'm sure lots of people want to know.

tentaclesex wrote:
artox wrote:Gametrailers review/promotion - for geforce 3d glasses
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/44765.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Everything is explained "for dummies" in the review, which is great, considering that this site is visited by a vast majority of 2d gamers, which don't really knoa anything about the existence of 3d as a possibility.
I like how he mentions that the tech allows you to see games "the way they were meant to be seen."

I'm inches away from picking up one of the bundles, but I'm a little worried about the ghosting. My iZ3D monitor is not in use right now because the ghosting was just too much for me to deal with.

Post by **tentaclesex** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:01 am

edgoll wrote:Hi tentaclesex,

Unless you are extremely sensitive to ghosting I don't know if you will find a better S3d solution for the foreseeable future. I am enjoying the s3d experience again immensely and unless I look for ghosting it is a non issue to me.

That's good to hear. I'm very excited to try it out.

The_Doctor wrote:Please give as a iz3d vs samsung ghosting report when you get it, I'm sure lots of people want to know.

I will, definitely.

Post by **Damo3000** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:26 am

My glasses should arrive tonight, so I will try with my projector. Something tells me I will have to reverse the pageflipping on the Nvidia glasses, so if anyone knows how to do this, ,maybe you could let me know. Other than that, Ill report back when I test them out

Post by **distantreader** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:53 pm

xposted over nvidia S3D forum:

Prince of Persia 2008 + 3D vision:

This game got stuck at a much slower than 100Hz because of an in game option. My 3D Vision glasses do not work with this game at all even though both left and right images were there albeit at a slow and flickering rate.

I used RivaTuner to set the monitor refresh rate to 120 in Vista and it works for other games, but it doesn't seem to matte for this game, it always goes to a slower freq.

Is there a work around for this?

Post by **delyrious** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:41 pm

Q So I don't mean to be redundant in my question but will the 50" samsung plasma (pn50a450) work with this kit? The whole 120Hz thing doesn't really apply. This TV, like the DLP's, use the checkerboard format and works great with Iz3d and DDD drivers but all the Hz discussion has me nervous. Windows shows resolution options only up to 60Hz settings (9800gtx+ on HDMI). Just waiting to pull the trigger....

A The pn50a450 (720p 50" Samsung 3D ready Plasma) works perfectly with a fullscreen native resolution of 1365 x 768 (= no black boarder and no need to wait for driver fix)..... guess buying a 720p paid off after all. What's more, with use of a miniDIN-3 splitter (I built my own) you can use your ssg1000 Samsung glasses and emitter at the same time with no interference.

I've edited this post to reflect the answer for others that would find this information useful.

Post by **Bo_Fox** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:56 pm

distantreader wrote:xposted over nvidia S3D forum:

Prince of Persia 2008 + 3D vision:

This game got stuck at a much slower than 100Hz because of an in game option. My 3D Vision glasses do not work with this game at all even though both left and right images were there albeit at a slow and flickering rate.

I used RivaTuner to set the monitor refresh rate to 120 in Vista and it works for other games, but it doesn't seem to matte for this game, it always goes to a slower freq.

Is there a work around for this?

Try RefreshLock, a more powerful tool.. it still works in Vista even though it's several years old now. It's a tiny program, only takes like 30KB of memory.

Post by **tentaclesex** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:03 pm

I'll compose more detailed impressions later, but for now I just want to say that the ghosting with the Geforce 3D Vision with the Samsung 120 hz LCD is far more tolerable than with the iZ3D setup. I found it very distracting with the iZ3d, and with this I don't really notice it a lot of the time.

Post by **yuriythebest** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Bo_Fox wrote:
distantreader wrote:xposted over nvidia S3D forum:

Prince of Persia 2008 + 3D vision:

This game got stuck at a much slower than 100Hz because of an in game option. My 3D Vision glasses do not work with this game at all even though both left and right images were there albeit at a slow and flickering rate.

I used RivaTuner to set the monitor refresh rate to 120 in Vista and it works for other games, but it doesn't seem to matte for this game, it always goes to a slower freq.

Is there a work around for this?
Try RefreshLock, a more powerful tool.. it still works in Vista even though it's several years old now. It's a tiny program, only takes like 30KB of memory.

also powerstrip

Post by **The_Doctor** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:52 pm

tentaclesex wrote:I'll compose more detailed impressions later, but for now I just want to say that the ghosting with the Geforce 3D Vision with the Samsung 120 hz LCD is far more tolerable than with the iZ3D setup. I found it very distracting with the iZ3d, and with this I don't really notice it a lot of the time.

Hmmm, interesting.

Post by **Okta** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:38 pm

tentaclesex wrote:I'll compose more detailed impressions later, but for now I just want to say that the ghosting with the Geforce 3D Vision with the Samsung 120 hz LCD is far more tolerable than with the iZ3D setup. I found it very distracting with the iZ3d, and with this I don't really notice it a lot of the time.

So the brand spankin big dollar Nvidia rig ghosts about as much as my crappy old 17 inch crt with $10 xforce glasses. Awesome.

Post by **mikemav** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:14 am

See, it's interesting for me, a newbie to S3D, to hear people saying this may or may not ghost as much as the IZ3D setup. I have a Mitsubishi 60" DLP set and use it mostly for car racing sims. I had tried the Samsung SSG1000 shutter glasses with the DDD (TriDef) software. I also tried IZ3D beta 1.10 drivers. Neither worked for me. I got extreme ghosting or just the convergance/depth never looked right. I don't know if they didn't sync as well (the glasses) or if it was software or a combo of both, but I was not impressed at all. I returned the TriDef kit and got the Nvidia, and once I got it connected and drivers loaded, BAM, it looked perfect. I even am able to take the stock depth setting of 15% and go all the way out to 70% or so when driving in rFactor- really immersive, and ZERO ghosting, double images, etc... At least for me. YMMV.

Now I need to play with the convergence to see if I can get more pop-out. The out of screen effects of the Nvidia test app are amazing when depth is set higher than stock, so I know it's capable, but most software isn't as 3D specific as this test, so a little convergence tweaking might improve it further for rFactor. Now I just need to work on frame rates. When I first played I was getting 40-60 in 3D but I've seen it drop into the 30's and have a little stuttering, though that could be my flaky rFactor bloated install and not the 3D. I run a 9800GTX+ and if all is running well get 100+ FPS without S3D active. I actually force Vsync since I get a really smooth 60FPS vsync this way, but I have to tweak this for S3D. Anyone know if Vsync is or isn't a good idea here? If I'm running under 60FPS in S3D does it even matter if Vsync is ticked?

Also, I was a bad boy and bought a GTX260 I have here for testing, but will prob return. I had tried it before rebuilt the machine last weekend and it didn't seem to make much of a difference in frame rates. Now that I've got the Nvidia 3D kit and the new drivers working well I'm hesitant to try out the other card and rip the machine apart again if it won't make much of a diff (and it's $100 more costly than the still retunable 9800GTX+) Wonder if I'm processor limited with my Core2Duo E4300 1.8GHz ("Allendale") that's a few years old? I know I can overclock the processor and be stable from 1.8 up to 2.7 GHz (at least it worked well before), and the 9800GTX+ is supposed to also overclock almost to GTX260 levels, but that also sounds like it might be painful. Any tips?

Post by **Neil** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:51 am

It's good to hear you are having a positive experience, and it's equally important to understand why you are having a good experience.

First, when people are talking about the iZ3D setup, they are talking about their brand of 3D monitor. iZ3D is going through a public beta to improve image quality, and so far the results have been very positive:

http://mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for things not looking right, you need to be more specific. Was it a matter of ghosting? Were you not able to achieve a good mix of separation and convergence? Which games? If you are unfamiliar, here is a special guide on how to set this up. This applies to NVIDIA as well:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/newslette ... ews_id=44/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The difference in glasses and ghosting is a different thing altogether. I will have to double check with my sources, but I understand that NVIDIA adds an extra dark phase in their synchronization to cut down on ghosting. The loss of light is 60% or more, so there is a definite trade-off in image quality.

Also, while I can't name who yet, you are going to start seeing premium shutter glasses options on the market that are targeted more to the premium gamer. Will they work with the NVIDIA solution? We will have to wait and see.

Regards,
Neil

Post by **The_Doctor** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:28 am

Get the fastest single card you can get your hands on, that would be the gtx285. Yes, it makes a huge differece. The cpu should be ok if you overclock everything you can out of it, but for racing games it will always be at the limit since it needs to calculate a lot of stuff for each car. So the more cars you have the less fps you will get. rfactor unfortunately only runs on a single core. With max cars and details at 1680*1050 i was usually around 60fps (max on the samsung 120lcd in stereo) and drops to under 30 at starts or when lots of cars and buildings on the screen at once. The cpu was t 100% 90% of the time, so the faster the better. Yes, the video card is expensive, but you will keep it for a long time. I would stay away from sli as it doesn't seem to work.

mikemav wrote:See, it's interesting for me, a newbie to S3D, to hear people saying this may or may not ghost as much as the IZ3D setup. I have a Mitsubishi 60" DLP set and use it mostly for car racing sims. I had tried the Samsung SSG1000 shutter glasses with the DDD (TriDef) software. I also tried IZ3D beta 1.10 drivers. Neither worked for me. I got extreme ghosting or just the convergance/depth never looked right. I don't know if they didn't sync as well (the glasses) or if it was software or a combo of both, but I was not impressed at all. I returned the TriDef kit and got the Nvidia, and once I got it connected and drivers loaded, BAM, it looked perfect. I even am able to take the stock depth setting of 15% and go all the way out to 70% or so when driving in rFactor- really immersive, and ZERO ghosting, double images, etc... At least for me. YMMV.

Now I need to play with the convergence to see if I can get more pop-out. The out of screen effects of the Nvidia test app are amazing when depth is set higher than stock, so I know it's capable, but most software isn't as 3D specific as this test, so a little convergence tweaking might improve it further for rFactor. Now I just need to work on frame rates. When I first played I was getting 40-60 in 3D but I've seen it drop into the 30's and have a little stuttering, though that could be my flaky rFactor bloated install and not the 3D. I run a 9800GTX+ and if all is running well get 100+ FPS without S3D active. I actually force Vsync since I get a really smooth 60FPS vsync this way, but I have to tweak this for S3D. Anyone know if Vsync is or isn't a good idea here? If I'm running under 60FPS in S3D does it even matter if Vsync is ticked?

Also, I was a bad boy and bought a GTX260 I have here for testing, but will prob return. I had tried it before rebuilt the machine last weekend and it didn't seem to make much of a difference in frame rates. Now that I've got the Nvidia 3D kit and the new drivers working well I'm hesitant to try out the other card and rip the machine apart again if it won't make much of a diff (and it's $100 more costly than the still retunable 9800GTX+) Wonder if I'm processor limited with my Core2Duo E4300 1.8GHz ("Allendale") that's a few years old? I know I can overclock the processor and be stable from 1.8 up to 2.7 GHz (at least it worked well before), and the 9800GTX+ is supposed to also overclock almost to GTX260 levels, but that also sounds like it might be painful. Any tips?

Post by **distantreader** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:48 pm

@Yuri and Bofox:
-Refreshlock doesn't work for me with Vista, it used to work for me very reliably when I still had XP. Even PoP worked with refreshlock + XP.
-I downloaded an old version of powerstrip (v.2.7) but it still didn't lock the refresh rate in this PoP. Desktop was fine at 120Hz but going into the game it flickered, likely 60Hz because it hurted my eyes immediately. 3D Vision glasses didn't sync but my old I-Art Eye3D synced fine (with its own emitter/dongle), at least it let me know the S3D is OK, just the CRT refresh rate was not being locked at 120Hz as set in desktop.
-Forceware 181.20 has this "create custom resolution/refresh rate" that allows high refresh rate for CRTs but still nothing sticks within PoP.

Post by **mikemav** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:02 pm

The_Doctor wrote:Get the fastest single card you can get your hands on, that would be the gtx285. Yes, it makes a huge differece. The cpu should be ok if you overclock everything you can out of it, but for racing games it will always be at the limit since it needs to calculate a lot of stuff for each car. So the more cars you have the less fps you will get. rfactor unfortunately only runs on a single core. With max cars and details at 1680*1050 i was usually around 60fps (max on the samsung 120lcd in stereo) and drops to under 30 at starts or when lots of cars and buildings on the screen at once. The cpu was t 100% 90% of the time, so the faster the better. Yes, the video card is expensive, but you will keep it for a long time. I would stay away from sli as it doesn't seem to work.

Have you seen the -fullproc trick for running dual-core in rFactor? Edit properties of your shortcut to rfactor.exe. Edit so that at the end of path: ".......rFactor.exe" -fullproc

I overclocked my E4300 today from 1.8 to 2.7 GHz stable. I didn't mess with OC'ing the 9800GTX+ yet. I ran CPU-Z to confirm 2700MHz. I then rebooted and ran rFactor. First my "bloated" rFactor main install. Loaded rfTrainer at Eastern Creek Laser or Fuji, enabled 3D in the Nvidia, KEPT my force vsync setting in the Nvidia rFactor settings*. So I figured with S3D enabled, I'd get the 30-40 I was gettng befoe maybe plus a few. Well, I'm elated to report, I got steady 60-61, as you'd expect from force Vsync on, even with the S3D enabled. Full on 73% depth Nvidia shutter S3D in rFactor at 60 FPS locked with vsync. On a $200 GPU. I think the OC to 2.7 really woke this machine up. Believe it or not I also went from 4GB RAM (swap mode on in BIOS, 32 bit Vista), down to 2GB for this overclock. I was having some issues and thought the original 2GB I had in there stable for so long would be better to baseline with, and see no reason to change now that I'm getting this performance.

I wonder why the difference. Could -fullproc make such a diff? Or maybe the Mitsubishi DLP S3D driver is easier to push than the 22" desktop monitor LCD driver? Hrm, that's an interesting side question- does the 3D Vision FPS hit impact rigs differenty depending on which S3D type of monitor is used? Is LCD or DepthQ harder/easier to driver than DLP? Just wondering.

I also tired a cleaner separate install I have of rFactor Historix and it also ran at 60-61 in 3D with vsync forced on in the GPU settings, triple buffer on, 0 pre-rendered frames, etc...* Running a 70's Porsche 911 with the dirty windshield having grime "floating" out in front where a windshield would be, and seeing depth into the corners, I think I'm hooked. Not sure I can go back to (the otherwise excellent) Gran Turismo 5 Prologue on the PS3, now that I've seen TrackIR and Nvidia 3D Vision. When you look around the 3D cockpit with 6 degrees of freedom on the TrackIR, and can see the racing style toggle dash switches floating out of the dashboard so much you feel you could grab them- wow. I'm hooked!

If running it this way becomes problematic and I need to get a GTX295 to keep up, so be it! But I'll kleep my fingers crossed this way will work. I still also have my old 8600GT I might install in the 4X PCIe secondary slot to be a Physix processor. The new Nvidia 18x drivers enable using an older second mismatched GPU to offload the PhysiX processing from the main GPU so it can only render the graphics. Of course only some games are PhysiX enabled and it's value is debatable (and will cost more in power consumption to run a second card.)

I'm going to install Grid next to see how it does with Nvidia 3D Vision. I'll try to report back on that tomorrow.

*per the setup described on RaceSimCentral in the ZooMin_MIr 's Nvidia Graphix Setting Guide.)

Post by **distantreader** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:51 pm

OK, after getting Windows 7 going with 3D Vision operational, I used refreshlock on W7 partition and it worked so I went back to Vista and reran refreshlock, this time around it also worked. It's just so weird, had to run those utilitis ie RivaTuner, Powerstrip, and Refreshlock multiple times until Windows gave up and let one of them override. PoP 08 looks beautiful with adequate brightness and full color palette (as opposed to interlaced and anaglyphic) from 3D Vision glasses.

Bottome line, all three games I am playing The Witcher, Tomb Raider: Underworld and Prince of Persia 2008 work beautifully with Vista 32 + NVidia 3D Vision + 8800GTS 640MB + 181.20 Forceware/S3D driver pair. For me, this is the best S3D game experience todate. Forgot to mention too, come with 3D Vision is the Stereoscopic Player for S3D video free of charge albeit less features (than the one that I purchased for 60USD), figure that bonus into the price and I feel it's a very nice package for those who don't have the S3D video player yet.

Post by **shonofear** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:36 pm

Hey distantreader,
so are you just using a standard CRT setup? if so at what refresh rate?
And do many games work on the new Windows 7 and with good 3d Stereo compatibility ???

So correct me if i am wrong, but will the new Nvidia Stereo drivers work with cheaper wired glasses and dongle (like the X3D ones) ?
Out of work so cant buy the New Nvidia glasses kit...

yet
Cheers fellas