What i think about Nvidia 3D Vision

[flexy]

$199 ?

It's all about the fricking MARKETING, and i can tell you why:

If i look at my edimensional LCD shutter glasses or even the classic ELSA erazor glasses, i can tell you that those glasses do NOT cost more than $2 to manufacture - especially the ED glasses look so cheap like they came out of a bubble-gum vendor machine.

A typical "consumer level" set of 3d LCD glasses is not high-tech but MOST simple.

The IR emitter (the VESA cable w/ the 3pin DIN plug and a simple IR part)...you can actually buy the parts and make one yourself for (i am guessing) $3 MAX at your local radioshack. (DIN plug, wire, IR emitter)

Value of the HARDWARE $5-$8 MAX

So...now NV is charging $199, in addition VERY LIKELY locking the drivers to THEIR glasses and system.
I also guess the USB part of the drivers is more likely rather a dongle (copy protection) since its not essential for this to work, really.

[yuriythebest]

exactly.

[mkultra333]

I understand 2008 was a bit rough for nvidia. Hardware scandals and stuff, leaky caps, trouble with their laptop customers. And being beaten by ATI in the speedy GPU market. So I wonder if their sudden push into S3D is designed to distract from all that, and also give them a potential edge over ATI.

If so, it'll work on me if:
a) They make it work with 85hz CRT monitors.
b) They make it work with OpenGL.
c) They make it work with XP.

[pixel67]

Sounds like you have a potential business on your hands, flexy! Now all you need to do is go hire the staff necessary to mass produce the hardware, put together a software development team that can invent and test your drivers (or OEM from someone) and ensure the system complies with all necessary certifications, assemble a marketing team that can develop a marketing and delivery strategy, and hire a support staff to take the calls and categorize bug fixes. You will also need a sales rep or two to work directly with the public. We could use the jobs in this economy. Oh, and make sure the market is big enough to support all operating systems back to Windows 2000 so we don't have to worry about keeping our computers up to date anymore...

The costs in most businesses are in the people you hire and not in the parts used to make the product. Need an employee? I may need a job before too long...

8)

[VOXEL]

If so, it'll work on me if:
a) They make it work with 85hz CRT monitors.
b) They make it work with OpenGL.
c) They make it work with XP.

According to information from the site nvidia.custhelp.com, as set out above will most likely not realized.

Question:
When I try run the NVIDIA stereoscopic 3D test application or a game my CRT monitor goes blank and I get the message "out of range." How do I fix this?
Answer:
NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision requires a minimum 100Hz refresh rate and will work with analog CRT's. Please try testing a lower resolution mode that your analog CRT monitor can support at 100Hz to 120Hz.

Question:
Will the GeForce 3D Vision kit support Windows XP in the future?
Answer:
At this time, the 3D Vision system is supported under Windows Vista only. Support for other OS's may be possible in the future based on demand.

[Okta]

Question:
When I try run the NVIDIA stereoscopic 3D test application or a game my CRT monitor goes blank and I get the message "out of range." How do I fix this?
Answer:
NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision requires a minimum 100Hz refresh rate and will work with analog CRT's. Please try testing a lower resolution mode that your analog CRT monitor can support at 100Hz to 120Hz.

OUCH!! Thats real bad news for old dlp projectors. Maybe the older models supporting 100hz will work?

[Xerion]

This is rather odd, the documentation shows a screenshot where a lower than 100Hz refreshrate (ie 75Hz) can be set for stereoscopy. Besides it's only trivial to make it work. If they don't make it work it's just evilness on their side.

EDIT: I have send them a question about this, as well as a story about how I will only consider getting these glasses and a new nvidia card when they will work with my projector Also I asked about availability in Europe.

[Okta]

Question:
Will the GeForce 3D Vision kit support Windows XP in the future?
Answer:
At this time, the 3D Vision system is supported under Windows Vista only. Support for other OS's may be possible in the future based on demand.

BUSTED! http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vista has a tiny market share so demand is not the issue since xp demand is way higher. MS Nvidia collusion right there.

[mkultra333]

Vista has a tiny market share so demand is not the issue since xp demand is way higher. MS Nvidia collusion right there.

That explains the lack of OpenGL support too, since OpenGL competes with DirectX. I think this has been going on since that Crysis scandal, where they built perfectly good DX9 shaders and then removed them at the last moment and claimed you needed DX10-Vista for the best graphics settings.

[flexy]

What you mean with "tiny marketshare"?

Please look at DELL/TOSHIBA or go to your local BB or WHATEVER PC store worldwide - and check what OS is coming installed on ANY computer right now?

This being said..i am running Windows 7 right now.

[chrisjarram]

I for one don't see why everyone is so quick to bang on about the $199 RRP until they have actually tested the glasses. To me, they look superior in quality to the eDimensionals (a lot more sturdy with much bigger LCS's) - and compared to the $700 cost of a set of CE3's (EXCLUDING emitter) for example, this is an absolute bargain. No-one has yet questioned the manufacturing cost (in respect not only of the units, but the design / development cost and initial anticipated sales numbers in order for nVidia to see a return), but I'm guessing this does factor in somewhat. If they sell well, the price will fall significantly. The bottom line is, stereo 3d is amazing - and if these glasses combined with nVidias new driver do what they say on the tin I'd be delighted with that price.

Edit: That was before I read the comments about the refresh rate above - if these don't work with 85hz DLP's nvidia can frankly stick them right up their arse

[Okta]

Edit: That was before I read the comments about the refresh rate above - if these don't work with 85hz DLP's nvidia can frankly stick them right up their arse.

That was a quick backflip when you discover it doesnt suit YOUR intended purpose, regardless of how high quality the glasses or driver are.

[chrisjarram]

Edit: That was before I read the comments about the refresh rate above - if these don't work with 85hz DLP's nvidia can frankly stick them right up their arse.

That was a quick backflip when you discover it doesnt suit YOUR intended purpose, regardless of how high quality the glasses or driver are.

Jesus - some people have no sense of humour!!

The even bigger irony being your post above - 'OUCH!! Thats real bad news for old dlp projectors. Maybe the older models supporting 100hz will work?'. lol.

At _NO_ point did I say they werent worth the money did I... No, you just jumped right in and tried to start an argument, what is the point? They are not good enough for my intended purpose, no, and unless they can be made to work in that way I personally won't be buying them (as I have an existing solution that works already). However, they ARE worth $199 and ARE good quality units. Read, and think, before you type next time

[Okta]

No quarrel intended and I indeed found your edit commical as an example of the feelings of some experienced users when presented with the implications of this latest token of affection bestowed upon us by the all mercifull Nvidia.

[chrisdfw]

Let's see...lack of XP support, lack of <100hz support, lack of openGL...yep...its another case of the manufacturer trying to dictate what we want instead of providing what we want...

Nvidia has been on my "horrible company list" ever since they stopped supporting stereo driver updates for XP that worked on all 3d hardware.

[chrisjarram]

For a number of reasons, although I maintain the hardware appears to be of very good quality it certainly is starting to look like 'close but no cigar'. What a shame for what could otherwise have been a good product which could compete with the iz3d solution. One thing I would say is the 100hz refresh is almost certainly a limitation of the glasses shutter hardware (e.g. similarly CrystalEyes do not operate below 80hz purely due to the switching electronics). If the IR emitter can still put out a signal at 85hz, it would be an absolute doddle to tap into the IR control circuitry and convert that to a 5v square wave for 3-pin Vesa glasses like eDims and CrystalEyes, to then use with 85hz projectors. Similarly, it is dead simple to add some variable capacitance to offset this square wave in order to ensure perfect sync with the projector.

So, if someone can at least find out if the IR emitter can operate at 85hz, please post this here as that would be a good start to hacking a fix.

[flexy]

Let's see...lack of XP support, lack of <100hz support, lack of openGL...yep...its another case of the manufacturer trying to dictate what we want instead of providing what we want...

Nvidia has been on my "horrible company list" ever since they stopped supporting stereo driver updates for XP that worked on all 3d hardware.

i am not sure about "lack of <100 hz support"...it would NOT make any sense to me, rather that <100 would give a lot of flicker and headaches...but there is NO reason why it should NOT work <100 hz.

[chrisjarram]

Let's see...lack of XP support, lack of <100hz support, lack of openGL...yep...its another case of the manufacturer trying to dictate what we want instead of providing what we want...

Nvidia has been on my "horrible company list" ever since they stopped supporting stereo driver updates for XP that worked on all 3d hardware.

i am not sure about "lack of <100 hz support"...it would NOT make any sense to me, rather that <100 would give a lot of flicker and headaches...but there is NO reason why it should NOT work <100 hz.

Other than the reasons I gave above

[Damo3000]

Here's what I think so far. Been reading a lot of posts, and it reminded me of how long a lot of us have been waiting for these to be released. I think its all around good, good for the spread of 3D, and its just the beginning of 3D becoming more mainstream.

I personally will be buying these glasses. I already have 4 pairs of Edims, and the high output IR emitter (700$ total!!!) so these glasses are a fairly decent price I think (rechargeable adds some value - bigger lenses - hopefully they go really dark too). I hope they will offer pairs on their own, I guess they might eventually.

I suppose my Edims wont work with the Nvidia Emitter, but you never know. Im waiting to hear from someone if this is the case. Would be nice. Also would be nice if the Nvid specs will work with my 85hz DLP projector (85hz is fine for me, but 120hz would be nice!). But im not too hopeful. Looks like Ill be adding a projector to the wish list. (So thats a new videocard, new Projector, new Glasses - my wife will not be happy)

So its still a waiting game for me, see what happens over the next little while. Hopefully some hacking will open up more options with these glasses/drivers. I know there is a lot of really smart tech people on these forums.

I wonder if the "120hz" TVs that have been on sale will work - I think a lot of people will be pissed off if they bought one.

Im looking forward to hearing a review on these from one of you guys who know where Im coming from.

[budda]

Hi,

There may be two areas where Nvidia may need to provide S3D support for Windows XP.


Firstly, the emerging netbook market is seeing small powerful machines with the potential to power external displays, or possibly to be equipped with small and newer compatible LCD/OLED screens.

This market is definitely powered by Windows XP for the foreseeable future.


Secondly, there is the workstation market.

The workstation market is traditionally Windows XP, Quadro graphics cards, Stereovision connectivity, and OpenGL (with greatly increased emphasis on DirectX performance in applications).

Nvidia have implied they will soon bring out drivers that offer 3D Vision shutterglasses connectivity to its workstation cards. http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_ste ... ology.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


How do I enable Quadro Quad Buffered Professional Stereo?
Quad buffered stereo is enabled with any quad buffered stereo application, 3D stereoscopic glasses and NVIDIA® Quadro® FX high-end and ultra-high end solutions. Quad Buffered Stereo will be supported with the NVIDIA GeForce 3D vision glasses in upcoming driver release by spring 2009.


Now, if Windows XP and 3D Vision quad buffered stereo is indeed supported on Quadro workstation cards, here is the irony. The Quadro workstation cards are basically the same as the Geforce cards.

So .... why is nvidia apparently still going to shaft Windows XP users with its Geforce cards then.


Watch this space.


EDIT 4 Feb 2009

Nvidia showcases its ION platform - an Intel Atom based computer with Nvidia GPU and Vista. This has the PCWorld reviewer asking 'why not XP'. "Because we think people deserve a better experience," quipped one nVidia spokesperson. Yeah, right...

Review here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/158764/h ... tform.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[anotherFrench]

ok, here is what I think about nvidia 3d vision...
I didn't try them, don't know much about them so all I know is based on what I found on google.
they promised a real revolution in the 3D entertainment that would be the ultimate 3d experience thanks to those glasses but seriously, what do they have that older shutters don't have?
drivers maybe? of course ! nvidia was the only one to provide them till they stop suddenly to "promote" their own products but isn't IZ3D coming with new drivers for shutters?
I can find many tests, reviews and articles on the net describing thoses glasses as being the next level in 3D, the Walhalla of 3D, (one even wrote that those glasses are full HD LOL ) but what do they say in those tests?
first of all, too bad mtbs don't make reviews about 3D gizmos because most tests I read on the net are made by peoples who never tryed anything in 3D before (or maybe some glasses on some 14" crt screens at 30hz decades ago or even anaglyph)
I wasn't able to find a single test comparing those glasses with other still decent solutions like the ed glasses.
of course if someone test the nvidia's on a 120hz screen and the edim on a 60hz screen they will tell you that nvidia is much better and that they are the first and only who work so nicelly but what if they did try the edim on the same screen?
maybe the glasses are working just the same and it's the screen and only the screen who makes a difference.
so tell me, when are we going to see some real tests and reviews for those glasses ?
are they really a great buy compared to those x-force 3D glasses sold at 10$?
would they work better on the same screen?

[sharky]

hi!

acqually mtbs would do the testing youre asking for, IF nvidia would send us a sample.

we didnt get one. as soon as nvidia wakes up the review will be on the forums.

i wonder what nvidia is waiting for to join iz3d and tdv, since they should be on the boat from a long time.

go trough this topic: http://mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

have fun

Igor

[anotherFrench]

indeed I did read that topic recently, could it be that nvidia are afraid to have those glasses tested by pro's?

[Neil]

We aren't so much interested in reviewing their glasses as we are in testing games, setting expectations, and building leverage to get game developers to release titles that work even better than they do now. When I say work better, I mean work better with NVIDIA's solution as well as additional players in the market.

It doesn't serve anyone's purpose to make a product look bad on MTBS. Reading through all our articles and reviews, it should be clear that we have been careful to not do that. Sample or no sample, we look forward to seeing them at San Jose.

I will add though that if they are concerned about the quality of their drivers compared to their competitors, that could cause a brief problem for MTBS Certification. We may have to come up with creative ways to set up different categories and game reviews that don't pit the solutions against each other directly, but still conveys the right information. We will research this carefully, and we have some exciting plans and ideas for 2009.

Regards,
Neil

[anotherFrench]

I understand very wel what you are saying and it's a good policy from mtbs but hey, what nvidia did to customers by not providing the 3D drivers in order to sale their own product wasn't a nice thing to do, because of that many people don't want to hear about 3D anymore and you must admit that from what we can read on the web those glasses don't bring anything new exept an high cost and low compability.
all their publicity is built arround 120hz screens wich seems to be great indeed but have nothing to do with the glasse's specifications itself
if at least they would provide you (or any 3d experimented tester) those glasses to test they could proove I'm wrong but till then sorry, what I say may sound bad or hard or whatever but I won't advise anyone to buy that product at such a prize

[yuriythebest]

hmm I don't quite agree that the new nvidia drivers are bad per say. From the list of drivers that include iz3d, DDD, edimensional, old nvidia drivers, new nvidia drivers they are not the "worst" at all. I'd pick them over DDD any time. Even when it comes to iz3d- even though iz3d has more features and better support, nvidia's ability to access the video card more deeply gives them the advantage when it comes to performance.

[anotherFrench]

I didn't mean to say they are bad, just that they have very limited compatibility...they won't support xp, they'll work only on nvidia gpu's (not even all of them) and the glasses work only on 120hz lcd's or 100+hz crt... that's what I call low compatibility

[snaileri]

I'd just like to know will Nvidia ever release the glasses in europe.

[koshien]

I'd just like to know will Nvidia ever release the glasses in europe.

I read on an Italian pc-related website Nvidia 3D solution will be released in February. I hope that's true.

[snaileri]

I found the website you were talking about:
http://translate.google.com/translate?p ... auto&tl=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great news

[koshien]

I found the website you were talking about:
http://translate.google.com/translate?p ... auto&tl=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great news

Nice find
Yes, it's that one

[flexy]

why shouldnt they release in EU?

Besides, theres always ways to order online from the states, ebay etc.

[anotherFrench]

oh but they will, they just release procucts here little later and more expenssive
they did anounce the release of the nvidia here in france for feb too, I read that somewhere but I don't remember the precise day, must be the same as italie I guess.
buying in the us sounds very attractive but it's a bit complicated, I don't know if it's the same for all europe but to buy from france you have to:
find a saler you trust well, who accept your credit card (they often don't like french "carte bleue"),
pay more delivery cost and time,
pay extra taxes at the french border,
you can have dificulties to return a defect/inapropriate product
etc etc
so sometime it can be a good solution or even the only solution to get a product but sometime it can turn to be very expensive and complicated