3D Vision Patent

[UnityBeing]

Hiya everyone,

So I was thinking we only have about 2 years of 3D vision survivability.. according to helifax and other helixmod people I've chatted with. It's sensible to believe that is the estimated time of the lifecycle.

I was hoping helixmod high ranking officers would do a 2 year and beyond plan to see what will happen to us all in helixmod community - I love 3D vision and don't like VR because of data mining and machine learning i.e. facebook etc

I propose something and I hope you ya'll can bump this topic or comment at least, we need to move and do something about helixmod's future and I as a long time donator and supporter want something planned for the sake of our gaming entertainment.

My proposal is this:

1. A high ranking helixmod officer with backing of helixmod community starts a fundraiser to buy 3D vision patent tech from Nvidia at a aimed cost of 3.5 million Euros.

2. If/when patent is successfully acquired through fundraising with a solid plan of opensourcing it - and making it still profitable enough for the helixmod high ranking officers, R&D lab and lifespan of 3D vision tech by allying with AMD if possible and other corps.

3. End result is to opensource it and deliver to the helixmod community and newcomers as an alternative to VR bulky data mining and machine learning tech.

I hope this all made sense, please comment, lets try to survive as a helixmod community. My interest is for an alternative to VR and I have no plan to be part of this fundraiser, I can do free marketing/publicity contributions as a soon to be retired person.

Thanks.

[Guig2000]

Hello,

1°) 3Dvision, even if it was becoming opensource, would still be a dead end because nobody knows how to interface it with modern GPU drivers, or you will be limited to half resolution stereoscopy (side by side, alternating lines etc) or to the hacked nvidia 452.06 driver.
2°) If I had millions I'd prefer to spend then on full time devs' salary, not to acquire an old nvidia patent.
3°) stereo is abandoned by mainstream companies, so the only way is DIY, but not just for technical stuff, but for an entire structure (I don't know, a company or a society) that would pay full time devs or fund projects.



So I think the fist step is not 3D vision, the GPU driver directly by adding on it a stereoscopic block: minimally a quad buffer or more, which can support multiple kind of displays. Indeed without it, it will not be possible to output a HDMI/Display Port frame packed 3D signal and may not be or it may be very difficult for a frame sequential 3D signal.
This 3D video signal is essential if you want to have 3D without resolution loss on the 3D displays people still use.
Even if what you say was feasible, it still would require to hack nowadays GPU drivers in order make the old 3D vision to communicate with it.

Nvidia does not provide any documentation on their graphics card in order to help independent devs to build good nvidia third party drivers. Despite that, such drivers exists, but of course, they come way after any new nvidia GPU comes into the market and are limited and quite buggy.


So what can we do?
knowing that:
+AMD and intel provide required docs and open source drivers (well, AMD more than intel).
+iZ3D driver, source code have been opened and is available.
+MESA "The Mesa 3D Graphics Library" provide a large scope open sourced graphics driver for various operating systems (including windows, but with Linux being his core usage) https://docs.mesa3d.org/systems.html.

We need devs to join mesa (or to make a fork) in order to add/evolve stereoscopic capabilities on GPU drivers, mainly AMD and intel products.

Two ways may be available:
+only adding quad buffer on this GPU drivers, with a various type of display support, and then, using some of iZ3D code, building a separated universal stereoscopic driver that will communicate with the GPU driver using the quad buffer.
+building a complete stereo solution into the GPU driver (the same way 3D vision was doing), but the work will have to be redone for each GPU brand.


As a result, as long as nvidia does not provide any help for open-source drivers, at the end, nvidia GPU should be abandoned by stereoscopers.
Other consequences may be that linux may become a the stereoscopic gaming platform (it is not still well known but linux is a good gaming platform nowadays including for windows games, only AAA MMO that uses IA anti-chaet methods have issues), or that MESA drivers to be much more popular in windows (but honestly, as few people use them in windows, bugs may be the rule).


I think everyting I just wrote technically is very feasible.
The very big issue is to organize, found stable revenues in order to pay devs or projects. What about joining stereocopic clubs and convincing them? Commercial projects will probably be required.

[UnityBeing]

Greetings Guig,

Thank you very much for replying to my post with sensibility and solutions.

I'm not technically adept to understand quad buffer or stereoscopic block but however Helifax was able to reverse engineer vulkan API and created Vulkan 3D wrapper/driver that allows any nvidia card and drivers to work with it. I believe that when NVidia completely removes 3D vision files from their drivers then 3D vision and Helifax's Vulkan 3D will stop functioning?

Indeed it seems that the current situation is that when Nvidia truly removes 3D vision files from their drivers 3D vision will be stuck with old drivers.

I was thinking that if we made a purchase of 3D vision patent tech Nvidia would also agree to revert their deletion of 3D vision in their drivers in order for 3D vision Patent purchase to be viable in the market - however I see your points in the limitations helixmod would encounter. I also feel that Nvidia would rather vault 3D vision and perhaps in the near future venture to VR and squash any remaining 3D vision remnants in the market.

So as to your solutions it sounds viable that Helixmod should partner with AMD and Intel for a market gap of those that don't do well with motion sickness, data mining and machine learning in the VR tech. Perhaps an alternative to 3D vision but with same principles would supersede VR if done well and if opensource.

I'd consider perhaps getting MS involved for a microsoft store app that would allow 3D stereoscopic gaming that is opensource but locked to M$ store but not in it's ecosystem of games. However if M$ rejects helixmod then a Linux, AMD, Intel and Epic Games OS made for gaming with the primary focus on 3D stereoscopic gaming would be more successful.

If we go the route of Linux then there could be a Linux OS that does all the work of stereoscopic block when the Nvidia, Intel and AMD cards are processing the games via that ecosystem. Epic Games would come into play for a library of games that are geared and funded for 3D Stereo. How Feasible is this? It all depends in the technological stand point of what opensource intel's in the progression of the OS and the hardware adoption.

I know deep down inside that AMD is all for opensource and is very much open minded for new ventures that contribute to their market share of anything gaming as long as there is a market for such ventures.

A fundraiser isn't impossible these days as many are looking for alternatives in OS and VR.

Please let me know what you think with your rich knowledge?

Best Regards,

UB

Hello,

1°) 3Dvision, even if it was becoming opensource, would still be a dead end because nobody knows how to interface it with modern GPU drivers, or you will be limited to half resolution stereoscopy (side by side, alternating lines etc) or to the hacked nvidia 452.06 driver.
2°) If I had millions I'd prefer to spend then on full time devs' salary, not to acquire an old nvidia patent.
3°) stereo is abandoned by mainstream companies, so the only way is DIY, but not just for technical stuff, but for an entire structure (I don't know, a company or a society) that would pay full time devs or fund projects.



So I think the fist step is not 3D vision, the GPU driver directly by adding on it a stereoscopic block: minimally a quad buffer or more, which can support multiple kind of displays. Indeed without it, it will not be possible to output a HDMI/Display Port frame packed 3D signal and may not be or it may be very difficult for a frame sequential 3D signal.
This 3D video signal is essential if you want to have 3D without resolution loss on the 3D displays people still use.
Even if what you say was feasible, it still would require to hack nowadays GPU drivers in order make the old 3D vision to communicate with it.

Nvidia does not provide any documentation on their graphics card in order to help independent devs to build good nvidia third party drivers. Despite that, such drivers exists, but of course, they come way after any new nvidia GPU comes into the market and are limited and quite buggy.


So what can we do?
knowing that:
+AMD and intel provide required docs and open source drivers (well, AMD more than intel).
+iZ3D driver, source code have been opened and is available.
+MESA "The Mesa 3D Graphics Library" provide a large scope open sourced graphics driver for various operating systems (including windows, but with Linux being his core usage) https://docs.mesa3d.org/systems.html.

We need devs to join mesa (or to make a fork) in order to add/evolve stereoscopic capabilities on GPU drivers, mainly AMD and intel products.

Two ways may be available:
+only adding quad buffer on this GPU drivers, with a various type of display support, and then, using some of iZ3D code, building a separated universal stereoscopic driver that will communicate with the GPU driver using the quad buffer.
+building a complete stereo solution into the GPU driver (the same way 3D vision was doing), but the work will have to be redone for each GPU brand.


As a result, as long as nvidia does not provide any help for open-source drivers, at the end, nvidia GPU should be abandoned by stereoscopers.
Other consequences may be that linux may become a the stereoscopic gaming platform (it is not still well known but linux is a good gaming platform nowadays including for windows games, only AAA MMO that uses IA anti-chaet methods have issues), or that MESA drivers to be much more popular in windows (but honestly, as few people use them in windows, bugs may be the rule).


I think everyting I just wrote technically is very feasible.
The very big issue is to organize, found stable revenues in order to pay devs or projects. What about joining stereocopic clubs and convincing them? Commercial projects will probably be required.

[Guig2000]

I don't have so much deep knowledge, I have a bit and try to understand more and to help.

I think the main issue we're facing is that the stereoscopy failed as mainstream products.

All TV companies stopped 3D TVs because nobody was taking care of the 3D capabilities of the products they bought, very few, was buying 3D glasses.
After iZ3D and tridef has gone to bankruptcy, 3D vision was not appearing to nvidia to be a GPU selling argument anymore and saved some of their bucks by stopping the product.

So globally it does not make enough money for all this companies. They just don't care anymore about 3D.

That why I think, we need a project that is as much as possible independent from any of this big companies.

That's why I wrote as much about open source and linux in my previous post.


That last part of a stereoscopic ecosystem still alive is some few software, DLP videoprojectors and HMD.
Occulus stopped the rift. Apparently HMD will continue as products, but what if they don't and what if DLP projectors also stop to have a stereoscopic support?

[UnityBeing]

I don't have so much deep knowledge, I have a bit and try to understand more and to help.

I think the main issue we're facing is that the stereoscopy failed as mainstream products.

All TV companies stopped 3D TVs because nobody was taking care of the 3D capabilities of the products they bought, very few, was buying 3D glasses.
After iZ3D and tridef has gone to bankruptcy, 3D vision was not appearing to nvidia to be a GPU selling argument anymore and saved some of their bucks by stopping the product.

So globally it does not make enough money for all this companies. They just don't care anymore about 3D.

That why I think, we need a project that is as much as possible independent from any of this big companies.

That's why I wrote as much about open source and linux in my previous post.


That last part of a stereoscopic ecosystem still alive is some few software, DLP videoprojectors and HMD.
Occulus stopped the rift. Apparently HMD will continue as products, but what if they don't and what if DLP projectors also stop to have a stereoscopic support?

Greetings great contributor Mr Guig. I hope you still alive and well.

Sorry for my very late reply. A lot has happened since our last brain storm. Any lasting impressions about Acer, samsung, etc glassless monitors with eye tracking?

Seems Helixmod is thankfully still alive thanks to DSS, Masterotaku, Dave geo11, Helifax, flugan and a few others behind the scenes.

My impression is the solutions provided by Helixmod after our brain storm was very limited in creativity and ambition. We also lost great shaderhackers and Bo3b.

Helix is the only one who can do something, but that legendary hero is MIA.

Myself I’ll stick to Helixmod 2022 database, Losti’s last contributions, Genius Dave geo11, Helifax great contributions and Masterotaku’s amazing passionate free contributions that work on 40 series.

Ambition was a hit and miss due to the majority in this community being apathetic and low donations actions. The community just squeezed as much for free out of Helixmod and gave zero fucks back.

I donated when I couldn’t even buy water or bread. Alas we have many cultures and creeds here. Thank you for your support and stay safe.

Best Regards,

Miguel Pedras