Battletech (MechWarrior Strategy Game) DHR Unity Univ. Fix

[RAGEdemon]

Dear Fellow MechWarriors,

There is now a playable fix for this amazing game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsIMfOo_VO0

Season Pass on Steam: ~25 £/$/EUR
Alternatively: ~12 £/$/EUR from here:
https://www.allkeyshop.com/blog/buy-bat ... re-prices/

Updated on 9 Feb 2020.

All credit goes to:
DSS, Bo3b, DHR, DJ-RK, Losti.

Usage:
1. Unzip into main game directory.
2. Create game shortcut with the following parameters: "-window-mode exclusive" (without the " "); alternatively just run START.cmd
3. If using DSR, you have to set your desktop resolution to the game resolution you want to use before launching the game.
4. You might need to Alt-Enter a couple of times before Stereo is allowed to kick in.

Recommended:
This mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/273
My custom settings file for this mod is attached, which disables blur, FXAA, scanlines, filmgrain, etc. to give best Image Quality.

If your system can handle it, in NVidia control panel:
+ 4x DSR + 0% Smoothing (See Usage Note #3).
+ 100% sharpening
+ 16x Anisotropic Filtering. (Really, this setting ought to always be set for all games as it gives immense IQ improvement with negligible performance cost)
+ Toyification (Doll-House Effect) - Zoom out fully, setting the convergence so that the crossover is at ~screen depth of the closest object, while setting the separation (depth) infinity at your IPD (100% depth and beyond). If done correctly, it ought to look brilliant in 3D as a table-top toy-figure game; though of course arguably 'unrealistic'.

Caveats:
- Ship cutscehes etc, I personally need to disable Stereo due to my toyification settings. Your mileage may vary depending on your S3D preferences.
- Again, due to toyification, best to disable all zooms from the game gameplay settings, or else the camera will zoom in on action and break 3D with insane convergence.
- Night missions may have halos - turn lighting to lowest and restart game if this bothers you.

Happy Hunting!

[Skawen]

This is good news.

This game was on my radar for some time, but with large backlog of 3d games I haven't looked at it.

This will be nice to know that there is the fix, when I got my hands on it

Thank You RAGEdemon for the fix!

[Zappologist]

Thank you RAGEdemon for tackling this game. It's great to know if will b playable in 3D.
I've played the original Mechwarrior games, which I thought were awesome games, so I alway found it sad that we never had a reboot/sequel of those, with modern graphics (I mean of course single player ones, not the tripe multiplayer ones riddled with microtransactions or repetitive gameplay).

This being a strategy game, I was not immediately interested, especially due to some reviews mentioning things that I did not particularly like. But there was a DLC, making the game a little more "free/open-world" I think, so it might be worth playing now.
Please share your thoughts on gameplay and performance, when the fix is more complete.

There is also a new single player Mechwarrior game proper, but only on Epic so I'll ignore that one for a while. But I wonder whether anyone tried it in 3D. It would be the first of the series, and it probably would be very exciting to play in 3D.

[skyrimer]

Fantastic news, old time Mechwarrior fan so great to hear this,thanks a lot for the fix.

[Losti]

Hi Chaps,

For any fellow MechWarriors out there, there is a brilliant game which is very highly rated on all review sites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsIMfOo_VO0

DHR's Universal Unity Fix 5.6 does a good job of fixing things; and with the kind help from DJ-RK, I have disabled most of the remaining annoyances. 3D now looks superb with table-top "toyification" view.

It's not perfect, but if anyone is interested in playing this game, I shall make an effort to repackage and upload the modified fix to the usual place.

All the best!

If this is below UNITY 2019 i can run the DarkStarSword script on this and provide the fixed files. In combination with the DHR fix its often perfect, sometimes the DSS script will not fix the some things and the other way round. I can provide this tomorrow.

If the HUD shaders are the same as often, i an also provide some HUD fix. But no promise. No more attemps here than the quickest i can do :-9 But it may help making things better ^^

[RAGEdemon]

Thank you everyone for the interest - all credit to our amazing shaderhackers - True heroes like Losti above.

Losti, your immense experience would yield far better results than mine mate; as you will likely be able to stereorise the HUD elements as well as the effects which I only had the newbie knowledge to disable.

DHR's Unity 5.6 fix had the best outcome - other options in his .ini file were for 5.5 and 2017 which didn't seem to affect anything though I could be wrong. I googled which unity version the game uses - there was general confusion but someone mentioned that it's not the latest so there may well be scope.

The only real problem area left is that the HUD is 2D which is fine except for floating Mech health bars - my high convergence and separation settings for toyfication means that the 2D health bars for Mechs at various depths of the scene/screen is a tad annoying. But I wouldn't imagine how it might even be possible to Stereorise these properly so they appear at the correct screen depth as the Mechs.

If you have some free time, please do give any fix a try if this thread has piqued your interest mate - any quick fix from you in whatever form would be magic I'm sure

[Losti]

The game in version 1.8.1 uses UNITY 2018.4. You simply need to rightclick the EXE file and choose properties. Than go to details tab an here you see the file version. This equals the UNITY version.

If some elements are in depth by default this is done by the driver. So we just need to remvoe the driver stereo correction and than put it into depth. If this will not work, the stereo formula for the vertex shader shouldwork to push @ screendepth first, and then stereorize again and use iniparams for scaling.

Identify the VS shader, than look foor something like this one (not exactly this is only an example)

Code: Select all

void main(
  float4 v0 : POSITION0,
  float3 v1 : NORMAL0,
  float4 v2 : COLOR0,
  float4 v3 : TEXCOORD0,
  float2 v4 : TEXCOORD1,
  out float4 o0 : SV_POSITION0,
  out float4 o1 : COLOR0,
  out float4 o2 : TEXCOORD0,
  out float4 o3 : TEXCOORD1,
  out float4 o4 : TEXCOORD2,
  out float4 o5 : TEXCOORD3,
  out float4 o6 : TEXCOORD4,
  out float4 o7 : COLOR1,
  out float4 o8 : TEXCOORD5)

Her you can see the in and output definitions. The output for the VS is SV_POSITION0, so in this case its o0.

next to this line s cou will have something like this:

Code: Select all

  float4 r0,r1,r2,r3;
  uint4 bitmask, uiDest;
  float4 fDest;
[code]

Just add the stero params declaration and some ini declaration here. I often use x20 for HudDepth ini params:

float4 stereo = StereoParams.Load(0);
float4 HudDepth = IniParams.Load(int2(20,0));

Scoll down to the end of the HLSL file before the commented ASM file begins, here you have a 

[code]
  return;
}

BEFOR this you can add the normal stero correction:

o0.x-=stereo.x*(o0.w-stereo.y);

This should remove the depth if the shader has some depth. BUT may you need +- here: o0.x-=stereo.x*(o0.w-stereo.y);

If this will make the element screen depth, we can use this for dimple HUD scaling:

o0.x+=stereo.x*HudDepth.x;

or

o0.x-=stereo.x*HudDepth.x;

In the constant section of d3dx.ini you can define the x20 = 0.1 for 10 % HudDepth

Or make a key in key section like this:

[KeyHUD]
key = /
x20 = 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5 ..... AND SO ON
type=cycle

Than you can use the / key for cycle HudDepth.

If this is not working you can remove the driver stereo correction for this shader by declairing CB12

Just put this @ the beginning of the shader (after the commented out migoto lines:

cbuffer DriverStereoParams : register(b12)
{
float driver_neg_sep_conv;
float driver_sep;
}

==> in case shader uses CB12 for stereo params but this is 99 % the case.

As i can remember this may not work, than i switch to ASM....

But you can try it

DSS script stops working with an error, so no quick fix here

[RAGEdemon]

Thank you for giving it a try Losti

I did try following your instructions but being a newbie, I found some of the hud shaders but wasn't able to follow the coding successfully.

I took a screen of how things look as it stands - It's not perfect, but for me, it's more than playable.

Semi-Fix attached - All credit to the usual suspects.
Using the latest 3DMigoto .dll file.

[Updated OP with fix and instructions]

[Losti]

If you want i can have a look at the HUD. I think i can find some Time today.

[RAGEdemon]

Please don't bother on my account mate - I am obliged to you enough already! If you have personal interest then you might be inclined to consider it

To be honest, I personally would not see any difference between the current screen depth HUD vs a hud which was at a different static depth as I would adjust it to ~screen depth anyway. I think the only real improvement that can be made to the HUD is if it was possible to display health bars part of the HUD at /different/ depths simultaneously, floating on top of each Mech.

All the best!

[Zappologist]

So great to see collaboration between Losti and RAGEdemon, and in general some inexperienced people taking up fixing like Signal from Tolva or Rebel Galaxy. Feels so good to see this, to see all the documentation and experience and hints of the "masters" being put to good use by anyone from the community.

Regarding Battletech specifically, can whoever played it maybe provide some thoughts on gameplay, performance (especially for 4K TVs, resolution scaling is a must), personal opinions on the game design and general state of the game as it is now. I always enjoy user comments and opinions on these things.
Thanks

[RAGEdemon]

Hi Zappologist,

In my personal opinion, I would say it depends on the person - the best thing to do is watch a few playthrough videos on youtube.

It's not a AAA game so there are quite a few creases that need ironing out - but those creases can add a lot in their own way.

For example - The early part of the game is quite difficult because:

1. There is no real tutorial except a few hints - one can be left frustrated because the action you want to perform cannot be performed and you don't know why. I had to google tutorial videos before I understood what was going on.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QckUSyYM2Fw

2. At the beginning, there is very low reward for missions but your Mechs are likely to get damaged easily - repair/healing will take a LONG time due to your beginning unupgraded ship, and the monthly expenses will mean it is a challenge to even remain afloat on the first playthrough.

An example is an early mission where you can choose to be tasked with assassinating a pirate leader. My best Lance config was 2 medium mechs and 2 light mechs. The pay was extremely low, certainly not commensurate to the difficulty (the mission difficulty rating was not representative of actual difficulty and the payout was a third of the monthly running cost). The mission contained 4 medium/medium-light enemy mechs, which devastated my mechs even though the mission was successful. The refit of my mechs took a month and though the mission was a success, it was a net heavy loss for my funds. I decided to reload and skip this mission until a later time. Certainly, it is viable to airlift out in an emergency situation, and I have wondered if the devs intended for the player to do this.

Likely you will go bust (game over) if you continue on the low income missions - this early game difficulty surge is a rather strange design choice.

Though saying that, this is actually a silver lining - the difficulty can be unpredictable and the game does not hold your hand - it's all the more rewarding an experience, much like playing STALKER for the first time after having played much simpler FPS games such as Quake prior to that...

Performance:
It's a unity game so it's CPU bottlenecked with my 2080Ti. The threading isn't great but it means you ought to be able to play natively on a 4k display with a decent GPU. General FPS is solidly locked at 60 for me, however other people have indicated performance issues - I believe these people are playing with low specs so of course they will have problems, as with most games.

I have only barely finished the first main story mission after the 2 prologue missions. In total, I have played maybe ~8 missions.

Because the game is initially quite hard and requires some steep learning, it can be very rewarding. I would say the overall mechanics can be compared to a simpler version of Original Sin 2.

Really, my 'opinion' is very subjective - best to watch some youtube videos.

The main reason I personally picked it up was Nostalgia due to loving MechWarrior games through my younger years, and having good memories of Mech Commander - I downloaded a mod which changed some sound effects to the ones from the older MechWarrior games - the PPC scream made the hairs on my neck stand up...

[Zappologist]

Thank you for taking the time for this write-up, RAGE!
There are indeed some wonky mechanics here, stemming from the presumably lower budget, but if it delivers on the fantasy of managing a company of mercenaries and it has good/addictive progression, then it would be right up my alley. As far as I could keep myself informed on this game for a few years, this was not the case at release. After a number of DLCs it seems a lot of things are better. Also, I did not yet check but there might be mods out there which make up for the obscure training, and incoherent difficulty spikes, which might make the game an essential play.
Makes me think of Kingdom Come Deliverance, a game I've avoided for the longest time due to some grim critical feedback, but which after several patches, DLCs and some simple mods turned out to be the biggest surprise I've had in gaming, for years. Battletech might be the same, here's hoping!

[Losti]

Thank you for giving it a try Losti

I did try following your instructions but being a newbie, I found some of the hud shaders but wasn't able to follow the coding successfully.

Some attemps here:

You can try this. Its using the 2017 shader RegEx from DHR that fies most effects here, except some decalls. I skipped this, i cant find a formula this time, but its only a matter of time ^^

I have added the HUD DEPTH, may be some HUD elements are remain at screen depth, than we need to hunt the shader and simply add the correction. HUD DEPTH can be cylced with / key.

Also added some fixed i can make i have seen like the sun glow.

The damn hexagon is out of depth ... i can add a convergence depending fix but its appereance became verry wrong.... need more tiome for this one.

Some AO or fog/dust is at screen depth, no time today for adress this one.

If you want you can try this version, this may bring back some effects for you and add some hud depth in genreal. Ifyou have savegames for me, i can have a look @ more areas. But for the first time there are issues left even in the first part of the game. Im not sure if i can fix this in a suitible period of time ... th DSS Script would do i am sure but it will not run through. I have contacted him but i dont except a resonse soon here.

ANYONE HERE KNOWING / LIKED Earthsiege 2 ???????????? )))

Ok here is my attempt until now:

https://losti.s3.amazonaws.com/BATTLETECH.zip

I think we need some matrix immersion for the Deals. I can check similar shaders and more things those days. But na Time is limited the next days.

[RAGEdemon]

Thank you Losti - the HUD is now 3D at the middle of my virtual table - much better

You were right, I am now able to max all graphics settings within the game. I have disbaled the problem shaders for this 2017 version.

Everything is looking great, however there is a single problem:

The Fog Of War / cloud shadows shader is at screen depth but if I disable it, a lot of menu screens are blank for example the mission loading screen with the 'mission start' button which we are then unable to click on if the shader is disabled.

Right now, I am manually hunting this shader every time I start the game and disabling it when required and enabling it again on the fly using numpad0.

How would one assign a hotkey to disable/enable this shader, or perhaps automate it somehow?

Code: Select all

[ShaderOverride_a78b42d7ce6b408f]
Hash=a78b42d7ce6b408f
Handling=skip

I shall upload the updated fix once there is a solution.

Thank you once again!

[Losti]

Yeah i am on it again, id like to play it sometimes Time was up yesterday.

[Zappologist]

And in case RAGEdemon's and Losti's work put anyone in the mood, this game plus all DLCs is only about 27 eur on Green Man Gaming and about 30 eur on Steam (the Mercenary Edition).

[Losti]

Argh this is a game i skip for the moment, its too hard for me ! If i watch the DSS script fiexed files for other games i know why ^^ Ther are much more things i am not able to achive. AutoDepth Hud is working but is strange (scalingwith CONVERGENCE), even some other effects, and this is also related to some false fixed files by the universal fix. This game needs the DSS magic or a fix from the scratch. Ill not do this this time

Here is my last version for this one you may can build up a propper fix.

https://losti.s3.amazonaws.com/BATTLETECH2.zip

Try it and add your skippings.

If this is not more cool than your first version and you only want to have HUD depth, just use the VS shaders i have added here, if you open they will have a comment like "HUD"

If you are finished, please post the fix @ helix mod blog

AutoDepth HUD is implemented for the main shaders but disabled in the shader. The damn Depth buffer changes with convergence!! I can make a convergence depending formula for this b ut i dont want to spend any more time here for this one. I have to hold my promise i gave my whife!!!!

Good luck here. Make the best out of this and enjoy the game!

[RAGEdemon]

Thanks Losti, I have added the shader disables and shall upload to the blog as soon as I figure out how.

I have read this but am unclear about what to click to start a new game post?
https://helixmod.blogspot.com/2013/10/i ... dated.html

Continuing on from what Zappologist kindly states, the season pass is also available for ~12 £/$/Euros here - I have personally not had many problems, but when I did, I got a refund.

https://www.allkeyshop.com/blog/buy-bat ... re-prices/

[Losti]

You need to send a PM to bo3b and you will get acess to the blog.

[RAGEdemon]

Fix and instructions updated in first post.

PM read by bo3b but no response as yet - please feel free to upload it to HelixMod yourselves Gents - sharing is caring

All the best!

[Dpa3D]

Thanks a million guys I had disabled a couple of the worst shaders and was playing through, as best I could, but this is excellent! You have my gratitude

[bo3bber]

@Losti: Since you've worked on this as well, please do me a favor and create a blog post for RageDemon's fix, and work out with him whatever the final fix final looks like.

Edit: Page is up.

[RAGEdemon]

@Losti: Since you've worked on this as well, please do me a favor and create a blog post for RageDemon's fix, and work out with him whatever the final fix final looks like.

Ah, god emperor bo3b has some imagined beef with RAGEdemon from years ago, so doesn't want to give him posting privileges to a community asset that he happens to admin

Mate, not a single one of us ought to be in a position to prevent others from contributing - we are all on the same team. I guess attempting to rile our awesome community against this "ungrateful wretch" and have me banned from the nVidia forums for "clickbait" didn't work out as expected?

We love you bo3b, but sometimes you are difficult to understand.

We are a small, dying community mate. This pettiness ought to be beneath us. You will note that I have extended an olive branch to you on many an occasion for years - perhaps look at who the earnest author of the top review of your HelixVision software is on Steam to prove that I hold no ill will towards you; even if you have ignored me for years and want to hold long grudges.

We all look up to you bo3b, you're better than this...

But whatever man, I hope you get the satisfaction you are looking for in denying me something so trivial.

All the best

[bo3bber]

Ah, god emperor bo3b has some imagined beef with RAGEdemon from years ago, so doesn't want to give him posting privileges to a community asset that he happens to admin

Mate, not a single one of us ought to be in a position to prevent others from contributing - we are all on the same team. I guess attempting to rile our awesome community against this "ungrateful wretch" and have me banned from the nVidia forums for "clickbait" didn't work out as expected?

We love you bo3b, but sometimes you are difficult to understand.

We are a small, dying community mate. This pettiness ought to be beneath us. You will note that I have extended an olive branch to you on many an occasion for years - perhaps look at who the earnest author of the top review of your HelixVision software is on Steam to prove that I hold no ill will towards you; even if you have ignored me for years and want to hold long grudges.

We all look up to you bo3b, you're better than this...

But whatever man, I hope you get the satisfaction you are looking for in denying me something so trivial.

All the best

Ah, there's the RageDemon that I know and expect. At the first sign of not getting his way, he immediately jumps to conclusions and becomes the passive aggressive a*hole. Pretend to be friendly while stabbing people in the back. Sure thing, 'mate'.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm super busy? Nah, my motivation surely must be to damage the community. The one I've worked on extensively for the past 5 years.


When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Maya Angelou

[RAGEdemon]

Ah, there's the RageDemon that I know and expect. At the first sign of not getting his way, he immediately jumps to conclusions and becomes the passive aggressive a*hole. Pretend to be friendly while stabbing people in the back. Sure thing, 'mate'.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm super busy? Nah, my motivation surely must be to damage the community. The one I've worked on extensively for the past 5 years.


When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Maya Angelou

Wow, harsh accusations and surprising language there bo3b;

Demanding my way?
Passive aggressive?
Pretending to be friends?
Backstabbing?
A*hole?

It's disappointing to hear these words come out of your mouth mate.

Actions:
1. You ignored my message after reading it.
2. You asked someone else to upload the fix under their own account instead of me ( - important distinction here), presumably after eqzitara queried you?
3. A long time has passed - you have time to post and even ask others to do it, but not add me to the allowed list. Your intentions are clear mate.

Perhaps you might remember that time you tried to get me banned from the nVidia forums and make me look bad to the community by painting me as some kind of spammer?

- You go out of your way to exclude me, bo3b.

--

You will no doubt remember that you didn't want to come join us on discord because your main issue was that I as moderator would act tyrannically and ban you unfairly.

Action:
I went out of my way to ensure that you would get higher privileges than myself on discord so that you would have all power over me but not I over you.

- I go out of my way to include you, bo3b

"Actions speak louder than words" -- Abraham Lincoln, 1856.

Through your accusations, perhaps you are projecting what you would have done to me had the roles been reversed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

It's hurtful mate; but you can continue to believe nasty things about me to justify your actions if it helps you sleep at night. ;'-)

All the best.

[bo3bber]

@RageDemon: The primary thing I cannot tolerate about you, is the constant dismissive and belittling tone that you use. This is clearly your rhetorical style, and I suggest that it does not serve you well. You come across as the font of all wisdom, and anyone disagreeing with you must simply be a child. I'm not willing to put up with your dismissive behavior, and have called you out on it multiple times. Direct ad hominem attacks have no place on the forums, and not from me either, but you never do care.

You also employ the very Trumpian tactics of projection, stating that I'm behaving in the exact manner that YOU are behaving. Another characteristic of the Trumpian approach is to never once take responsibility for any problems you cause. It's always someone else's fault. Never apologize, always attack. I really have no patience for this level of rhetorical bullsh*t.


If you were genuinely interested in solving the problem, you could have said:

Bo3b, I know we've had arguments in the past, and it seems like you don't want to give me posting privileges to a community asset that you admin.

Mate, not a single one of us ought to be in a position to prevent others from contributing - we are all on the same team.

We love you bo3b, but sometimes you are difficult to understand.

We are a small, dying community mate. You will note that I have extended an olive branch to you on many an occasion for years - perhaps look at who the earnest author of the top review of your HelixVision software is on Steam to prove that I hold no ill will towards you; even if you have ignored me for years and want to hold long grudges.

We all look up to you bo3b, you're better than this...

All the best

But that's not what you said, or how you approached it, is it? You had to take the path of the a*hole with petty digs, and trying to discredit me.


You showed me who you really are in the NVidia forums. And again here. I believe you.
.

[RAGEdemon]

Ah, I'm glad you're being honest now and finally admit that you had no intention of adding me - whatever floats your boat mate, it doesn't really matter to me because it doesn't benefit me in any way - it does benefit the community however, so who are you really hurting?

Now now bo3b, you know well that I have reached out to you on a number of occasions with an olive branch, despite you calling me an "ungrateful wretch" and starting a thread to attack me personally: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... clickbait/

What was my heinous crime? I dared to say that nvidia's corporate strategy prioritises profit, while discussing ludicrous RTX prices in an RTX graphics card thread that I myself started - Wow, what audacity!

But let's be honest here - You did this because you were angry - You held shares in nVidia, and felt 'shown up' by my statement that provided backing evidence to show that corporations lust after short and long term profit as a primary goal - Shocker!

Code: Select all

 If I recall, you stated that 3D Vision wasn't profitable but nVidia kept it alive regardless as a counterargument, which is a fair point - only for nVidia to then kill 3D Vision because it wasn't profitable, and you consequently selling your nVidia shares in protest - oh the irony ;-) 

- For what it's worth, I am sorry my well known 'revelation' bruised your ego so much that you had to start a whole new thread to attack me, trying to make me look bad to the community and get me banned from the forums by vaguely linking my take to 'anti-clickbait' forum rules

How did that work out? Our awesome community saw through your charade and ignored your thread for the most part, and you disappeared for a long, long time...

Regardless, I responded to your attacks nicely, and even attempted to educate you about your argument fallacies such as Ad Hominem and Straw Man - I'm glad you learned about them
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... t/2050047/

In fact, here's my last message to you:

Hi bo3b,

We miss you man. I hope you're doing well!

Come join us on Discord - DSS has given all shaderhackers moderating privileges; you're welcome to come and kick me out if it'll make you feel better!

I personally don't hold any ill will; I just want everyone to be happy and free

Friends have disagreements all the time, but what truly defines a good friendship is that it overcomes them. I still consider you my friend.

I earnestly hope you'll join us again. Your presence is well missed mate.

Kind regards,
-- Shahzad

Which you promptly ignored of course but really bo3b, who is the aggressor? Introspection, my friend, is good for the soul.

Now, you tried to deceive everyone above about your time constraint which is now obvious to all; and when I called you on it, you changed your tune - that if I had sucked up to you, you would have 'allowed' me to contribute to our community website - which is simply another Bad Faith fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith - I have been nice to you for a long time bo3b, without much in the way of reciprocation, but abundant vitriol instead - "a*hole", "ungrateful wretch"...

Speaking of Trumpisms, you will no doubt agree that HelixMod is a community asset and effort; it is not your own personal property. Anyone in the community ought to be allowed to contribute, not only those who you personally feel are nice to you or grovel to win your favour

It doesn't look like you have shared admin privileges with others such as DSS, Losti, Helifax et al. - If you get hit by a bus tomorrow, does HelixMod die? Since you don't "have time" and all, it would be a good idea to share with those you trust - with the added benefit being that you won't have to deal with "ungrateful wretches" such as myself

On a related note, does your HelixVision software use fixes made by others from HelixMod? I don't know, but if it does, I hope there is some kind of income sharing with our awesome ShaderHackers and others behind the scenes who also work extremely hard to make fixes...

Sharing is caring my friend

Through your actions, you have shown me who you truly are too, bo3b - personally attacking, logical fallacy using, wildly accusing, name calling, bad faith arguing, attempted deceiving, reputation tarnishing, projecting, power tripping, vindictive, trying to get me banned, gatekeeping community assets, not being honest about motivations... the list goes on, and I believe you too - whether you might look inward and admit it to yourself or not.

In contrast to you, however, I believe in forgiveness and second chances - I respect your contributions to our community; - it's sad that you won't say the same about me, but, alas that's a reflection upon you.

As I said in my last olive branch to you:

Friends have disagreements all the time, but what truly defines a good friendship is that it overcomes them. I still consider you my friend.

[bo3bber]

@RageDemon: Again with the complete and utter disrespect. If anyone spoke to me like this in real life I would punch them in the face. And promptly lose that fight, because I'm waaay out of shape and have a cracked rib.

You keep pretending that you are friendly, but friends don't act like you act. Actions do speak louder than words, and your actions, attacking me at every opportunity, suggest I'm somehow a mortal enemy, not a friend. My last post specifically demonstrated how I would expect people to communicate with me, which you promptly ignored for another diatribe. It's not OK.

Based on your Trumpian debating style, I have to assume that you know exactly what you are doing in trying to belittle and discredit me. However, there is a very outside chance that you are in fact this clueless and don't understand that this tactic makes YOU look bad, not me.

If your snide comment about introspection is not actually a debating tactic- then you should definitely take your own advice and reflect upon how you want to be seen. I use my real voice on all forum posts. This is me in real life, as well as on forums. It's how I want to be seen and judged.

I would humbly recommend that you use your real voice, and not this Trumpian style of rhetoric that makes you come across as a giant a*hole.


I'm going to quote RageDemon's reply in full, because he has a history of editing his posts when called out.

Ah, I'm glad you're being honest now and finally admit that you had no intention of adding me - whatever floats your boat mate, it doesn't really matter to me because it doesn't benefit me in any way - it does benefit the community however, so who are you really hurting?

Now now bo3b, you know well that I have reached out to you on a number of occasions with an olive branch, despite you calling me an "ungrateful wretch" and starting a thread to attack me personally: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... clickbait/

What was my heinous crime? I dared to say that nvidia's corporate strategy prioritises profit, while discussing ludicrous RTX prices in an RTX graphics card thread that I myself started - Wow, what audacity!

But let's be honest here - You did this because you were angry - You held shares in nVidia, and felt 'shown up' by my statement that provided backing evidence to show that corporations lust after short and long term profit as a primary goal - Shocker!

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 If I recall, you stated that 3D Vision wasn't profitable but nVidia kept it alive regardless as a counterargument, which is a fair point - only for nVidia to then kill 3D Vision because it wasn't profitable, and you consequently selling your nVidia shares in protest - oh the irony ;-) 

- For what it's worth, I am sorry my well known 'revelation' bruised your ego so much that you had to start a whole new thread to attack me, trying to make me look bad to the community and get me banned from the forums by vaguely linking my take to 'anti-clickbait' forum rules

How did that work out? Our awesome community saw through your charade and ignored your thread for the most part, and you disappeared for a long, long time...

Regardless, I responded to your attacks nicely, and even attempted to educate you about your argument fallacies such as Ad Hominem and Straw Man - I'm glad you learned about them
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... t/2050047/

In fact, here's my last message to you:

Hi bo3b,

We miss you man. I hope you're doing well!

Come join us on Discord - DSS has given all shaderhackers moderating privileges; you're welcome to come and kick me out if it'll make you feel better!

I personally don't hold any ill will; I just want everyone to be happy and free

Friends have disagreements all the time, but what truly defines a good friendship is that it overcomes them. I still consider you my friend.

I earnestly hope you'll join us again. Your presence is well missed mate.

Kind regards,
-- Shahzad

Which you promptly ignored of course but really bo3b, who is the aggressor? Introspection, my friend, is good for the soul.

Now, you tried to deceive everyone above about your time constraint which is now obvious to all; and when I called you on it, you changed your tune - that if I had sucked up to you, you would have 'allowed' me to contribute to our community website - which is simply another Bad Faith fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith - I have been nice to you for a long time bo3b, without much in the way of reciprocation, but abundant vitriol instead - "a*hole", "ungrateful wretch"...

Speaking of Trumpisms, you will no doubt agree that HelixMod is a community asset and effort; it is not your own personal property. Anyone in the community ought to be allowed to contribute, not only those who you personally feel are nice to you or grovel to win your favour

It doesn't look like you have shared admin privileges with others such as DSS, Losti, Helifax et al. - If you get hit by a bus tomorrow, does HelixMod die? Since you don't "have time" and all, it would be a good idea to share with those you trust - with the added benefit being that you won't have to deal with "ungrateful wretches" such as myself

On a related note, does your HelixVision software use fixes made by others from HelixMod? I don't know, but if it does, I hope there is some kind of income sharing with our awesome ShaderHackers and others behind the scenes who also work extremely hard to make fixes...

Sharing is caring my friend

Through your actions, you have shown me who you truly are too, bo3b - personally attacking, logical fallacy using, wildly accusing, name calling, bad faith arguing, attempted deceiving, reputation tarnishing, projecting, power tripping, vindictive, trying to get me banned, gatekeeping community assets, not being honest about motivations... the list goes on, and I believe you too - whether you might look inward and admit it to yourself or not.

In contrast to you, however, I believe in forgiveness and second chances - I respect your contributions to our community; - it's sad that you won't say the same about me, but, alas that's a reflection upon you.

As I said in my last olive branch to you:

Friends have disagreements all the time, but what truly defines a good friendship is that it overcomes them. I still consider you my friend.

[Feisty_Fernando]

Geesh. Something tells me this saga of conflict could go on for centuries. A lifetime of conflict speaking here:

If you both want 3D gaming to perish sooner, the dead-end circular blame routine seems like the way to go. I don't know either of you but if you were my kids I'd smack the both of you.

Keep it simple with communication. Be wiser than consciously fueling a pissing match or becoming ensnared in one. The past is the past, let it go as a demonstration of maturity. Compromise. If you choose to work together moving forward it's going to go a long way towards keeping 3D alive for those who fancy it and those who have yet to experience it.

There are people right this moment trying to get their 3D setup working and they might not have heard about 3DFM or mtbs3D yet.

[RAGEdemon]

Your wise sentiment is appreciated Feisty_Fernando - conflict within communities is poison - it doesn't decide who is right; - only who is left.

However, I would ask that one carefully considers the balance fallacy - the fallacy that both sides are wrong and the correct place to stand is ground firmly in the centre. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Balance_fallacy

Let's all take a step back and recount:

• Who is the one threatening violence?
  Who is the one calling the other an a*hole?
  Who is the one treating community assets as personal property?
  Who is the one gatekeeping the other?
  Who is the one lying to everyone about being busy as the reason for preventing a community member from contributing?

Now let's examine:

• Who is the one continuously extending his hand in friendship?
  Who is the one giving the other highest rated reviews? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127 ... views_hash
  Who is the one demoting his own privileges on our discord so that the other has higher privileges?
  Who is the one sending the other PMs for reconciliation?
  Who is the one thanking the other for their contributions to the community, while the other tried to get them banned from the community?

Clearly, both parties are not equal

======

@bo3b, It's really telling of your personality that you would resort to violence; I had not taken you for a common thug - were you bullied?

Threatening violence is uncool, man - I'm over 6', and gym / play sport regularly, but I would not fight over something stupid. This tactless approach to life, aside from being disrespectful, is simply not the right thing to do.

Calling people an a*hole isn't respectful either - Respect works both ways, my friend:

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"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Your Righteous indignation and Trumpian double standard over one-way "respect" is hilarious - thank you

Also, Pretending to 'call out' someone when they first call you out on your post edits is intellectually dishonest -- This link is right there in my post you quote
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... t/2050047/

Regardless, I have shown you that you are no different than what you /accuse/ me to be. If you /accuse/ others of being an a*hole, then can you not admit that you can be one too?

Can two alleged a*holes not be friends?

Aside from being alleged a*holes, we have plenty in common:

• We both have a dislike for Trump.
  We both love this community.
  We both love 3D.
  We are both Professional Engineers.
  Do you like Breakfast At Tiffany's? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClCpfeIELw

bo3b, I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hit "Submit", and show you what your mind doesn't want you to see - I'm going to show you a world where we can be friends - a world where one community member doesn't try to limit or control; a world without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible...

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...Where we go from here, is a choice I leave to you.

[bo3bber]

@Feisty_Fernando: My apologies in advance but the surest way to embolden a bully is to not stand up to them. Also, I know it's not cool, but I still think facts matter. For anybody tired of this melodrama, please definitely block this thread.

I seriously doubt that anyone actually cares about this discussion, but there are some straight up lies in what RageDemon posted, that I need to correct. If I don't 'fight' then the lies stand and people coming here later can get the wrong impression about me, and I'm not willing to accept that.


For anyone not familiar with debating tactics and rhetoric this will seems like some sort of serious fight, but really it's just extensive hyperbole and RageDemon using debating tricks to try to muddy the waters. You see this in politics all the time today, which is why I describe his approach as Trumpian. That's for the US of course, but you also see this in UK with people like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson.

Part of the Trumpian playbook is to always try to win, no matter the truth, no matter the topic, no matter the damage produced. Always bully. Always attack, never apologize. Accuse your opponents of the exact same bad behaviour you are using. Never respond to an actual argument. Always deflect by bringing up something irrelevant. When you lose the factual debate, then just start lying and repeat it as propaganda until it becomes the narrative. Anyone who reads RageDemon's posts about me can easily see this pattern.

Let's take some examples:

Ah, I'm glad you're being honest now and finally admit that you had no intention of adding me - whatever floats your boat mate, it doesn't really matter to me because it doesn't benefit me in any way - it does benefit the community however, so who are you really hurting?

A straight up bald faced lie, with no shame. I said no such thing. You'll note the glaring lack of quoted text.

Moreover the game page has been up for a week: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2020/01/battletech.html

So what's the point? Simply to try to discredit me and add question in people's minds that are not really paying attention to the details. Very much along the lines of smearing Biden with questions about Ukraine. Slimy behavior, but it's part of the playbook.

Now now bo3b, you know well that I have reached out to you on a number of occasions with an olive branch, despite you calling me an "ungrateful wretch" and starting a thread to attack me personally: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... clickbait/

What was my heinous crime? I dared to say that nvidia's corporate strategy prioritises profit, while discussing ludicrous RTX prices in an RTX graphics card thread that I myself started - Wow, what audacity!

Deflection. Doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. Here just to confuse and attempt to discredit me.

Offering an olive branch in one hand with a closed fist in the other is not a genuine offer. This is bullying behavior, not a genuine peace offering. A genuine offer would have skipped all the irrelevant crap about old forum posts. This is trying to show what a kind and gentle person he his, and simultaneously making me look bad with cheap digs. That's not an olive branch.

But let's be honest here - You did this because you were angry - You held shares in nVidia, and felt 'shown up' by my statement that provided backing evidence to show that corporations lust after short and long term profit as a primary goal - Shocker!

Code: Select all

 If I recall, you stated that 3D Vision wasn't profitable but nVidia kept it alive regardless as a counterargument, which is a fair point - only for nVidia to then kill 3D Vision because it wasn't profitable, and you consequently selling your nVidia shares in protest - oh the irony ;-) 

Another bald faced lie. The argument had nothing whatsoever to do with my owning NVDA, which I did not. Moreoever, the argument is specious because there is not a single person in 3D land that ever had any illusion it was making money or that NVDA cared.

So what's the point of this quote? Again, just to try to discredit me and make me look bad in front of my peers.

RageDemon doesn't actually know how to debate, but he for sure knows all of the tricks and gimmicks. In an actual debate, you respond to what the other person said in a rebuttal, not ignore it and bring up a completely different irrelevant topic. I can't be 'shown up' in a debate when the other person never actually responds to arguments presented. But in Trumpian land, this is par for the course. I'm sure everyone has seen this in spades. It's tiresome.

- For what it's worth, I am sorry my well known 'revelation' bruised your ego so much that you had to start a whole new thread to attack me, trying to make me look bad to the community and get me banned from the forums by vaguely linking my take to 'anti-clickbait' forum rules How did that work out? Our awesome community saw through your charade and ignored your thread for the most part, and you disappeared for a long, long time...

Another irrelevant argument meant to deflect and get me off on a tangent. The fact that NVidia does not moderate their forums does not mean I was wrong.

These gimmicks worked on me last time, and I did in fact leave for about a year. I planned to never return. So RageDemon can be proud that one of his finest contributions to the community was to drive me away from 3D altogether. At some point, I connected the dots between his posting style and Trump and realized he just uses Trumpian rhetoric to 'win' at all costs.

He is apparently trying to get me to leave in a huff again, but it's not going to work this time.

Regardless, I responded to your attacks nicely, and even attempted to educate you about your argument fallacies such as Ad Hominem and Straw Man - I'm glad you learned about them
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... t/2050047/

Pedantic deflection. RageDemon does this a lot because he knows it was annoying to me. Adding in wikipedia articles for things that I know more about than he does. I'm no longer annoyed, now I just see it as childish. And again with avoiding an actual rebuttal, having an actual conversation. Instead, he poisons the conversation with this type of claptrap, which is why he is not interesting to talk to. He doesn't ever have an actual conversation, he always responds with yet another monologue.

A person offering an actual olive branch, trying to be an actual friend, would have a conversation with you. They respond to what you said, they think about whether you might be right. A person trying to find common ground talks about the actual topic- not bring up years old arguments. RageDemon never argues in good faith like that, he simply blusters like this.

If you are wondering just what the F* does any of this tripe have to do with Battletech and HelixMod, you are not alone.

In fact, here's my last message to you:

Hi bo3b,

We miss you man. I hope you're doing well!

Come join us on Discord - DSS has given all shaderhackers moderating privileges; you're welcome to come and kick me out if it'll make you feel better!

I personally don't hold any ill will; I just want everyone to be happy and free

Friends have disagreements all the time, but what truly defines a good friendship is that it overcomes them. I still consider you my friend.

I earnestly hope you'll join us again. Your presence is well missed mate.

Kind regards,
-- Shahzad

Which you promptly ignored of course but really bo3b, who is the aggressor? Introspection, my friend, is good for the soul.

Anybody who posts private conversations to make a point cannot be trusted. I do not trust RageDemon, and I will never respond to anything he says in private. It's a public conversation or nothing.

It was a good message that he wrote. Why didn't he write that in public? And not follow it up with yet another cheap shot.

More the point and the actual crux of my beef with RageDemon is that he will never, ever apologize. He falsely accused me of editing my posts, to take a cheap shot and to try to discredit me with my peers. I called him out, and asked him to revert that lie. He ignored it. Then stopped responding altogether.

People who never apologize will never be my friend. We all make mistakes, we all need to own up when we do. With RageDemon, look for any post where he says "I'm sorry". Go ahead, I'll wait.

Now, you tried to deceive everyone above about your time constraint which is now obvious to all; and when I called you on it, you changed your tune - that if I had sucked up to you, you would have 'allowed' me to contribute to our community website - which is simply another Bad Faith fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith - I have been nice to you for a long time bo3b, without much in the way of reciprocation, but abundant vitriol instead - "a*hole", "ungrateful wretch"...

A good example of Trumpian style projection. Use the exact same technique of arguing in bad faith- then accuse your opponent of doing exactly that. It's a particularly slimy approach.

Secondly- this is another bald faced lie. So the irrelevant posting of Bad Faith wikipedia is a failed attempt to get me pissed off and arguging about that, and letting the lie stand unchallenged.

Anyone is welcome to contribute to HelixMods, even RageDemon. As admin I follow the lead of eqzitara, that any first time contributors are not automatically added as contributors. A lot of people do one-off or low-effort fixes, and we don't consider them to be ShaderHackers. Anybody who disagrees with this can take it up with DarkStarSword who is also an admin and can overrule me if he likes.

The point of asking Losti to post the BattleTech fix was because he was involved in the fix, and was already set up to post, which would have saved me time.

Speaking of Trumpisms, you will no doubt agree that HelixMod is a community asset and effort; it is not your own personal property. Anyone in the community ought to be allowed to contribute, not only those who you personally feel are nice to you or grovel to win your favour

It doesn't look like you have shared admin privileges with others such as DSS, Losti, Helifax et al. - If you get hit by a bus tomorrow, does HelixMod die? Since you don't "have time" and all, it would be a good idea to share with those you trust - with the added benefit being that you won't have to deal with "ungrateful wretches" such as myself

Another failed attempt to discredit me, by simply lying about the status and hoping no one notices. I cannot allow stuff like this go unchallenged, which is why I'm wasting my time writing all this up.

Here's the post: https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 81&t=23313

You'll note that it has not been edited. PhPBB marks any edited posts. The reason I point that out is because the very next deflection would be to accuse me of editing the post. For anyone not trying to discredit me, they can easily read that DarkStarSword is an admin for the HelixModBlog.

I have no idea why RageDemon takes such an approach with me, it just makes him look clueless or an a*hole. If he didn't like how fast I responded, he could have simply contacted DarkStarSword. But instead, he had to come here and start yet another fight with me.

On a related note, does your HelixVision software use fixes made by others from HelixMod? I don't know, but if it does, I hope there is some kind of income sharing with our awesome ShaderHackers and others behind the scenes who also work extremely hard to make fixes...

Markus (PaulDusler) and I have already publicly stated that we are giving 10% of all proceeds to ShaderHackers. HelixVision is also now paying the hosting fees for the file sharing. If there is even one other person that thinks that Markus and I should not profit from HelixVision, please let us know.

His first 'question' is fake, it's rhetorical and he knows it. Anyone who uses HelixVision knows for a fact that it's based off of 3DFM, and its primary value is the HelixMods. So again, this is simply an attempt to discredit me in front of my peers, and is absolutely a bad faith argument.

Sharing is caring my friend

Hmmm... Shall we catalog my contributions to HelixMod? And then let's catalog RageDemon's contributions?

Always possible to share more, but I feel like I've demonstrated by my actions that I care.

Through your actions, you have shown me who you truly are too, bo3b - personally attacking, logical fallacy using, wildly accusing, name calling, bad faith arguing, attempted deceiving, reputation tarnishing, projecting, power tripping, vindictive, trying to get me banned, gatekeeping community assets, not being honest about motivations... the list goes on, and I believe you too - whether you might look inward and admit it to yourself or not.

Again with the Trumpian tactic of accusing me of exactly the behavior he is showing. This is meant to confuse and distract. I've not done any of those things*, but if you look through his quoted posts, you will find him using all of those tactics.

Once I realized that RageDemon was acting in bad faith, I no longer cared what he has to say.

* Except name calling. Yeah, I did that, I called him an a*hole. If the shoe fits.

In contrast to you, however, I believe in forgiveness and second chances - I respect your contributions to our community; - it's sad that you won't say the same about me, but, alas that's a reflection upon you.

As I said in my last olive branch to you:

Friends have disagreements all the time, but what truly defines a good friendship is that it overcomes them. I still consider you my friend.

Except if that were actually true, and not just a cover for his anger and vitriol, then he would have said "I'm sorry" at least once. He would have edited his post to remove the bald faced lies, as I specifically asked. He wouldn't continue to post false statements about me.

I believe in second chances and forgiveness too, but only for people who actually acknowledge their mistakes and apologize.
.

[RAGEdemon]

This is great bo3b, let it all out - Do you need a tissue? - Unfortunately, your post was too long mate; I didn't read the majority of it once you started rambling about trump again - I guess you called me a*hole a few more times and moaned about one-way respect? Whatever man. Perhaps Pelosi ripping up Trump's speech might communicate with you better?

https://i.imgur.com/0Gl5eGD.gifv

I see you attempt too heavily to use reverse psychology - which is great for dealing with kids. Basically, you tell the child the opposite of what your intention is, and the child will do it out of spite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_psychology

Much like "I know RageDemon won't do X" because you want him to do X... this isn't a school playground mate

Respect is a two way street my friend. Have you given any thought to what gentlefolk, here and generally everywhere, think when you threaten violence, call them a*holes, ungrateful wretches, troll, childish etc., especially when they hold their hand out in friendship? It's sad... If you feel your reputation has been tarnished, then I'm afraid you only have yourself to blame.

Regarding you "disappearing for a year": You made a thread attacking me, but I simply replied nicely saying that I was not going to engage you, and I withdrew https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... t/2050047/. You then made 2 further rants on that thread, before promptly disappearing. Clearly, I had little if anything to do with your disappearance; I'm afraid you only have yourself to blame once again - in the end, it was you who trolled yourself.

Bo3b, isn't it time to take responsibility for your actions, instead of blaming others?

To be honest, it pains me to see you like this

I keep offering you the high road - it's a real shame that you keep slapping my hand away when in every post I hold my hand out towards you - I am not your enemy. If you want to take the low road and keep publicly embarrassing yourself, then that's your choice.

You seem to keep taking the Blues pill of hate and suspicion. Are you suffering from depression? One big symptom is seeing negativity and suspicious behaviour in positive actions by others.

Introspection is the key my friend - maybe it's time to try the red pill of reality?

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Be the change you want to see in the world

In this immediate context,

-- If you want people to delete posts you didn't like, then perhaps you might start by deleting posts you first made attacking them? Cause and Effect, my friend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality

-- If you want people to respect you, perhaps you ought to show them respect?

-- If you feel that you are owed an apology, perhaps it's an idea to apologise to others first?

It takes a big man to do these things. I have tried to be the bigger person over the years by PMing you letters of comradery, giving you honest and best rated public reviews, making you welcome on our discord by asking Admin to give you higher priveledges than myself, telling you I'm not going to engage you - and then promptly withdrawing when you create threads to attack me; and in this specific thread, holding out my hand in friendship in every post.

If you want to keep taking the Blues pill of hate and suspicion in return, then that's up to you.

Live Long and Prosper, my friend... V_o

All the best.

[nautymac]

When I try to use Helix mod site fix with Geo-11, it keeps crashing. I use geo-11 v0.6.109 and enable software mouse cursor(include = ShaderFixes\mouse.ini), unity fix(include = ShaderFixes\Unity56_DHR.ini).
Also, include hotkeys.ini on the fix.
No more crashing with geo-11 and I can use mouse in side by side 3D.

Here is the fix I'm using.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W6h0A- ... drive_link