Nvidia 3D vision on LG CX "half" success

[jk9]

Hello. I recently bought a working Nvidia 3D vision kit to use it with my LG OLED CX 55" TV.

I first tested the device on my old CRT monitor which generates up to 85 Hz. It work but gives me very flash or flickering screen.

I guess it is due to lower than 120 Hz refresh rate? but at least I can confirm that the deceives are all working fine.

My computer's got AMD 5800x with RTX 2080 btw.

Now, after fiddling all the TV options for hours and hours, I finally make it "half" working on my CX TV.

3D works literately only top half of the screen! Top half is perfect but bottom half shows doubled images which give me a headache to look at.

I found this article, https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?t=6176, says that I need to adjust the shutter timing a bit.

My question is how to do that? Does Nvidia 3D vision driver let me set the timing? Is there any 3rd party program allows me to do it?

It is so close now. It's like one step more to the success. Please share your knowledge. Thank you.

[3DNovice]

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[jk9]

AFAIK, your 2080 is HDMI 2.0b, so unless you are trying 1440P, you are fighting a losing battle

No, I am not even trying 1440p, 1080p is okay to me. And it seems like resolution doesn't really matter as Nvidia's demo program runs at 1440p and it still shows half and half.

I tried Starcraft 2 at 1080p, still half and half.

[3DNovice]

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[EpsilonLyrae]

What you want to do is possible-any LG OLED that can activate BFI at 120hz without it just cutting down to 60 frames per second can do this. Users on the 3d vision discord have confirmed it with the LG C1 and LG CX

You need CRU (custom resolution utility by toastyx), nvtimingsed (an open source software available on github that can be used to inject custom timings into the glasses driver), a display that supports backlight strobing / BFI at 120hz with low or no visible cross talk to get started

I hate to say "look at the discord" for something like this but currently that's where the discussion, advice, and trial/error happened. Another user and I were working on a formal guide at some point but it didn't manifest

If you're already familiar with how to use CRU, that'll give you a leg up on most. The gist of it is you use CRU to change the name of your display to match one from the 3d vision monitor whitelist, and then you use nvtimingsed to inject a set of glasses timings that are tailored to the 120hz mode of your display. The settings in nvtimingsed are abstract and most of them only labeled with a single letter, but please understand it's a reverse engineer effort modifying settings that Nvidia never released documentation for.

The reason OLED is specifically mentioned in the guide is because most Lcd monitors will start burning in the image if you try to backdoor 3d vision support into them. A perfectly alternating left/right image with no deviation in timing defeats the anti-image retention tech built into the panel. A few minutes of static content can take hours of normal use to scrub away, prolonged use this way may even result in permanent retention or possibly even panel damage. OLED panels don't experience this problem. BFI at 120hz is required because the 3d vision glasses are too slow to give a crosstalk-free image without a little help from the display itself. For the LG tvs specifically, due to 3d vision driver limitations that no one has figured out how to overcome yet, 4k 3d vision is not possible. 1080p and 1440p are recommended, though technically a slightly higher resolution is possible.

[treeeddd]

Code: Select all

Lcd monitors will start burning in the image if you try to backdoor 3d vision

I've never heard of that before, and why 3d vision will burn an image in an lcd when they aren't prone to burn in like oleds are.

nvtimingED is what is needed to adjust the timing of the glasses. With oled though, the low brightness is going to suck for 3d even if you get the timing correct. I got 3d vision working on the samsung odyssey G7, it makes full screen brightness of 360nit and I find I could use a little more like 500+ nits to better the gaming experience.

this is the thread I help someone setup nvtiminged for the odyssey G7: viewtopic.php?t=23330
I'm really impressed that 3d vision doesn't have to rely on 27inch TN panels anymore. But for oleds, the low brightness fullscreen brightness is the "knee-capped" of it's impressive response times. I guess there's a service menu hack that you can turn up the brightness for the C2 and below oleds though. I want to try the c2 or neo odyssey g7, hopefully this year the prices will drop significantly enough to purchase. I'd go c2 once they start clearancing out the old stock.

[EpsilonLyrae]

(incorrect / layman's terms ahead, sorry in advance to actual display engineers or electricians)

Image retention and burn in are two different things. I acknowledge I initially conflated the two in the prior post.


Voltage inversion algorithms are common to deter image retention in lcd displays. In a normal use case, a pixel on one frame might get "white" and positive signaling is used, and the next frame, negative signaling is used to display that same white. Technically, the same signaling is not used two frames in a row (or ever), so the image doesn't stick.

Let's assume the same conditions are true in a 120hz 3d vision signal - which in reality is taking 60 frames of content and displaying alternating left / right images to match the timing of external shutter glasses

A pixel may be flashing between two colors (let's use white and black as an example). Left frame is positive white. The voltage inverts, the right frame is negative black. Because the timing of the frames never changes and always perfectly switches between left / right imaging, in this example a positive white and a negative black are always used. This defeats the voltage inversion in use by the display, and now you start getting image retention.

There is actually a test UFO test for this. (warning: bright flashing images. Don't click if you're at risk for seizures. Prolonged use on many lcd monitors will result in image retention, which is temporary when used in short bursts but can become permanent over extended use)

https://testufo.com/flicker

In extreme cases of perfect black/white flicker, the area or areas on screen may actually experience a prolonged flicker effect in addition to, or in place of retaining any of the displayed text / imagery.

If you don't experience any image retention or prolonged flickering after closing that window, your monitor is probably a good candidate for use with 3d vision, in terms of preventing long term image retention.

[EpsilonLyrae]

You can also test this yourself in an emulator like Retroarch, which supports software based black frame insertion. Switch to 120hz. Don't have bfi / ulmb / any backlight strobing tech on the monitor itself enabled, just used the software based bfi of retroarch. Load up any game that has a Hud element on screen during the majority of your play time. In my experience, the time it took to clear stage 1 of turtles in time was enough to cause hours of image retention, the entire health and score hud were stuck on the display and didn't go away until there was several cumulative hours of normal use with no software bfi enabled afterwards.

[treeeddd]

in time was enough to cause hours of image retention

I don't think it's due to the 3d vision itself, it may be due to the type of display panel you have. I know that the 2022 IPS panels from auoptronic causes serious image retention from it's higher refresh rates. This isn't burn in though, burn in is permanent like that seen in oled displays.

With 3d vision working on TN panels or the VA panel in the odyssey G7, I don't experience any sort of image retention at all.

I have seen image retention on my MSI qled IPS panel from 2022, though these panels aren't fast enough for 3d vision to work at 120hz. yeah, 3d vision isn't causing the burn in or image retention though. In face BFI will sort of help with burn in for oleds, because the pixel are switching on and off.


oleds burn in, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my1lyUE7WVM

[3DNovice]

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[beyondterror]

Does anyone have the discord invite ?

[beyondterror]

Does anyone have the discord invite ?

Got it. Thanks

[3DNovice]

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