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 My friend had a strong psychological effect after trying. 
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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Hi,

Saturday I got some friends at my flat to test the Rift. One of them had a very strong and strange psychological reaction, I'll summarize it here with some details that might prove interesting:

At first, nothing special:
- some curiosity
- some slight apprehension when an other friend was testing Tuscany and said that it was "realistic, like reality".
- he hesitated at first, so I said "oh come on, try it". It was strange but he tested it with a smile.

Then he tried:
- 5 minutes testing random things around in Tuscany.
- not particularly impressed, so I asked if he had trouble focusing, seeing 3D and common issues from bad IPD values.

He then removed the Rift and:
- some silence while I was speaking about IPD and stuff.
- he started saying that he was feeling strange, a very odd feeling, not physical but psychological.
- as he tried to describe it to us, it became worse.
- he said that it was something hard to describe:
. something like the concept of being in another world, another reality.
. mostly unconscious, abstract. He tried to describe it, but said that even himself was not able to capture precisely the feeling. It was like anxiety but still related to the feeling of being in another distinct reality.

Throughout the rest of the day til midnight:
- he was rather quiet.
- he never retried the Rift.
- he had a hard time enjoying things even if we tried to make him concentrate on random unrelated things like if nothing happened.
- he said that according to his present feelings, he will never retry that experience again. More than that, he said that even if he had to pay 1000€ to rollback everything, he would do it.
- with time passing, it slightly calmed down internally, but it was still there and still strong when he left.

Now it's Monday:
- He said that the strong feeling changed to something less powerful but still very present. Something that does not want to go or diminish. A feeling of "mal-être dégueulasse", that corresponds to a disgusting anxiety/discontent/"depression".
- If it continues, he may have to go to a medic to see what is going on.

More info on his profile:
- he is a real experienced gamer. A skilled one also and has no troubles with any science-fiction, fantastic, horror products. More than that, an open-mind to any kind of experience. In fact I expected at first him to be very excited with the Rift before it turned strange.
- he should be 27-29 years old like myself.

My friend and myself would gladly appreciate if anyone experienced something similar or have any idea on what happened to him. Maybe a strange kind of phobia related to being in an alternate reality even if it's far from being realistic ?

Thank you for reading this.


Last edited by jis on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:55 pm
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I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but its a crucial question;

Was he under the influence of anything? I have not heard of such a strong reaction from people who are not under the influence.

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Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:57 pm
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He may have tested stuff in the past, but it was brief and years and years ago. This time even beer came later in the day, he was 100% chemically ok before trying.
Yeah and I'd like to precise that he got this strong feeling only when removing the Rift and after. He told me that everything was ok while inside.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:02 pm
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One interesting thing I've noticed is that some people are far far more susceptible to the immersion than others. Just watch youtube videos of the roller coaster rides.

Strange though, if your friend is a hard core gamer. You'd think he would be used to this.

Certainly he should be complaining more about the low rez / screen door effect more than anything else.

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Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:24 pm
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Um, did he swallow any red pills when he was inside the Rift? :lol:


Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:35 pm
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blazespinnaker> Yeah, I thought of that also. But the fact that he was not particularly impressed when he had the Rift on the head makes me think that it might not be related. Or maybe indirectly without him knowing.

LuckyLu> Haha I might tell him this. Maybe a move in the direction to dedramatize the situation.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:37 pm
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I would like to add that I have experienced something similar, although I do not believe it has disturbed me or disrupted me as severely as your friend. I didn't notice it after the first day of using the Rift, although I limited my sessions more so on the first day. I believe it started when I tried Minecraft with the Rift. After spending maybe 10-15 minutes inside and then taking it off, throughout the rest of the day I would have intermittent sensations of a ghost-like impression of still being in the VR space. The only thing I could relate this to would be a flashback type experience some people tend to experience after having tried psychedelics. I tried some many years ago, so who knows maybe the way this stuff works has a similar effect on those who've had some. Also, and I've noticed this as well after using a 3DS for awhile, whenever I try and focus on reading text, especially on a monitor or screen, there is a slight visual detachment, not like the text is blurry or out of focus, it just somehow seems off. It's such a vague feeling it's hard to pinpoint what exactly is going on.

One thing I would like to ask is does your friend have a history of mental disorders, or a history of depression? I'm not sure if the two are related, but I am diagnosed with bipolar disorder and wonder if that may be related to some of the strangeness I've experienced. However, I take medication for it, so this could also be a factor with the side effects. Whatever the cause, I hope your friend feels better soon!


Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:46 pm
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This really interests me. I feel terrible for your friend. This is definitely something that should be know if there are any more cases. I think I can understand the feeling. My girlfriend have joked about a situation like this, but it's a little frightening that it's plausible that some cannot handle VR. I guess it makes sense, just very unfortunate..

cerulianbaloo wrote:
One thing I would like to ask is does your friend have a history of mental disorders, or a history of depression? I'm not sure if the two are related, but I am diagnosed with bipolar disorder and wonder if that may be related to some of the strangeness I've experienced. However, I take medication for it, so this could also be a factor with the side effects. Whatever the cause, I hope your friend feels better soon!


This seems probable. I hope it's not true, having a history with severe anxiety and depression and a touch of schizophrenia in my relatives.
I imagine it will diminish with time, but going to a hospital would be a great idea. Good luck to your friend!


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:04 pm
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Could it have something to do with uncanny valley? I know that usually applies to humans but the end result sounds similar. Look up uncanny valley in Google and one of the first images is of an Asian mannequin. It is so real looking, yet so fake, I literally wish I could roll it back out of my memory because it freaked me out and gives me nightmares.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:08 pm
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cerulianbaloo wrote:
I would like to add that I have experienced something similar, ...

Thank you for sharing that. I just looked at the Wikipedia's page and I can remember that we experienced some rapid change of behaviour sometimes, with no real cause and becoming rapidly excessive, when we were younger. I am not a doctor, so I will not go further there, but this might be an "interesting" clue. But I also feel that he never reached a psychiatrist until now.
I hope the best for him because I am really sad that an experience that should have been something fun turned into something more complicated.

oculusfan wrote:
Could it have something to do with uncanny valley?

I can't say anything for or against that idea. I have no clue of what the uncanny valley means in medical/scientific terms, to what extents it goes. But when I asked him for details, he did precise that it was not really because of what he saw in the Rift, but more because of the concept of having been in an alternate reality. I joked at first, but I understood rapidly that this was serious and strong.


Last edited by jis on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:10 pm
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The symptoms you are describing might be depersonalization (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization)
I have experienced this myself, as i am struggeling with anxiety. It might be something of an uncanny valley thing. Not quite real, but to close. The brain just does not understand the mixed inputs.

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Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:15 pm
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Isolasjon wrote:
The symptoms you are describing might be depersonalization (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization)
I have experienced this myself, as i am struggeling with anxiety. It might be something of an uncanny valley thing. Not quite real, but to close. The brain just does not understand the mixed inputs.


Yeah, I told him the story of someone I met during my studies who had nightmares of what you call depersonalization for weeks and was filled with anxiety the rest of the time. He was unable to tell me if his feelings were related or not. Might be another good clue.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:24 pm
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This has probably been exacerbated by the fact that he was focusing on the uneasy part of his experience after he finished playing with it. I had something similar the first time I managed to see one of those magic eye pictures as a kid, although I loved it. Once I stopped looking at it, I didn't feel like I was in the real world anymore, and for some reason the magic eye picture seemed as real as the real world.
The only explanation I have for it is that my brain had tried to reconfigure itself for the new inputs it was receiving and so there was some of the new configuration still present and having to be re-written (for want of a better description) back to normal state. There is an interesting documentary on the brain recently called 'into the mind' and one of the things explored is the way the brain can reconfigure itself with different inputs. For instance, the visual system can actually be used when trained with touch inputs.

I hope your friend 'comes to his senses' ;-)


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:31 pm
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I wrote about this in another post somewhere but I don't think anyone replied. I believe what happened to your friend is he experienced an energetic shift in the alignment of his personal energy field. The Rift more or less altered his consciousness.
There are some Shamans that believe that our conscious perception is not a result of something taking place in our brain, but
that there is a spot within our personal energy field, (aura as it's commonly known) that's about the size of a tennis ball. They call it the 'Assemblage Point', because perception is assembled there. If you need more information Google it, or maybe you're
already familiar with it if you've read any Carlos Castaneda books. Anyway, the assemblage point takes sensory data from the universe at large in the form of filaments and they converge on that spot. The sensory
data is then interpreted by our brains, and our resulting perception depends on our culture, upbringing, language, tradition, etc.
Everyone in the world shares the same basic assemblage point location. It shifts slightly depending on the current modality, but right now it's common location is approximately 2 feet behind the right shoulder blade. A number of things
can force it to shift (drugs, ritual, meditation, conscious intention) to a new location -which results in a new perception, but it always/usually goes back to it's original location. Dreaming is actually the result of the assemblage point moving to the left side of our personal energy fields during the night while we sleep, and the reason our dreams are so chaotic and random all the time is because its always moving around. In order to perceive something coherently our Ap's must be stabilized on one spot. So
what happened to your friend? The Rift forced his assemblage point to move. His entire idea of reality was turned on it's head
in a single moment. I think his brain has probably rewired itself a little bit. It's a good thing. I bet you he'll go back in the Rift again one day, and he'll never forget the moment his entire world changed. To all the non believers, the Rift really is that
good to make you believe you're in another place/space and it's a very very trippy feeling. I truly believe the Matrix
is just around the corner.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:36 pm
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if this problem lingers on still, he should definitely go see a trained professional.
You must not tell him this the way I am saying it, because it can cause more discomfort.
But some people have latent psychological problems that can be triggered by strong experiences or dramatic events.

It can be something like the stress of a big exam, cold feet before marriage or experiencing something very new and
mindblowing. If he has had some bad trips on his previous experiences with stimulants, minor things that resemble this feeling
in the oculus rift could contribute for such feelings to resurface too.

Having longer lasting anxiety and bad feelings about something as mild as the Oculus Rift is (despite its coolness)
is so far from the norm, it does make me think that it might be a good idea to seek out at least an opinion of a professional.

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Last edited by Namielus on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:41 pm
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As someone who has been diagnosed with Depersonalization Disorder, his symptoms would lead me to believe that he is having a depersonalization episode. It's not uncommon, and should go away within a week. If it doesn't however, I would suggest getting a small amount of Nymphaea Cerulea aka Blue Lotus, make a tea with it. Blue Lotus is not habit forming, and should set your friend to normal after a single use. Blue Lotus has a calming- anti-anxiety affect and it also makes things feel more real.

Your brain is an amazing device and comes built in with error checking software. If your brain thinks that something is not right it sends off alarms. A feeling of uneasiness, a feeling that things are not real. For individuals like myself, due to abuse when I was younger, my body sends of the signal, to try and deal with my abusive past. My mind can literally not comprehend that those events ever took place. The medication that is given for Depersonalization is anti anxiety. And while it helps it doesn't make things feel real. I heard about Blue Lotus from a friend who had used it recreationaly, he had suggested that it might help. So, I did, and is the only thing I have ever come across that goes to the source of the problem of things appearing fake. Blue Lotus will not dull the senses or the mind. It is not habit forming. It does cause drowsiness, so I'd suggest taking it in the evening, if you do decide to get some. Like I said before, the depersonalization should be short term, his mind is just sending him warning signals that something isn't right. Which makes sense because of the Rift.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:42 pm
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I could be wrong but it sounds to me like your friend is an attention seeker and is putting it on even though all he felt was some nausea


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:51 pm
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I found something quite interesting when researching depersonalization as it applies to my own situation. The wiki page led me to a similar disorder, derealization. It defines it as "Derealization (sometimes abbreviated as DR) is an alteration in the perception or experience of the external world so that it seems unreal. Other symptoms include feeling as though one's environment is lacking in spontaneity, emotional coloring and depth.[1] It is a dissociative symptom of many conditions, such as psychiatric and neurological disorders, and not a standalone disorder."

Now here's the really interesting part that caught my eye, and especially seems applicable to the Rift,

Quote:
Derealization can also manifest as an indirect result of certain vestibular disorders such as labyrinthitis and vestibular neuronitis. This is thought to result from the experience of anxiety precipitated by the functional disparity that arises between the ability to reconcile external stimuli relative to motion and equilibrioception that are compromised by vestibular dysfunction with the internal perceptions and expectations regarding the physical environment. An alternative explanation holds that a possible effect of vestibular dysfunction includes responses in the form of the modulation of noradrenergic and serotonergic activity due to a misattribution of vestibular symptoms to the presence of imminent physical danger resulting in the experience of anxiety or panic, which subsequently generate feelings of derealization.


What I get from all that aside from some medical speak I don't fully understand, is if you've already got some form of serotonin related imbalance as those with depression and other mental disorders tend to, things which mess with your vestibular response mechanisms may affect them in a more pronounced way than normal folk, and can potentially trigger depersonalization/derealization related symptoms. Now is this to say that prolonged use of the Rift could actually manifest in vestibular disorders? Hard to say, I sure hope not. I'm not sure if any of this will be of help to your friend, but if comes down to seeing a doctor he may want to mention some of this to them as possible causes.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:22 pm
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hmm, i feel pity for your friend but on the other hand it assures me that VR is really the ultimate experience
and that i wont be dissapointed in any way.
Well the brain is a very, very active machine and i can well imagine that sth like this can happen.
A few years ago i tried some psychedelics seeds. Hawaiian baby wood rose. It was very strange and also
frightening. A few months later i sometimes had those bizarre flashbacks feeling a bit disoriented and nervous.
Good advice. Never try pyschedelic drugs with the Rift. There might happen some very strange things
especially if you are playing horror or violent games.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:49 pm
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Namielus wrote:
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but its a crucial question;

Was he under the influence of anything? I have not heard of such a strong reaction from people who are not under the influence.


Thats the first thing I thought of. It almost sounds like a bad trip to me.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:54 pm
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Lookforyourhands wrote:
I wrote about this in another post somewhere but I don't think anyone replied. I believe what happened to your friend is he experienced an energetic shift in the alignment of his personal energy field. The Rift more or less altered his consciousness.
There are some Shamans that believe that our conscious perception is not a result of something taking place in our brain, but
that there is a spot within our personal energy field, (aura as it's commonly known) that's about the size of a tennis ball. They call it the 'Assemblage Point', because perception is assembled there. If you need more information Google it, or maybe you're
already familiar with it if you've read any Carlos Castaneda books. Anyway, the assemblage point takes sensory data from the universe at large in the form of filaments and they converge on that spot. The sensory
data is then interpreted by our brains, and our resulting perception depends on our culture, upbringing, language, tradition, etc.
Everyone in the world shares the same basic assemblage point location. It shifts slightly depending on the current modality, but right now it's common location is approximately 2 feet behind the right shoulder blade. A number of things
can force it to shift (drugs, ritual, meditation, conscious intention) to a new location -which results in a new perception, but it always/usually goes back to it's original location. Dreaming is actually the result of the assemblage point moving to the left side of our personal energy fields during the night while we sleep, and the reason our dreams are so chaotic and random all the time is because its always moving around. In order to perceive something coherently our Ap's must be stabilized on one spot. So
what happened to your friend? The Rift forced his assemblage point to move. His entire idea of reality was turned on it's head
in a single moment. I think his brain has probably rewired itself a little bit. It's a good thing. I bet you he'll go back in the Rift again one day, and he'll never forget the moment his entire world changed. To all the non believers, the Rift really is that
good to make you believe you're in another place/space and it's a very very trippy feeling. I truly believe the Matrix
is just around the corner.




This is sort of my thinking as well. He crossed an awareness threshold. A motion toward a greater understanding.

It's difficult for most folks (+99.99%), having not invested the time to look or to understand something that threatens their ego. They won't look. The ego's might makes right, is the response you get from most folks (the ego is fearful of it's own demise so it derails thoughts in that area). There's 10,000+ years of human explorations into reality are in there, by millions of explorers (distilled by 10's of thousands of thinkers), and science has only about 200 years on it. Not much of a comparison no matter how the intellect of the short-sighted non searcher may see it. :)

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Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:20 pm
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Isolasjon wrote:
The symptoms you are describing might be depersonalization (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization)

It could also be Derealization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization


Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:23 pm
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Power just came back on.

It went out about 2 seconds after I hit the send button on that post.

Sat dish comes on when the power returns....and the first words heard are '... and your heart and soul - are what I came for'.

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Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:22 pm
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I think your friend had a profound mind altering experience. Please keep us updated on your friend. I'd like to know how he describes the experience a week after it happened, or whenever the negative effects wear off, and he is able to integrate the experience.


Last edited by Jose on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:41 pm
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What he is describing sounds awfully similar to Depersonalization (DPDR).
It's when your physical body and your mind detach from one another, and you're left with a numbing/mind-altering feeling like you're experiencing an out of body phenomena. I've had DPDR for 4 years, so I can personally attest to this. It sounds like he was predisposed already to developing DPDR, but the Rift triggered it. And it's loving scary because there are so many people who aren't aware of this condition and the Rift does pose a problem. The reason the Rift is capable of inducing such a feeling is because, Virtual reality lowers sense of presence in reality. Especially prolonged exposure to VR.
Normally DPDR symptoms can last for days, but for people like me, I've had it for years. So it's hard to say, but it definitely sounds like he detached after using the Rift. But yeah, bottom line is different people have differerent degree's of sensitivity towards stuff like this. Most people will put on the Rift and be fine, but unfortunately, it does seem like the Rift does pose a potential problem for DPDR and it's quite scary especially for people who haven't experienced it. I guess I can only say that if he is indeed experiencing DPDR, then I hope his symptoms fade away soon, otherwise it becomes a difficult problem to manage.


Last edited by MatrixGravity on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:19 am, edited 3 times in total.



Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:09 pm
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cerulianbaloo wrote:
I found something quite interesting when researching depersonalization as it applies to my own situation. The wiki page led me to a similar disorder, derealization. It defines it as "Derealization (sometimes abbreviated as DR) is an alteration in the perception or experience of the external world so that it seems unreal. Other symptoms include feeling as though one's environment is lacking in spontaneity, emotional coloring and depth.[1] It is a dissociative symptom of many conditions, such as psychiatric and neurological disorders, and not a standalone disorder."

Now here's the really interesting part that caught my eye, and especially seems applicable to the Rift,

Quote:
Derealization can also manifest as an indirect result of certain vestibular disorders such as labyrinthitis and vestibular neuronitis. This is thought to result from the experience of anxiety precipitated by the functional disparity that arises between the ability to reconcile external stimuli relative to motion and equilibrioception that are compromised by vestibular dysfunction with the internal perceptions and expectations regarding the physical environment. An alternative explanation holds that a possible effect of vestibular dysfunction includes responses in the form of the modulation of noradrenergic and serotonergic activity due to a misattribution of vestibular symptoms to the presence of imminent physical danger resulting in the experience of anxiety or panic, which subsequently generate feelings of derealization.


What I get from all that aside from some medical speak I don't fully understand, is if you've already got some form of serotonin related imbalance as those with depression and other mental disorders tend to, things which mess with your vestibular response mechanisms may affect them in a more pronounced way than normal folk, and can potentially trigger depersonalization/derealization related symptoms. Now is this to say that prolonged use of the Rift could actually manifest in vestibular disorders? Hard to say, I sure hope not. I'm not sure if any of this will be of help to your friend, but if comes down to seeing a doctor he may want to mention some of this to them as possible causes.


Good find. Between the description of the guy's experience, and the fact that the Rift inherently causes a discrepancy between what you see and what your vestibular system senses makes it seem like the experience triggered derealization by the method you cited.


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@ Isolasjon & MatrixGravity

Insightful first posts! Thanks, and welcome to the forums :)


Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:34 pm
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Fascinating, indeed. I had thought we were at least a hardware generation or two from VR triggering this sort of thing; I lament jis's friend's condition, but in some sense it is a sign Oculus is on the right track, and perhaps the Rift will finally spur the research and treatment options such disorders have long deserved.

The nexus of spirituality, psychopathology, mysticism, faith? What is it to have a "mind", to be "human", to experience "reality", condensed into a featherweight package you can wear on your face? Those unfortunate few who suffer edge case reactions to the Rift experience are not to be envied, but they may have much to teach us about what life and humanity truly are. I hope they will not find scrutiny abrasive, because their unique minds may conceal secrets that have eluded us since monkeys first pondered the stars.

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Last edited by nateight on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:42 pm
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Relevant:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20712501

Quote:
Abstract
This study utilizes an innovative experimental paradigm to investigate the effects of virtual reality (VR) on dissociative experience and the sense of presence. A nonclinical sample of 30 people were administered measures of dissociation, sense of presence, and immersion before and after an immersion in a virtual environment. Results indicate an increase in dissociative experience (depersonalization and derealization), including a lessened sense of presence in objective reality as the result of exposure to VR. Higher preexisting levels of dissociation and a tendency to become more easily absorbed or immersed were associated with higher increases in dissociative symptoms resulting from VR immersion. Results are discussed in terms of imaginative processes underlying the dissociative experience and potential implications to the treatment of anxiety disorders with VR.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:43 pm
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MSat wrote:
@ Isolasjon & MatrixGravity

Insightful first posts! Thanks, and welcome to the forums :)


Absolutely. Glad to help. As soon as I read this thread I felt an immediate sense of obligation to help because it's definitely something I have first-hand experience with, and the symptoms the OP explained are definitely undeniable to me. My main concern is, once the Oculus Rift, and VR in general start becoming more prevalent, and the public gets their hands on it, what if more and more cases of DPDR start to happen? I can't help but worry because, a lot of people are susceptible to things like this, and I'm afraid this is going to turn into a problem in the future.

MOST of the time, DPDR is induced from Marijuana. Most cases are, at least. But VR is definitely in a league of it's own, but what they all have in common is the psychological component. They all alter your state of mind and thus, Depersonalization is born as a result. I'm just afraid this is going to become a widespread problem later on once VR goes viral, and it upsets me because there aren't many effective treatments available right now to treat this condition. The most important thing is for more people to be aware, that's what I hope to help with.


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Maybe the senses it gave him overwhelmed him. It is possible i mean technically speaking it seems for most people it feels like you are "teleporting" into another world. Maybe he just wasnt able to handle that. Maybe it just freaked him out. Who knows. My guess however is he may want to look into that. that seems to be a adverse reaction maybe theres deeper issues there he has and somehow the Rift just triggered it.

Or maybe it was just one of those things like my grandmother cant handle anesthetic when she gets it and all it makes her really sick and it takes her forever to "snap out of it"

but yes i imagine this actually isnt that far off maybe for some people. I mean think about it. when you are used to something your whole life your sense of reality and then all of the sudden you get "sucked" into another "reality" it may mess with some peoples minds thats for sure.

It may however simply be he tried it a bit too much at first. My suggestion for some people is when they first put it on. only use it for a very short time. enough to put it on. keep your head steady at first while you put it on and adjust it. then slowly look around and maybe do not even move in the world. just do that for a bit. and then come out.

it could just be he was in it for a bit longer then he could handle and it just screwed with his mind.

people react to diffrent things. diffrent stimili and all that so for a small portion of people i imagine the Rift could be very unnerving maybe to them its a bit too real to comprehend or something like that.

best you can do is just apologize to your friend. Maybe gently suggest maybe you just used it for too long maybe try it again but just for like a very short time without moving much. or if not.....if he really feels that way. then suggest to him well maybe Virtual reality isnt for him.

I know one thing I HATE the 4D stuff you know the things like at disney world or what where you have 3d plus you feel something there? I HATE that....that creeps me out even if it is one of those kids one.. so maybe for him virtual reality was just a bit too much.

you should maybe post that on the Oculus Dev forums or maybe even send oculus an email about that that is a very interesting feedback and they and people should take that into consideration.

maybe he just had a massive mindf*ck

Hopefully only a very small few people would have reactions like that.....

Sorry to hear that happend. Maybe virtual reality isnt for him.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:46 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:23 am
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It does sound like he's experiencing symptoms of depersonalization and derealization. These have popped up as topics in some research i've read on VR. A quick search on google scholar and I found this abstract for example:


This study utilizes an innovative experimental paradigm to investigate the effects of virtual reality (VR) on dissociative experience and the sense of presence. A nonclinical sample of 30 people were administered measures of dissociation, sense of presence, and immersion before and after an immersion in a virtual environment. Results indicate an increase in dissociative experience (depersonalization and derealization), including a lessened sense of presence in objective reality as the result of exposure to VR. Higher preexisting levels of dissociation and a tendency to become more easily absorbed or immersed were associated with higher increases in dissociative symptoms resulting from VR immersion. Results are discussed in terms of imaginative processes underlying the dissociative experience and potential implications to the treatment of anxiety disorders with VR.

(http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10 ... .2009.0164)


I have experienced similar effects several times after strong out of body experiences that mess with your body schema/map in similar ways. From my experience, the best advice is that your friend should do any gentle exercises that focus on 'finding your centre' in order to 'recalibrate' his vestibular system/body schema - Anything from taichi, yoga, slow balancing exercises etc. From my experience, being too inactive following such an episode can cause the sensation to last much longer.

The good thing is that modern researchers are starting to look seriously at these type of VR induced phenomenon. Until recently, we had to rely too much on flawed models such as concepts of the shamanistic/astral body. This is not to discredit the depth to which these systems of thought have explored the area, it's just that the relative reliability of the scientific method should be welcomed.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:30 pm
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Cross Eyed!
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That's interesting about "finding your center" to counteract some of the DPDR effects.

I wonder if that's one of the reasons Palmer is always barefoot, since it's probably easier to find one's center if one's feet is connected firmly to the ground. It's much easier to find balance and stay connected to the real-reality with no shoes. I don't know, it makes sense in my head.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:44 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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Thank you all for your posts. I don't have time this morning to answer them, maybe later in the day. My friend feared to be alone with his issue, so I think I will directly redirect him this thread for him to digest.
Anyway, I'll keep you in touch of any changes in the future.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:46 am
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Let me preface this by saying that I read the original post only, and not the responses. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth while I had a quick minute.

I experienced an aspect of what he may have experienced but it was in no way disturbing, just surprising. In my case I have no issues with using the Rift, even for extended periods of time, other than my IPD is around 75mm which introduces some blurriness.

After the first few hours of using the Rift I went to have a shower (it was evening) and as I often do I let my mind drift, trying to analyse different aspects of the experience, why some things felt a bit strange, etc and as part of this I started to apply the same criteria to the real world. In doing so I noticed that some of the things I thought were wrong in the Rift, are actually similarly wrong in the real world.

After further consideration I came to the conclusion that it's not that we're actually in the Matrix (or Permutation City if you've read the novel), but that being in VR can change the way you look at the real world. You're more likely to notice the mechanics of your vision and the tricks that the human brain applies.

I found it much more interesting than unsettling myself. This is just my take on my personal experience. I hope your friend overcomes his problem and perhaps tries again in the future when the technology has advanced further.


Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:19 am
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!
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Tour friend should seek professional help, it's not a sign of good mental health reacting this way because of a simple game or movie.

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Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:30 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:08 pm
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I've been working with a Depersonalization specialist for the last few months, and here is some advice directly from her blog. Hopefully this will give your friend some peace of mind.


There are many triggers connected with depersonalization, such as prolonged stress, health worries, fears, continuous work or relationship woes, smoking marijuana or other recreational drugs. Regardless of the trigger, the process toward recovery is the same. It is simple yet very specific. It does not include medication because one is not ill. Repeat, this is not an illness and should not be treated as one.

The logic behind the symptoms is proof alone that this is nowhere near and illness, although the symptoms can often be quite daunting. Yet, each and every one of them has a logical explanation and can be simply reversed. It is when the individual becomes so fearful about the reaction that anxiety is heightened and the cycle of fear>anxiety/depersonalization becomes part of the picture. This is why the symptoms often linger.

One must keep in mind that the symptoms will linger as long as fear is involved. This is where logic saves the day. A tired, fatigued mind is what is the primary concern. Through learning to “retrain the brain” by using the process of thinking in a more productive fashion and using diet/nutrition (foods to boost serotonin naturally), one has covered both sides of recovery treatment. The depersonalization dissolves and the anxiety associated with it is neutralized. One is also protected against recurrence of this disorder because they are well informed of the triggers.


Therefore, the logic is as follows:


1. Depersonalization is not an illness.

2. Depersonalization is the product of a fatigued mind, due to constant, fearful worry.

3. Depersonalization can be triggered by:

Stress
Worries
Fearful Thinking
Marijuana and Recreational Drug Use
Prolonged Health Concerns
(Virtual Reality in this case)

4. Every single symptom is logical and can be reversed.

There is a distinct personality that seems to lend itself to these reactions:

Highly intelligent individual
Analytical individual (deep thinkers)
Creative Individual (artists, musicians, writers, deep thinkers)
Sensitive Individuals (caring, loving, people pleasers)

Summary

It does not matter what the trigger or how long one has struggled with feelings of depersonalization. Once the logic behind the reactions is understood and the proper process of approach is taken, the sensations simply dissolve.

This is not and never has been an illness. It does not involve a long, drawn out period of time to overcome, when approached from the proper perspective.

Through learning to think differently (retrain the brain) and use foods to work for you rather than against you, the recovery process is short and to the point. All that is required is a willingness to follow our suggestions and move through the specific process.


Last edited by MatrixGravity on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:23 am, edited 2 times in total.



Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:21 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:08 pm
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Sorry double post.


Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:21 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:42 pm
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Something like the Avatar effect?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lanet.html


Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:34 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:36 am
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I am at work and haven't had time to read everything in this thread so i am replying directly to the original post.

My Rift hasn't arrived yet for the record.

I experience what you describe your friend feeling on a less extreme level when I have periods of depression. The best way I have described it is feeling like my body is inside a bubble acting out my life while my real consciousnesses watches from outside the bubble from a third person.

I would be interested to know if your friend has any history of depression or similar feelings before using the Rift, because it would seem highly possible that if my mind works this way anyway, using VR could cause some negative responses.


Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:35 am
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