Portable 3D

[SebastianJu]

Hello,

i have a notebook and would like to use 3D gaming and watching movies in 3D. So im asking myself whats the best way to do this nowadays. I mean a monitor wouldnt be good because its hard to transport. I like the notebook because i can transport it easily. So what kind of device would be best here? Probably some kind of 3D-beamer right?

What would you suggest that is good for games and movies and still portable plus have a good 3D in games?

Thanks!
Sebastian

[cybereality]

I would recommend getting the Optoma GT750. Thats the projector I have, its very good. It even comes included with a backpack special made to hold the projector. Plus, its one of the few projectors that supports side-by-side (SBS) format, so it will work well with any laptop. It also supports HDMI 1.4a, but only a few special laptops will support this full quality mode (mainly the ones that are already 3D).

The other alternative is to get an HMD, that is pretty portable (more so than the projector). I would recommend the ST1080, however they don't seem to be available anymore. The Sony HMZ looks nice, but its not very portable, and the portable options (like Vuzix Wrap 1200) are not very good.

[SebastianJu]

Sounds surprisingly not very expensive. I feared the opposite. So when chosing the first option, what is needed on top to make it run with games and videos? Eyeglasses? Silversurface? What about 3d-Drivers?

I presume they work with polarized light right?

[cybereality]

Well the GT750 is a DLP projector, so it works with DLP-Link 3D glasses (active). You don't need a special screen, I am projecting on a white wall.

You do need a 3D capable laptop, though, and most laptops won't work. If you want to go with Nvidia you should probably get a 3D laptop, as these are most likely to work. I even bought a (non-3D) laptop that was one Nvidia's support list, and it didn't even work. So watch out. Try to look for reviews or search here to see if anyone has used that particular laptop model.

You will probably have better luck (and a happier wallet) going with an AMD laptop, as more of them should be able to output in 3D. But, again, you want to search for specific model numbers to make sure they are supported. If you go with AMD, then you can use the DDD driver for gaming.

Hope that helps.

[SebastianJu]

Hm... the 3D needs shutterglasses? I doubt i would be happy with this. I already owned the elsa revelator and shutterglasses a couple years later that should work with tft-displays but i wasnt pleased with this. The image is darker and overall it wasnt near the feeling in cinema watching 3D. And i think i would have to spend 70Euro for each person that wants to watch. Another cost-factor.

I would prefer to use the same glasses one uses in cinema. You get them for one euro and they are without technique. Only the glass is changed to let in only certain light. So that each eye gets different polarized light so that a 3d image is forming in the brain. Of course it would need 2 projectors but i thought that its nowadays implemented into one.

Or did the things develop so far that i would be pleased even with shutterglasses?

What do you mean with 3d laptop? I mean most of the graphic cards nowadays can handle 3D and splitting a image from a game into 2 different images was done some years ago through directx or similar things. So the shutter glasses got a different image when one eye was shut black.
So what do you mean with 3D? The tft-display? That wouldnt be needed when the dlp can handle it. I mean the normal notebook could remain 2D when watching movies and gaming with the beamer is 3D.

But i wonder anyway if shutterglasses are the real thing nowadays.

[cybereality]

The DLP-Link glasses made today are a lot better than the ELSA Revelators. Not to mention that the ELSA were only meant to work on CRTs and if you used them on an LCD you weren't getting the best experience (provided they even worked). The glasses are pretty cheap, around $30-40 or less if you buy in bulk.

To get a passive experience at home, you would probably need to get 2 projectors, polarizing sheets, an expensive silver screen, the 3D glasses, and a rack to mount it all on. You are not going to be saving any money doing this (unless you expect to have large crowds over 15-20 people at a time). Plus its a hassle to deal with, and transport. And the quality might even suffer (more ghosting).

When I say "3D" laptop I mean a laptop with a 3D screen on it. These are the ones that most likely have an HDMI port that supports HDMI 1.4a and can be used for full quality output to a 3D HDTV or projector. Pretty much any laptop can support side-by-side (SBS) where both eye images are squished into one screen. The GT750 supports this mode, so that will work fine. Its just not the best quality. So you preferably want to find a laptop that can output HDMI 1.4a 3D, most laptops do not.

[SebastianJu]

When i would have a 3D-Notebook where the screen itself can show 3D i doubt i would buy a beamer on top. Because the only advantage would be the bigger screen then. And having that for several hundreds bucks more?

Yesterday i have read about Tru3d and a similar device from walts. (http://hdguru.com/tru3d-active-to-passi ... view/5926/) These devices should turn a normal dlp with shutter 3d into passive 3d because the device is polarizing the light. And as far as i read these things didnt work bad. Only thing is... they seem to not be sold anymore. So is this dead? And was it worth the effort?

Anyway... at the moment i still only have an old aspire 7720g that i upgraded some time ago to a geforce 9600m gt. Its pretty old now and it has a connector like the left image here: http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=de ... ,s:0,i:130
So im not sure if it would work with that notebook anyway.

So i think only SBS would work. But what i dont understand is, that it sounds like its splitting the resolution. And i wonder why that is needed. Even the older 3d-revelator were able to render 2 different images with full resolution. Only the refreshrate was halved. So i dont see why its needed to press both images into one image and lose resolution because of that. Cant the dlp handle the higher, needed refreshrate?
And what about the light? Is the image darker with the shutter? It should be i think because all the previous shutter glasses i had had this effect.

If i really have to buy a newer notebook first it looks like i have to wait first until i have some more spare money.

[cybereality]

Using SBS is a way to encode the image on the source device (ie PC) so that the display (projector) know which view goes to which eye. It also has the effect of keeping the bandwidth the same as a normal 2D image, so it works with the existing infrastructure without needs for upgrades (for example with cable TV). The projector itself can usually handle a full resolution image, for example 720 @ 120Hz, but this needs to be encoded so it can understand which eye is left and which is right.

HDMI 1.4a is the modern standard, and allow you do to 720P @ 60Hz or 1080P @ 24Hz. This is a full resolution, full quality image. However not every device supports this new standard. So for older or non-compatible devices you need to use SBS. This degrades the quality somewhat, but it will at least work.

[cybereality]

Using SBS is a way to encode the image on the source device (ie PC) so that the display (projector) knows which view goes to which eye. It also has the effect of keeping the bandwidth the same as a normal 2D image, so it works with the existing infrastructure without needs for upgrades (for example with cable TV). The projector itself can usually handle a full resolution image, for example 720P @ 120Hz, but this needs to be encoded so it can understand which eye is left and which is right.

HDMI 1.4a is the modern standard, and allow you do to 720P @ 60Hz or 1080P @ 24Hz. This is a full resolution, full quality image. However not every device supports this new standard. So for older or non-compatible devices you need to use SBS. This degrades the quality somewhat, but it will at least work.

[SebastianJu]

I decided to give the optoma gt750 a try. I found the best offer was the one at amazon for 615Euro. I found 2 offers for used beamers at ebay. One auction starting at 400euro was closed short before the end because the seller probably didnt get enough. Another seller had one in for 500Euro and got no offers at all. So i mailed him and asked to get it for 400Euro. He suggested 450 and i said yes. I think its a fair price. He means he used it only 55hours and the bill from april will be sent too. I dont know if its true but i think its a good buy anyway i think. And he said he sold it because he dont like to construct it again and again because he has no static place for it and he wants a big tv instead.
I thought that maybe after christmas there were more offers but there arent it seems. So it was the right decision to ask.

The buy only has one glasses included. And now im asking myself what other glasses i buy. At least a second should be there. So now i wonder if i should buy the zd201 only again, because i read the glass is a bit small or if i should buy something from vidimensio or sainsonic. They are cheaper and seems to have more glass (wider view). Is there: http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1 ... Asainsonic
or there http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0 ... vidimensio
a nice offer that works similar than zd201 and is cheaper than it?

Thanks!
Sebastian

[cybereality]

If you search for "DLP-Link" glasses on ebay you will find deals. I got some decent ones for around $40 USD.

These are the ones that I like:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Generation- ... 2a15e3b067

[SebastianJu]

Do you mean that dlp-link-glasses nearly all deliver a good enough result? Or do you only have experience with that special product?

[SebastianJu]

And what about the Hz? I found an offer to buy 4 x Sainsonic 120Hz for 73€ and an offer to buy 3 x Sainsonic 144Hz for 80€. Is the higher Frequency worth the higher price? Or doesnt that matter?
Thats the 2 offers i mean (The first offer isnt the most beautiful looking one too but one glasses more for a lower price?):
http://www.ebay.de/itm/4-x-SainSonic-12 ... 27ce294500
http://www.ebay.de/itm/3-SainSonic-144H ... 27ce290164

[cybereality]

I've tried 2 different DLP-Link glasses. The ones I linked to and also the ones that look like bootleg Nvidia glasses. The fake Nvidia ones are a little dark, and the lenses are not as big. To be honest, any of them are probably OK, but obviously some are better than others.

Don't worry about the Hz. They are all going to refresh the same as the projector at 120Hz (at least w. the GT750).

[SebastianJu]

When i will buy a new notebook with a better gpu i wonder what gpu to use. I mean hdmi 1.4 but the gt750 has 2 hdmi-input devices. So does this mean i should buy a notebook that has 2 ore more gpus connected through sli or crossfire to get the most out of it or are there gpus that has 2 hdmi-channels as output that can get the maximum out of the gt750?

[cybereality]

You can't use double HDMI ports for any benefit. One HDMI cord is enough to take full advantage of the GT750 (meaning 720P @ 60Hz 3D or 120Hz 2D). If you get a new laptop just make sure it can support HDMI 1.4a 3D. Many laptops do not.

[SebastianJu]

And for what are the 2 x hdmi inputs meant for? I mean 2 machines putting in their signals often would be so seldom probably that it would be easier to switch the cabels for that times. So i dont see why it has 2 inputs?

[cybereality]

It has two inputs so you could use 2 different devices. For example to plug in an Xbox360 and a PS3 at the same time.

[SebastianJu]

I now got my optoma. I like the big screen even though i have to wait for a newer gpu to use 3D. The glasses seems to work too as far as i can see it now. They are shuttering.

What i wondering is if there are all cables included like it should. At least the glasses should have a usb-cable that isnt there. I have to ask the seller about this. Was this a simple usb-cable? If so i probably can use the cable i use for my htc-smartphone. Its only to load the battery in the glasses right? On the other hand im wondering. The battery is a cr2032 and i dont think that battery can be recharged. At least i read that this is dangerous. Am i wrong or is this a special battery (not a lithium-ion)?

Then the manual for the optoma shows a vga-cable and a vga/RCA adapter included. On the other hand it doesnt mention the glasses to be included. So im wondering if the cable/adapter was included or not. Can you tell?

Now i only have to work until i have the needed money to buy the new hardware to use the 3d-mode... But till that the beamer in 2D is nice enough too. Thanks for the tip...

[cybereality]

Well I don't remember the unit coming with any cables. Maybe just a VGA cable and a adapter or something. I do remember having to get an HDMI cable myself.

Most of the Chinese DLP-Link glasses use USB to charge, and come with the cable. Which ones did you get?

[SebastianJu]

I did get an optoma gt750 xl which includes one pair of zd201 glasses. The beamer had only the powercable, glasses and remote included but i now wrote the seller. He found and will send me: vga-cable and adapter, a "klinken"-cable and an rs cable. And the usb-cable for the glasses. So i will get more than i missed. Probably so many cables were included from the start without mentioning in the manual.

Im pleased so far with the beamer. Its real nice cinemafeeling. The only stop is the size of my wall but its still 3 or 4 meters wide...

What i wondered is... there is a small gap in focus at bottom and at top. When i make it very sharp at the top its not fully sharp at the bottom and vice versa. So i have to chose a middleway. But i wonder where this comes from. Its not coming from that the beamer isnt fully horizontal. I tried everything and it seems its coming this way out of the beamer. I wonder if i can do something about.

What i wonder too is the resolution. When i put on my notebook the resolution of my notebook is instantly and automatically changed to 1280x1024px. Thats what the beamer shows too. Why is the manual showing a maximum HD resolution of 1920x 1080px? The native resolution is 1280x1024px i believe which is around hd-ready at 1280x720px. Are higher resolutions possible like HDTV 1920x1080px how stated in the manual? And if so will they be calculated down to match the native calculation?

I still have no clue why the other notebook with a gt230m doesnt work even with lower resolutions. The win7 recognizes the beamer but the beamer doesnt get a signal. I wonder why that is. Strangely its the same with linux mint. So 2 different OS with cables that work with monitors and cables that recognize the beamer but the beamer doesnt get a signal? I dont know why that is. But at least the other notebook works and we watched some nice films with cinemafeeling... I only hope that once, when i have a 3d-able notebook, that notebook will work then with the beamer too.

If the mini-usb-cable to load the battery in the zd201 really is to load the battery and the battery is a CR2032 (that normall is a lithium-ion) like the manual states i wonder how this works because i only read that lithium ion batteries cant be charged because they will explode.

Thanks!
Sebastian

[cybereality]

The native resolution is 1280x800, but you can set it to other resolutions and it will just scale it. I think the max is 1080P (1920x1080).

I also noticed that the focus isn't uniform across the whole display, but usually I can find a nice compromise so that most of the screen is in focus.

[SebastianJu]

You once wrote that 3D didnt work even though it should. I wonder if it maybe was the HDMI-Cable you used. I saw at amazon that it seems to be special hdmi-cables that can do 1.4a. Maybe im wrong and all cables are the same but if not maybe thats the reason you couldnt run 3D? Only a guess...