Not entirely true Neil, when you mention the dominant eye thing and aiming, it refers to your brains being able to filter the image your dominant eye receives and use that for the aiming and sort of suppressing the image coming from the other eye.

With ghosting this is not possible, your dominant eye will see a part of what should have been just for the other eye, something that is not present in real life and can be annoying. Sure one can get sort of used to it.. but it is totally another thing imho.


I am not sure why the IZ3D has color ghosting though. If I think about it, it should be possible to get it close to 0.. since you can rotate the subpixels of a pixel individually... hmmm.. Would be nice if a IZ3D engineer can explain it.. I'd be very interested to know what is keeping them from 0% ghosting.

(not saying it is bad or so, just wondering where it is coming from. Hey I'm a physicist, we are supposed to question everything )

Would that be possible Neil? A small interview with a IZ3D rep? Perhaps not front page since it is a bit technical....

Here is an iZ3D thread on the issue written by iZ3D.

http://iz3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6 ... t=ghosting

I think it will be helpful.

Regards,
Neil

FWIW, I have the Samsung HL-T6189S, and I am showing zero ghosting. I have tested in all lighting conditions, and am very impressed.

When I take a picture through the right lens with my 3.2Mb cameraphone I get this:

(CRT and shutterglasses)
There's a little more ghosting from the colored squares than the picture shows.

Here it is crosseyed 3D:

I took a picture on my polarized rig with my homemade stereocamera with polarizers attached to the cameras. I can do the same with the iz3d but need to fineadjust the driver for the monitor again due to "too much tinkering with drivers".



Format is side-by-side right image first so it can be viewed crosseyed. As far as i know you can't get any additional ghosting using that viewing method.

ps: The light from the projectors aren't as strong as it seems since the polarizer kills more of the lamp in the ceiling than with the already polarized light from the beamers. The light from this rig is more than enough to play in full daylight though.

edit rehosted by mtbs3d

cheers

Great, less ghosting than my CRT.

Yeah that's preatty good, but I think a DLP rig would have even less ghosting - but a more flickering.
I've got to say that the ghosting isn't noticeable in crosseyed mode, only if I look closely on one picture and try to find ghosting

I'd like to see a pic of the IZ3D next - just to see, how it does in comparision

The DLP rig switches at 120Hz, so virtually no flickering either.

Sorry I had to make myself clearer. The DLP projector I tested had 'only' 85hz, so there was minor flickering. The new DLP TV's are 120hz, where no flickering should be noticeable

It makes no sense to test the ghosting of a DLP, because it has none. Other setups (e.g. Polarized projection) seem to be pretty good, too.
But shutterglasses are great, because of their low price. They work great with old, cheap CRT's

Agrees. The biggest advantage with dual passive projection is that you have a tremendous amount of light to each eye compared to other solutions. Another advantage is that several people can watch at the same time. If the cost is motivated?.. Well, I won't change now.
Can't advice anybody to get such a rig until the "driversituation" changes a bit.
By the way. Have taken screenshots of the iz3d and ghosttest. Tried to tinker a bit but for some reason it looks quite a bit worse with the camera than in real life. It gives a hint on how the ghosting and color difference behaves on the iz3d though. I'll try to add screenshots from games later on. It's difficult to take pictures of the screen when motives are moving so i have to take screenshots, then play the shots in sview, photographing the screen from there and finally make the stereopictures. To tired right now but maybe tomorrow (later this day).



edit: host changed to mtbs3d

Cheers

I think all solutions show less ghosting in games because the colors are usually shades of gray, green or blue. Rarely is there pure colors and big contrasts.
I know there's no ghosting on some solutions, but it could still be interesting to see a ghost test pic, because You can compare the contrast, colors tinting if any, or just get an idea of what it looks like.

Hello to all, helle Freke1

great idea to post a testpicture to deremine ghosting - unfortunately Freke1's test picture has some disadvantages:
- there is no possibility to calibrate your monitor
- it's hard to compare the ghosting result with the scale since it is placed away from the test sqare
- IMO the ghosting scale is not correct - it shoulg go from 0% ghosting to 100% ghosting - where 0 = no ghosting at all - 100% is full ghosting (same as you would not wear any glasses)

I made a new ghosting test picture where these disadvantages are not present
- First load the picture and calibrate your monitor so all grey scales are visible (change brightness and contrast if necessary)
- then loock at the test picture viewing it once with your left and then with your right eye - you will detct a white ghosting (white seems to be dominant at ghosting) as well as maybe also a black ghosting - so you'll get 4 results
-- left eye white ghosting (LW)
-- left eye black ghosting (LB)
-- right eye white ghosting (RW)
-- right eye black ghosting (RB)

the lower part of the test picture shows the same test only black/white reversed - the results campared to the upper test should be identical

you may download my test picture from:
http://www.3d-hdv.net/forum/ghosting_te ... wbloos.jpg

here are the results for my preproduction Zalman 22" monitor (I'll post the results of the newer model later) using my testpicture
LW: 10%, LB: 0%, RW: 10%, RB: 0%

greetings
Werner

Great job
here's my result with CRT and shutterglasses:



(camera shooting through right lens of shooterglasses )
have You not switched left and right though?
The darkish ghosting is 40% on the dark scale.
The whiteish ghosting is 10% on the white scale.

oh correct - my testpicture is side-ba-side parallel - so left is on the left side

greetings
Werner

ok I changed the test picture a little bit: added a 'L' and 'R' on left and right view and saved it as P and X versions:

http://www.3d-hdv.net/forum/ghosting_te ... loos_P.jpg (parallel view version)

http://www.3d-hdv.net/forum/ghosting_te ... loos_X.jpg (cross viewversion)

greetings
Werner

PS: I deleted the old test picture on the server!

Hi pixel... I wan't to challange you on this old statement.

1) What glasses did you use? The cristalis3?

Could you test some other glasses? I want to know, if these things are valid for today, too.
http://www.cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2002-09.pdf

Maybe you could test the cheapest glasses you can find. They could be used for other users as second choice in emergencies

i cannot download werners test picture
Can somebody send me?

Even the 3d-hdv.net doesnt work now..
I like to hear more ghosting test of different polarizer filters (linear, circular)
who has dual projector setup with silverscreen, please share the experiences.
what about cheap, plastic filters? is it worth the money?
(for eg. from http://www.polarization.com/polarshop/p ... ucts_id=34
or from ultimate3dheaven.com the circular one) anyone have this?

thx!

alternate link
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7166/g ... 1050wb.jpg

thanks!

great test, I did try it on my zalman trimon 22"
I'd say:
white square = 25%
black square = 0% (with very little ghosting inside the black square)
I also tryed with realD glasses but it's difficult to say as the ghosting parts turn to purple
so...
white square = 35/40%
black = 45/50% inside the square
if I turn the reald glasses some degrees, then it get the same results as the zalman glasses

I put away my sparfilters for a while for testing how normal high quality polarizers from polarization.com performs with my lcd-projectors. I miss the high lumen of course but ghosting rejection so far is just as good as with the spars! Still 15% white, 0% black ghosting with Freke's image and 10% white, 0% black with WBloos image. I've been gaming for four hours with these filters and nothing have happened yet (burnout). I get back in the dual passive projection thread wether or not these filters are suitable or not.

edit: Fixed mixing of colored ghosts.

That clearly shows the main issue with iz3d ghosting is color tinting. It's much worse for the left eye and is very distracting when coupled with ghosting. Waiting for new glasses before retesting .

Hey i just discovered Werner's black&white ghosting test.
It's excellent : much easier to use than the previous ghosting test I used.

On my Zalman 22" i get 40% white ghosting, and almost 0% black but there is a very very slight darkening the scale isn't fine enough to measure so i'd say aprox 1% black ghosting.

"On my Zalman 22" i get 40% white ghosting, "

How do you test it on Zalman?
Load the picture to stereo photo maker and hit F4 full screen?
is it side by side in parallel format?

yes it's that easy.
Don't care about side by side or crosseyed, there ar L and R markers to tell which eye it corresponds to, ust press the swap eyes key if it's reversed (default key : X )

Just discovered this thread:

My planar like setup using 2 hyundai W240V2 + industrial Saint Gobain antelio as a transparent miror, glasses used: cliped from u3dheaven, without calibration, I get:
My white ghosting is invisible.
black ghosting is between 5 and 10%.

Nice! Finally some datas for a planar rig. I say that's a pretty good result!

if anyone cares, here are my depressing results using iz3d gordons and new algo

Just tried this with my samsung plasma and elsa shutters. The ghosting is really bad though i cant get a % because the bars? What causes this? The glasses?