So who here uses linux then? I use a cheap e-dim dongle and shutterglasses on both windows and linux, but it seems to me that nobody knows/cares that it is in fact possible to do stereo on linux without spending $$$ on a quadro card. If I am wrong, and there are in fact some more linux heads here who are interested then maybe I will write a guide to doing stereo the e-dim/X3D/H3D/X-force way.

So far I have a handful of games working, together with stereoscopic movie playback. I am also working on a native app to replace the E-D activator and set appropriate resolutions/refresh rates, together with managing library preloads for quadbuffer emulation / opengl frustum manipulations. I have already reverse-engineered the colour-line codes used to set modes on these dongles so I can turn on/off the glasses and set interleaving an sync doubling on and off, and have software (written by someone else) to manipulate the necessary opengl calls.

This will make it possible to game in S3D without going through all the long-winded steps in my previous method. In fact, I have already greatly improved this method by moving to using double-height over/under and sync doubling, thereby eliminating the need for running a software page flipping app as root, and allowing any combination of 3d and 2d on multiple monitors.

None of this matters, however, if no-one cares about building a S3D community around linux and open source, so if you are interested then please let yourself be known by taking part in the poll.

P.S. Mods feel free to move this to DIY if you think that is a more appropriate forum

I have a linux partition on my computer but it's mainly to test new linux stuff and see improvements every once in a while.
Although Wine improved significantly, most of the games I play do not run well on linux so I spend 99.9% of my time running Windows XP.

I have no reason to use linux and consider it a "fascination" rather than something actually useful

I mean no offence by saying this but only a uneducated person would say that, your internet traffic is being routed through alot of Linux machines right now, hell your own router probably runs Linux! (What is the router you own?) Not to forget how many web servers run Linux, etc. Right, you are now educated, don't ever say Linux isn't usefull again

Linux is the most usefull operating system in the world, at least for anyone other than a gamer.

Personally, right now I have Backtrack 4 Pre-release installed on my other partition but have never used S3D in Linux yet as gaming sucks on Linux. (Heres hoping Cedega/Wine Team get everything written perfectly eventually, they've made huge progress over the years)

I misspoke somewhat. I meant linux was not useful for me. in general I'm sure there are uses otherwise it wouldn't still be around

Sorry, I may have mis-understood what you ment in your original post yuiry. Again I meant no offence, just trying to educate people on how important Linux is in this world.

To me Linux's main role is for servers and other mission-criticle stuff because it is rock solid and reliable.
But either way, this poll is silly, the only use for Stereo 3D on Linux is for Media Centre's as Gaming is almost non-existant on Linux. Although that said, Linux is the ONLY way to play Doom 3 in Stereo 3D at present!!!

I also love the way that Linux doesn't have to reboot every time it installs updates unlike Windows.

I just had an automatic update on windows XP today and didn't have to reboot, amazing ! (it was an exception, a microsoft update that does not need to change somthing in windows Xp kernel or driver system)

The kernel only usually gets updated in the Service Packs! And a Kernel update is the only reason a Operating System should need to be rebooted. Right now i've got this machine wanting to reboot for the KB973768 security update, but none the less its not a Kernal update so why does it need to reboot, why can't it just stop the service using what ever files using what ever it is, install the update, then restart the service. *Or let me guess a half second of the uPnP service being stoped would cause more inconvience to the user than a reboot.* (Just a example on this last statement)

I don't allow my windows to update for obvious reasons (I don't live in the US and as such do not respect your copyrights very much). I have xp x64 sp2 and it has been running smoothly for many years now. All you need to update is your firewall and antivirus.

I would love to try stereo under Linux (and assume at some point that I will).

I really only use Windows (when I do use it) for gaming/simulation, and even then for only a few sims. rFactor, Richard Burns Rally, Call of Duty. If it's really important, I use Linux.

Do use Linux for much of my surfing and for all most all email. And as time marches on, I expect to use Linux increasingly more for almost everything except gaming/simming (and game/sim specific browsing).

I view Windows, these days, as a game/sim specific OS. Only.

Linux for anything otherwise important...and certainly for anything as important as putting food on the table. Honestly, I really couldn't sleep nights if I knew I had to rely/depend on Windows "showing up" the next morning (or not) just so I could pay my bills.

If I had to depend on Windows, I'd get no sleep at all....


k

I have to say I am Windows all the way, running Vista on both my machines and develop with Microsoft Visual C++. I think Linux is cool and I wouldn't use anything else for my web development server needs. However I am a PC gamer and there is no question that PC gaming is on the Windows platform. OpenGL is also great, but 95% of all major games use DirectX exclusively aside from iD software and some small dev houses. So I can't really see much use in using Linux aside from the 1337-factor. There is way more software for windows, way more games, way more compatibility with hardware peripherals, way more support in general. Yeah Linux is free, but I don't mind paying $200 for an OS I could use for years.

That said, I would like to experiment with Linux a bit more. I did run it once (briefly) but I found it too much of a hassle for my needs. However it is totally cool that you are messing with stereo 3d on Linux and you should definitely post your solutions so others can get this working too.


Not true. Doom 3 works fine with the VR920 driver in both XP and Vista. And also with a really old Nvidia XP driver if you wanted.

Also: Why no options for OS X? Hahahahah!!!!

Could you elaborate on that?

I don't use Linux, but the only thing that held me back is that so far I didn't know it was possible to play games in stereoscopy with it. A guide to do that would be very useful.

Devilmaster: Tell me what your hardware setup is and i will gladly try to help. Should be able to get at least anaglph, shutters and dual passive working. Particularly, let me know what screen res you plan to use and i will write you appropriate config files.

Doom3 with all the old-school nvidiadrivers (91.31 to 162.50 if you're able to run it) with winxp and a 7900gt works. There are some anomalies but acceptable. It works at least using anaglyph, shutters and dual projection. For some reason NeurOk (iz3d) will not work.

Ok, I didn't realise that the old drivers supported OpenGL. It makes no sense, why did nVidia remove it? And why don't that add the support back as the support is written in the new XP drivers (For Professional Use)

I believe iz3D is working on getting us decent OpenGL support as well now?

mickeyjaw: Does the Stereo work on the desktop seasion? Or do you not use the desktop special effects (Cube, etc)

I response to UndeadD3vi1, I haven't tried preloading vrizer into compiz (the sw which does the desktop cube thingy amongst others) yet, but i wouldn't think it would work. I will try at some point and will report back though.

There exists an anaglyph plugin for compiz to get a 3d desktop , but i checked the source and it doesn't draw 2 separate views and composite them. Instead, it draws the normal 2d desktop and then adds coloured fringes based on the z-depth so it would probably be a bitch to rewrite for above/below or interlace or whatever.

The other compiz plugin worth looking at is the wiimote head tracking plugin. This can already calculate and display what the view would be from any given viewing position/angle/distance, and stacks the windows depth wise. All that needs to be done is a patch to draw a second, slightly offset view. I would just like to point out that this will, of course result in a 3d desktop cube, but not the apps within it to become S3d. The windows themselves would be flat objects positioned in a 3d space. The developers of the wiimote plugin have already expressed an interest in adding anaglyph support at some point when they have time, at which point i will try and see what can be done about different viewing methods.


Meanwhile, my research has also led me to the work on caveUT and VRGL at planetjeff.net and publicvr.org and I will be looking in to that at some point too. Although most people run caveUT/VRGL on windows, it can apparently be done on linux. CaveUT is a simple UTscript mod for unreal tournament up to 2004, so it won't make a difference what OS you use so long as UT2004 runs on it. VRGL is another opengl preload wrapper for frustum manipulation and is open source, so i will have a go at compiling it and see where i get. It has only been tested to work with UT2004, but the authors say it is pretty generic so should work with most opengl implementations.

Another project of note is the stereogl wrapper, which i believe was mentioned here and on the stereo3d forums many years ago. StereoGL enables emulation of quad-buffer opengl in software to enable using quad buffer apps on consumer gfx cards. I believe the authors discussed development here back in 2000 or so, I wonder what happened to them?

Finally, there is also the chromium project, which only works with opengl <= 1.5, but enables all sorts of funky things like tile-sorting then splitting the opengl command stream for cluster rendering of ridiculous resolution display walls, and those 10Mpixel 20in LCDs with 4DVI inputs (the millitary use them lots apparently). Chromium can also do the job of manipulating the frustum to generate 2 different views, but everyone uses opengl2+ now and the development seems to have pretty much ceased. I did get it working with a few simple sceensavers etc though.

Actually, I'm not planning to try that with my current computers, since they can run Doom 3 in stereoscopic 3D with the last nVidia stereo 3D drivers for XP. But if I went out now and bought a new computer, with the intention to use Ubuntu for stereoscopy with my current CRT Samtron monitor, at the resolution of either 640x480 at 120 Hz or 800x600 at 100 Hz (higher resolutions have lower refresh rates), and use my wired eDimensional shutterglasses to see the games in stereoscopy, what should I do?

I have started the beginnings of a wiki on 3d in Linux:

http://linux3d.magicbox.org.uk
or
http://magicbox.org.uk:8001

Only just added the DNS subdomain so may not have propagated yet, but I will slowly add to this as time goes on. Contributions from others welcome too...

Alright mickeyjaw!

Yes, info on 3d under linux is very welcome to me although my time is filled with other projects now and I may not get to this for a year or so. Many times when I finally try something, I think "I've been wanting to do this for years". However, I have tried some interlaced 3d movies on linux and I can do it with my X-force dongle since there's a hardware switch to shutter and reverse the glasses and another button to switch modes: line-blanking, page-flipping and sync-doubling. It's very nice to not rely on drivers to control your glasses. I haven't read your wiki-page yet so I don't know... OK, just looked at it. Nice. E-D Activator works under wine --- cool.

Just looked at your 3d Linux Games topic. Awesome. You might want to try Lugaru if you like complicated hand-to-hand combat. It's OpenGL and there's a windows version too and I already know it works in 3d but you might want to try it since there are not many games like it. Descent 3 should be good too.

http://www.wolfire.com/lugaru

OK, I've read your wiki page more now. I'm glad you've got mplayer info in there and especially -vo x11 for interlaced mode but I've got some tricks I can tell you about and I see you're missing field-sequential to frame-sequential. I've used this with mplayer on windows but there can be sound sync problems so I think stereomovieplayer is worth the money.

Looks like you've already posted your info and so that's that but I'll get back to you on the mplayer tricks. Should I post it here or the wiki or elsewhere? Some data is on an inaccessable hard drive right now so it might be a while.

I use Windows as little as possible but it's got the games and the 3d so I mostly stick with it for that, mostly.
I use Linux for posting on MTBS.

Later alligator.

For those who don't know, if you use Google, you use Linux.

iondrive:

Can you just use tfields=1 with no tile option to convert field sequential to frame sequential? I guess it would only work if your refresh rate perfectly matched the video fps though, or do you have a way to keep it all in sync?

What i really need though is a way to convert left/right into either interlaced or above/below so i can watch l/r stuff without having to convert the movies or use softgenlock (which sucks cos it uses loads of CPU, needs root permissions and sometimes crashes xorg)

I also tested above/below output with stereogl this evening, and it works OK with the test applications, but not with pymol for some reason. I have downloaded ioquake3, and will have a go later this weekend to see if i can get it to work in quad buffer mode.

hi mickey,

sorry to not answer sooner but I got into some testing and there went my time. I've decided to start a new thread about using mplayer/mencoder to play/manipulate 3d videos but I'm not sure where to put it. I would like to put it in a "general 3d software tech support" section but that doesn't exist so I'll put it in the 3d movie section since that's where people who might care might see it. Let's get to your Q's now.

Frame sequential:
This is a big headache due to both video sync and A/V sync problems and I'll talk about that on the other thread but basically you're right except that tfields=0 not 1. Depending on your system you might need to do alot of other things to not lose sync. Here's a short list of things you might or might not need to use:

-ni
-cache=8192 or 32768 or something else or even -nocache
-mc 0
-noframedrop
-nosound - try this first. If you can't get good 3d with nosound then it won't work with sound either.
-speed - speed affects sound playback and fps affects video playback. It's tricky to match them sometimes.
-fps 59.97 or other

And yes, you need to get your display's framerate to be exactly the same as 2x your interlaced video so that's 59.94 for dvds that are 29.97. This all needs alot of 'splainin' so I'll save it for later.

L/R to O/U:
OK, start with a left/right video and try -vf ilpack,fil=i,il=d,scale=X:Y:1. You might need a dsize=X:Y right before the scale and you might not need the ilpack depending on your source file video format and encoding. Compute X and Y from your original L/R dimensions. Halve the original X and double the original Y to get the new values. "fil=i" interlaces L/R video and "il=d" turns the interlaced to over/under as you already know.

Thanks for the tip about WinSGL in my other project although by that time I found it on my own thanks to this topic. The pdf I read said multihead support was for some future upgrade but it seems it never happened. Oh well.

OK, see ya.
I'll post a link to the mplayer / mencoder thread soon.

OK, here it is:
viewtopic.php?uid=9583&f=24&t=4521&start=0

I have now installed a better Wiki and updated it to reflect everything Iondrive and myself have worked out so far in the MPlayer thread.

We now know how to convert and play all types of stereo movie except anaglyph (and dual stream wmv, but that works in VLC) with MPlayer and MEncoder (On Linux or Windows).

Input can be Left/Right stretched or unstretched, Over/Under stretched or unstretched, or interleaved/interleaved/field sequential

Output can be Interleaved,Interlaced,Over/Under for sync doubling, dual outputs or software page flipping (sketchy)

It is also possible to adjust the convergence and vertical alignment for sync doubling on the fly too...


Read all about it here:
http://linux3d.magicbox.org.uk

PS This wiki doesn't have to just be about linux, feel free to use it as a repository for Windows Tips/Tricks/Settings etc too - A forum like MTBS3D is great for discussion but so many n00b questions get asked here time and time again and I think it is probably about time some things (Like the DDC pin mod for XP stereodrivers, DLP+shutterglasess adjustable sync box etc) found a permanent home?!?

I just thought I'd chime in here. I just bought a one of the Headplay visors, on its way to me now . I've been reading up on s-3d for the past few weeks, and the device that I really want to use s-3d for is the pandora, which is a linux handheld gaming device running on an omap3 (ARM) SOC. I realize that getting things working on the pandora will be on the level of very difficult to not possible, but I have some hope.

I guess that I'm wondering a couple of things, number one, is this even possible to do? Say for something that has native 3d like quake 2-3 (soon doom 3)? Next, is there any way of getting around using that dongle? I hope I'm not just dreaming and some of this will eventually work.

Also, I only run linux and mac, so I am quite interested in linux threads like this.

Thanks.

emil10001: Sounds like one hell of a challenge!

Am i right in assuming that you are intending to use s-video to connect the pandora to the headplay?

I know that the headplay uses DDC signaling over VGA to signal left/right frames, but do you know if it will do 3d over the s-video/composite input too?

I would guess that if it does, you would need to feed it interlaced field sequential PAL/NTSC video. Maybe a good test would be to use a linux/mac box with tv out connected to the headplay first, and try to play some 3d interlaced videos.

For information on converting video on the fly to/from different 3d formats, check out the mplayer thread:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4521
Health Warning: trying to understand some mplayer options may cause total brainf**k

As for gaming in S-3D on the pandora, as i understand it the OpenGL games like quake 2/3 are being run through a OpenGL->OpenGL ES wrapper library (NanoGL i think). Code for quad buffer support would most likely have to be added to this wrapper in order to use the native stereoscopic support in these games. It may be helpful to look at the stereogl project on sourceforge, where there is a wrapper library to emulate quad buffer support on a standard OpenGL system.

If you are incredibly lucky, it may be possible to wrap Quake->StereoGL->NanoGL, but I think it is unlikely to work due to the limited subset of OpenGL implemented in NanoGL, and the performance will likely be terrible, but feel free to try to prove me wrong. Using VRizer will NOT be possible on the pandora as it is only available as a closed-source x86 binary, but will almost certainly work on a linux x86 box with the headplay connected via VGA.

Incidentally, i will hopefully soon be getting a Nokia n900, which also uses omap35xx running linux with tv-out, although I do not own a headplay (I might have a pop at using the built-in CIR port to drive wireless shutter glasses though).

Yes, you assume correctly that I would need to use s-video. I should be able to test that with my beagle board, once I get the s-video on that functioning.

Thanks for the link to the mplayer discussion. I know my way around mplayer, but have never used it to try out s-3d. That's the first thing that I will do when I get my linux box rebuilt (hard drive failure).

Yes, my plan was to try to use stereogl to accomplish this task. But, it is a long-term goal, and my expectations for success are pretty low. I haven't really done anything like this before, and I need to get myself up to speed on a lot of different things in order to start really working on this. What you described was basically what i was thinking. So, thanks for letting me know I'm going in the right direction here. Unfortunately, I probably won't really be able to dig into this too much until right before Christmas, I might try some things out in the mean time, but things are just too busy until then.

I will probably post my progress here, working with the headplay and linux. Trying to list what works with minimal effort. We'll see what happens.

Yes, please do post the results of your s-video tests with the headplay as soon as you have tried. I think there are many people on this forum who would be interested in those results, regardless of using linux or not. On another subject, what level of coding experience do you have if you don't mind my asking? Do you know any OpenGL at all or was it your plan to learn it as you go along?

I'd probably have to call myself a novice. I don't know any OpenGL now, so I was planning on learning what I needed along the way. I've done some small projects in different languages, but nothing like this. I think that within the next couple of weeks, I'll be able to get myself going on this project, starting today with getting my linux environment set up properly. (And attempting to recover some data off an accidentally formatted drive.)

I have found a couple of sites with a lot of good info about learning OpenGL, but I don't want to get into it too much until I need to. Otherwise, I'm liable to get side-tracked.

Since it sounds like others would be interested in the s-video tests, maybe I'll try to get that going first, and test it out with a video that I've verified plays in field sequential 3d through vga using mplayer. If you know of a place that's got some field sequential test videos, that would be helpful.