Excellent points! I will be the first one to say active glasses are bulky but comfort depends completely on the manufacturer. I can wear my Crystaleyes for hours without any eyestrain or pressure points, but at the moment they are very expensive too so you get what you pay for. They are supposed to have some new models coming out soon. The Holy Grail of 3D is obviously glasses free but the technology just isn't there yet to minimize the trade-offs (resolution and hot spots). I don't own a polarized solution but have watched many 3D movies with great results, but all had some level of ghosting. Active gives me a ghost free image with bulk currently being the trade-off. Further miniturization of the technology is really in order and development of the technology really hasn't gone anywhere in a decade so it is long overdue. I really couldn't care less what type of glasses need to be worn and would prefer to have none, but I personally won't sacrifice image quality just because one type of glasses looks "cooler" than another. If I am going to spend upwards of $1000 on a 3D HDTV then I would expect the best the technology has to offer.

On the plug and play experience, wouldn't that be great! I think DDD and IZ3D are getting closer and closer to this. The setup program that comes with the DDD drivers does a very good job of setting up the display for proper use and the idea of having custom tailored profiles is huge plus, but it is really the developers job to do this.

And last but not least, Marketing Marketing Marketing! I love the idea of having a "PC vs MAC" parody as those are so funny but educate people at the same time. The S3D Community would be well served by having a 30 second plug at every 3d movie that allows the user to put on a pair of glasses and experience the same thing we do at home! Marketing really hasn't been tapped that much and it is really a shame...

BRILLIANT IDEA!!! That's something that would work well for the current manufacturers (iZ3D, DDD, TDVision, etc) because people have the S3D glasses on so you can give them a true idea of what a game can be like in S3D. Can you imagine if they actually had some of Tomb raider, COD4, and FSX play on those huge cinema screens in S3D? The impact would be huge! You'd have to get an agreement with the game developer/distributor to use their content, but you may even be able to convince them to help fund the advertising expense since it's advertising their game as well.

Yep, would be totally cool and a way to hit your target audience. Too bad I can't take my PC down to the IMAX and play a little COD4 on the big screen!

Yeah, thats really the best idea I have heard in a long time. The people already have the glasses on, its perfect. Thats the hard part, after that the games can sell themselves.

Also, if the Avatar game is really in S3D then I'm pretty sure Ubisoft would want to do this with the movie release.

Yes!
Really a good idea!
No question every gamer in the movie theatre would want to play in s-3d!
Than he goes to the mall and eventually finds a samsung-mitsubishi demo station... just great

pixel67 - great idea about the preview in Imax cinemas. That will require some coordination between the gaming industry - companies like Ubi, EA and others and Imax. I suppose you can't really be using their products without permission to advertise another product, although it would be of great benefit to them. It would be even better if iz3d ( or zalman, mitsubishi, samsung) team up with gaming companies to promote games in s-3d in Imax cinemas - a true win-win situation.

However your other idea -


...would be really hard to achieve, at least at this point in time. Making games s-3d certified in theory may not be so hard, I assume, if stereo becomes mainstream and someone picks up the torch (like mtbs3d has done now, only bigger - like amd or nvidia), but making it plug n' play is a whole different concept. I don't mean displaying post-processing effects or hud, or crosshair ( all of that can be taken care of, as the guys at iz3d have shown us) but rather settings like convergence and separation. We as a community cannot settle upon a perfect setting ( and we being people who've been playing in stereo for a long time) what is to say about someone who has no idea how stereo works. There are different drivers for the different types of hardware and settings vary from game to game, not to mention personal taste of how stereo should be set. So you see that may be the hardest thing to achieve, it's not like widescreen support - you either have a ws resolution support or you don't ( and if you don't you go to widescreengamingforum.com and check for hacks).

I agree. "Plug and Play" really hasn't been defined yet in S3D so it is impossible to achieve something that hasn't been defined. I think we have come a LONG way comparitively and IZ3D/DDD are on the right track with things such as autoconvergence. Still, a user will need to familiarize themselves with some type of GUI to achieve what is the best S3D for them. It just needs to be in the game engine vs high overhead conversion after the fact so developers know how to fix certain anomalies and can optomize their game for stereo output.

Another really important point I just realized no one has brought up: you cannot display 3D images on a 2D display without additional hardware and/or software. This is probably an even bigger issue than the stigma of wearing "nerdy" glasses. There is no way an average joe can go to a review site and see what a stereo3d product has to offer. When you are buying a product there are usually clear specs or comparisons that can be made. For video cards, you can look at benchmarks are get a feel for how much better one card is to your current card. If you are buying a digital camera, you can view actual pictures taken with the camera. If you are looking at a console system, you can watch a video trailer for a game and imagine playing it. For stereo3d there is nothing. Even cross-eye photos are just too much for the general public. This is a core problem because how do you sell something when you cannot demonstrate its features without actually using it? People just don't even believe it works until they see it, and they can't see it without actually having it. Only the die-hard will spend big $$$ on a leap of faith.

Well, a review could be made using anaglyph screenshots (getting paper anaglyph glasses is cheaper, but it will be still needed to byu a type of glasses). In general I agree with you that promoting such a product without the product itself is hard. You have to actually at least be able to do the cross-eye method to see in stereo, and for some people it is very hard.
One option remains - one that is really irritating however (to me at least) , but viewable without any glasses or changing of eye focal point is the shaky-image (a gif file which flips between left and right eye).

That is the point I was trying to make earlier. The way the technology is marketed makes all the difference. Place it where people can see it and experience it vs using some animated gif or "3D Ready" logo and leaving them wondering, "What is this 3D stuff about"? It is kind of like trying to simulate 7:1 surround sound through a pair of desktop speakers. You have to be there and experience it yourself to "get it"... After experiencing it, then they can go online and make an informed purchase if they feel more comfortable in cyberspace...

"Plug and Play" has been mentioned several times in this thread. Being a new user, one of my biggest hurdles with getting my 3D setup running was figuring out what codecs to install and use with my DDD player. All these 3D companies need to make the whole installation and setup process easier for the average user. IE, work towards a more plug and play environment.

I consider myself a person with an above average technical skill level. I'm a programmer/computer tech and make my living helping other people with computers. So I am fairly knowledgeable. I did get my 3D setup working, but it took me doing some research and several hours installing and re-installing different DVD playback packages till I got it working properly. The whole process needs to be "dummy proofed" if this is going to go mainstream.

Here are a few things I think would really help:

1. Software packages need to have built in DVD / Blu-ray Codecs.
Playback of media in media players that are designed for 3D should not force you to go purchase 2D playback software Go up on the price if yo must, but
this really really needs to be bundled in with your software. Don't make people download extra software to run your progams. I would dare say that over
1/2 your customer base would not know how to go lookup codecs on google.

2. Starter Kits need to include cables (DVI / HDMI / AV) for TV connections(or at least instructions/reccomendations)
This may seem a little ridiculous to most of us. We all know that you have to hook your TV to a computer and how. But what about the average user?
I had a buddy over last night showing him my 3D setup. After we got done he said (and i quote). "Man thats really cool, but if you just gave me all your
electronic stuff there is no way I would get any of it working" (TV/AV-Reciever/Computer/3D). Lets face it, the average user is doesn't know how to change
inputs on an AV-reciever much less run software form a PC on a TV. This is something the industry has to overcome. Packaging cables is going to be a
must.

3. For PC to TV solutions Wireless I\O devices are needed.
This is also self explanatory. The general public will need to understand that they will want a wirelss Keyboard / Mouse for controlling their PC on their
couch. At the very least extension cables will be needed. This is knowledge we all also take for granted but your average joe schmo won't realize till he
gets it home and tries to use the package.

4. All 3D media players need some form of GUI to change options.
I have only experienced the Tridef player so far, so this may or may not apply to other companies products.
With tridef, there are only hotkeys to make option changes. They work, but are not user friendly. Average Joe is going to need some sort of GUI options
panel with all the options so you can change them on the fly.

WOW this is good Input and showes the problems. I had them too, when I started. It took me days to get at least some 3D to work! I needed hours to finde suteable information and had to install 5 and more drivers (which didn't help much). My problem was, that I used xp sp1 instead of sp2

to your first point:
1) would it help to have a software bundle here on MTBS3D ready for download? Maybe someone could add a .bat file, which starts all installations in the right order. Afaik the user would have to click a lot of next's, but it would help I think...
Of course it's better, if the company does it itself, but if they don't want to...

4) you could try out stereoscopic player it has a 2D menue loke most applications... it supports most outputs, too.

Yeah I think a .bat file , or even a good link to instructions would have helped me alot. I didn't find this web site until after I got it all working, so in my particular case it wouldn't have helped much. I wonder if Tridef would be willing to put a link to MTBS on their DVD decoder page. That would have been fantastic.
DVD Decoder Page - http://www.tridef.com/support/dvd-decoders.html

My deal was, on Tridef.com all it said was you need a dvd decoder, gave me a link to their preferred decoder's web site (WinDVD) and thats it. There were $20, $79, and $99 packages for WinDVD. Now I just spent $199 on a starter kit and $60x2 on extra glasses. $144 on a wireless keyboard/mouse bluetooth combo(my choice, i know). Also, about $60 on miscellaneous audio and video cables to hook it all up. And now they are saying I need to buy a DVD decoder, UGH!!!. I realize my 5 year old version of PowerDVD needed to be replaced, which was the only thing that kept me sane. But how will the general public feel when they drop roughly $500 on a 3D setup (more if you dont have a DLP) and then find out they need to spend more money to get it to work... See my point?


I will definitely give Stereoscopic player a go one night this week. I'm waiting on on 4 DVD's from Amazon as we speak(Alien Adventure, Haunted Mansion, Encounters in the 3rd Dimension, and Spy Kids). Can't wait to try those out on both players. Its amazing they are shipping from Atlanta, GA (2 hours drive from my house) , ordered them on July 3rd and not gonna get em till the 11th. *waves hands and curses at the US postal service*

I think I agree, but the glasses don't even need to be active.

The "Real D" setup uses a circular polarized color wheel on DLP I believe, this allows one projector to display passive headgear 3D.

I just wish that this technology could be made available to the home user (how much more could a new color wheel with polarization possibly cost? Surely not more than a couple thousand dollars beyond a standard DLP including the software/electronics.)

The checkerboard LCD is a brilliant concept as well.

The problem is one of cooperation for sure: there is no content. The drivers are ridiculous (iZ3D is helping, but they are just getting started), and the 3D content available is mostly crap (I couldn't really get encounter in the 3rd dimension to do much, plus at half of TV resolution it was just junk). The hardware guys have no software, the software guys have no hardware, there are no plug and play solutions.

Kudos to the theaters for releasing 3D movies, but you need to start cooperating to get this content sold at home, or at the least so people can see it in person, it is over an hour drive for me to see, and the theater only plays one movie (currently journey to the center of the earth).