VR Controllers Thread.

[Okta]

Now that quite a few of us are playing with HMD's we need to talk about about our controller setups. Since there isnt a VR place ill put it here for now.

Using my ghetto HMD i have been playing some Quake with a Gyration air mouse mounted on top and another one in my hand. Now i just cobbled together a Wii gun setup. It has a cheap wii gun holder, nunchuck, wii remote and wii motion plus. After cobbling together a simple glove pie script it now gives me mouse look and movement and plenty of spare buttons for whatever else all wireless. I still havent finshed the long cables for the HMD so i cant get clear turning down yet though.

This is where it gets tricky. Head tracking is great in HMD's but as you know aiming is a no no. Thats where teh gun comes in so you can aim with that but it takes a lot of getting used to and causes much disorientation having 2 forms of mouse look happening. Ive yet to try a game with independant aiming so that could be the bomb.

Please share your setups and thoughts on the most emersive setups you can home brew for you HMD's and mainly fps.

[cybereality]

Well I remember at one point years ago I have the most ghetto VR setup known to man but it was great. First of all I had just got the P5 data glove and was using it to play games. Then I got a PS2 Dance-Dance-Revolution mat and got a converter to USB so I could use it on the computer. Last, but not least, the ELSA Revelators. My game of choice at the time was Grand Theft Auto 3. So I would use the dance pad to move around (basically mapped to the WASD on the keyboard), and the P5 glove to aim and shoot. Obviously everything was wired and I didn't have an HMD at the time so I had to stay pretty stationary. But even so, it added a lot to the immersion factor. Seems pretty silly now, but I thought it was cool.

In terms of alternate controllers I am not sure there is anything on the market that fits, seems more of a DIY thing. However the big problem is game support. The only game I have played with independent look and aiming was the VR920 mutator for UT2004. So you could use the headtracking to look around but use the mouse to aim. It was kinda weird to play like that (much easier without the headtracking at all) but it was pretty immersive. Not sure of any other games that do this but maybe some can be modded.

[VRgamesterz]

I also played with the VR920 UT2k4, and it was wierd, the only games that allow seperate aiming from the head is what naturalpoint has for games, like Arma 1&2 and Operational flash point, something to that nature. I think the easiest gun setup is the trimersion one, I just took the tracking out of the helmet and put it on the gun, not pretty with a box on it but it does work well. Besides looking with head and aim with gun, I'd like to lean my body side to side and duck, now with ur Wii setup can that somehow get put in the script for ducking and maybe jumping?

Ku

[Okta]

This answers you wii controller question VR. I tried a setup with a single wii strapped to my chest and leaning to move but it was no intuitive and didnt work well.

Hello, I am the man who is living the dream that you all have. I know how stupid that sounds but in a buggy, high maintenance sort of way, it’s true.

My story is simple. I got a Z800 for $550 about 3 years ago and spent the next year and a half developing my “dork corner”. The amount of trial and error to get a feel for the z800 and use it in the best way possible is ridiculous but I’m glad I did it. The next big step was perfecting the art of smashing 4 wiimote all around my body and getting the ducks, jumps, leans and walking livable.—still not perfect but lately the responses are really quite tight. ((the jumping is actually a simulated lunge where my feet don’t fully leave the ground and my chest wiimote detect the upwasimulated lunge where my feet don’t fully leave the ground and my chest wiimote detect the upward motion.

My next big discovery was the…I can’t remember what its called (I’m at work) I think the Logitech MXair mouse. I velcroed it to my headphones and the leap in headtracking smoothness was astounding, well, for a $140 air mouse anyway. The one problem with that is that if you are 100% still for about 30 seconds it will lag on your next movement for a split second as some kind of save battery feature. But staying completely still is a lot harder than it sounds and almost never happens.

I won’t lie; there are so many bugs and frustrations with my setup that even an AAA title feels like a mod sometimes. But what I’m doing is real. Not the Matrix, no. But a lot closer than you think.
I log about 13 hours a week. But only 5 of those hours are in full VR. When I play multiplayer with my friends I usually sit down and only use headtracking and S-3D. I use Full VR for single player where I have the freedom to stop and fix bugs without bothering friends. My girlfriend calls it “spinning” because I march in place spinning is circles. Can I really be the only spinner out there? No, I have read and talked to a few others but we are defiantly rare.

Finally, there is an unconfirmed rumor that the Z800 will work on the IZ3D drivers without the 60fps problem if you have the newest firmware. I will finally get around to giving that a try soon because iI will buy it when I visit the U.S this summer. (They want $70 to ship it to my resident country.)

Cyber,
That Dance mat idea is great i love it I dont know how intuitive it would feel and i cant see a way to use it with a HMD because of direction change. But still cool for a front screen.

I got my VR920 yesterday and out of the 3 games i tried to use its 3d on they all crashed and wouldnt start once i added the files So i couldnt test the head tracking. Thought i would use glovepie then discovered the love story between Vuzix and Carl (I dont give a poop what Carl said, gorw up Vuzix you dick heads) so Carl has banned support for VR920 in glovepie.

At least i could use it in 3d with my old nvidia test rig. And as we thought it uses the same Kopin module form my Argo hmd. This difference is that the VR920 can do 800x600 and 1024x768.

Anyhow, even using a airmouse to play with the VR920, immersion doesnt kick in until you use some head tracking as i mounted it on top for a trial.

[VRgamesterz]

OKta, what bluetooth are you using and explain alittle how or where you add the scripts. I'd like to try the Wii controller setup sometime, I think ducking would be very immersive, maybe even leaning..

Ku

[Okta]

VR, ill try and do a more detailed post of that setup some time soon but its simply the tiny cheap usb dongle off ebay (looks like a black half moon) using bluesoliel software and glovepie with various wii controller scripts.

Ive had another geek attack.

I want to make a movement tracking method for a wearable setup. Something that can simply track walking back, forward, left right to WASD. I have an idea to use a webcam mounted on a short boom at the hip facing the ground. The idea being you could go to a large park or indoor area anjd VR geek around with teh full hmd and onboard pc. Anyone have any idea how to get some output out of this motion?

Or another idea i saw a while back is to have a little trailer behind you with a wheel and sensor. Cant remember were i have seen it.

Any more ideas?

[crim3]

You can calculate the position in space of an IR LED using two cameras (two wiimotes for example). You could wear the LED over your head.

[Okta]

You can calculate the position in space of an IR LED using two cameras (two wiimotes for example). You could wear the LED over your head.

I have heard of that one but it sound a little restrictive for what im after.

[Fredz]

In the iPhone 4 there is a new element called a gyroscope which is able to determine the orientation of the phone in real time. It has been demonstrated in the game Eliminate: Gunrange quite recently and it seems to be quite precise. I don't know if it's feasible to use a gyroscope of this type as a movement tracking device but I think there could be some potential. Here is video of the game :

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmKb2ZSOMU[/youtube]

As you said, you could also try to determine the movement and orientation with a mounted cam, for that you would need a software which is able to track points in real time and calculate their position in 3d space. For example you could try to write something like Voodoo Camera Tracker or ProFORMA which is able to work in real time. Not an easy task though...

A video of ProFORMA in action :

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOmzjImsVc[/youtube]

[crim3]

With gyroscopes you can't determine the position (longitudes), they are for orientation (angles).

[Fredz]

Yep, with gyroscopes only you can't detect motion, but it seems the iPhone 4 is able to do it thanks to the accelerometer that was already in the iPhone 3GS. The video I gave a link for tend to comfort me in this idea. Still I'm not sure about it, but I've read this information there :
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/gaming ... &wom=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Earlier models such as the iPhone 3 and 3GS offered a built-in accelerometer that let you tilt to steer in racing or flight games, or tip the handset to shift between horizontal and vertical views.

The iPhone 4 promises greater precision and accuracy when recognizing pronounced turns, abrupt pitches or speedy hand movements, similar to the six-axis motion tracking offered by Sony's DualShock 3 controller or Nintendo's gesture-tracking Wii MotionPlus accessory.

The new iPhone can now tell when you move up, down, left, right, forward or backward, or when you speed or slow your momentum. This opens myriad new frontiers for developers to explore in terms of upcoming game apps.

[crim3]

The accelerometers are intended to eliminate the drift of the gyroscopes using Earth gravity as reference, and also allow for gesture recognition, but I don't think that they are accurate enough to allow something like integrate position from their acceleration readings. But works very well for what it's intended. X-plane uses it to convert the i-phone or the i-pad into a flight yoke.

[Fredz]

I just tried with the AccelGraph application on my iPhone 3GS and it can detect movement on any of the 3 axis when I move the phone. I don't know if it's precise or sensible enough to detect the position though, when the movement is very slow the graph doesn't seem to be modified.

[crim3]

Then they could be use for rough position calculation.

That proforma video is cool!

[PalmerTech]

Keep in mind, the iPhone 4 and 3GS both have a very accurate compass, too. With an accelerometer, a compass, and a gyrsoscope, it is a very, very sensitive motion tracking tool.

I am hoping the new iPod Touch 4 that is going to be announced soon has the same. It would make sense, considering how they are pushing it as a gaming platform.

[crim3]

Keep in mind, the iPhone 4 and 3GS both have a very accurate compass, too. With an accelerometer, a compass, and a gyrsoscope, it is a very, very sensitive motion tracking tool.

I am hoping the new iPod Touch 4 that is going to be announced soon has the same. It would make sense, considering how they are pushing it as a gaming platform.

A compass, 3 gyroscopes and 3 accelerometeres is what the motion sensor of my z800 has, and it's a 3 DOF sensor, not 6. Really, the accelerometers are not mean to track motion (linear motion) but to use the gravity field as an absolute reference of the down direction.
BUT, if all you need is to trigger WASD commands, those accelerometers could be really useful. Maybe hard to do, but doable.

[Okta]

Acceleromtres are not the way to go. As you said they only really give reference on gravity so they are used more for tilt than anything else.

[Okta]

Come on guys keep thinking

I want to try this out at least once. HMD with head tracking, wearable computer, and movement tracking. This will be crazy immersion if you are playing an FPS looking around inside the world and then you step forwards and move!. At the moment im using the nunchuck joystick on my Wii gun setup and it is not intuitive and messes with the experience.

[vrekks]

TrackIR, Novint Falcon, Peregrine glove, Wii zapper, force feedback steering wheel, Wii balance board and hopefully a driver that makes Microsofts Kinnect work for PC eventually

[cybereality]

The Peregrine glove is a big disappointment. It is useful only to do hotkey type commands. They should have made a real data-glove.

[vrekks]

Im with ya cyber. Ever since I watched "The Wizard" I have wanted one.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4720149876#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't remember right now but there was a website that sold magnetic bend sensors for a diy data glove.

[cybereality]

Have you guys seen this gun coming out soon:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/27/g-ma ... proval-we/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[VRgamesterz]

No price tag, do date of release, they seem to put some time into it, looks like some time to get used to it as well LOL, PC must work well, not sure about the consol.

[Okta]

Looks good, but i already have exactly that with my Wii gun

[vrekks]

You know the mag gun is not a "light gun". It doesn't track where the gun is pointing. It is just a gun shaped controller. You still look and aim with the sticks. A wii gun and zapper are literally more advanced than that gimmick.

EDIT: It looks like there is only one stick and you aim using an accelerometer. No where near the accuracy or precision of optical tracking. Imagine trying to aim a wiimote without the camera and tracker bar.

[Okta]

I dont use teh tracker bar with the wiimote i use the teh wii motion plus add on that gives it usable tracking. Still nothing compared to a gryation air mouse but quite acceptable with a good script.

[PalmerTech]

I don't think it uses an accelerometer, especially seeing how you point it at the center, then calibrate. Check out the front of the gun, it looks like a camera lens. I think it tracks the position of the TV screen, a distinct, bright rectangle as you move around.

[vrekks]

I don't think it uses an accelerometer, especially seeing how you point it at the center, then calibrate. Check out the front of the gun, it looks like a camera lens. I think it tracks the position of the TV screen, a distinct, bright rectangle as you move around.

Well that would be a novel approach to motion tracking. Lets hope you don't have a ambilight tv or a bright window next to it. Also what would happen during dark scenes of the game?

[PalmerTech]

I don't know, seems like a problem. I would not be at all surprised if this product never even makes it to final production, or just as likely, is a big flop. It is certainly an interesting idea, though.

[Markurt]

Hello Everyone,

Check out this Gun Controller
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32032" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seems perfect to act as a "trimersion gun" like...
They said that it works as a Mouse ..so I suppose that there is a AirMouse integrated inside ..

@+

[cybereality]

Check out this Gun Controller
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32032" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems interesting, and the price isn't bad. But what does this mean:

Support Windows 2000, ME, XP, Mac ox 8.6 or above

No Vista or 7 support? What about 64-bit? I don't know what to think.

Also, I wonder if having a 3D screen would effect the tracking at all. For example, wouldn't a 120Hz page-flipped display confuse the gun?

[Okta]

Hmm, it could be a gyro mouse built it or that square tag at the bottom may be a target to mount near the screen for tracking. Usb cord yuk too, for that price you can get a wii setup or real gyro mouse cordless.