"Portal Dual" Wide 180+ FOV and Open Source Software

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:33 am

Hello Everyone,

I have not updated the thread lately because I am still working on the "Software Portal Engine" for the Portal Dual. I hope to have something more tangible soon to post over here. I will be designing the next version of The Portal Dual as well.

Currently also working on another VR contraption. I will update on that later as I have something concrete to share.

Cheers all!

Post by **SinSilla** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:30 am

Hey Hannibal, lovely and promising design you have there. What are your mid to long term goals with the PortalDual? Are you planning to go commercial or will this be an open source project?
Have any news to share regarding your software work, is it going to be a sdk?

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:47 am

SinSilla wrote:Hey Hannibal, lovely and promising design you have there. What are your mid to long term goals with the PortalDual? Are you planning to go commercial or will this be an open source project?
Have any news to share regarding your software work, is it going to be a sdk?

Hello Sinsilla, good question. Next year there will be may companies providing VR in some way and different forms commercially. Oculus is already mounting to have a great entry so I am excited for the Rift and how it is going to be accepted. So I am on their camp to succeed!

Going back to you question, yes it is likely that some form variant of the Portal Dual will be commercial. Also I want to embrace Open Source as offering and yes an SDK will likely be available if we finally take a plunge into the market, so in a nutshell it maybe both at the end (if that is our final decision). I am sure that there will be others besides "InfinitEye" and "Portal Dual" form factor lurking to be announced.

I have a feeling that we are going back to the early 1970's when there were many versions of Pong Home systems, but now it will be VR

Post by **SinSilla** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:54 pm

Thanks, I'll keep track of the development for sure. Wish you guys good luck and please keep us updated.
By the way, who are you guys anyway, what's your background if I may ask? Your animation and modeling skills are impressive!

Anyway, one last question: With only slightly less hfov than the Infiniteye you will most probably face the same problems, specifically getting games to render that high fov. Most games, even those with variable fov, aren't intended to be seen that way and start showing clipping issues and other visual oddities. What's your approach at that problem and what performance cost will it have?

Post by **Antome** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:14 am

I have been wondering if a partial solution to the FOV problem would involve the lower-end FOV(160?), and adding some diffusive material, then either letting the light bleed or adding LEDs to create ambient light in peripheral vision that is the average of near edge pixels. As long as you're not intentionally looking at it, it should help to "fill the void" as it were, of your peripheral vision.

Post by **dkd** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:14 am

Hi,

Don't wanna sound rude but as soon as I read that another developer has started thinking about a commercial project I see that his thread stops being updated regularly. What a pity!
I am newbie to 3D world, only twice tried OR. It was very nice experience but it looked like an immersion to the virtual world wearing a dive mask on the head. No peripheral vision as well very low resolution. Then I read about foisi's InfiniteEye (thanks to him for sharing the great idea) and realised that I would need a HMD with HI FOV only. After that I have read through your thread. Thank you very much for sharing such an interesting design of casing. Now my friend and me are in DIY section and we are going to assemble our own HMD using dual screen setup and fresnel lens. So we think we will be able to make a kinda clone of IfE v1. My concern is only a software part. We have no experience in coding at all and don't have an idea where to start. The road of 1000 miles starts with one step, so any help/advice would be very appreciated.
Sorry for bad English.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:37 am

This site is great in that we all can learn from each other and continue pushing to get VR further.

Portal Dual would not have been made without the excellent work of Foisi, so he is the man! Infinite Eye is ahean in that it has a fully functioning Software Engine. The Portal Engine still in a work in progress. If I feel I get stuck in the progress and time, I may just release it so the comunity can help further its development.

Besides Portal Dual and Infinte Eye there is another dual unit that will be announce porbably shortly. Im sure it will be pretty nice piece as well. The software that will be promoted with it will should be pretty impressive if at the end all works out. But I can not give more details since it isn't my unit. So will have to wait.

Cheers

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:03 pm

Hello Everyone, I have not updated in some time. Just like everyone else been pretty busy

I have been working on the graphics engine for the Portal Engine and so I will show some updates. There is plenty to do with it so I hope I can continue update on it soon. No video yet but some pictures of the work in progress engine.

In the pictures below, I am using some basic models and not a an actual demo world which I am designing at the moment.
The barrel distortion is certainly needs more work. However, there is plenty of options to tweak the images independently from each display. This is just in case for some reason there were some display physical shifting. There are enough controls that should allow to re align the images to the users preference.

Anyway take a look at the images below.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:10 pm

Here are some more pictures

Cheers

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:54 am

The next release of the engine release should have lighting and shadows effects enabled. I will post some picts later

Cheers

Post by **D4N13L** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:12 am

This is looking really good ! Good luck with the progress

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:55 am

D4N13L wrote:This is looking really good ! Good luck with the progress

Thanks! Here are two image updates of the latest engine. Added are lighting and shades but not shadows. This are just place holder assets only.

I hope you like it

Cheers

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:12 pm

Hello Everyone, I did a quick video showing the Engine on the Portal Dual. There still much to do but things are taking shape. The Yei sensor is yet to be implemented.

This is not a demo yet but the regular assets use for the development of the engine

Let me know your thoughts

Cheers

[youtube-hd]watch?v=sElnv3-zk9o&feature=youtu.be[/youtube-hd]

Post by **Marulu** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:06 pm

This looks great, keep up the good work.
I can´t wait to see how it will perform once you have head tracking.
The frame rate in the screen shots seems rather low for VR.
Can you please post the specs of the rig you used?
I am interested how good of a rig is needed for a comfortable VR experience on the Portal Dual.

-Marulu

Post by **cybereality** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:20 pm

Nice.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:33 am

Marulu wrote:This looks great, keep up the good work.
I can´t wait to see how it will perform once you have head tracking.
The frame rate in the screen shots seems rather low for VR.
Can you please post the specs of the rig you used?
I am interested how good of a rig is needed for a comfortable VR experience on the Portal Dual.

-Marulu

Hello Marulu, Thanks for the comment, but there are more things that need to improve. The engine was written with C# WPF.
Edit. The software was written in C++.

At the studio we have all kind of set ups. I was using my Dell M6600 with a 24 GB ram, 2920xm cpu, and a Quadro 3000m to test things. Lately external monitors are driving the performance to almost a halt.
For the meantime I am using a Quad core CPU with 2 gigs ram, and an old Nvidia 9800gt, 512 vram. This is fine for the early test, I don't have any demanding assets yet. Once I start building things, the GPU will be taxed, however this is a basic engine and it does not support particles effects nor shadows.

Some things that need to improve are definitely the optics. I do not use the same brand as Foisi's InfiniteEye, although spec wise are virtually identical. The current optics are adequate for use, but on a commercial venture a single lens option is preferable if not a must.

Testing the unit with single Fresnel on each eyes give a comparative if not better feel than the Rifts Dev kit optics. This advantage (personal view) is negated when stacks are used. The image becomes softer all through out and prone for more and obvious chromatic aberration. Part of this can be attributed to the shader settings I have currently on the engine. Improve coding perhaps can help on this. (I am not and software engineer so don't quote me on that)

The problem with off the shelves Fresnel's are the sizes/augmentation balance needed for the unit. If I were building a dual 5.5 this would be easier but still be an issue. I know somebody on this forum that this solved through a special custom Fresnel order. This however do comes to a cost.

I will be adding more updates, probably of the demo I will be constructing.

When comparing the stacks optics of the Portal Dual to the Rift, clearly the Rift has sharper and brighter image quality. On the Dual, you get a more resolution with less obvious pixels at the cost of more pronounce Chromatic aberration, darker feel (meaning less light goes through the lenses), and softer overall feel.

I will have to look further on custom Fresnel's and do more test.

Cheers

Post by **dkd** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:28 am

Many thanks for the update. It's very interesting!!!
As far as I understand you are quite disappointed in the optics you have used. You said the specs of lenses are virtually identical to that foisi had implemented in his Infiniteye but when I am watching your video I see that they really don’t look like as foisi’s ones. Just comparing the images. Am I wrong?
If I am not mistaken you could get another result on the same specs just because of using the different brand lens (I mean quality of material, manufacture etc).
From the reading the foisi’s thread and roadtovr’s review I found out that they had got the best result with stacked lenses namely. There was only one annoying thing in their setup. That was very noticeable chromatic aberration which they hope to reduce later by using a software correction. Of course, it was also said about wash some color and contrast from the image but not dramatically, AFAIK. Well, you said that the single Fresnel on each eye would be the best choice. I am a little confused. Let me speculate: for reaching a wide FOV we need a single (per eye) Fresnel lenses with special requirements. These lenses are not presented in market now (or even existed), so we have to use stacked lenses for obtaining required FOV but the cost will be lost in contrast and colors? Did I get it right?

What kind of the difficulties have you faced in implementation of Yei sensor? I remember you were writing about some kind of malfunction. Could you clarify that?
Kindly keep us updated. Sorry for poor English.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:08 am

dkd wrote:Many thanks for the update. It's very interesting!!!
As far as I understand you are quite disappointed in the optics you have used. You said the specs of lenses are virtually identical to that foisi had implemented in his Infiniteye but when I am watching your video I see that they really don’t look like as foisi’s ones. Just comparing the images. Am I wrong?
If I am not mistaken you could get another result on the same specs just because of using the different brand lens (I mean quality of material, manufacture etc).
From the reading the foisi’s thread and roadtovr’s review I found out that they had got the best result with stacked lenses namely. There was only one annoying thing in their setup. That was very noticeable chromatic aberration which they hope to reduce later by using a software correction. Of course, it was also said about wash some color and contrast from the image but not dramatically, AFAIK. Well, you said that the single Fresnel on each eye would be the best choice. I am a little confused. Let me speculate: for reaching a wide FOV we need a single (per eye) Fresnel lenses with special requirements. These lenses are not presented in market now (or even existed), so we have to use stacked lenses for obtaining required FOV but the cost will be lost in contrast and colors? Did I get it right?

What kind of the difficulties have you faced in implementation of Yei sensor? I remember you were writing about some kind of malfunction. Could you clarify that?
Kindly keep us updated. Sorry for poor English.

Hello Dkd,

I just want to stress that InfiniteEye is far further than Portal Dual. Yes, InfiniteEye and Portal Dual use different manufactures on lenses. Probably the Infiniteye does have a higher quality, but I am pretty certain that still has some issues like ours. Having stacks reduces the light that goes through the lenses. This is due to the extra layer of plastic, and this is bound to affect the overall image sharpness. The good aspect to mention is that it can help minimize screen door to a degree, but that is due to the softness created by the stacking.

Now, the image quality still very pleasing mind you, and I am sure that most everyone would see a different experience with the wider FOV. I guess I can try the lenses that InfinitEye uses and do some testing, but i doubt it will be drastic difference.

About custom lenses goes for Fresnel, I can tell you that there is another dual display HMD that will be announced probably very soon (not mine). Possible with a more robust software than those in InfinitEye and mine but it will be targeted at sightly different market. Also if I am correct, the form factor will be more attractive based on size. I can not really give more on this. but the arena will be getting very interesting!

This unit will have a single Fresnel for each eye and it is specifically made for the unit.

Now, about chroma Aberration, the software engineer and I seem to reach to the conclusion that each Fresnel has some specs values of the lense that are needed. This data can then be use to help tweak the barrel distortion pixel shaders to match the manufactures Fresnel lenses values. This need to be put into practice however, so will see.

I hope this help in any way

Cheers

Post by **3dpmaster** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:23 pm

Your hmd has a closed curved side form that blocks the most side rays of the unwanted light from outside, very important!
The caps reduces reflectance from the environment (like the sun, windows etc.)
InfiniteEye doesn't.

---Tested with my own fresnel lenses---

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:50 pm

3dpmaster wrote:Your hmd has a closed curved side form that blocks the most side rays of the unwanted light from outside, very important!
The caps reduces reflectance from the environment (like the sun, windows etc.)
InfiniteEye doesn't.

---Tested with my own fresnel lenses---

3dmaster!!!!!!!!!!

How are you?!!, true to that, but one variant of the InfiniteEye prototype does have the side blocks. The later models seem to have lost them. How are those curved lenses of yours?

I'm currently testing with single lenses and not as mush with the stacks. The quality really is much improved on image sharpness an fidelity. The sizes are a problem though.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:40 pm

Currently, testing with single Fresnel. Determinately good but now need to get better augmentation and size

Post by **3dpmaster** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Hi Hannibalj2

everything goes well,

I'm still bussy with the optical machining setup at the moment.
Almost ready to start.
Something concerning about multiple fresnels:
The stacks are usefull if they are coupled together with the pitches in front of eachother (one couple per eye). Example:
l> = one lens ; l><l = couple of two lenses with the flat surfaces outside!

If the lenses are stacked with more than two, the focus will be almost unpossible. The more fresnel lenses are used, the more blurry zones will occur.

To overcome this I'll try to combinate normal lenses with fresnels to see how they interfere with eachother.
I hope it will work.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:31 pm

3dpmaster wrote:Hi Hannibalj2

everything goes well,

I'm still bussy with the optical machining setup at the moment.
Almost ready to start.
Something concerning about multiple fresnels:
The stacks are usefull if they are coupled together with the pitches in front of eachother (one couple per eye). Example:
l> = one lens ; l><l = couple of two lenses with the flat surfaces outside!

If the lenses are stacked with more than two, the focus will be almost unpossible. The more fresnel lenses are used, the more blurry zones will occur.

To overcome this I'll try to combinate normal lenses with fresnels to see how they interfere with eachother.
I hope it will work.

Interesting, so you will somehow test aspheric lense and stack it with a Fesnel one? What are the current specs for the Fresnel?

I have tested the combination of matching the Fresnel as you mentioned. Depending on the matching, it will affect the barrel distortion effect.

It seems you are very active still and that is very cool! You have any pictures of your progress?

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:12 pm

I noticed that the Ipad mini 2 retina are already available. I feel tempted to test them on the Portal Dual.
I think they may fit on my vs Prototype. Will have to check at the tech mall if they have some.

Main concern is running dual 2048x1536 lcds may not be possible with me Quadro 3000M.

Post by **play2lose** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:32 pm

Hannibalj2 wrote:I noticed that the Ipad mini 2 retina are already available. I feel tempted to test them on the Portal Dual.
I think they may fit on my vs Prototype. Will have to check at the tech mall if they have some.

Main concern is running dual 2048x1536 lcds may not be possible with me Quadro 3000M.

The 2013 Nexus 7's with 1920x1200 have basically the exact same PPI (323 vs 324 on the iPad Mini 2) but the advantage of being a bit smaller and lighter, so I think those would work better wouldn't they?

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:44 pm

play2lose wrote:
Hannibalj2 wrote:I noticed that the Ipad mini 2 retina are already available. I feel tempted to test them on the Portal Dual.
I think they may fit on my vs Prototype. Will have to check at the tech mall if they have some.

Main concern is running dual 2048x1536 lcds may not be possible with me Quadro 3000M.
The 2013 Nexus 7's with 1920x1200 have basically the exact same PPI (323 vs 324 on the iPad Mini 2) but the advantage of being a bit smaller and lighter, so I think those would work better wouldn't they?

Right, but the retina would improve vertical FOV. Horizontal FOV is a none factor, but there is a tad drop on Vertical. The Ipad Mini would solve that. The Ipan Mini 2 lcds are much ligther than the current 7 inch Innolux display I am using.

The weigh on this Ipads lcds are a non issue also. It comes down if you want an even bigger Headset strapped to you face and the impractical heavy controller board!

Post by **Fredz** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:15 pm

Hannibalj2 wrote:Main concern is running dual 2048x1536 lcds may not be possible with me Quadro 3000M.

I guess so. Via DVI I think you should only be able to support 1920x1200@60Hz per output. Via DP you'd probably need support for version 1.2 (which this GPU doesn't seem to support) since version 1.1 seems to have a similar limitation than dual-link DVI (although a bit higher, 8.64 Gbps vs 7.92 Gbps, but still not enough for 2048x1536@120Hz or 2x60Hz).

Post by **Harley C** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:35 am

Any news about Portal Dual HMD hardware or development on a SDK?

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:47 pm

Harley C wrote:Any news about Portal Dual HMD hardware or development on a SDK?

Yes, we still improving certain aspects of each eye manipulation . As far SDK goes, we are considering "integration", but timeline, can't comment at the moment.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:51 pm

Hello everyone, this are the latest news.

I have learned plenty here at this wonderful site. Over the past few months the development of the Portal Dual have been slowing down and now to stop for various reasons. It does not seem that it will be feasible to continue development for the the time being. So I have decided to freely offer the software as open source (Incomplete), maybe others can continue developing something for the community.

However, am looking at the right venues for anyone who wishes to continue on the software development for this type of dual screen HMD's. I hope that out there are passionate coders that would like take the challenge and use what has been written so far and turn it into something that everyone can benefit, especially the VR enthusiast.

I hope to update you soon.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:25 pm

Hello Everyone,

Here is another update! I made a new thread in which I will be providing the Printing file for the version 3 of the Portal Dual!

Not only that, but I will be posting the printing files to VR cases for cellphones as well. I will be including three (3) model option for you to choose from.

Download thread: viewtopic.php?f=138&t=19441

Download Link: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:287148

I hope anyone make some use of them.

I am still figuring about how to post the software.

Cheers

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:52 pm

Here are some images of the latest Portal Dual Prototype, now free to download .

Download thread: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=19441

Download Link: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:287148

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:34 pm

Here is another update,

I have finally taken the time to upload the software and hardware files for the Portal Dual. The software was intended to fit the needs of Ultra Wide FOV HMD's. The Portal engine is an incomplete demo engine where you can import files and walk around an environment you need to design. It has the data to synchronize dual display with no noticeable performance issue.

The software is functional but it is not where it should be. The best case scenario is to perfect the visor side of the engine and make into a driver that can be then incorporated to other SDK's such Unity and UDK or any other SDK for that matter.
If not anyone can just take the current form of the engine and continue make it more robust, flexible and easy to use.

I cannot further development but I hope this can be useful to others that have the passion and ambition to help build from it.
The software can be adjusted to work on dual display or single ones, but imputing the proper resolution. I have a dedicated page where you can find the download files.

For the software side there are two things.

1. The Portal Engine= is the engine.

2. The Portal Visualizer= this is the source code.

If anybody wants, they can upload it in “Github” for everyone to keep track of the evolution of it.

Please let me know if anyone has any questions.
One thing to keep in mind is that I am not a software engineer, so I will answer the best to my knowledge

Link: http://hannibalj2.jimdo.com/

Any questions will be followed on this thread.

Cheers

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:04 am

A Note:

Just in case anyone is considering printing the Portal Dual, the case will require a relatively large 3D Printer.
The unit is made of 3 main pieces/components so not every printer will do the job.

The Cell Phone VR Cases should fit within most conventional 3D Printers.

Cheers

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:24 pm

I wonder if anyone here in the forum, could help upload the source software into Github?

It would be much appreciated.

Post by **Fredz** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:47 pm

What is the problem with uploading to Github ? You want some guidance or you're blocked from uploading there ?

Btw can you use the default color instead of green for your messages please ? It's not really nice on the eyes.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:54 pm

OK, I have edited the colors on the text. This should make it easier on the eyes.

Portal Dual was a collaboration of three individuals. One a designer, the other a modeler and a software engineer. I am not really all that knowledgeable about the Github process.

I figure it would be the best for for anyone wanting to make changes to the source. I am trying to make it as comfortable to the rest of the community as possible. However, I figure some members are more familiar with it than I am.

Post by **Fredz** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:04 pm

Hannibalj2 wrote:OK, I have edited the colors on the text. This should make it easier on the eyes.

Thanks.

Hannibalj2 wrote:I am not really all that knowledgeable about the Github process.

If you want you can create a Github account, give me the login/password and a zipfile of the source and I can put them there. And then you can change your password.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:42 pm

Thanks Fredz, I sent you the info.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:12 pm

Hello everyone,

Fredz was kind enough to upload the source code of the Portal Visualizer in Github.

Here is the link: https://github.com/PortalVR/portal-software-vr

Feel free to go there if you want do anything with the source code!

Thanks Fredz!