3DTV play : Nvidia announces support for all hdmi 1.4 3DTVs

[BlackShark]

info seen at the nvidia forums :
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... 596340.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nvidia will support all hdmi 1.4 3DTVs through their driver on any nvidia based PC equipped with an hdmi port (hdmi version not said in the press release, i guess hdmi1.4 spec through hdmi1.3 cable, like the Sony PS3)

Supported resolutions will be identical to the hdmi mandatory frame packing formats : 1080p24fps (BluRay) and 720p50fps / 720p60fps for games.

The product changes name and is called nvidia "3DTV play".
-if your TV uses the nvidia 3D Vision glasses, support is free (included with the nvidia glasses)
-if your TV does not use the nvidia 3D Vision glasses, you have to pay for driver support : the price is 40$

[Likay]

Could this maybe be a slight indication that other stereomodes could be in reach from nvidia @ same model? I personally don't mind paying 50$ to get an extra option to play with projectors in 3d. Dunno if everybody agrees though.

[ssiu]

It's always good to have more choice, but NVIDIA needs to support the optional 1080p formats!! It is ridiculous that Panasonic (and others) keep emphasizing "Full HD 3D" but 3D gaming is only 720p.

Otherwise just get a Samsung or others that support the "old computer 3D signals" -- I think 1080p checkerboard (half-resolution) is arguably better (more pixels for one thing) than 720p full-res, and iZ3D driver is free for ATI owners.

[BlackShark]

Well you can still game at 1080p... 24fps

[ssiu]

Well you can still game at 1080p... 24fps

Good one and the 3D TV will treat it as 3D Blu-Ray signal, and add artificial processing to interpolate ("smooth motion") and give the games a "cinematic effect" ... Don't know if I should laugh or cry ...

[cybereality]

This is great news. The one thing that made me write the Panasonic plasma off the list was dubious PC gaming support. Now, at least, Nvidia is officially on board. I would have to imagine that IZ3D and DDD will do this too but likely for ATI only. Still, its 720P only which is a joke at this point. I mean, 720P ain't horrible but its not great either. Its barely even more pixels than my Zalman "half-res" display can do. I could live with it though and maybe they could upgrade this at some point, I don't know. At least Nvidia is offering support, they didn't make the standard.

[DmitryKo]

I guess support for mandatory HDMI 1.4a formats is a good thing, but is's still proprietary software for use with NVidia 3D stereo driver only, not the industry-wide standard for full-resolution stereo gaming on the PC we are hoping for.

And hopefully AMD, DDD and iZ3D will work together to enable the same for ATI graphics cards.

NVIDIA needs to support the optional 1080p formats!!

This is not NVidia's call - the 3D TV makers first need to support the optional 1080p modes.

hdmi version not said in the press release, i guess hdmi1.4 spec through hdmi1.3 cable, like the Sony PS3

720p60 stereo can (at least theoretically) work even with HDMI 1.0 devices, since it uses the same bandwidth as 1080p60; it does require a quality high-speed cable though.

[ssiu]

NVIDIA needs to support the optional 1080p formats!!

This is not NVidia's call - the 3D TV makers first need to support the optional 1080p modes.

Well that's like the classic chicken-n-egg problem, but as experienced driver developer it should be almost trivial amount of work for NVIDIA to support those additional standard (well-defined, just optional) formats. Plus it is in NVIDIA's interest to do so -- higher resolution means users need more powerful / expensive NVIDIA cards. Once NVIDIA supports it then we can gripe to the TV manufacturers about their non-support and they won't have an easy excuse.

[DmitryKo]

I don't think it's a chicken-egg problem, it's purely a chicken problem. You can't program a device if you have no device in hand, even with well-defined specs.

[ssiu]

You can't program a device if you have no device in hand, even with well-defined specs.

I don't understand why not. I understand that you can't really test it, but I don't understand why you can't "program to specification". It's like just before the new 30" 2560x1600 LCD monitors coming out, I imagine the driver developer can start program for it (given the precise signal definition/specification) while waiting for a sample 30" monitor to test. Why can't NVIDIA program its driver to send out signal precisely according to the HDMI 1.4 3D spec?

Otherwise, the 3D HDTV manufacturers can also say "we can't support those optional HDMI 1.4a 3D 1080p formats -- yes we have the specification but we don't have input source signal to test", then how would it ever get supported?

Or like USB 3.0 -- I think NEC created the first controller according to spec, before any USB 3.0 hard disk exists. etc.

[cybereality]

As soon as companies realize the Full HD PC gaming support is a feature they can sell then someone will fill the niche.

[DmitryKo]

I understand that you can't really test it, but I don't understand why you can't "program to specification". ... Why can't NVIDIA program its driver to send out signal precisely according to the HDMI 1.4 3D spec?

They probably could program it, but they won't release it since they can't extensively test it on real-world devices and can't really guarantee it to work, in spite of how easy it is to implement. Why should they even bother when they have their own shutter glasses and a whole bunch of OEM agreements with LCD TV makers to serve the PC gaming?

the 3D HDTV manufacturers can also say "we can't support those optional HDMI 1.4a 3D 1080p formats -- yes we have the specification but we don't have input source signal to test", then how would it ever get supported?

This is exactly what they are doing. Don't you think they would use NVidia consumer cards for testing?

Even the best and latest testing intruments only support mandatory HDMI 1.4 3D formats and the supplied scripted tests do not include 1080p @ 120 Hz or 1080p60 frame packing format, side-by-side full and line alernative full.

http://www.quantumdata.com/apps/scripts/3D.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One can always program their own custom test though - the 3D test images are available for both 720p and 1080p in a handful of formats.

I think NEC created the first controller according to spec, before any USB 3.0 hard disk exists.

Do you imply they released the first tapeout version of the silicon? I'd guess they first performed extensive simulatiuons on the logical schemes even before the tapeout, and then performed extensive intrumental tests of the real silicon.

[3DReady]

I've just got the reply from Samsung. They claim that the 3DTV panels are designed to work @ 200Hz, and Blu-ray 3D standard is...well, just the Blu-ray 3D standard. Am I missing something?

[Likay]

There's a difference between the operational frequency of the panels and the transmissionprotocol. The refreshrate surely doesn't have to be connected. You can transmit an image a 5 fps and still show it in 200hz. It's a slideshow though. Same with hdmi: It has limitations especially at true hd resolutions (60Hz or 30?) but it isn't the same as what shutterfrequency the display uses.

[3DReady]

That's exactly what I thought. Ereyone is talking about the TV's being bad, but since they can operate @200Hz, the HDMI cable is to blame, and we don't even know that for sure? I'm going to test some HDTV's soon, and I'd like to test the whole 1080p@120Hz thing, if I figure out how to do this.

[Likay]

Oh. And to complicate this furthermore: 200Hz tv's accepts (for instance) 24Hz and displays them at 200Hz. However: if you feed those with 120fps it's far from sure that they're able to handle a pair of shutters@120Hz. Electronic lag and the technology itself could end this. Check compability first before buying. You can really get burned if just getting a 200Hz telly believing it's gonna works fine with 120Hz shutters.

[DmitryKo]

I've just got the reply from Samsung. They claim that the 3DTV panels are designed to work @ 200Hz

This tech support guy is a clear candidate for a Nobel Prize in physics.

The often cited 6 ms figure (which in theory allows for 166 Hz refresh) is way too optimistic - even with real-time compensation (overdrive), worst case transitions (between similar shades) can take over 20 ms.

I'd imagine 200/240 Hz TV sets actually involve special pixel addressing scheme, where the full picture is progressively updated in small steps, giving a sense of smoother motion.

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