2048x1536 PC Res Screen, Possible Oculus Rift upgrade?

[greymatr]

A hardware hacker by the name Emeryth has worked out how to connect an iPad Retina screen to a PC via a Display Port cable.

More information here: http://emerythacks.blogspot.com.au/2013 ... to-pc.html

He is running it at full 2048x1536 Resolution and it only cost him $55 for the screen.

Would it be possible to use a screen of this size, 9.7" as an Oculus Rift screen?

[Visual Knight]

With a 9.7" screen being close to your eyes and - because of it being at the same distance as the 5" screen your eyes would cut off unneeded pixels as with 5" your left with seeing 1024x1024 per eye- currently we are at 640x720 per eye- so It would be a little bit better- but also probably weigh more- and because of the unnecessary pixels- the size of the screen would be wasted for oculus to go that route- what about the Samsung Galaxy Mega's screen??

[Libertine]

Not sure about the usability but the connector source sure was interesting.

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/dat ... ECTORS.xml

[Visual Knight]

Since "Sharp" is apples new retina display vendor- I wonder if they are going to adapt eDisplayPort. LVDS is a pain whereas HDMI/DVI/Displayport have better backwards compatibility

[greymatr]

Well I was thinking a DIY upgrade until the consumer version comes out. The dev kit seems to be 216 PPI whereas the ipad screen is 264 PPI so hopefully that would help for the screen door effect as well as the extra pixels.

[blindboxes]

I had an idea of buying those HTC One X replacement screens on eBay/AliExpress or any other 1080p screens that are available on the market. You will need to learn how to wire the screens out, though. Also, I'm not sure if resampling would still occur if you have a 1080p screen hacked into it. It's bad if it does. Though, at least the screendoor effect is less.

Also, finding a 1080p screen that isn't labeled as a replacement part for a smartphone is nigh impossible.

[remosito]

Very encouraging development with eDP adoption.
Let's hope it will become the norm and with advent of bigger smartphones,phablets,smaller tablets options might increase a lot.

If next gen Ipad mini gets the retina treatment and eDP that would be sweet. 7.85 inch with same 2048x1536 resolution. More density and
less pixel loss due to oversize.

[NegativeCamber]

Well I was thinking a DIY upgrade until the consumer version comes out. The dev kit seems to be 216 PPI whereas the ipad screen is 264 PPI so hopefully that would help for the screen door effect as well as the extra pixels.

A 10" screen strapped to your face? Really?

Surely also if you are using the rift optics you still have to have the screen at the same distance, so yes you will get a slight increase in resolution but you're wasting the rest of the screen outside the designed view for the 7"?

I think you guys are better off waiting for the inevitable iPad mini screen and seeing if that could work.

Although it would be interesting as a POC.

[Hooves]

pretty big display to strap to your face. but I like where this is going

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uUsctp3CJA

[greymatr]

I forgot about the iPad mini screen. That's a really good idea, I hope it does use eDP too.

Edit: Oh.. it's only 1024x768? Were you talking about the iPad mini 2 rumoured retina screen?

[geekmaster]

With a 9.7" screen being close to your eyes and - because of it being at the same distance as the 5" screen your eyes would cut off unneeded pixels as with 5" your left with seeing 1024x1024 per eye- currently we are at 640x720 per eye- so It would be a little bit better- but also probably weigh more- and because of the unnecessary pixels- the size of the screen would be wasted for oculus to go that route- what about the Samsung Galaxy Mega's screen??

Well I was thinking a DIY upgrade until the consumer version comes out. The dev kit seems to be 216 PPI whereas the ipad screen is 264 PPI so hopefully that would help for the screen door effect as well as the extra pixels.

A 10" screen strapped to your face? Really?

Surely also if you are using the rift optics you still have to have the screen at the same distance, so yes you will get a slight increase in resolution but you're wasting the rest of the screen outside the designed view for the 7"?

I think you guys are better off waiting for the inevitable iPad mini screen and seeing if that could work.

Although it would be interesting as a POC.

Wouldn't it be a bit silly to use the Rift optics (that already cannot see all the pixels) on a larger screen?

Obviously, an HMD based on a 9.7-inch screen would use optics with less magnification, covering the same FoV but giving you more pixels per degree. With an HMD, "Pixels Per Degree" is all that matters to maximize image quality (and minimum pixel switching time and minimum latency for maximum motion quality).

The only wasted pixels on the Retina display come from a 4x3 aspect ratio, making the
portrait mode" view per eye even taller than RiftDK after lens magnification. You could squeeze this height down to make all of the pixels visible (except the corners) by using anamorphic lenses.

Again, what would make anybody think they would use RiftDK lenses designed for a smaller display on something like a Retina-based Rift-style HMD?

And the 9.7-inch diagonal screen is only 1.7-inch larger diagonally than the RiftDK, which equates to less than 1/2-inch added to each side of the display. The RiftDK enclosure already has a couple of mm (or more) margin around the screen (for mounting hardware, so a slightly different mounting design could make the increased case dimensions negligible. Weight is all that really matters here, and the increased weight would also not be significant compared to the weight of the case (which could be reduced to compensate).

[MSat]

Better off waiting for the next wave of 7" tablets with full-HD resolution which should be just around the corner.

[Pingles]

Wouldn't any change in resolution require all new drivers? Isn't that why we don't have Doom3?

By the time it all got worked out Oculus would be releasing DevKit2 and you'd be starting all over again.

[Mind]

Wouldn't any change in resolution require all new drivers? Isn't that why we don't have Doom3?

By the time it all got worked out Oculus would be releasing DevKit2 and you'd be starting all over again.

No. There was no SDK in the time John implemented the pre-rift in doom3. So he "hardcoded" the transformations in doom3.
I didn't look in the SDK but there should be a mechanism to get the right transformation matrix for your HMD. When you implement your software right, you use the matrix you get and don't care what it look like.

[geekmaster]

I just received my two iPad3 panels that I purchase from AssetGenie for $67 each. They came in a box, wrapped in about 10 meters of bubble wrap! Anyway, now I am waiting for my connectors from Newark/element14.

I just opened one, and I can see that it has little scuffs and scratches on the surface (nothing serious) so apparently these are pulls from dead iPads, or something. The second one has a much cleaner screen, but still some tiny scratches in one corner that are hard to find. They should be fine when mounted in an HMD.

When my cheaper unit from Hong Kong arrives, I will see whether is is a pull, or a new unit.

Even with the aluminum back plate on this, it is extremely thin, and my digital scale says that it weighs 136 grams. So, for comparison, what is the weight of the the RiftDK LCD panel?

These are very black. When shining light directly off the front surface, I can see that they both have "4504T" printed on them (probably visible on the screen when they are in use). I will try using alcohol to remove that later.

If I decide the little scratches are annoying me, I may try to polish them out:

[greymatr]

I'm glad to hear someone is taking a chance on the iPad screens. I'd love to hear how you go Geekmaster, please keep us updated.

[KingK76]

With a 9.7" screen being close to your eyes and - because of it being at the same distance as the 5" screen your eyes would cut off unneeded pixels as with 5" your left with seeing 1024x1024 per eye- currently we are at 640x720 per eye- so It would be a little bit better- but also probably weigh more- and because of the unnecessary pixels- the size of the screen would be wasted for oculus to go that route- what about the Samsung Galaxy Mega's screen??

Well I was thinking a DIY upgrade until the consumer version comes out. The dev kit seems to be 216 PPI whereas the ipad screen is 264 PPI so hopefully that would help for the screen door effect as well as the extra pixels.

A 10" screen strapped to your face? Really?

Surely also if you are using the rift optics you still have to have the screen at the same distance, so yes you will get a slight increase in resolution but you're wasting the rest of the screen outside the designed view for the 7"?

I think you guys are better off waiting for the inevitable iPad mini screen and seeing if that could work.

Although it would be interesting as a POC.

Wouldn't it be a bit silly to use the Rift optics (that already cannot see all the pixels) on a larger screen?

Obviously, an HMD based on a 9.7-inch screen would use optics with less magnification, covering the same FoV but giving you more pixels per degree. With an HMD, "Pixels Per Degree" is all that matters to maximize image quality (and minimum pixel switching time and minimum latency for maximum motion quality).

The only wasted pixels on the Retina display come from a 4x3 aspect ratio, making the
portrait mode" view per eye even taller than RiftDK after lens magnification. You could squeeze this height down to make all of the pixels visible (except the corners) by using anamorphic lenses.

Again, what would make anybody think they would use RiftDK lenses designed for a smaller display on something like a Retina-based Rift-style HMD?

And the 9.7-inch diagonal screen is only 1.7-inch larger diagonally than the RiftDK, which equates to less than 1/2-inch added to each side of the display. The RiftDK enclosure already has a couple of mm (or more) margin around the screen (for mounting hardware, so a slightly different mounting design could make the increased case dimensions negligible. Weight is all that really matters here, and the increased weight would also not be significant compared to the weight of the case (which could be reduced to compensate).

Sorry I am going to quote from what I wrote in the Oculus Forums... Could you not just use a resolution of 2048x1280 (16:10) and not have it stretch (no scaling) the image but black out the top and bottom as to use a 16:10 aspect ratio that would be more in line with the Rift Dev Kit specs. Perhaps allowing the top and bottom of the screen to stick out of the HMD enclosure. At least that would give us a 1024x1280 resolution per eye (up from the 640x800 offered by the Dev kit Rift). It would look like crap from the outside but the view from inside would get much better! That would be going from 512,000 pixels per eye for the current Rift to 1,310,720 pixels per eye for the new "Retina Display Rift"! Not bad for a $80 or so mod!

[LukePoga]

Sorry I am going to quote from what I wrote in the Oculus Forums... Could you not just use a resolution of 2048x1280 (16:10) and not have it stretch (no scaling) the image but black out the top and bottom as to use a 16:10 aspect ratio that would be more in line with the Rift Dev Kit specs. Perhaps allowing the top and bottom of the screen to stick out of the HMD enclosure. At least that would give us a 1024x1280 resolution per eye (up from the 640x800 offered by the Dev kit Rift). It would look like crap from the outside but the view from inside would get much better! That would be going from 512,000 pixels per eye for the current Rift to 1,310,720 pixels per eye for the new "Retina Display Rift"! Not bad for a $80 or so mod!

If you take a 9.7" 2048 x 1536 screen, converted it to 16:10 aspect as per the rift, you end up with a 9.15" screen at 1024 x 1280 per eye, as you stated.

sounds like a decent idea. need to leave it to the implementationalists here to do calculations on fov and pixels per degree. and how it works in relation to existing lenses etc.

HERE IS ANOTHER IDEA:

you can make a 7" 16:10 screen out of the iPad screen. it will have a resolution of 784 x 979 per eye. This is pretty damn good anyway. if this is the case it SHOULD be a drop in replacement yes? and it may have a nicer pixel layout to avoid screen door.

[geekmaster]

Sorry I am going to quote from what I wrote in the Oculus Forums... Could you not just use a resolution of 2048x1280 (16:10) and not have it stretch (no scaling) the image but black out the top and bottom as to use a 16:10 aspect ratio that would be more in line with the Rift Dev Kit specs. Perhaps allowing the top and bottom of the screen to stick out of the HMD enclosure. At least that would give us a 1024x1280 resolution per eye (up from the 640x800 offered by the Dev kit Rift). It would look like crap from the outside but the view from inside would get much better! That would be going from 512,000 pixels per eye for the current Rift to 1,310,720 pixels per eye for the new "Retina Display Rift"! Not bad for a $80 or so mod!

That is an excellent idea! It is a great place to start for a first experiment if you do not already have a collection of optics and construction foam, and you do not mind disassembling your RiftDK. I have those things though, so I plan to just build a simple Rift-like HMD using them.

With round lenses, if you select a magnification and offset that hides the borders of your display, you will see the same number of pixels vertically as you do horizontally (1024x1024 or less), so there is no reason to have the non-visible portions of the display inside the RiftDK frustrum (truncated pyramid) shaped portion of its shell.

However, I plan to use non-radial optics (such as anamorphic lens and/or offset fresnel lens stacks) in my experimental setup, so that the vertical dimension of the iPad3 display will be compressed, allowing all the pixels to be visible (except the corners). Such non-radial optics will require custom pre-warp of the image in order to display correct geometry in virtual space (or you can just alter the geometry of your rendered models so that you can have pixel-perfect images without pre-warp "pixel smearing").

[geekmaster]

... HERE IS ANOTHER IDEA:

you can make a 7" 16:10 screen out of the iPad screen. it will have a resolution of 784 x 979 per eye. This is pretty damn good anyway. if this is the case it SHOULD be a drop in replacement yes? and it may have a nicer pixel layout to avoid screen door.

Also an excellent idea! And easier to implement because you can use the existing RiftDK optics and just ignore any pixels that you cannot see. You only take advantage of the increased pixel density, but that alone will be a significant improvement.

Now, when will my connectors arrive so I can try this?

[KingK76]

That is an excellent idea! It is a great place to start for a first experiment if you do not already have a collection of optics and construction foam, and you do not mind disassembling your RiftDK. I have those things though, so I plan to just build a simple Rift-like HMD using them.

With round lenses, if you select a magnification and offset that hides the borders of your display, you will see the same number of pixels vertically as you do horizontally (1024x1024 or less), so there is no reason to have the non-visible portions of the display inside the RiftDK frustrum (truncated pyramid) shaped portion of its shell.

However, I plan to use non-radial optics (such as anamorphic lens and/or offset fresnel lens stacks) in my experimental setup, so that the vertical dimension of the iPad3 display will be compressed, allowing all the pixels to be visible (except the corners). Such non-radial optics will require custom pre-warp of the image in order to display correct geometry in virtual space (or you can just alter the geometry of your rendered models so that you can have pixel-perfect images without pre-warp "pixel smearing").

My Rift should be showing up 1st or 2nd week of May so in the mean time I am going to order one of those Retina displays (do you recommend which one I should order?) and the connector and start my tinkering there. I am very new to all of this (not the modding aspects however just VR) so unfortunatly I don't have any of the supplies you mention off-hand. It sounds like you really know your stuff so I will be following your results closely. Thanks for the advice and good luck going forward!

[geekmaster]

My Rift should be showing up 1st or 2nd week of May so in the mean time I am going to order one of those Retina displays (do you recommend which one I should order?) and the connector and start my tinkering there. I am very new to all of this (not the modding aspects however just VR) so unfortunatly I don't have any of the supplies you mention off-hand. It sounds like you really know your stuff so I will be following your results closely. Thanks for the advice and good luck going forward!

The displays from Hong Kong are only $56 with free shipping, but could take many weeks to arrive. I will let you know when I receive mine.

The displays I purchased from AssetGenie cost $76 each (plus $10 shipping, or $11 for two), but arrived in two days. It is your choice. However, I did not receive my connectors yet, so getting my displays in two days did not help me much, other than being able to inspect them and report my results here.

I know "other people's stuff" too.

[Visual Knight]

The displays I purchased from AssetGenie cost $76 each (plus $10 shipping, or $11 for two), but arrived in two days. It is your choice. However, I did not receive my connectors yet, so getting my displays in two days did not help me much, other than being able to inspect them and report my results here.

I know "other people's stuff" too.

How do you avoid chromatic abrasion. In my experience with taking photos and video this appears to be more of a problem with anamorphic optics.

[Drewbdoo]

I've seen your posts in a few threads about your ipad3 screen build, geekmaster, and I'm very interested in it. Will you start a new thread with your build info when you get ready, because I'd love to follow it.

[KingK76]

My Rift should be showing up 1st or 2nd week of May so in the mean time I am going to order one of those Retina displays (do you recommend which one I should order?) and the connector and start my tinkering there. I am very new to all of this (not the modding aspects however just VR) so unfortunatly I don't have any of the supplies you mention off-hand. It sounds like you really know your stuff so I will be following your results closely. Thanks for the advice and good luck going forward!

The displays from Hong Kong are only $56 with free shipping, but could take many weeks to arrive. I will let you know when I receive mine.

The displays I purchased from AssetGenie cost $76 each (plus $10 shipping, or $11 for two), but arrived in two days. It is your choice. However, I did not receive my connectors yet, so getting my displays in two days did not help me much, other than being able to inspect them and report my results here.

I know "other people's stuff" too.

Thanks for the info! I tried going to assetgenie.com to find the Retina display we have been talking about but I seem to be having some difficulties in finding it. Is there a certain part of the site I am supposed to be looking in? I tried all options I could find but alas to no avail... If you could help me with this I would greatly appreciate it. Oh and by the way... say I were to to try the panel at the resolution (non-stretched 2048x1280 16:10) we discussed before and mounted the display slightly further back then stock. What spec lenses would you recommend I go with? Actually I'm quite sure you will have your parts before me to experiment with so I'll just wait and see on what your findings are.

[geekmaster]

The displays I purchased from AssetGenie cost $76 each (plus $10 shipping, or $11 for two), but arrived in two days. It is your choice. However, I did not receive my connectors yet, so getting my displays in two days did not help me much, other than being able to inspect them and report my results here.

I know "other people's stuff" too.

How do you avoid chromatic abrasion. In my experience with taking photos and video this appears to be more of a problem with anamorphic optics.

Chromatic "abrasion" has a tendency to rub off all the color, leaving you with nothing but black and white, doesn't it?

But seriously, chromatic aberration can be corrected in software, but pre-warping each subpixel color channel separately with slightly different lens distortion correction coefficients. In fast, the latest OculusVR SDK (release today) does an EXCELLENT job of chromatic aberration correction.

Anamorphic lenses would just require adjustments to the lens distortion correction forumulas.

[Lilwolf]

I wonder if a kickstarter would succeed that had an plastic adapter for the end of the rift that would hold one of these, and extend it out an inch or so (to get the whole screen in the field of vision expected by the current optics).

Or we could wait for the consumer version. (didn't they announce they wanted it by the end of the year?).

[spire8989]

I wonder if a kickstarter would succeed that had an plastic adapter for the end of the rift that would hold one of these, and extend it out an inch or so (to get the whole screen in the field of vision expected by the current optics).

Or we could wait for the consumer version. (didn't they announce they wanted it by the end of the year?).

Consumer version isn't coming this year. No way. Maybe a second version of the devkit with positional tracking and a better screen though.

[Machinima]

I wonder if a kickstarter would succeed that had an plastic adapter for the end of the rift that would hold one of these, and extend it out an inch or so (to get the whole screen in the field of vision expected by the current optics).

Or we could wait for the consumer version. (didn't they announce they wanted it by the end of the year?).

My guess for earliest consumer release is Q3-Q4 next year. I'll eat my hat if its sooner.

[LukePoga]

Q4 next year at earliest. they have to arrange marketing and distribution. this is a big job in itself even if the rift were ready now.

[geekmaster]

My iPad3 connectors just arrived. Man, are they tiny! No way I could hand-solder to that. I will have to make a PCB like in the hackaday article. They do plug into the iPad3 LCD ribbon cable fine, so at least they are confirmed as the correct part.

[mickman]

Interesting footage of the iPad Rift... that vid does not use head tracking though.. does it ?

[greymatr]

It probably uses the internal gyroscope, accelerometer and compass of the iPad to achieve its own kind of head tracking, you can see that the view does change as he first picks it up and moves the iPad around.

[mhe]

I'd suggest this display for the Rift if I had anything to say about the issue. Perhaps this is the kind of technology that will be in the final consumer version. One can always hope.

[zella]

Thats probably the tenth time someone has mentioned that display, were talking about a functional upgrade that we can do as soon as we get our rifts, not about some one of pre production display model that isnt available

[mhe]

I have yet to see a currently available display that does not exceed the already enlarged 7" screen in physical size and give a significantly higher pixel count than the already existing 1280x800 panel. So FullHD in about 5.5 inch would be a nice upgrade, but when you consider this would result in 960x1080 per eye, a 50% horizontal increase and a 35% increase vertically. Not bad of course. But given that people seem to look for a drop-in replacement that is already available, I think that would mean it would have to be compatible with the current display controller.

Also, there are some FullHD smartphone screens in usable sizes out there, but as you say yourself - availability is not optional. So that leaves us with panels that are 1.) the right size 2.) higher in resolution than the current panel and 3.) low enough in demand that they are available as standalone parts for hobbyists. Spare parts for existing high-end commercial products are the only way to go considering this.

So, yes, you're right - we would like to see a higher resolution panel to build into the Rifts. But I'd be surprised if they are available as spare parts for Rift modders at acceptable availability rates before Oculus comes out with the next version of the dev kit. Of course, modding should continue by all means as there are really great innovations and ideas coming from the modding community in basically every area of tech, but given the fact Oculus is driven by one of the premier enthusiasts in the field (and of course many of his very bright colleagues), I wouldn't count on getting our fingers on a significantly better display panel before he does.

[remosito]

My iPad3 connectors just arrived. Man, are they tiny! No way I could hand-solder to that. I will have to make a PCB like in the hackaday article. They do plug into the iPad3 LCD ribbon cable fine, so at least they are confirmed as the correct part.

Hi geek master,

curious about your progress with the ipad screen. PCB posing any troubles?

greetings

[Parallaxis]

Galaxy Note 3 has a 5.99" 1080p display. Perfect size for Dev. kit 2.

http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/04/29/samsu ... gb-of-ram/

[mattyeatsmatts]

Galaxy Note 3 has a 5.99" 1080p display. Perfect size for Dev. kit 2.

http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/04/29/samsu ... gb-of-ram/

Came here to post that but u beat me and if true it does sound perfect

[remosito]

Galaxy Note 3 has a 5.99" 1080p display. Perfect size for Dev. kit 2.

http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/04/29/samsu ... gb-of-ram/

As far as I know nobody has managed yet to hook up any Samsung phone/phablet/tablet screen to date.
A screen you cant connect might just as well not exist for all practical purposes!