Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMAGES]

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Jose
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Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMAGES]

Post by Jose »

Image

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I broke down my DIY rift prototype and took the 5x pocket loupe lenses and attached them to my Rift devkit using tape.

The lenses were not removed from the black holders. The white circle around the lenses are ~1mm thick double sided foam mounting tape that is used as padding so that it will "grip" the "eyecup teeth holes" which prevents the lenses from wiggling around. Then I used black electrical tape to keep it attached to the rift enclosure.

The experience is much better. I can get a slightly bigger FOV than the stock lenses while also keeping the lenses further away from my eyes, so they're no longer smooshed into my eyeballs. The lenses generally stay cleaner too, since there's no rubbing against my eyelashes and eyelids.

The image seems sharper. I don't know if it's because of the lenses, or if because the increased FOV allows me to see more of the screen.

I've only used these lenses with the oculus world demo. Had to change eye distance and warp parameters.

All comments welcome.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by Paladia »

Would you recommend Oculus to switch out the official lenses for the ones you are using instead for the consumer version?
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by evolvedant »

Please post the parameters you used (eye distance, k1,2,3,4, etc). I have the Rift, and I also have 2 5x 2inch aspherical loupe lens on hand. It should be easy for me to try something similair to your setup real quick.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by marbas »

Cool! Good job man.

So, how much FOV increase do you get with these lenses?
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by MSat »

Do you see the inside screen divider with these lenses?
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by PalmerTech »

Those 5x lenses you are using have a much longer focal length than the Rift lenses. If you are mounting them at the same screen to lens distance as the stock optics, then your eyes are having to focus a lot closer than infinity. It might work if you are nearsighted, but it will cause eyestrain in a lot of people.
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Jose
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by Jose »

@Paladia
No. I'm sure Oculus can come up with something better. For now, I really like these lenses. If, through their store, they offered similar lenses properly glued to an eyecup, I would buy those.

@evolvedant
I didn't save my settings, but I just tried it again and the only thing I had to do was lower the eye distance and in-game fov. The warping on the edges aren't as bad as I remembered.

@marbas
I don't know how to measure fov so I can't give a definite answer. Subjectively though, it's noticeably higher, and I tested this by putting on the stock lenses, looking as far to the left and right as I can, remembering where the images end, putting on the 5x lenses, looking as far to the left and right as I can and noticing that the images extend further.

@MSat
Yes I can see the screen divider. But when I'm "in the game" I don't notice it at all.

@PalmerTech
Thanks! The lenses are probably mounted too close to the screen for most people. I'm a C-cup user, and I do feel a little strain with these 5x lenses. But I really enjoy the added fov and eye-to-lens distance. Can you share why you chose the smaller diameter optics for the devkits?
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by PalmerTech »

Jose wrote:@PalmerTech
Thanks! The lenses are probably mounted too close to the screen for most people. I'm a C-cup user, and I do feel a little strain with these 5x lenses. But I really enjoy the added fov and eye-to-lens distance. Can you share why you chose the smaller diameter optics for the devkits?
Gotcha, I assumed you were probably nearsighted. Someone with normal vision would have a hard time using those lenses! It might be worth mentioning that in your thread on the Oculus forum.

The problem with these lower magnification optics is that for a normal view, the lenses need to be way, way further out. They would not even be wearable on the current design, and the dev kit would have needed modifications that made it stick out even further from the face, increasing inertial strain and weight problems. In addition, hiding the divider as much as possible is desirable. I know you don't see it much in your short-sighted configuration, but if you pull the lenses back far enough to focus at infinity, the border is very visible and distracting.

Optics are all about tradeoffs!
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by MSat »

Would there have been any benefit to using optics with similar properties to those that come with the Rift but with a larger diameter?
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by PalmerTech »

The optics in the Rift are at the limits of what you can do with conventional acrylic lens technology. Making larger lenses with similar magnification is not practical at this point in time.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by zalo »

Perhaps this is where fresnel lenses rise in relevance?

I did notice a little more eye-strain with my lenses, but I figure this is a byproduct of my poor workmanship and improper custom optics more than anything else (near-sighted here as well).

Weight, shaping, stacking, etc. are all superior to acrylic. Has Oculus looked into custom fresnel lens manufacturing? You could probably fit a whole slew of different strengths on one mold (and maybe even pay for only half a mold since the backsides are always flat). Maybe even remove the need for software distortion with LEEP and frensels (even though this is the Rift's primary innovation).
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by 3dvison »

This is why I can't wait to get my Dev.Rift.
I built a Diy Rift with 3inch lenses because I did not like the looking through tubes feeling with even the 2inch 5x lenses.
But I do know what Palmer is talking about with the boarder and larger lenses, I FEEl ITS PRESNETS..LOL

I think like he said, all in all, I will like the trad-off of the smaller Dev Kit lenses without the boarder being seen/felt as much.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by pizzy00 »

I wonder if a simple test graphic can be made to see if more pixels on the panel are actually being used vs stock lens, like a marked test grid. Also do the larger lens hit the bridge of your nose? Another lens mod thread on this forum mentions similar info.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by MrGreen »

So basically... The future belongs to nearsighted people! Why did I get laser surgery!? :lol:
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by budda »

Hi,

I appreciate the frankness of Palmer's comments with respect to the focal length of the default Oculus Rift optics.

The optics in the Rift are at the limits of what you can do with conventional acrylic lens technology. Making larger lenses with similar magnification is not practical at this point in time.

The problem with these lower magnification optics is that for a normal view, the lenses need to be way, way further out. They would not even be wearable on the current design, and the dev kit would have needed modifications that made it stick out even further from the face, increasing inertial strain and weight problems. In addition, hiding the divider as much as possible is desirable. I know you don't see it much in your short-sighted configuration, but if you pull the lenses back far enough to focus at infinity, the border is very visible and distracting.

Optics are all about tradeoffs!
It does not make much sense to me to save a few centimetres in length for a Head Mounted Display by shortening the optical path to an extreme degree.

To me, it is a bad tradeoff to remove the optical design flexibility that an increased focal length can give you. Whilst the Oculus Rift design pushes the magnification required for the optics, surely lenses with higher magnification than 5x (or a focal length of 50mm) is going to be problematic.

Whats needed is a momma bear approach - not too little magnification that limits field of view and increases the overall length of the device, but not too much magnification that physically cramps the optics, and makes any user adjustment or modification complicated or impossible.

Lenses with a focal length between 50mm to 90mm (+20 to +11 powers) would probably be in the best range of design utility for Rift type head mounted display optics.

I may stand corrected, but I think the Rift optics may already be overmagnified. It may be preferable to have a lower magnification overall but with the magnification more evenly spread over the viewing field - that is, with less distortion.


Thanks.
Last edited by budda on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by 2EyeGuy »

Well, it looks like the C-Cups can be improved. Which is great news to me.
I can understand why Oculus didn't focus on optimising the extra lenses for short-sighted people, because they aren't the primary market and it's a last minute feature. But well done improving them.

Does it make it heavier though?

I would have thought you would want to make the divider visible (but black) in a partial-overlap HMD. Otherwise aren't you wasting part of the resolution on the other side?
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by TheHolyChicken »

pizzy00 wrote:I wonder if a simple test graphic can be made to see if more pixels on the panel are actually being used vs stock lens, like a marked test grid. Also do the larger lens hit the bridge of your nose? Another lens mod thread on this forum mentions similar info.
With these DIY Rifts, I would be very VERY interested to see TF2 info - the game provides a configuration utility that calibrates what's shown on the screen. Some before and after screenshots of the (monitor) image would be intriguing.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by Marcel »

PalmerTech wrote:The optics in the Rift are at the limits of what you can do with conventional acrylic lens technology. Making larger lenses with similar magnification is not practical at this point in time.
How about glass lenses? I can get a decent pair of eye glasses for under 50$ nowadays. That includes the frame, cutting and fitting the lenses in the frame, the overhead for the shop, etc. That makes me think a plain glass lens should not cost more than a few dollars. Glass might also have lower Chromatic Abberation and better sharpness in the corners as well.

I'm sure it's all complicated, but bigger lenses would be nice. With the B-Cups, I can see the circles of the edge of the lenses. Strangely enough this does not bother me at all in the Tuscany demo, but in the Torque engine 'Rift Valley' demo it's more distracting. (I guess because there is less to see, so you pay more attention to whole image). You guys did a really good job with the Tuscany demo, from the things I've tested it's still the most impressive experience.
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Re: Increase FOV and eye relief with 2" diameter lenses [IMA

Post by remosito »

PalmerTech wrote:The optics in the Rift are at the limits of what you can do with conventional acrylic lens technology. Making larger lenses with similar magnification is not practical at this point in time.
Is the refractive index the limiting property of the material? It usually is with anything lens related. Though Abbe value is to a lesser degree as well. Have you ever made any calculations/tests how much could be gained in terms of FoV, weight, eye-lens-display distances, lens diameter by using lets say Zeiss lantal? Or does that one's low Abbe Value introduce to much chromatic abberations?
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