My homebrew Tuscany Hydra demo

Post by **tbowren** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:05 pm

We put together 2 videos today showing the hyrda mounted to the top strap of the Rift to get positional tracking. I also got it working in Ogre3d, but I felt using the tuscany demo would be more appealing. I think of that demo as something that might go down in history as the VR's version of the teapot, so its a fun arena to add things too. If I don't get too distracted with other stuff I have an idea to make a simple Plant's VRsus Zombies game with that environment. Both video's kinda show the same stuff, but after my son's first video on the Rift showed up on Reddit, he wanted to do another one without his siblings. Right now I really hacked support into the demo just to see how it would feel. I will happily share all the steps required to get the hydra working with the rift, you just need to be able to compile the c++ samples from both the Oculus and Sixense SDKs. If you can do that, you can merge the two its only took and hour or less put this demo together.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj6ERrbovBw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQK48duvld0[/youtube]

Post by **boone188** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:13 pm

Very cool! Actually peaking around corners!!! Now if you had the other controller set up as a gun.. My hydra just arrived. Now I just need a Rift.

Post by **geekmaster** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:13 pm

Sweet! Can you upload your demo somewhere so we can play with it?

Post by **zalo** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:15 pm

Huh, I actually really like this solution. That over-the-head strap is pretty useful now!

After playing around the with the vanilla Hydra Unity Integration (ported to work with the Tuscany demo), I find I'm usually only using one of my hands to interact with things, so I don't mind giving one of my hands up for positional tracking.

Post by **ChrisJD** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:21 pm

tbowren wrote:Right now I really hacked support into the demo just to see how it would feel.

And how does it feel? From a grown-up's perspective.

Is it a viable way to do positional tracking in a seated situation?

Post by **tbowren** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:30 pm

I think it works extremely well. I have been getting pretty motion sick from all my demo testing so I was very keen to see how much this was due to lack of positional tracking. For sure adding the tracking made a huge difference, especially when going from standing to sitting. It will be GREAT for seated rifting because that's all the range the hydra will support cleanly if you keep the base stationary.
If I can get the collisions working again with the hydra motion I will put the exe up, assuming I am allowed to distribute that. I don't want to break any distribution rules.

Post by **Drewbdoo** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:47 pm

Just want to say that your demo videos are the best. The pure reactions of the kids are better than any 20 something dev with his mouth open. I love the fast work you've done and zomg - tuscany zombies? I eagerly await this. I haven't thought about it, but a COD zombie game would be amazing. Cover the windows! Cover the upstairs balcony! GO!

Post by **boone188** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:50 pm

Hmmm...the board+sensor inside the controller is actually pretty small (http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=14036). Perhaps I will be attaching one of these to my rift.

Post by **jayoh** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:10 pm

very clever! please share the file when you can. I'd love to battle incoming zombies from the tuscany house... who wouldn't?

Post by **brantlew** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:18 pm

Just a friendly reminder to make sure with kids to measure and adjust the IPD in software (or via shortcut keys in Tuscany). All of us adults can get away with the default 64 mm IPD, but we would hate to strain the eyes of the younger users. Cool demo by the way.

Post by **lmimmfn** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:23 pm

Great work, thats one of the things that seriously reduces the immersion of the rift, but your hack adds so much more to it. Also, its cute having your kids demo it as was said as opposed to some techie freak lol. Keep up the good work, please upload your demo or at least let people know how you did it do we can all have a whirl( grrr, when some of us get our rifts ).

Post by **Fredrum** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Very cool.

So do you get actual real position data from the hydra?
I mean, as opposed to acceleration based approximation? (if you know what I meeaan)

Cheers
Fred

Post by **J. h4t3d** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:24 pm

You just have to integrate the hydra an then attach the controller to the camera/RiftPrefab.

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:35 pm

@tbowren: Nice work man!

@Fredrum: The Hydra uses magnetic tracking to obtain the position from the base station.

Post by **Fredrum** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:44 pm

cybereality wrote:@tbowren: Nice work man!

@Fredrum: The Hydra uses magnetic tracking to obtain the position from the base station.

I suppose what I am wondering is, is the data accurate is it 1:1 for your movements and without slippage or drift?

Cheers
Fred

Post by **pizzy00** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:06 pm

I can't wait to try this!!! Great job.

I receive my Hydra next Monday or Tuesday next week.

I like strapping it to the back of your head it might actual offset some weight from the Rift.

I do not know how to compile the sdk's. Can you point me to a guide? I should learn how to do it. Maybe someone who knows could share the love with a build. I hope the devs of MUSEUM OF THE MICROSTAR demo add your positional tracking Hydra support to their demo.

Post by **Mark2036** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:10 pm

Ducking? Leaning? Looking around corner?..WOW

Color me impressed.

@tbowren how is the lag with the positional tracking? Noticeable? From your kids reactions it appears it works as good as reality.

What's the limit/range of the hydra tracking?

Post by **Chrysophrase** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:18 am

/me heads off to use that coupon to buy a hydra... *sigh*

Post by **play2lose** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:25 am

Wow, looks really great. In the video it looks completely accurate, but when you're in the Rift does it actually feel like that? Like the amount you're moving back and forth does it match up for your eyes?

Also, this technology seems like it would be easy to incorporate into the rift. Put the tracking chip from the hydra controller into the rift itself...and use the Rift's breakout box to house the magnetic base part.

Post by **braddas** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:30 am

That part where he leans out the window is too cool. It hadn't really occurred to me how much positional tracking adds to immersion. Impressive work!

Post by **Laserschwert** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:41 am

Chrysophrase wrote:/me heads off to use that coupon to buy a hydra... *sigh*

Same here... damn.

Post by **gjpetch** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:44 am

So cool, I ordered a razer hydra just after watching your video.

Post by **Parallaxis** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:24 am

As I stated before I really think magnetic field is the way to go for positional tracking.

Now we just wait for Oculus to build the magnetic field generator into the control box. With different frequencies it should be doable to have both hand controls and positional tracking build into the HMD. Hydra is almost 6 years old, think about how precise and how little lag an updated version would have today.

My bet is that Sixence and Oculus is working together right now on this type of thing.

Post by **TheHolyChicken** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:29 am

Really nice. I imagine that, even though the Hydra isn't as accurate as we'd like, it's much better to have rudimentary positional tracking than no positional tracking.

Post by **Dnhkng** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:35 am

After looking at the Hydra teardown thread, it looks like the buttons and joystick are on a separate board than the magnetic tracker. That would seem to mean a quick hardware hack could be to move the main tracking board to a small box attached to the Rift headband, and keep the buttons/joystick board in the handgrip. Then you could still use both hands; one for moving around with a joystick, and the other tracked for gun control.

Post by **mattyeatsmatts** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:37 am

that worked a lot better than what Carmack was saying, so glad i bought a hydra now

Post by **3dcoffee** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:40 am

tbowren wrote:We put together 2 videos today showing the hyrda mounted to the top strap of the Rift to get positional tracking. I also got it working in Ogre3d, but I felt using the tuscany demo would be more appealing.(...)

You, sir, just cost me 65 british pounds. I just have to buy a Hydra now. Nothing else yet has compelled me to do so. I will anxiously wait for your final solution and for my gear to arrive.

Post by **Aabel** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:50 am

Awesome work! a little tentative about adding another cord to a device strapped to my head but I'll do it anyway!

Are you doing any kind of sensor fusion with the positional data from the Hydra?

Post by **LordJuanlo** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:57 am

This is so brilliant... absolutely amazing. The consumer version needs an equivalent to the Hydra for this. Meanwhile, it would be great it the SDK could implement hooks for using third party devices in this way.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:04 am

@ tbowren: that looks great! I've been saying for a long time that the Hydra is one of the best trackers we have available at consumer prices.

One thing though, John Carmack said that the Hydra wasn't accurate enough for reliable and quick head tracking. Are you using the Rift gyro for orientation data and the Hydra just for the translational data? If not, do you notice much latency and accuracy difference vs the Rift gyro?

@ Dnhkng: theres a Hydra teardown thread around that has some info about ways to modify your Hydra.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... tor#p82382

Post by **Laserschwert** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:19 am

WiredEarp wrote:One thing though, John Carmack said that the Hydra wasn't accurate enough for reliable and quick head tracking. Are you using the Rift gyro for orientation data and the Hydra just for the translational data? If not, do you notice much latency and accuracy difference vs the Rift gyro?

Of course he's using the Hydra just for positional tracking, everything else would be stupid... you've got a friggin' Rift, for crying out loud!

Post by **martinP** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:39 am

@ tbowren, very effective. I have two questions:
Are you filtering (smoothing) the positional data from hydra? If yes, is the resulting translation lag noticeable? If not is the noise in the positional data noticeable?
Are you taking into account difference between the Hydra position center and the Rift reported rotations center when computing the total view transformation?

Post by **rupy** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:46 am

Ok, that's IT!!!

Now buy another hydra and mix the two hydra demos: one hydra on the head and one in each hand!!!

Oculus will probably release a magnetic tracker that you attach behind your head like that in a couple of months with USB...

Then it will all be wireless in the consumer version and boy those wiimote accidents are going to look like a walk in the park!

Post by **PatimPatam** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:50 am

Very cool, looks like in the end we will have an easier way to hack-in positional tracking than my wacky approach.

So all that sensor fusion talk was not so complex in the end.. get orientation from IMU + get position from Hydra, done!

Just one question comes to mind:
Are OculusVR and Sixense/Razer finally going to strike a deal so we can get over this??

Post by **Parallaxis** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:58 am

PatimPatam wrote:Very cool, looks like in the end we will have an easier way to hack-in positional tracking than my wacky approach.
So all that sensor fusion talk was not so complex in the end.. get orientation from IMU + get position from Hydra, done!

Just one question comes to mind:
Are OculusVR and Sixsense/Razer finally going to strike a deal so we can get over this??

There is no doubt in my mind that they are working together at some level.

The mutual benefits is just to great for both of them to ignore. It's pretty much a win win situation. If Oculus can make a exclusive deal with Sixence, it is also at major setback for any competition out there.

Post by **rupy** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:04 am

Yes you are right, the small sensor for the headstrap could also be manufactured by razer!

Now we just need developers to build stuff for 3 absolute positions: head and hands!

This is exiting, really exiting!

Now the only problem is: should one order a hydra or wait for the oculus rift compatible hydra sensor from razer?!

Post by **marbas** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:15 am

@tbowren
Very cool. Nice work man!

Regarding using two Hydra systems. Does it work? Wouldn't the 2 hydra systems interfere with each other?

Post by **donkaradiablo** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:16 am

Cool daddy, lucky kids

I can see a meme happening with a "don't seat on the chair" note on the chair

"How to child proof your virtual home"

Post by **rupy** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:20 am

marbas wrote:@tbowren
Very cool. Nice work man!

Regarding using two Hydra systems. Does it work? Wouldn't the 2 hydra systems interfere with each other?

Ok, that settles it, wait for new hydra with 3 sensors (one for headstrap)! It will probably be announced VERY shortly!

Edit: Let's hope oculus and razer can work together here. It will be hard. I can forsee razer releasing theirs, but if oculus does it's own it's gonna mean bloody mess for developers. We need a standard!

Post by **ChrisJD** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:35 am

marbas wrote:Wouldn't the 2 hydra systems interfere with each other?

They would. As I understand it, the Sixense technology supports multiple base stations using different frequencys so that you can use more than one in the same area. However all Hydras are on the same frequency. The technology also supports up to 4 devices per base station, but again Hydra only supports 2.