GDC 2013 - News and impressions

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Namielus
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

I have been experimenting with my leap motion + hydra. Leap Motion located at the wrist pointing towards the palm of the hand.
But I havent had much luck yet in having hydra track the entire position of the hand, while leap motion tracks individual fingers. Its also quite cumbersome to have a hydra mounted this way.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by norgoth »

Paintbrush wrote:
norgoth wrote: I m not a dev but i have buy one dev because we don t know the futur of oculus and i will be very sad if i miss the ocasion to have a HMD.
I think there's no stopping for VR anymore. If not OR (by some crazy twist of events) somebody else will do it.
VR is simply the only logical next step in computer evolution.

Honestly, the only thing that's stopping me from buying dev OR right now, is that I'd have to wait for it till July (or more) anyway :)

EDIT:
laast: noooo, don't tempt me :lol: hope that won't be the case. In some recent interview they said something would have to go wrong if we'd have to wait till 2014 holiday season for consumer version.
Don t forget that many people are sick with VR. It's is the only thing that make me careful for the futur of oculus
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by GeraldT »

Namielus wrote:I have been experimenting with my leap motion + hydra. Leap Motion located at the wrist pointing towards the palm of the hand.
But I havent had much luck yet in having hydra track the entire position of the hand, while leap motion tracks individual fingers. Its also quite cumbersome to have a hydra mounted this way.
Have you been able to get the LEAP track your hand? I was told that the LEAP would notice movement and would take a second readjusting (I guess to changing lighting conditions).
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

No but I havent tried the latest SDK yet. It sure feels like its better at tracking fingers than the entire hand.
Btw, I havent had time to respond to your email but the latest version you sent me works great.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by realyst2k »

How much of the finger is being tracked? I'm wondering if one could simply extrapolate hand position with the rather safe assumption the fingers would be attached to it :)
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

It gets confused if you close your hand too much, however if you have a skeleton model of the finger it should do a good job at guessing. I should make a few videos to demonstrate when I have the time.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by GeraldT »

Namielus wrote:No but I havent tried the latest SDK yet. It sure feels like its better at tracking fingers than the entire hand.
Btw, I havent had time to respond to your email but the latest version you sent me works great.
Yeah I haven't switched myself so far, the current works fine so why risk bricking it with an update. And glad it worked for you, it is an old build by now - but I have prioritized another title for the moment that will not use the fingers but the tool detection system (you might have seen a bit on Facebook). I won't be able to make Licht Rift compatible as long as the Rift Unity assets have problems with deferred lighting (without it the game would stop looking good), but I am planing on making a special version of the current title for the Rift, maybe even add Hydra support instead of the LEAP.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by yomer »

Namielus wrote:It gets confused if you close your hand too much, however if you have a skeleton model of the finger it should do a good job at guessing. I should make a few videos to demonstrate when I have the time.
THE question going through everyone's head is.

Should I get the discounted Hydra or Pre-order the Leap?

You've had time to test both, if you had only enough for one of them, which would you get and why?
(It's kind of neat that you get buttons and joysticks with the Hydra, but you get much more precision with the Leap once well developed for.)

Is the 8 cubic feet too limiting?

Those are some of the questions that pop in my head ATM, and I'm sure many more people will have to make this decision soon enough.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by brantlew »

I would vote Hydra in this case. Hydra has some clear and proven uses in VR. Leap sounds like a whole lot of speculative extrapolation at this point to me.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

I am not the best judge of this, but as of now I would say the Leap is best for tracking pointing and gestures based on finger tips. It does try to track the palm and the angle of parts of your fingers but it prefers your hand to be open.
It works best on pointy fingers. Forget fists etc.

As of right now, I find the Leap Motion completely useless for Rift. GeraldT has one too, so he may voice his disagreement if he finds me way off track here. But its a cool input device that is more directly in competiion with touch screens in my opinion.

The Leap motion is still developing tho, so in the future we might see it track both arm hand and fingers.
Except for the wires, Razer Hydra is the single coolest peripheral for Rift right now.

Lets hope the demand for Hydra rises enough for sixense/razer to actually put their wireless prototype into production.
I know it exists, it would be so cool.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

Further proof that the cookie conspiracy is real

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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by ChrisJD »

For VR? Hydra.

The Leap may be more useful for VR apps with some of the upcomming SDK updates, but even then the working area is going to be more constrained than the Hydra.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by yomer »

Namielus wrote:I am not the best judge of this, but as of now I would say the Leap is best for tracking pointing and gestures based on finger tips. It does try to track the palm and the angle of parts of your fingers but it prefers your hand to be open.
It works best on pointy fingers. Forget fists etc.

As of right now, I find the Leap Motion completely useless for Rift. GeraldT has one too, so he may voice his disagreement if he finds me way off track here. But its a cool input device that is more directly in competiion with touch screens in my opinion.

The Leap motion is still developing tho, so in the future we might see it track both arm hand and fingers.
Except for the wires, Razer Hydra is the single coolest peripheral for Rift right now.

Lets hope the demand for Hydra rises enough for sixense/razer to actually put their wireless prototype into production.
I know it exists, it would be so cool.
Nice take on both. Watching the Unreal Engine 4 and Crytek 3 tech demos and imagining using the retail version of the Rift, I would see myself more using a Hydra style controller more than the Leap. Maybe with a future revision of the Leap, with much more polished drivers and with twice the reach. Although, I'm speaking only with knowledge of the current hand on reviews and comments on the LEAP.

It's a very interesting paradigm shift, because we know that the leap's precision is the next step in interfacing, but when you're immersed in games, one has to feel the weapon, items, etc. There are fewer games/simulations which would take advantage of leaps capabilities. Ultimately, we might need a hybrid between both.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by 2EyeGuy »

It would be cool if Essential Reality P5 Gloves could be supported in these demos and games.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Hermit »

Not sure if this was already posted somewhere:
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/uncatego ... ence-talk/

it contains a good slideshow about vr problems and the rift.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by maboo63 »

i ordered both of them - leap is not that expensive and the hydra deal (50% off) is just great - unfortunately it seems they're out of stock for europe

*sigh* i have to wait for the rift - i can wait for the hydra
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by GeraldT »

yomer wrote: THE question going through everyone's head is.

Should I get the discounted Hydra or Pre-order the Leap?
For VR? That is not even a question if you ask me, I have both in front of me and the Hydra is what you want for VR.

I disagree with Namielus saying the LEAP is completely worthless for VR, but it will never be for VR what a Hydra is. A LEAP will not help with the feeling of being a human in a virtual Reality, it might help you with manipulating objects in a god mode version of yourself. But I don't want to go into that too much.

I will release games for the LEAP that will work with the Rift. And sometime in the future I might even create the one or other title where the LEAP beats the Hydra as an VR input device, but those will be the freak games, not the norm.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Paintbrush »

I think it's finally time for Powerglove comeback :P I think having 2 gloves with finger and pressure simulation will be THE thing for VR for some time.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by V8Griff »

maboo63 wrote:i ordered both of them - leap is not that expensive and the hydra deal (50% off) is just great - unfortunately it seems they're out of stock for europe

*sigh* i have to wait for the rift - i can wait for the hydra
Yes, seems like everyone has gone for the deal. Waiting is something I seem to be getting good at :D
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Pingles »

The Razer, the Leap and a Powerglove all require holding your hands up for gaming sessions.

Immersive? Perhaps.

Fatiguing...? I fear so.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by GeraldT »

Pingles wrote:The Razer, the Leap and a Powerglove all require holding your hands up for gaming sessions.

Immersive? Perhaps.

Fatiguing...? I fear so.
with the Razer I need a long time test - I think it will have a very light training effect, but nothing compared to playing (table) tennis, badminton or squash
the LEAP, yeah, big issue ... games need to be designed to work with the elbow on the table and then it stops being an issue

powerglove ... I have no idea
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by oculusfan »

Pingles wrote:The Razer, the Leap and a Powerglove all require holding your hands up for gaming sessions.

Immersive? Perhaps.

Fatiguing...? I fear so.
Add some weights to the Razer controllers and then you can workout while gaming. Then you have a good excuse for the wife/gf....."Umm honey...I'm gonna go to the other room and work out for a couple hours...holler if you need me".
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by nateight »

Pingles wrote:The Razer, the Leap and a Powerglove all require holding your hands up for gaming sessions.

Immersive? Perhaps.

Fatiguing...? I fear so.
Shortly after seeing adoral84's amazing HL2 gun tracking mods I had the same concern - that looks awesome, dude, but...wouldn't your arms get tired? I can't find the damned post now, but somewhere or other the man himself showed up and basically said, "Uh, you don't actually need to hold the gun up while you're just walking around, y'know." :oops: EDIT: Accidentally stumbled upon it.

Any game that demands you hold your arms above your head for an hour straight is a game that isn't going to succeed. That doesn't describe many games at all, though. When you're just exploring, interacting with NPCs, shuffling inventory, doing all the stuff that takes up the large majority of your actual "play" time, sit at ease, relax, only put as much energy into it as is necessary. When the action sequences happen you won't notice it's been 10 continuous minutes of "exercise", and then you get to rest again. I can see Hydra wrist straps happening, tracked gun holsters, even a virtually-mapped chair available for sitting your ass down between standing-up firefights. If a game physically exhausts you it's not a conceptual failure of VR input controllers, it's a bad game. :D
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

Ive been saying this to people I have talked to and I think its going to create new gameplay elements.
Are you going to holster your gun, be more agile - or even just hold it down while walking and sacrifice reaction time?

Or are you going to walk with it aiming and suffer from more fatigue?
Also if you have multiple firearms on your persona, they can each be individually tracked and you have to physically select them for their benefits.
Knife being the lightest and fastest reaction time, rifle being the bulkiest and slowest reaction time but longest reach etc.

Probably something for an arcade setting only, but still funtime.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w74qbv-n2ws[/youtube]

This made me smile :D
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Oneironaut »

Cybereality spotted in the wild! That was hilarious.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

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cyber seems to be a really great guy :)
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by mahler »

hammerbot wrote:cyber seems to be a really great guy :)
You couldn't tell from his forum posts? ;)
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by yuriythebest »

mahler wrote:
hammerbot wrote:cyber seems to be a really great guy :)
You couldn't tell from his forum posts? ;)
his beautiful blue hair and vr goggles masked his true form in the wild :) I'm indeed a bit embarrassed I didn't notice him but once one catches sight of a rift, all other details, like humans, become harder to see/ not important - I noticed the same effect when looking at naked ladies one time when I was a kid
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

Yuri You are a special kind of guy
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by brantlew »

yuriythebest wrote:his beautiful blue hair and vr goggles masked his true form in the wild :) I'm indeed a bit embarrassed I didn't notice him but once one catches sight of a rift, all other details, like humans, become harder to see/ not important - I noticed the same effect when looking at naked ladies one time when I was a kid

Cyber's a cool dude and all, but sorry - he does NOT have remotely the same effect as naked ladies. :lol:
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by daniel2e »

nateight wrote:
Pingles wrote:The Razer, the Leap and a Powerglove all require holding your hands up for gaming sessions.

Immersive? Perhaps.

Fatiguing...? I fear so.
Shortly after seeing adoral84's amazing HL2 gun tracking mods I had the same concern - that looks awesome, dude, but...wouldn't your arms get tired? I can't find the damned post now, but somewhere or other the man himself showed up and basically said, "Uh, you don't actually need to hold the gun up while you're just walking around, y'know." :oops: EDIT: Accidentally stumbled upon it.

Any game that demands you hold your arms above your head for an hour straight is a game that isn't going to succeed. That doesn't describe many games at all, though. When you're just exploring, interacting with NPCs, shuffling inventory, doing all the stuff that takes up the large majority of your actual "play" time, sit at ease, relax, only put as much energy into it as is necessary. When the action sequences happen you won't notice it's been 10 continuous minutes of "exercise", and then you get to rest again. I can see Hydra wrist straps happening, tracked gun holsters, even a virtually-mapped chair available for sitting your ass down between standing-up firefights. If a game physically exhausts you it's not a conceptual failure of VR input controllers, it's a bad game. :D

I feel this reduces to the same 'issue' we are seeing with certain types of VR making people sick. If something makes you sick in real life, it is going to make you sick in VR. If something makes your arms tired in real life, it ought to make your arms tired in VR. This is a feature, not a bug.

There is no reason to write a game that requires you to hold your arms up at all times (unless it is either an exercise or torture simulator, I suppose), the avatars in FPS games only do so now because there is no reason not to.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by yuriythebest »

brantlew wrote:
yuriythebest wrote:his beautiful blue hair and vr goggles masked his true form in the wild :) I'm indeed a bit embarrassed I didn't notice him but once one catches sight of a rift, all other details, like humans, become harder to see/ not important - I noticed the same effect when looking at naked ladies one time when I was a kid

Cyber's a cool dude and all, but sorry - he does NOT have remotely the same effect as naked ladies. :lol:
you clearly just skimmed what I wrote
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Namielus »

Brantlew you must never skim Yuri. After all he is the best.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by colocolo »

I noticed the same effect when looking at naked ladies one time when I was a kid
Promising, i was 2 or 3 three old as i embarassed a half naked lady laying on the beach by constantly looking at her tatas. :lol:
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by joakizmo »

colocolo wrote:Promising, i was 2 or 3 three old as i embarassed a half naked lady laying on the beach by constantly looking at her tatas. :lol:
Does the Rift bring your childhood back???
Yes it does. Sinful Robot.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by PasticheDonkey »

Yuriy when you don't have one camera view for 3D i'd expect making that view black rather than grey to be better.
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by KBK »

Namielus wrote:Yuri You are a special kind of guy


Yuri, you made my day. :lol:
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Re: GDC 2013 - News and impressions

Post by Zoide »

Thanks yuriythebest! That was easily one of the best Oculus-related videos I've seen. I'd love to see a joint interview with you and the HipHopGamer! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gniKpojEaI[/youtube]!

I didn't think it would be possible, but it looks like your level of excitement is even greater than his :woot
One friendly recommendation is to use a dedicated microphone next time so we can hear you better ;)
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