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 [shipping info i thought may be wrong] Sorry. 
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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Edit I am deleating my first post here.. the comments i made and quotes i'll not edit but I got an update lately the "june" esitmate may have been a misunderstanding they pointed out that orders will "ramp up" so the 1,500 may not be a "max" number, if so then i am wrong and i apologize for being overly critical , jumping to conclusions

I may be wrong and i think i will try to stop the negitive comments for now and wait and see what the next few weeks give. maybe that is why they did not make any clearer announcement yet they want to see how the first shipment goes and how steady they can make things. and the whole negitivity on the Unity thing may have just been something they kept quiet because they were not really sure till the end I apoglize for being over negative and hope my comments wont discourage people to much :-).

Sorry again!


Last edited by Evenios on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 5 times in total.



Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:47 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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Quit. Whining.

You were months out to start with, given that you just pre-ordered one.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:52 pm
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They don't really have that many existing orders vs production. It's only because they are just starting to ship them out now that it's a big deal. Now that they're starting, they'll be able to go through existing orders in just a few months. Say someone orders around June, that person won't be waiting as long as the existing orders have been.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:54 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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So apparently your enter, shift and period keys work but ' doesn't? And your spell check is broken too?


Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:56 pm
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I'm sure they've decided to be far less optimistic to people since the "ton of devices" quote.

That said, stop complaining, they have a blacklist for complainers and they receive their devices next year (read consumer device).


Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:57 pm
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Just judging from their production schedule it wasn't hard to figure out that website preorders were going to be closer to June than April. Assuming they ramped back to full production on the 10th, + 14 days to produce 5000 units + 28 days sea frate + 7 or so days of prep before leaving the fulfillment center + 3 day shipping....you do the math....here I'll do the math for you....it equals us not getting a Rift for a couple of months....and that is IF you preordered somewhere inbetween Sept and Dec....and if you ordered after that....it is probably June for you....I'm going to start putting multiple periods between all....of my sentences...from now on....thanks...have a great afternoon.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:00 pm
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Evenios wrote:
It seems to me they should have limited it to a kickstarter run then waited till all the kickstarter people got their units ..

actually in that since that would be more then enough feedback to improve the unit. then they could have waited a few months. come out with a new updated version offer more preoders or upgrades at a discount to those who have the first units


If we waited to deliver all the Kickstarter units before opening website orders, then we would have no orders to keep the production line going. We would have to shut down the line while the units ship to the US, wait long enough to get enough website orders to justify spinning it back up (Which would take months, if it happened at all), then go through the entire manufacturing/shipping pipeline saturation all over again.

Our ship date has nothing to do with PR, or trying to somehow get media attention. We have always been trying to ship as fast as possible.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:01 pm
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diwata wrote:
They don't really have that many existing orders vs production. It's only because they are just starting to ship them out now that it's a big deal. Now that they're starting, they'll be able to go through existing orders in just a few months. Say someone orders around June, that person won't be waiting as long as the existing orders have been.



seems a fairly big gap between production capacity (apparantly 500 per day) and shipment capacity if they can only ship out 12-14,000 units by June. Thats in line with their 1500 units per week estimate, but they'd have that many units produced by the end of April.

If there is a bottleneck in shipping then surely there is something they can do about it? Or maybe its a lower production volume than originally thought? In that case just tell us and it'd be more understandable

I'm putting this down to simply underestimating how long things can take in the early days, and its hitting them in the ass now. Completely understandable but undeniable frustrating (for everyone, I'm sure the guys at Oculus are too)


oculusfan wrote:
Just judging from their production schedule it wasn't hard to figure out that website preorders were going to be closer to June than April. Assuming they ramped back to full production on the 10th, + 14 days to produce 5000 units + 28 days sea frate + 7 or so days of prep before leaving the fulfillment center + 3 day shipping....you do the math....here I'll do the math for you....it equals us not getting a Rift for a couple of months....and that is IF you preordered somewhere inbetween Sept and Dec....and if you ordered after that....it is probably June for you....I'm going to start putting multiple periods between all....of my sentences...from now on....thanks...have a great afternoon.


if they ramped back up on the 10th, 2 weeks to produce and 4 weeks to ship gets you to the end of April. Thats a long way from June.


Last edited by mrklaw on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:02 pm
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Evenios wrote:

and taken it much slower it seems to me its more like wham bam.. Palmer has an idea for a VR unit. Carmack hops on board and says its the best thing ever. the hype train comes in town and then a bunch of Devs jump ship to join Oculus but.....are they really able to handle all this?

Sorry im a bit let down by this and the communication over this and the fact that they completely left out this information in the last post last night. More like "hey look at us we are going to finally ship things" but really leaving out the fact (or an apology) that there is going to be delays




Yes, they are able to handle it. It's a done deal, the factory is up producing units and shipping begins for the first backers.

Now for your complaint about last nights communication. It was addressed to Kickstarter backers, NOT pre-orders, It wasn't meant for you, you got the response that was meant for you when you contacted Occulus directly. June isn't as far away as it seems, if you are a developer you more than likely have things you can do with out the Rift, if you're just a gamer/vr enthusiast, well getting it in June is getting it much sooner than the consumer mass market version!


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:02 pm
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PalmerTech wrote:
Our ship date has absolutely nothing to do with PR, or trying to somehow get media attention. I don't understand why people seem to think that would make any sense, we have always been trying to ship as fast as possible.


I believe we are just very anxious to enjoy VR ourselves :P

I'm happy to have friends at work that bought the rift and that are in the first batch, can't wait to enjoy VR and finish VRQ3!


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:16 pm
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I don't understand the logic here either. It sounds like somebody is suggesting that using an assembly line process you get more throughput by waiting to start a second batch until after the first batch is complete? Setting up the line and getting the first unit is what is time consuming. Once it's rolling - the fastest way to get things off the line is to keep it full.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:25 pm
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Evenios wrote:
"Sorry for the confusion. It's true, our estimates have changed. It's probably more realistic to expect website pre-orders to start shipping closer to June.

We are sorry for the delays."


Then why does the preorder form still say "expected to ship may 2013"?

I just hate this "always pretend the best case scenario until you can't" philosophy.

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:29 pm
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brantlew wrote:
I don't understand the logic here either. It sounds like somebody is suggesting that using an assembly line process you get more throughput by waiting to start a second batch until after the first batch is complete? Setting up the line and getting the first unit is what is time consuming. Once it's rolling - the fastest way to get things off the line is to keep it full.


I think the main confusion is perhaps coming from the disconnect between the estimate of 500 units per day production (2,500 per week) and shipment estimates of 1,500 per week. Added onto the perceived delay in initial shipments (wasn't the original plan showing the first shipment arriving with you around March 10th?)


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:37 pm
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GeraldT wrote:

Then why does the preorder form still say "expected to ship may 2013"?

I just hate this "always pretend the best case scenario until you can't" philosophy.


May is closer to June than March :lol: In all seriousness it doesn't say in June, but closer to June which leads me to think pre-orders are expected to ship in late may early June. It's not really clear, but that might be because it's not really clear from their stand point either.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:39 pm
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Thank you for taking the time to respond personally, Palmer. It is appreciated a lot.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:40 pm
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Goijg to spend any free time between now and then really getting up to speed with unity, coding, scripting, etc. The time will fly. Don't forget that a big part of the deal is the SDK and the resources. I'm guessing those you can get right to using.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:47 pm
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oculusfan wrote:
Just judging from their production schedule it wasn't hard to figure out that website preorders were going to be closer to June than April. Assuming they ramped back to full production on the 10th, + 14 days to produce 5000 units + 28 days sea frate + 7 or so days of prep before leaving the fulfillment center + 3 day shipping....you do the math....here I'll do the math for you....it equals us not getting a Rift for a couple of months....and that is IF you preordered somewhere inbetween Sept and Dec....and if you ordered after that....it is probably June for you....I'm going to start putting multiple periods between all....of my sentences...from now on....thanks...have a great afternoon.


28 days sea freight???

Didnt it take 3 guys 3 days to get to the moon?
We need palmer to figure out of a way to increase latency and sea travel:)

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:50 pm
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Aabel wrote:
GeraldT wrote:

Then why does the preorder form still say "expected to ship may 2013"?

I just hate this "always pretend the best case scenario until you can't" philosophy.


May is closer to June than March :lol: In all seriousness it doesn't say in June, but closer to June which leads me to think pre-orders are expected to ship in late may early June. It's not really clear, but that might be because it's not really clear from their stand point either.


That is when preorders START shipping, so a current preorder (and I made my preorder last year .. so mine should ship near or in June) could ship July? August? ... and that is most likely still one of the Oculus style predictions ... with the reality being something like September/October. And still they have May there. Sorry, but that sucks. Better say October and make it September so everybody is "cool, it comes early" instead of "May" when it is already clear it won't.

It is that slimy sales person attitude where you stop trusting the seller.

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:56 pm
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Can people please stop whining and crying about the shipment dates???!!! You sound like a bunch of immature teenagers that didn't get their new toy on time! These are developers kits, not a consumer model or a mass produced toy. I think most real developers understand how this process works. But hey.... that's just my humble opinion.

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:02 pm
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fireslayer26 wrote:
Can people please stop whining and crying about the shipment dates???!!! You sound like a bunch of immature teenagers that didn't get their new toy on time! These are developers kits, not a consumer model or a mass produced toy. I think most real developers understand how this process works. But hey.... that's just my humble opinion.


Most real developers have timelines to meet.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:05 pm
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fireslayer26 wrote:
Can people please stop whining and crying about the shipment dates???!!! You sound like a bunch of immature teenagers that didn't get their new toy on time! These are developers kits, not a consumer model or a mass produced toy. I think most real developers understand how this process works. But hey.... that's just my humble opinion.


Can people please stop whining about legitimate complains ???!!! You sound like a bunch of immature Fanboys that can't think for themselves.

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:08 pm
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Mystify wrote:
Most real developers have timelines to meet.



Yes, some parts of my project are definitely 'blocked' till I have a Rift. There are other things that can be done of course, but they are not the most pressing problems.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:08 pm
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GeraldT wrote:
Aabel wrote:
GeraldT wrote:

Then why does the preorder form still say "expected to ship may 2013"?

I just hate this "always pretend the best case scenario until you can't" philosophy.


May is closer to June than March :lol: In all seriousness it doesn't say in June, but closer to June which leads me to think pre-orders are expected to ship in late may early June. It's not really clear, but that might be because it's not really clear from their stand point either.


That is when preorders START shipping, so a current preorder (and I made my preorder last year .. so mine should ship near or in June) could ship July? August? ... and that is most likely still one of the Oculus style predictions ... with the reality being something like September/October. And still they have May there. Sorry, but that sucks. Better say October and make it September so everybody is "cool, it comes early" instead of "May" when it is already clear it won't.

It is that slimy sales person attitude where you stop trusting the seller.


You do realize you PREordered a product that had an EXPECTED (not guaranteed) shipping date right? And for all you know, things could go smoothly and production could ramp up quicker and they may very well still be able to start shipping preorders in May. That's why they can't give you the solid answer you want. Even if shipping only starts in June for preorders, if you preordered it in 2012 then you'll be the first shipment, you may have your Rift in the first or second week of June. Don't feel like you paid for a guarantee to have this product in May, because you didn't. There's a reason the Oculus team uses words like "probably" and "estimate" because honestly, they have no idea. It's a brand new product with a heavy demand, especially considering that it's just a developer unit. They never lied to you about a single thing, they just didn't give you a concrete date. It's hard to predict how smoothly things will go. You are not entitled to anything but a Rift when it's ready, but as far as I understand, you can get a full refund before your unit ships, so if you decide to go that way, I'm not complaining. That's one less Rift in the queue in front of me.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:10 pm
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Mystify wrote:
fireslayer26 wrote:
Can people please stop whining and crying about the shipment dates???!!! You sound like a bunch of immature teenagers that didn't get their new toy on time! These are developers kits, not a consumer model or a mass produced toy. I think most real developers understand how this process works. But hey.... that's just my humble opinion.


Most real developers have timelines to meet.


What timeline? If they do, maybe they shouldn't have set a completion date before they had the product in hand. Point is, Palmer and his team are working as hard as they can to deliver a great product at the lowest possible price. He his still here all the time updating and answering questions. Do you see the owner of billion dollar tech companies still posting on forums and personally answering questions and explaining delays. Constantly complaining about shipments date is not going to make any difference. But that's just human nature I guess......

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:15 pm
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fireslayer26 wrote:
What timeline? If they do, maybe they shouldn't have set a completion date before they had the product in hand. Point is, Palmer and his team are working as hard as they can to deliver a great product at the lowest possible price. He his still here all the time updating and answering questions. Do you see the owner of billion dollar tech companies still posting on forums and personally answering questions and explaining delays. Constantly complaining about shipments date is not going to make any difference. But that's just human nature I guess......

Developers don't always have the luxury of deciding their own timetables.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm
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Evenios wrote:
Well no offence they should have said that in the message last night. I hate to say it but i have a feeling now maybe Oculus is biting off a bit more then it can chew. It maybe should have not taken any pre-orders after the kickstarter ended until it could be sure that it could fullfil those preorders in a timely fashion and at this point consdering this they should think about holding off on future preorders until they can provide a better production process. otherwise all that is going to happen is a large backlog of units that need to be produced and more and more orders will come in that will take longer and longer to fullfil.



Take it easy. :lol: It's not like MTBS received its Rift either (Yeah! Someone has explaining to do!!). Who knows, maybe it's better to receive a Rift a little later with some software support, rather than too soon when there is nothing to do with it. The glass is half full, my friend!

Regards,
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Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:27 pm
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"Hype hype hype hype"?

Nobody around me ever heard of oculus rift . And I think until I show it to them they never will.

Trust me,all you need to do,is stop F5 mtbs3d .

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:31 pm
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It's all Dycus's fault! He's the one that burned down our factory so please blame him.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:35 pm
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Can't please everyone.
You could not give an estimated time to ship until you know what exactly it is. But that would just make people complain that they have no idea when it's coming or be able to plan around having the device for their project.

You could give a later ship day and say October then ship it out early. But then people would complain that it shouldn't take that long to ship in the first place or giving an unrealistic number is just questionable in the first place.

You could give an earlier ship date and say March. But then people would complain that your being unrealistic and/or the number is questionable and/or that it got delayed and you can be trusted anymore.

You could, say nothing at all. But then people would complain that your not communicating enough.

It's obvious to most the manufacturing, shipping and development of this device and SDK is complex and full of challenges that are causing un-foreseen delays. Not only that, but there is about a half dozen ways to go about communicating it...all of which cause people to complain. I suggest people take a moment to breath a little and join the majority of the people not raging on the forums about delays and accept it's going to be rocky. If you have a commercial project your planning around this, I would suggest that you allow for even more delays, failures and bugs to happen (beyond what's happened already) that will delay it further - but then again, this should have been done from the start anyways.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:50 pm
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This sucks. I'm really pissed now. I was originally a kickstarter backer, but then changed my mind because of their bullshit recommendation to wait for the consumer version if you are not strictly a developer. After more consideration I preordered immediately after they opened site preorders. So that means that in June I will have waited 9 months for the dev kit to arrive.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:09 pm
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This is one of the problems with giving out any estimates, whether they are accurate or not. Maybe we should start saying: "We will be shipping sometime in 2013".

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:17 pm
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cybereality wrote:
This is one of the problems with giving out any estimates, whether they are accurate or not. Maybe we should start saying: "We will be shipping sometime in 2013".


If you are positive you will be able to, that would be a good idea.

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:19 pm
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It's a no-win situation. No matter what we do, somebody's gonna be upset.

I don't expect people to know the ins and outs of mass manufacturing, but let me just say that it is not as clean and cut as many might assume.

You have to find a factory, you have to find somebody to help you communicate with that factory, you have to overcome language barriers to communicate ideas, your engineers have to work with their engineers which requires many trips to China, you need to convince them to make a change they may not deem sensible, they have to make tools (molds for the plastic) which are very expensive, take a very long time to make, and may not be made correctly the first time. The design gets updated, the tool has to be drilled out or built up and changed, which also takes time. You have to take into consideration the limits of injection molding when designing, you have to source parts from companies, you need to theorize, develop, build, and mass-produce a motion sensor, figure out how to calibrate them and then write the software to make it work, you have to find a new display manufacturer after the display you wanted to use wasn't available, you have to deal with much, MUCH larger sales figures than first anticipated, you have to hire people to do the things you need, you have to get external help for other things, you have to figure out how to add a focus adjustment system and go through several iterations until you find something that will work, you need to compensate for the closer lenses that this adjustment system creates by adding a mechanism to move the screen and lenses further, you need to plan trips to conventions, you need to deal with computers not working and you have have to deal with having to work very, very late to get something working for the next day. You need to create software to actually use the device with, an SDK to make it easy to use, add engine integrations, and create demos to show it off. You get the preliminary product and find problems with it so you need to go through another round of revisions, which once again take a lot of time and money. And all the while you have to answer a barrage of questions from crazy enthusiasts who speculate on everything and think we're not trying, when in fact they just don't see everything that goes on behind the scenes (not bashing on you guys here, it's just the truth :P ).

It's not easy designing, mass-producing, and shipping a finished product in less than eight months. Trust me, I would know, I've been in the company since before the Kickstarter lanuched. I'm sorry things have been spotty, but please bear with me because you are getting a product no matter what.

Edit: Reading this post again, I realize this came off rather rant-ish. I admit it was slightly made of out frustration, sorry about that. You guys gotta just chill out a tad, everything will be fine.
Edit 2: Really not too proud of this post any more, but I'll leave it.


Last edited by Dycus on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:21 pm
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Quote:
"We will be shipping sometime in 2013".


Switch to saying
"Shipping in Q2-Q3 2013". If you go passed Q3, then admit slowness and associated shame! (kidding of course, VR is a complex business for a start up)


Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:26 pm
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cybereality wrote:
This is one of the problems with giving out any estimates, whether they are accurate or not. Maybe we should start saying: "We will be shipping sometime in 2013".

Nah, I think people understand that. It's mostly (at least for me) the communication, that the update came at the very last minute when it just feels like this must have been known earlier.

But maybe I am wrong here *shrug*

I don't think anyone expects this to go over 100% perfect (or even close to that), with so many moving parts and on the first run.


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Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:29 pm
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Dycus most people are in awe of the accomplishment - so am I!

What I am complaining about is that Oculus always communicates the "best possible outcome".
Better communicate the "worst possible outcoume" or a "window from best to worst".

Right now you are only trying to get as many customers as possible no matter how much deception it takes. And that is where I lose trust.

I am still looking forward to getting my Rift. And am still impressed by what you guys did and think it is impressive. But the decision to inform your buyers this way is something I complain about. And a hundred fanboys telling me how stupid I am and that there is a process involved will not change my mind.

If Andres already informs people that preorders are estimated to start shipping near June and you still tell people on the preorder site that you expect the current preorders to start shipping in may, then you will have people complaining.

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cybereality wrote:
This is one of the problems with giving out any estimates, whether they are accurate or not. Maybe we should start saying: "We will be shipping sometime in 2013".


Don't worry too much, you can't win no matter what you do on this. People are just upset with delay, which is just going to happen. The manufacturing plant could blow up tomorrow. The place that supplies the plastic could be overrun by a toxic waste spill. The boat shipping the stuff could sink and delay everyone's shipment. A run could have had a problem and everything comes out with cracked faceplates. UPS could go on strike and the packages sit in a warehouse. No matter the reason, someone will be on here complaining that it's taken x amount of time for them to get the Kit and it's Oculus's fault for not counting on that x amount of time in the ETA.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:32 pm
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tldr; Update the Oculus pre-order page to indicate when a pre-order placed "now" will likely be delivered. May is clearly incorrect based on your own shipping rate predictions. When you say "Expected to ship" on an order page then people expect to see the date (and for the "date" a month like you have now is fine) the order they are going to place will ship. Not the date when you might start shipping the first pre-orders.

Then people won't be able to complain about this any more. Don't worry though, they'll find something new :lol:.

I'd also suggest you include that estimated shipping date in the order confirmation email. The only thing worse than providing no information is providing overly optimistic incorrect information. Although both seem to produce a similar degree of backlash in the end. :P


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I don't understand why people wouldn't assume this as soon as the ship date/rate were announced last night. If kits start shipping March 29 and it's only going to be 1000-1500 a week, then obviously if ur order 8000+ it could be as long as 8-9 weeks to get yours. Common sense, people. Didn't require additional explanation.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:43 pm
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 116
Location: Lompoc, CA
GeraldT wrote:
Dycus most people are in awe of the accomplishment - so am I!

What I am complaining about is that Oculus always communicates the "best possible outcome".
Better communicate the "worst possible outcoume" or a "window from best to worst".

Right now you are only trying to get as many customers as possible no matter how much deception it takes. And that is where I lose trust.

I am still looking forward to getting my Rift. And am still impressed by what you guys did and think it is impressive. But the decision to inform your buyers this way is something I complain about. And a hundred fanboys telling me how stupid I am and that there is a process involved will not change my mind.

If Andres already informs people that preorders are estimated to start shipping near June and you still tell people on the preorder site that you expect the current preorders to start shipping in may, then you will have people complaining.


I disagree with your version of preferred communication and that it should be "worst possible outcome". I also disagree with your labeling people would think your wrong as fanboys in an attempt to diminish their opinion's worth - it's not constructive. I'm pretty happy with the way the delays have been communicated. I accept the ETA's they give are their best guess, but will be inaccurate. I also appreciate the waiting to come back with more information till they know more about it. After it's apparent they are going to miss their ETA - I don't think we need someone to tell us what we already know. We need them to come back like they have with a new ETA and a little information on what's going on when they have the full details to make the new ETA.

As for the website, I always assumed that people who pre-order now would get it later then those who pre-ordered already so it could be May is the ETA for them.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:46 pm
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