is 360° FOV possible?

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Kirito
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is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Kirito »

oculus did proof to us 110 fov is possible thats why i wonder if 360 is possible aswel? that if you turn you can see everything behind you in the game.

what do u guys think about this?
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by STRZ »

If you turn you can see already what's behind you with the headtracking, the FOV moves with your head.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by adventurer »

hehe maybe you mean: if you turn the apple of your eye as far as you can, you can still see things, not just a black part of the screen ;)
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by STRZ »

First i thought he meant a uberhuman FOV, similar to what Geekmaster is working on, but giving you the ability to look behind when looking "forward", similar to animals who have their eyes on the outer side of the head, and not embedded into eyeholes.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Linkage1992 »

adventurer wrote:hehe maybe you mean: if you turn the apple of your eye as far as you can, you can still see things, not just a black part of the screen ;)
In which case a 180 FOV would be sufficient.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Diorama »

I've heard of people having 360 panoramic vision in lucid dreams, kind of like a duck with eyes on opposite sides of its head.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by jaybug »

Linkage1992 wrote:
adventurer wrote:hehe maybe you mean: if you turn the apple of your eye as far as you can, you can still see things, not just a black part of the screen ;)
In which case a 180 FOV would be sufficient.
Actually, no. When you include the ability to move your eyes, the FOV is way higher.

Just keep your head still and try to look behind you. With 180° FOV, you wouldn't be able to see your shoulder, much less beyond it.
Don't know what the actual number is, but it's much closer to 270°.

When you look straight ahead it's about 180 total, tho. (190 according to wiki)

Edit: worth mentioning that my ability to focus on anything when turning my eye breaks down way before i get to the "180" line.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Linkage1992 »

My mistake!
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zacherynuk
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by zacherynuk »

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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Kirito »

zacherynuk wrote:Image
lol is that even real?
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by geekmaster »

With eye tracking, perhaps the HMD image could rotate three degrees for every one degree of eye rotation. Then moving your eyes 130 degrees would rotate the world a full 360 degrees.

The human brain is amazingly maleable and SHOULD be able to adapt to that...
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Fredz »

jaybug wrote:
Linkage1992 wrote:In which case a 180 FOV would be sufficient.
Actually, no. When you include the ability to move your eyes, the FOV is way higher.
I'm not sure it's really higher than 180°, even for a moving eye. Unfortunately it's quite difficult to find information about this and the one available on Wikipedia is actually never sourced, so we can't rely on it.

For a non-moving eye it should be around 150° according to Fischer & Wagenaar (1954)¹ and 145° according to the Code of Federal regulations of the United States of America (2005)². For a moving eye it should be around 172° according to Panero & Zelnik (1979)³.

¹ Fischer, F. P. and Wagenaar, J. W. (1954). Binocular vision and fusion movements. Documenta Ophthalmologica. 7, 359-91 : http://books.google.fr/books?id=5QbtT8r ... CC4Q6AEwAA
² Julius Panero, Martin Zelnik. Human dimension and interior space, Whitney Library of design, Architectural press Ltd, Londres, 1979). See 3.4.1 : http://www.cvm.qc.ca/artsplastiques/510 ... ologie.htm
³ The Code of Federal regulations of the United States of America :
https://play.google.com/books/reader?id ... =GBS.PA373

By simply trying to see my left hand with my left eye, first by looking straight in front of me, next by rotating my eye to its full extent, I'd say these values look pretty much valid in my case.
jaybug wrote:Just keep your head still and try to look behind you. With 180° FOV, you wouldn't be able to see your shoulder, much less beyond it.
I can actually look behind my shoulder while keeping my head still, but that doesn't mean that the FOV of my eye is greater than 180°. Since the FOV is less than 60° nasally, only a 150° FOV would be required to see my shoulder.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by squibbfire »

Could the oculus be modified to support 180 ...maybe with different eyepieces and a larger...concave/curved screen?
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by WiredEarp »

I think 180 degree FOV is achievable, 360 would be outside the limits of our eyes perception. However, I mentioned in another thread (threads now actually ;_) that one day perhaps this will be possible with things like brain interfaces. It would be interesting if we can evolve ourselves to have greater than 180 degree perception, even in reality - for example, you could have camera on the back of your head feeding the scene behind you into your brain, so you can sense all around you!
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Fredz »

I'm not sure a 180° FOV would be more desirable than say a 90-120° FOV for a HMD. We can't discriminate colors outside of a 60° FOV, binocular overlap is around 120° at most and we generally move our heads to see things in these peripheral zones.

And rendering a scene in 180° would probably require several passes, at least 4 for acceptable results which will still produce visual artifacts (example with Unity for the iDome), even if only one should theoretically be possible, but in very restricted conditions (see : http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15381 ).
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by zino »

Diorama wrote:I've heard of people having 360 panoramic vision in lucid dreams, kind of like a duck with eyes on opposite sides of its head.
Whatever you can imagine normally you can imagine while dreaming lucidly, so sure.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by WiredEarp »

@ Fredz: I'd think 180 degrees would be a benefit personally, as it will be impossible to see the edges it could add to immersion.

That iDome looks like fun :)
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Zoide »

squibbfire wrote:Could the oculus be modified to support 180 ...maybe with different eyepieces and a larger...concave/curved screen?
It certainly seems like they could increase the FoV by using an approach like geekmaster's Fresnel lens stack for "superhuman" FoV. I really hope Palmer gets time to try that out and implement it in time for the consumer Rift :geek:
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by geekmaster »

Zoide wrote:
squibbfire wrote:Could the oculus be modified to support 180 ...maybe with different eyepieces and a larger...concave/curved screen?
It certainly seems like they could increase the FoV by using an approach like geekmaster's Fresnel lens stack for "superhuman" FoV. I really hope Palmer gets time to try that out and implement it in time for the consumer Rift :geek:
In my latest post in that thread, I suggested a HYBRID lens, composed of a solid aspheric center surrounded by a spherical fresnel peripheral zone that makes skin contact all around, for the widest possible FoV in all directions, while keeping high quality solid lens material in the foveal (central) FoV:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 417#p99408

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In the diagram above, the LEFT eye has a dollar store fresnel lens stack, and the RIGHT eye has a HYBRID lens as proposed in the other thread. The solid lines are the light rays from the edges of half ov an SBS image pair to the eye (bent through the lens), and the dashed lines are the virtual FoV. Of course, that custom lens cannot be found at the dollar store.

And even though this would let you see beyond your natural FoV (beyond facial occlusions), it is still far less than 360-degrees.
:D
Last edited by geekmaster on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:28 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by sth »

Diorama wrote:I've heard of people having 360 panoramic vision in lucid dreams, kind of like a duck with eyes on opposite sides of its head.
I guess you could simulate that with the Rift: Render each eye's view with a 180° FoV and make the eyes look in opposite directions.
Could be an interesting effect, but I guess it's also a great recipe for a headache and/or vomiting. :D
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by Omarzuqo »

It is possible, this is what it looks like:

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But no human being is capable of seeing what's behind them.
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You can also Greenlight other Rift games.
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Re: is 360° FOV possible?

Post by geekmaster »

Side-view and rear-view mirrors provide a useful degree of 360-degree situational awareness. Back-up cameras can help too. And people are already accustomed to using such devices, making them naturally useful for VR (at least in vehicle cockpit simulations).

So although not 360-degree FoV, we already have a simple method that gives us segments of that via mirrors (including seeing behind us).
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