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 Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter 
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Because they have a massive gamer community, one that spends more than gamers in almost any country. They also have a lot of talented developers making cutting edge games, developers that are structured in a way that lets them support the Rift in their titles without having to go through a long and tedious corporate ladder. All of this on PC, too, it is the dominant platform in Korea.


Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:24 am
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That's good thinking.

This slide looks interesting:
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Are they just examples of game genres, or are those games supporting the Rift?

This Unreal Tournament 3 looks 2D to me:
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This looks strongly 3D though (but not the right aspect ratio):
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:40 am
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The pictures are not working for me

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Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:08 am
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They work for me.
Try this page on a completely different site which had some of the same images (and some different ones):
http://www.gamemeca.com/video/news_view.html?seq=33&ymd=20120822&page=1&point_ck=&search_ym=&sort_type=&search_text=&send=&mission_num=&mission_seq=


Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:18 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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2EyeGuy wrote:
They work for me.
Try this page on a completely different site which had some of the same images (and some different ones):
http://www.gamemeca.com/video/news_view.html?seq=33&ymd=20120822&page=1&point_ck=&search_ym=&sort_type=&search_text=&send=&mission_num=&mission_seq=


Oh my. Running that website through google translate was fun. Oculus Rift == "lift' ohkyul Russ (so cliche google, so cliche) . Cliff Bleszinski == Cliff table resin.


Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:48 pm
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I have been correcting Google Translate and trying to teach it the phrase "Oculus Rift" in Korean, but it isn't catching on so far. It does list "Rift" with a capital R as an alternate translation for the "lift" part though, so it's getting there slowly. It doesn't recognise Oculus as a single word, which makes that part harder to teach it.


Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:55 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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mysticeti wrote:
2EyeGuy wrote:
They work for me.
Try this page on a completely different site which had some of the same images (and some different ones):
http://www.gamemeca.com/video/news_view.html?seq=33&ymd=20120822&page=1&point_ck=&search_ym=&sort_type=&search_text=&send=&mission_num=&mission_seq=


Oh my. Running that website through google translate was fun. Oculus Rift == "lift' ohkyul Russ (so cliche google, so cliche) . Cliff Bleszinski == Cliff table resin.



LOL


Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:08 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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2EyeGuy wrote:
Are they just examples of game genres, or are those games supporting the Rift?


Just examples. That slide has not been in English presentations because it is much easier for us to get our point across in English, but the #1 question we have been getting from Koreans is "Does it only work with FPS?!". RTS and MMOs have a big presence there, so we want to show that the Rift has potential across a whole spectrum of games.

I think that screencap of Unreal might be in 2D.


Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:37 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hey Palmer,

Was curious if you could tell us if the included tracker is 6DoF or "9 DoF", (lets not get into the marketing debate, but mainly just talking about the addition of the Compass).

Not really pressing for which exact/specific one but just wanted to know more from a "specs" perspective if its going to have it. I mainly just wanted to know because, after doing more and more tests with the Yost engineering tracker over the weekend... the magnetometer(compass) seems provide quite an accurate drift correction, especially for Yaw.

Even though it is prone to outside interference it is still almost flawless. It seems to compensate/correct itself even if i place items that have current running through them. I was testing it in a room with a bunch of electronics (all of them turned on to try to skew/throw off the compass and it still worked quite well. (5.1 1,000 watt surround system, 47' TV, Router, laptop, Wireless Headset (Astro A50) & baseunit )

Haven't tested it, but the only "potential" problems i could see, but still need to test verify is:
1. Moving electronic components from there initial reference point (that would lead to changing the position of the induced magnetic field). Which in real world scenario wouldn't happen.
2. If the person is moving about the room mid session and are no longer stationary from the initial reference point.

TLDR; Is the included tracker 6DoF (Acel/Gyro), or "9 DoF" (Accel/Gyro/Magnetometer)


Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:45 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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9DOF. That is one of the reasons we had to switch away from the Hillcrest. They were great people to work with, but we needed 9DOF as soon as possible, and our roadmaps ended up not aligning. Awesome people, though. :)


Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:35 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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I am really glad to finally hear that for certain. My game design wouldn't have worked with a 6dof tracker.


Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:50 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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Great so no worry about yaw drift :D

On the down side I guess that means no 250hz firmware :(


Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:52 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Nope, no 250hz. Faster, much faster. ;)


Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:56 pm
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Dangit, how did I not see this sooner?!

http://eclecti.cc/

For those who don't know, that's nrp's Adjacent Reality tracker with insane specs. Good job on getting that partnership nrp!


Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:17 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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haha good find zalo ;)

Looks like we have the likely tracker for the oculus rift... which is good to hear :-D

Project/Product tracker: http://adjacentreality.org


Last edited by Malfate on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:22 pm
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nrp's tracker looked awesome on paper. 760 Hz gyro (and potentially up to 1000 Hz accelerometer).

Good riddance Hillcrest ;)


Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:34 pm
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Hmmm is this 9dof much faster then 250hz tracker the surprise you were talking about or is there even something else we're getting ontop of that!.


Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:09 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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I am amazed at how fast a new tracker can be manufactured and integrated into the RIFT at the same time as getting the RIFT manufactured for 1000's of people, all in a couple of months. :shock:


Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:23 pm
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To be fair, nrp had been working on the Adjacent Reality tracker for many months before we found out about it. It's not like it just came out of the blue. I still want to get my hands on one separately, but I suppose using my oculus rift purely as an IMU has its benefits. It's already integrated into an SDK, it's just a little big. ;)


Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:19 pm
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Krisper wrote:
I am amazed at how fast a new tracker can be manufactured and integrated into the RIFT at the same time as getting the RIFT manufactured for 1000's of people, all in a couple of months. :shock:

With no funding besides Kickstarter and the founders. Very impressive.

Endothermic wrote:
Hmmm is this 9dof much faster then 250hz tracker the surprise you were talking about or is there even something else we're getting ontop of that!.

We know we're also getting a larger screen and higher FOV. I don't know if that's the surprise either. I'm starting to think there's more than one surprise going on here. The surprise won't be higher resolution though, so don't get your hopes up for that (at least not until the consumer version).

PalmerTech wrote:
9DOF. That is one of the reasons we had to switch away from the Hillcrest. They were great people to work with, but we needed 9DOF as soon as possible, and our roadmaps ended up not aligning. Awesome people, though. :)

You have to admire people who let John Carmack fix up their tracker firmware for them. Unlike Sony who make it as hard as possible to improve their product.

Malfate wrote:
TLDR; Is the included tracker 6DoF (Acel/Gyro), or "9 DoF" (Accel/Gyro/Magnetometer)

2 3DOF sensors doesn't always mean Acel/Gyro. The Vuzix VR920 uses Acel/Magnetometer.


Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:19 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Great news about the tracker. Reading the thread about it (http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15184), it appears that position tracking is not a realistic possibility, but the extremely low latency and absurdly high update rates in that tracker are much better than what I expected in the devkit Rift, so I'm even more excited about January!

I'm not a developer (nor even a hobbyist-level programmer), but I can definitely call myself a born-again VR enthusiast thanks to the Rift. I was excited about VR in the early 90's, then at some point just about completely gave up, assuming it would never become a reality for consumers like me (and not at all because of the Virtual Boy - even when it came out I didn't in any way consider it to be a VR helmet). And somewhere along the way came this whole stereoscopic 3D thing, which I ultimately found to be merely more than a neat gimmick. But combine that with an HMD with a relatively wide FOV and low latency rotational head tracking - THAT is going to be amazing. I'm expecting it to be very immersive even without the stereoscopic 3D, as it appears the wide FOV and quality head tracking are more important. I'll just need to learn to keep my body still, haha. Well, position tracking is one of many things to look forward to with the commercial Rift!

At any rate, I cannot wait to look around and get lost in the feeling that I'm inside another world. I enjoy exploring game worlds, but I know I'm missing so much by just looking at them on a monitor. The difference in immersion is going to be incomparable.


Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:40 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Assuming that the Adhacent Reality is infact the tracker (which most undoubtedly is).

I'm primarily happy that the two separate projects, which originally were developed apart from each other will now have a joint partnership, that will mutually benefit each other. The saying, "The whole, is greater than the sum of its parts" is especially true here. An opensource tracker + mostly open source HMD = Hacker/Modder/developer's dream. This is undoubtly setting up a platform that can truly proliferative amongst developers.

The developers after all are going to be the key to the oculus's success (outside of our community). We will undoubtedly love the rift because we are in that niche of the "hacker/maker crowd" as Carmack puts it. But for the consumer it doesn't matter if we have the best FoV,Latency, and resolution... if we have no software or SDK that equally impressive then it won't have "mainstream" success.


Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:49 am
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Cross Eyed!
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This is great news :)

The widest FOV HMD meets the fastest tracker on earth. Scary.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:32 am
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That is more good news added each time. VR seems to be in good hands. With some 9dof, we have all the key components for truly thinking and working on gameplay.


Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:28 pm
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Glad to hear it will be nrp's tracker, he mentioned attempting to add position tracking as well. :)

Pamer- you will be making your 1337'th post soon, hope you have something special planed..

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Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:11 pm
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495989
1080p IN DA HOUSE YO


Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:30 am
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The problem is 5 inches is too small.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:38 am
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Going from 800p to 1080p is good, but is not "that" good. The real deal would be something like 2560x1600, four times more pixels than the developer version, now that would be an improvement. That would be perfect for a consumer version of the Rift in late 2013/early 2014. At that time, even medium range videocards should be able to handle that resolution with no problems. Today, any high-end video card can handle 5760x1080 resolutions (triple screen) in almost every game.

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Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:01 am
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LordJuanlo wrote:
Going from 800p to 1080p is good, but is not "that" good. The real deal would be something like 2560x1600, four times more pixels than the developer version, now that would be an improvement. That would be perfect for a consumer version of the Rift in late 2013/early 2014. At that time, even medium range videocards should be able to handle that resolution with no problems. Today, any high-end video card can handle 5760x1080 resolutions (triple screen) in almost every game.


Well, maybe. It is 3d, so isn't it rendered twice, once for each eye?

Also, next generation games won't render at a smooth 60fps on the pc. Every console generation there is a huge degredation in performance compared to PC, even though the graphic cards are much more powerful due to API overhead. We really don't want much higher resolution than 1080p because only monster graphics cards run in SLI mode will be able to pull off the equivalent of 120 frames second (again, its 3d, so I think it has to be 60 frames per eye, I think...). And, of course, that would be the ideal minimum frame rate. Which I doubt any single graphics card can get today even!

Except in really old games perhaps.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:29 am
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Agreed about high resolutions being bad if it requires a high end rig to drive those displays at 120 FPS. However, can't all graphics card upsample to a higher display resolution with a lower resolution image? And that operation is hardware provided and introduces no latency - correct? For instance I can run a game at 640x480 (with black bars) on my 1080 screen and get high frame rates. So it seems as long as the game engine can be configured to render at lower resolutions (that are still in the Rift aspect ratio), then having high resolution panels would not diminish performance. You would just need to run it at a lower Rift-supported resolution.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:44 am
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PalmerTech wrote:
9DOF. That is one of the reasons we had to switch away from the Hillcrest. They were great people to work with, but we needed 9DOF as soon as possible, and our roadmaps ended up not aligning. Awesome people, though. :)


Magnetometers can cause head-aches for the sensor fusion, because they tend to give unreliable data, especially when close to metallic objects. I talked with Dr. Richard Marks (who led the PlayStation Move development team), and he said that Move's sensor fusion algorithm simply ignores data from Move's magnetometers, because it just wasn't reliable enough. Those developers were a talented bunch, and I'm not sure if magnetometer problems have been alleviated in the past 2 years. Then again, if Oculus Rift uses the magnetometer data only to correct yaw drift, it might work.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:01 am
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2EyeGuy wrote:
The problem is 5 inches is too small.

LordJuanlo wrote:
Going from 800p to 1080p is good, but is not "that" good.

Both true, unless they use a 2-screen partial overlap configuration for the consumer version :-)


Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:29 am
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How is it possible that horizontal FOV is 90 degrees and vertical is 110 degrees with a display like this?
For a 640x800 pixel area, if horizontal FOV is 90 degrees then vertical should be ~103 degrees. And if vertical is 110 degrees then horizontal should be ~98 degrees.

http://rechneronline.de/sehwinkel/angular-diameter.php

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Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:50 pm
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You're right. 90 degrees horizontal should be 103 degrees vertical. I think 110 was supposed to be the diagonal. I got those two mixed up somewhere. But 90 degrees horizontal should be 116 degrees diagonal, not 110.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:11 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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TTakala wrote:
Magnetometers can cause head-aches for the sensor fusion, because they tend to give unreliable data, especially when close to metallic objects. I talked with Dr. Richard Marks (who led the PlayStation Move development team), and he said that Move's sensor fusion algorithm simply ignores data from Move's magnetometers, because it just wasn't reliable enough. Those developers were a talented bunch, and I'm not sure if magnetometer problems have been alleviated in the past 2 years. Then again, if Oculus Rift uses the magnetometer data only to correct yaw drift, it might work.


All three give unreliable data under certain conditions, determining reliability while running is the difficult part.

Yaw drift is the main reason its on there at all. They are slower than the accelerometer and gyro but give an absolute reference for yaw without line of sight.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:09 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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800p to 1080p is just over double the amount of pixels, thats definitely not insignificant. Also the pixels might not be square, that could account for the discrepancy in the diagonal to horizontal fov.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:52 pm
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Owen wrote:
Also the pixels might not be square, that could account for the discrepancy in the diagonal to horizontal fov.

It appears they are square since HV056WX1-100 (1280x800) images show 16:10 aspect ratio.
Could it be that "110 vertical, 90 horizontal" is just a rough, approximate figure?

If diagonal FOV really is 110 degrees, than vertical should be 96.2 degrees and horizontal 83.5 degrees.

From the Kickstarter page:
Quote:
Technical specs of the Dev Kit:
Field of view: 110 degrees diagonal / 90 degrees horizontal


For 16:10 1280x800 5.6'' display (half of it, really) - these specs are impossible without image being disproportional (too wide / too narrow).

I might be wrong, but if I am - please explain how.

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Last edited by Randomoneh on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:40 pm
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Who cares if its 103 or 110 or whatever!?!?! Its over 100 degrees diagonal!!! A year ago I would either laugh or crap my pants if someone told me that.

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Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:44 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Well, it matters when you are trying to make the perspective accurate in your app. Having the wrong FOV in a VR app is like having the wrong aspect ratio in a regular game, it gives you a distorted view.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:13 pm
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Now this is more like it:

Quote:
From projectholodeck.com: Palmer Luckey, our lead hardware engineer and pioneer of Oculus, has developed an affordable high-FOV head-mounted display called the Oculus RIFT. Each of these HMDs utilizes two specifically sized and tuned lenses to amplify a 1280×800 resolution screen into two oculi. Players can see a stereoscopic 3D image with a 90-degree horizontal FOV and 105-degree vertical FOV...

If horizontal is 90, diagonal is ~116.

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