I am now drooling over here!!!! Can't wait to see the video of it in action!!!

I am anxious to see the video as well. It is so awesome that Carmack is on board to give this thing the exposure it deserves.

OK, now I really do believe it....
Not that I did not believe in you PalmerTech all along, but with input from JohnCarmack and an ID demo, it is just at a whole new level now.
I do not mean to keep harping on it, but I really do believe, what I said before is true. People will buy the RIFT just to play an ID demo that is coded for it.
People have been buying new computers or video cards just so they could play the latest ID offerings for a long time, and it will be the same with the RIFT...Only a whole new form of gaming is about to begin. And the last time that happened, I do believe JohnCarmack was there...Wolfenstein 3D (VR edition) anyone..Ha Ha

Any thoughts or experience using Arduion for head tracking? Unless latency is really bad or compatibility doesn't work it looks like a pretty good $45 solution.

http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1231185714

http://hacknmod.com/hack/automatic-head-tracking-with-arduino/

Palmer

I'm almost done putting a doc together. I'll PM to get some clarification on some points before posting.


Patrick Reddeck

That looks like a fun project! The discussion thread mentions it's programmed against a 'SimConnect' API. I haven't heard of that one before. Is SimConnect as well-adopted as the FreeTrack or Eagle Dynamics protocols? facetracknoir is an opensource project; would it be feasible to submit code to the project that allows it to track the HMD (i.e. switch from face mode to Rift mode)?

Or maybe glue some googly-eyes to the visor so that it gets picked up... ?

The Arduino stuff looks cool, but still has gyro drift problems. No magnetometer to automatically recalibrate...

Will the final units be adjustable? If not, that would be a show-stopper for me...

Congratulations Palmer! The article is up.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/30/3052191/doom-3-bfg-edition-announced-for-the-fall-we-try-it-with-john

Oh, and thank you John for backing this with the considerable resources at your disposal. Please convince Palmer he needs to commercialize this device! Seriously this endeavor could take off like nVidia did in the 90's. As you have mentioned before - we're hitting a wall of diminishing returns with graphical fidelity. Immersive gaming is the next big leap and all the necessary technology is coming together at this very moment.

The link is not valid?

Edit - found it!

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/30/30521 ... -with-john

I am crying now like a little spoiled kid - I WANT IT NOW!!!! lol!

Congratulations, guys! That was a nice preview. The light weight has me almost as excited as the FOV and price tag.

It looks like the device used in the preview is running at 60Hz. Palmer, is that the same as can be expected in the initial version, or is there a chance for a higher refresh rate?

Thinking about display latency in our engine (and I hope this isn't considered a hijack, just not sure where else to put this and the Rift has gotten me thinking about HMD programming again), I'm wondering if it makes sense to punch a hole for camera control straight into the rendering thread rather than the main simulation thread. Right now what we have is pretty a standard fixed time step simulation thread/interpolated render thread setup, which includes interpolating the camera based on controller input to the simulation. Theoretically, having the motion sensors directly drive the camera on the rendering thread should eliminate (at least) one whole frame of latency...

Hey Palmer, just curious. I know you've had no luck finding the perfect 7 inch HD panel for your kit. What are the reasons that you have not pursued dual 3.5 inch panels? Something like this...
http://gizmodo.com/5802576/toshibas-got-a-4+inch-lcd-to-rival-apples-retina-display

If you mounted them side by side it would have the same optical design with at least the same if not higher resolution and better aspect ratios. Plus you would automatically gain 2D support as well. Is it mainly software issues of driving and synchronizing the displays - or are there other reasons why this solution is not attractive?

Very cool work Palmer. I found out about it from an article about John Carmack. I just wanted to register my interest in the kickstarter and I look forward to getting a unit to play with this summer.

I've been interested in VR headsets for a while, but only bought my first one (HMZ-T1) at the beginning of the year. It is a pretty cool device, but it definitely has some issues. I've modified mine to mount to a bicycle helmet with headphones, which solved most of the comfort problems, but I can never seem to get the optics just right. I'm happy to see that your device supports such a wide field of view, that was my biggest disappointment with the sony unit.

I'm a software developer and hobbyist 3D animator (using blender). Let me know if there is anything that you need help with.

I have an astigmatism, hope this doesn't rule me out, I've been lurking and looking forward to this HMD since you announced it! Would contact lenses help the people with eye defects?

I am doing that in D3. It has to be disabled during cut scenes and death, but it makes a contribution to the quality feel.

John Carmack

MTBS has an overzealous word filter that seems to be ruining the Verge link, try this:

http://vrge.co/LHW1BG

MY OH MY..Ha Ha

If you watch that video, the guy(Ross), just had his mind blown...LOL
I think he likes it, much, much, more than he is letting on. Unless he is a world class actor, when he takes of the RIFT, you can tell by the look in his eyes, that he had a real blast using it. The look was, "what the hell was that, I've never seen anything like that before"...

I hope I don't sound like some JohnCarmack fanboy because I am not. Just always liked his work.
But I knew when he first posted on these forums that somthing was gonna go down.
This is such a huge help to Palmer and the RIFT..Can't wait to get a RIFT and any ID software that will run on it.

I agree - my favorite part is the end of the video when the HMD is removed and you can see his facial expressions as he tries to re-orient himself to the real world. The classic rubbing of the eyes, etc I remembering experiencing my first time I experienced Dactyl Nightmare so many years ago lol!!!

Hey Palmer,
Won't you need to be taking pre-orders soon. Don't you need the money to start buying part's...Not so gentle nudge.
Also, what tracker was JohnCarmack using ? Is it a tracker we can buy ourselves somwhere easily ?

My cash is ready, and waiting..... so I'm calling DIBS right now.!

My cash is also ready, and waiting..... so I'm calling 2nd DIBS right now.!

Saw one of the IT guys at work checking out the Verge clip at lunch today. It felt like hearing your favourite underground band being played on commercial radio - but in a good way!

Is the unit being demo'd at E3? I want to poke some Aussie game journos to check it out when they head over.

I am giving private showings with it all day Tuesday at E3. There might still be a slot or two free; journalists can contact Bethesda if they want to try to get fit in.

I am trying hard to make sure they all understand that the display is Palmer's, but I'm sure there will be some mis-representations that I built the whole thing...

I will have a Sony HMZ-T1 there as well, which I may use as a side-by-side comparison to show the difference in FOV. The color and pixel switching times are still much better on the Sony, but for a gaming experience the Rift is in a class by itself.

John Carmack

BIG congratulations to PalmerTech to this device and also thanks to John for providing the marketing boost!
I am waiting for the Kickstarter project and looking forward to spend some hard earned cash to get this kit! And that is something when i say it, since i've kicked my VR tech junk addiction quite some time ago...

BUT i am afraid the same problem still remains as with all the rest of 3D / VR devices that ever came out . Acces to content.
I would say that i've spent 90 percent VR time tuning and configuring all the stuff, including getting the games etc to work and 10 percent actually looking at or playing something.
Even if i really wanted to "consume" i've spent time on the desktop quitting programs, navigating through menus etc. That was never the experience i craved, i wanted to dive in and walk on a beach, then go to elsewhere to play a simple game, then zoom to some gallery. Simple stuff, seamlessly interconnected that you can spend hours in because you are always exploring something new or going to your favorite places.
All the devices that came out always came out with some drivers and content, which kinda work but you were limited by several factor - including lifetime of the device producer.

I think what needs to be created is this:
1, Open standardized format + toolchain to create content and publish it online in an interconnected way - There have been plenty tries but the right balance between features / compatibility / ease of content creation have never been struck yet
2, A Viewer of the standardized format with a totally open API for 3D devices - hack in you gyro, powerglove, just whatever
3, A Portal to all this content, including other 3D content types like youtube 3D videos etc. The Portal itself must be created in the same technology so the users can really zoom seamlessly between the available content.

I always realized that individual bits and pieces of this have been out there. The VRML/X3D stuff back then wasn't actually conceptually a bad idea after all. It could all have been done using that but the format got fragmented by individual implementations (like HTML heh) and the device support wasn't there. The content creation tools were really bad too.
Interestingly enough, the content is still out there online (it is all extremely lame by todays standards) and i had once build a proof of concept of the 3D Portal on top of Google App Engine. I had a lot of fun doing that back then but never got all the pieces working together. I was very serious about this idea and we actually did a pitch of it to Nvidia people, just before they started to sell their 3D glasses thing. Back then i was thinking about using Unity 3D as the core technology, because i loved the content creation tools. But it had other problems.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, i haven't visited MTBS3D for a long time and it all just started flowing out when i touched the keyboard.
I am really looking forward to PalmerTech's device - my money is waiting. I might even revisit the old ideas and start working on them once the device arrives.Good luck!

I wish we could have a Second Life experience in 3d with an HMD - I have spent hours walking around Second Life wishing to experience an environment true VR...

Yeah, ironically we should have our own Second Life island and be meeting up there instead of forums - us being the perfect target audience and all. Too bad SL support for this kind of thing is really lame. They even killed the "puppeteering" interface that would have been so cool to develop for.

@pitrz: I totally agree with you, but I think things are changing. We are not there yet, but lots of things happening recently are leading toward VR taking off for real this time. We have a standard protocol for stereo 3D now (HDMI 1.4a) which greatly improves interoperability of different devices. This, in turn, has allowed mainstream consumers to experience 3D with things like the PS3 and any recent high-end HDTV (which has support for 3D). We have seen motion controllers get popular in a big way with Wii/Move/Kinect on the consoles, and developments on the PC side with the Hydra and upcoming Leep. We have major players like Sony who released an HMD with positive press/buzz attached to it and seemingly good sales. We have 3D capabilities on YouTube, one of the most popular sites on the web. Really, we are in a good place.

At this point what we really need is some developers to come up with a REAL VR experience. Even just a tech demo would be enough to get people interested. Maybe the 3D/tracker support in DOOM 3 will be that demo we are all waiting for. Or maybe it will come from some indie/homebrew developer. It doesn't really matter. Its just that we are so close to having all the necessary technology. But even when we get there, what use is it without great software to run on it? So I am very much with you on that point. But we have to just keep moving along and hope things pick up steam.

Just this morning I saw an Engadget article about the Google World Wonders project (http://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/worldwonders/) and that seemed to be a pretty perfect fit for something like this that "normal people" could enjoy. I don't really think it would bring VR helmet into the home of everyone but it could definately make them interested in the idea. For it to be completely engrossing there would have to be a real 3d environment with video and ambient sound. But that could be a later problem.

I'm thinking that part of the reason VRML never took off was that navigating a 3D world with a 2D interface is generally quite suboptimal. It's fun for games, but in that case the point of the game is typically to navigate and interact in that world. VRML tried to make the web into the "real world" without actually solving any problems. In fact, it typically turned a perfectly useable web store or online gallery into something that was less fun to use. (Since computers and browsers were pretty slow back then it also tended to turn everthing into a slide show.)

The biggest thing anyone can do right now is probably to promote open solutions. That could give people some common ground to work towards and also give new enthusiasts something specific they can buy to get started. But it's still quite early and there will have to be a lot of trial and error before we start to get something that is a easy to use common ground. (Compare to how the early days of PC hardware 3D graphics cards worked.)

Sorry for not replying for a while, getting ready for SID Displayweek and fielding a huge flood of emails and PMs from people who read the Verge article has taken up a lot of time!



They will definitely have adjustable focus/dioptre. This first run will probably not have easily adjustable IPD, but if the optics are collimated properly, that is fixable almost entirely in software.



The best thing you can do is spread the word! If I need any 3D animation, I will keep you in mind. I tried to learn Blender years back, could not wrap my mind around it!



There is a chance for a 75hz refresh rate. The control board company promises it can be done, but they also say some things about my current VGA boards that are not quite true.



Finding control boards for those panels is hard, they do not use something common like LVDS. Even if I were to get custom boards made, ($$$$$) there are reasons to go with one panel. It lets you get the screen area closer together (All LCDs have some kind of border), it makes alignment and calibration easier and more robust, and it lets you have a perfectly synced image, even over a wireless video link. If suitable panels and control boards can be worked out, I would love to use them.



Contact lenses will fix things just fine. Glasses are not a good idea, though.



Yes, I do need to get it up soon. The goal was to launch the Kickstarter today, but circumstance has conspired to kill that! Not going to launch it any later than June 15th if I can at all help it. I need the extra time to set up the rewards properly, which will include bundles with Doom 3 BFG and the Hillcrest tracker that Carmack has been using. I want to get the ball rolling ASAP, but not before I get things worked out so I am not stuck with a Kickstarter that does not reflect the potential of the project.



I know that feeling! I never have time to actually play, too busy making revisions. The others are right, we are moving in the right direction with HDMI 1.4, and content is more and more common. We are definitely not as far as we could be, but given 5 years, who knows!

Hey Palmer, or whoever else might know.
Will the full version of Doom 3 BFG have the code to use the RIFT with it ? Or will it just be a the Demo Version that will have the RIFT/HMD Code ?

John can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the PC version of the full game supports it.

Hello JohnCarmack,
Will the Field of View warping be a user adjustable setting in Doom3 BFG ?
Or even just a couple higher (FOV) option selections in a menu.
Was thinking when the 120-270 Field of View RIFT add-on lenses become available, we could be up and running in ID software..

I don't think there are plans for a demo version of the BFG edition. I'm probably going to just buy 100 copies wholesale myself and send them to Palmer for bundling with the first round of kits.

The fov is controlled by a console variable and the warping is done with a fragment program that you can replace if you want, but you can't go past 180 degrees with a single rendering, and d3 won't have support for multiple offset views. Until we get higher resolution panels, spreading things out over an even larger fov probably isn't a good trade off. It would be nice to have a little bigger screen so you could get the same 110 degree fov horizontally that you get vertically, and remove the need to mask the optics horizontally, but really, it is already extremely immersive.

I hope to also include a smaller R&D testbed program with source, but I will need to clear that with Zenimax HQ, so I can't promise it.

The Rift V1 is not going to be a consumer HMD, but it is going to be a godsend for interested hackers.

John Carmack

Thanks JohnCarmack,
An HMD option in the full game is all I wanted. No demo is fine with me John. After all your support & help, I was definitely getting the full version as a nod of thanks to you anyway.

With that said,
Hey PalmerTech,
How do I get on the first 100 list...LOL
I don't know how you are going to do it ? Long time posters like cybereality and others need to be at the top of the list, I just hope I can get squeezed into that first batch of 100 units somehow.

Surely there will be a pledge in Kickstarter (limited to 100 units) that includes the HMD, the headtracker and a copy of "Doom3 BFG Edition". As usual in Kickstarter, the first 100 people who "buy" the pledge, get the reward

well I called dibs.....( just sayin'......) I am pretty sure that is an internationally accepted, binding contact, for most any playground..... I may be wrong though.

When the project launches, I will post a link here right away. Anyone subscribed to this thread should easily be in the first 100, since they will have the link before Google indexes it or any of the tech blogs post it.

I hope this is a successful project, but I don't think it will go over 100 units without any promotion!

Subscribed, ready, and waiting!

That said, I want to throw my support behind two sentiments I've seen on this thread already.

First, I do hope that you do turn a small profit from the kits. It sounds like you've devoted a bit of personal time to this and have come up with something good, possibly great. You should totally be compensated for that. My impression is that this is going to be an assembly-required kit, so I'm sure there will be some post-release support work to be done, too. If nothing else, I'd view it as an investment in you continuing the good work with new displays, optics, connections, battery power, weight reduction, and so on. At the very least give us access to a tip jar or something.

Second, I'd imagine that right about now there's a huge amount of pressure/temptation to shove it out the door. If there are things (like the reliability of the display driver board) that you aren't happy with yet, we can deal with small delays. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, it's much easier to one thing ahead of time than troubleshoot 100 units out in the wild. Finally, given that this could be somewhat disruptive, the rewards for getting it right out of the gate are probably worthwhile.

I "second" both of Bill's points.

Personally, I'm in no rush. I've been waiting for a real VR kit since the 90's, an extra month or so ain't gonna kill me.

Don't kill yourself Palmer.
I thought the first batch was going to be a low profit do-it-YO-self kit. You really do need to up the profit .
But profit or not, I thought for sure there would be problems & hickups when I get a RIFT kit. WHY ? Because It's a kit, I got it for problems.
I also thought there would be no support to speak of, I thought support was going to be us, helping each other on these forums, or on a RIFT website forum.

I just hope no one wants too much from Palmer. Such as 1-800-tech support, not for this first run of RIFT's in a Kit anyway.
Palmer, just include one BC headache powder with each RIFT Kit sold, and then turn your phone off...LOL

Untill you say different, I will think of the RIFT production line as a one man show.