Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by coresnake »

Excellent work, Namielus!
Also whatever movie that is sure looks...interesting...
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Namielus »

eXistenze, pretty cool vr-themed movie.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by codes »

Namielus wrote: I am working on exactly that, I have the room working and video texture streaming, but it only works with ogg files.
But I am hoping to scrape together enough money to hire some freelancer who can help me achieve streaming
_any_ content you want including live streams, and supporting multiplayer so you can meet other people there or
do conferences/lectures etc.
That is so awesome, I had to sit there thinking of the possibilities of those scenarios for a few minutes.
Would there be any problems in presenting video 3d content through a virtual surface, so the oculus presents the left and right eye frames in sync with the rest of the virtual room?

I imagine if done right, the effect could be way better than the polarized 3d in theaters.

Coupling this with virtual avatars along with built-in eye tracking would be an awesome implementation for virtual meetups and chat rooms, where you can see the person's head, eye and body orientations and movements.

Very exciting times indeed :)

I'd be interested in being involved in a project like this, and I am a programmer with game development experience, but I haven't played around with video streaming stuff.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by 2EyeGuy »

Namielus wrote:
Enzo wrote: Imagine that the Rift envelopes you in a virtual IMAX theater where you can choose to sit wherever you want and experience the movie the way you want, or imagine instead of having a 65” TV at home you just grab your rift and simulated whatever size TV you want in your virtual living room.
Image


I am working on exactly that, I have the room working and video texture streaming, but it only works with ogg files.
But I am hoping to scrape together enough money to hire some freelancer who can help me achieve streaming
_any_ content you want including live streams, and supporting multiplayer so you can meet other people there or
do conferences/lectures etc.
That's exactly like one of the things I was planning on doing for the Rift. Although I would also make it support 3D movies (but with adjustable convergence), and make the screen-size adjustable, including options for various standard cinema screens.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by 2EyeGuy »

codes wrote: That is so awesome, I had to sit there thinking of the possibilities of those scenarios for a few minutes.
Would there be any problems in presenting video 3d content through a virtual surface, so the oculus presents the left and right eye frames in sync with the rest of the virtual room?

I imagine if done right, the effect could be way better than the polarized 3d in theaters.
Yes, that is absolutely possible, that was one of the first things I thought of when I got my VR920. It would be exactly like watching the 3D movie in a real cinema. But if you mean you want the 3D video to occlude objects in the theatre then that isn't possible since 3D movies don't store the depth of each point and you can't calculate that in real time. But making it like a normal 3D cinema is very easy.

And yes it would be way better than the polarized 3D in theatres, because there would be ZERO ghosting.
codes wrote:Coupling this with virtual avatars along with built-in eye tracking would be an awesome implementation for virtual meetups and chat rooms, where you can see the person's head, eye and body orientations and movements.
That part is NOT possible. Since your eyes are covered by a HMD straight in front of them and huge lenses are within a few mm of your eyes, and almost the entire field of view of your eyes is covered by a screen, so there's nowhere for a camera to see your eyes from. On the other hand, the rift already provides head tracking so that part's easy.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by codes »

2EyeGuy wrote: Yes, that is absolutely possible, that was one of the first things I thought of when I got my VR920. It would be exactly like watching the 3D movie in a real cinema. But if you mean you want the 3D video to occlude objects in the theatre then that isn't possible since 3D movies don't store the depth of each point and you can't calculate that in real time. But making it like a normal 3D cinema is very easy.

And yes it would be way better than the polarized 3D in theatres, because there would be ZERO ghosting.
Not to occlude objects with in the theater yeah, just the 3d coupled to the left-right eye frames in the headset.
That part is NOT possible. Since your eyes are covered by a HMD straight in front of them and huge lenses are within a few mm of your eyes, and almost the entire field of view of your eyes is covered by a screen, so there's nowhere for a camera to see your eyes from. On the other hand, the rift already provides head tracking so that part's easy.
Oh well, yeah, the head orientation would be good, though I'd imagine that somebody will find some way of squeezing in the eye tracking, either by looking from the outside of the lenses from below or above and extrapolating the pupil position, or some other nifty way. Hard to say before I get a good look at it physically.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by android78 »

2EyeGuy wrote: That part is NOT possible. Since your eyes are covered by a HMD straight in front of them and huge lenses are within a few mm of your eyes, and almost the entire field of view of your eyes is covered by a screen, so there's nowhere for a camera to see your eyes from. On the other hand, the rift already provides head tracking so that part's easy.
Maybe put a partial mirror in between the lens and screen so you could have a camera in the bottom of the case to track the eyes. I'm not sure that level of detail is really required to start with though, just head and limb tracking.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

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Ladies and Gentlemen we have a spammer in our midst lol
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by mahler »

Namielus wrote:
Enzo wrote: Imagine that the Rift envelopes you in a virtual IMAX theater where you can choose to sit wherever you want and experience the movie the way you want, or imagine instead of having a 65” TV at home you just grab your rift and simulated whatever size TV you want in your virtual living room.
<<movie screen picture>>
I am working on exactly that, I have the room working and video texture streaming, but it only works with ogg files.
But I am hoping to scrape together enough money to hire some freelancer who can help me achieve streaming
_any_ content you want including live streams, and supporting multiplayer so you can meet other people there or
do conferences/lectures etc.
Great work sofar!
There are many people out there who are looking forward to this.

I noticed that the picture you included was 800x605
Would you be able to include another picture of what 1 eye would see? (640x800)
And then the user sitting in front of the screen (optimizing the number of pixels for the video)
What could the effective resolution of the video be?

I am wondering what the minimum resolution should be to watch this video in HD
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Namielus »

3D movies within the virtual theatre is really no problem at all.
The resolution would be limited by the hmd, and obviously the closer you sit the more of your view is filled by the movie content.

I have booked an appointment with a motion capture studio, to capture a lecture.
I plan to hire a more skilled programmer as a freelancer to help me build a webgl demo with the correct distortions, fov and aspect ratio so people can watch a movie clip and a very articulated/gestured lecture with a person standing in front etc.

EDIT;

By the way, the demo I made is just a simple room in Unity3D, and this will be the demo plattform just as a proof of concept for one room and one included video.
But as far as I can tell Unity does not support streaming other content as a video, so in the long term I will have to find whatever engine works best for streaming any content you want into the virtual lounge.

I think if I can just get an actual working proof of concept going I can get more money to jump up to an AAA engine and hire more help.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by mahler »

Namielus wrote:3D movies within the virtual theatre is really no problem at all.
The resolution would be limited by the hmd, and obviously the closer you sit the more of your view is filled by the movie content.
[....] so people can watch a movie clip and a very articulated/gestured lecture with a person standing in front etc.
Good stuff! :mrgreen:
At my office, we did studies into the effects of 3D audio in virtual classrooms.
This would also be really cool to work with.

The reason why I asked for a picture of a closer view and in that resolution is that I would like to make a better guess on the actual feasibility of watching movies in this context.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Namielus »

The problem with setting the resolution like that is that I am not a very good programmer, and when I cut the resolution it cuts the FOV. I dont know how to get the correct FOV and so on within that rendered frame of resolution.

For me its not really important on the dev-kit, even if the resolution on the percieved video is sub-vhs,
there is something about a video texture as an emitter that is really magic.
I mean when the video is the only lightsource in the room, it scatters the colors around the room.

Its good enough as a proof of concept, and with higher res HMDs its going to be even better.
I cant wait to get a rift to start testing this out, and if I cant make it work I will be really bummed out.

here is your view from 640x800 but not the right fov/distortion. And also one optimized with the frame filling the entire view.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by zalo »

On the eye tracking front, it might be possible to do some very general/low resolution eye tracking by attaching electrodes to the HMD around the eye. It would measure your eye's muscular impulses without using a camera. It's called Electro-oculography.

Here's a demo I found after a quick search: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsodk9qKye4[/youtube]

This kind of solution meshes perfectly with an HMD, but it's difficult to get up and down movements. It's heartening to know that there are instances of people building their own DIY setups.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by mahler »

Namielus wrote:The problem with setting the resolution like that is that I am not a very good programmer, and when I cut the resolution it cuts the FOV. I dont know how to get the correct FOV and so on within that rendered frame of resolution. For me its not really important on the dev-kit, even if the resolution on the percieved video is sub-vhs, there is something about a video texture as an emitter that is really magic. I mean when the video is the only lightsource in the room, it scatters the colors around the room.
I see what you mean. This looks so much cooler than expected.
The reflection of the movie-screen gives a great effect.

There are some people here who have already made their own prototypes.
With some help on getting FOV right, they might be able to preview it for you.

Otherwise I guess it's waiting until the dev-kit ;)
Keep it up!
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

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The reflection is nice, but the best way you can watch a movie is to have no noise, only the movie. When you watch a movie, you should focus entirely on the screen, the reflection breaks the immersion.

I wonder what would be the long term feeling about this. But this has to be done anyway so that we can understand more on this subject.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Namielus »

The immersion is simply about feeling you are in a large cinema. Without it, you are just watching a movie floating in dark space.
While this is entirely possible, it is also not the point of what I am making.

I am making it so that you feel like you are in a virtual cinema, but turning off the reflections could be as simple as a flick of a button.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by bobv5 »

http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/C ... amera.html

I'm also bad at programming, but if you are using the default camera all you have to do is move the fov slider. At least that worked for me last time I played with unity.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by cybereality »

Have you guys seen the blog post about Kickstarter being "Not a Store":
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kicksta ... ot-a-store

Seems these new changes they are implementing are (at least in part) due to the Oculus Rift. Thoughts?
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

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cybereality wrote:Have you guys seen the blog post about Kickstarter being "Not a Store":
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kicksta ... ot-a-store

Seems these new changes they are implementing are (at least in part) due to the Oculus Rift. Thoughts?
I just started a new thread on this very topic.

Feel free to delete if redundant.

I think it is a GREAT idea. Also, my post shows how the oculus would have been required to modify its marketing visuals to 'sell' the rift. Also, I really like the idea of being required to talk about future difficulties and how to overcome them.

It isn't clear at all what difficulties are involved.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by jhebbel »

2EyeGuy wrote:
codes wrote: That is so awesome, I had to sit there thinking of the possibilities of those scenarios for a few minutes.
Would there be any problems in presenting video 3d content through a virtual surface, so the oculus presents the left and right eye frames in sync with the rest of the virtual room?

I imagine if done right, the effect could be way better than the polarized 3d in theaters.
Yes, that is absolutely possible, that was one of the first things I thought of when I got my VR920. It would be exactly like watching the 3D movie in a real cinema. But if you mean you want the 3D video to occlude objects in the theatre then that isn't possible since 3D movies don't store the depth of each point and you can't calculate that in real time. But making it like a normal 3D cinema is very easy.

And yes it would be way better than the polarized 3D in theatres, because there would be ZERO ghosting.
not entirely accurate, z values CAN be extrapolated from 3d videos in real time, there are currently already 3D players that are able to read video frame data and convert to a different method of 3D such as interlaced, stereoscopic, polarized etc....
2EyeGuy wrote:
codes wrote:Coupling this with virtual avatars along with built-in eye tracking would be an awesome implementation for virtual meetups and chat rooms, where you can see the person's head, eye and body orientations and movements.
That part is NOT possible. Since your eyes are covered by a HMD straight in front of them and huge lenses are within a few mm of your eyes, and almost the entire field of view of your eyes is covered by a screen, so there's nowhere for a camera to see your eyes from. On the other hand, the rift already provides head tracking so that part's easy.
again, not entirely accurate, with the consumer version of the rift not doable, but if moving eyes where really that important a one way mirror type solution could be used to hide a camera behind the image, but this is overkill for such a simple feature.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by EdZ »

jhebbel wrote:not entirely accurate, z values CAN be extrapolated from 3d videos in real time, there are currently already 3D players that are able to read video frame data and convert to a different method of 3D such as interlaced, stereoscopic, polarized etc....
The players do no such thing. All they do is output the pair of images on the disc via HDMI, and the TV will display that pair using whatever method the display utilises. The images displayed will be the same regardless of player or display technology.
There are players and TVs that attempt to 'convert' 2D content to stereo 3D, but this works about as well as automatically colourising B&W film.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by codes »

2EyeGuy wrote:
codes wrote:Coupling this with virtual avatars along with built-in eye tracking would be an awesome implementation for virtual meetups and chat rooms, where you can see the person's head, eye and body orientations and movements.
That part is NOT possible. Since your eyes are covered by a HMD straight in front of them and huge lenses are within a few mm of your eyes, and almost the entire field of view of your eyes is covered by a screen, so there's nowhere for a camera to see your eyes from. On the other hand, the rift already provides head tracking so that part's easy.
again, not entirely accurate, with the consumer version of the rift not doable, but if moving eyes where really that important a one way mirror type solution could be used to hide a camera behind the image, but this is overkill for such a simple feature.
[/quote]
For a virtual chat/meetup/environment, maybe. Still, I see this has enhancing the personalization of the experience in ways that can't be expressed without a huge amount of extra hardware work otherwise.
If eye position tracking has upsides in a variety of scenarios, such as game environments where it applies depth focus calculations (which Palmer and Carmack had mentioned as possibilities for the future), then the upshot of tying this information into these environments also becomes more attractive and attainable.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Malfate »

cybereality wrote:Have you guys seen the blog post about Kickstarter being "Not a Store":
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kicksta ... ot-a-store

Seems these new changes they are implementing are (at least in part) due to the Oculus Rift. Thoughts?
I found this quite intriguing... cause im sure kickstarter sure didn't mind taking the millions of dollars for their portion oouya/oculus.

I think what they just now realized that the stakes are starting to get much greater. Not just a couple thousand enthusiasts who want to help back projects... but it seems people are coming with a consumer model expecting to get what they "rightfully" paid for. I think its rightfully so, but i think they are just trying to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits. Although i found the no simulations thing quite odd... especially given the nature of kickstarter, especially for devices its nearly impossible to represent/ "show" (like the oculus rift). The quantity limit surprised me aswell, i suppose to get away from the consumer "shopping" model.

The right move in the long run imho
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Post by 2EyeGuy »

Namielus wrote: By the way, the demo I made is just a simple room in Unity3D, and this will be the demo plattform just as a proof of concept for one room and one included video.
But as far as I can tell Unity does not support streaming other content as a video, so in the long term I will have to find whatever engine works best for streaming any content you want into the virtual lounge.

I think if I can just get an actual working proof of concept going I can get more money to jump up to an AAA engine and hire more help.
Well, there's your problem. You shouldn't need to use an engine for just one room. If you wanted to make a whole virtual cinema building that you walk around in, maybe you would need an engine, but as it is now, I would just make something like this straight in Direct3D or OpenGL, then I could make it play whatever format videos I wanted. If you want avatars or networking though it might be harder without an engine.

Edit: BTW, I just had to read through 130 pages of this thread to get up to speed. That took a while. :-)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Namielus »

2EyeGuy, would if I could but I cant so I won't. I am not a programmer. Besides more things will be added, and I like the ease of use of unity.
However when and if I hire a freelancer, I will take his advice.
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Post by hast »

Namielus wrote: Image
I am working on exactly that, I have the room working and video texture streaming, but it only works with ogg files. ...
I can see a lot of potential in special movie theater "add-ons" as well. Such as "The Ring" and "Mystery science theater 3000" models. :-)
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Post by crespo80 »

hast wrote: I can see a lot of potential in special movie theater "add-ons" as well. Such as "The Ring" and "Mystery science theater 3000" models. :-)
WOW, that's really a good idea for using the Rift to watch movies as we were in a movie theater!
So we can use the central part of the image for the movie (altough at lower resolution) and the peripheral FOV to render the inside of the theater.
And your idea of a ring-like horror movie is terrific, imagine a rift-designed movie in which you mentally got to think you're in a real 2D theater, and at some point a creature steps outside of the screen :woot (this effect was also used in 3D horror movies but the immersion of the rift will bring it to the next level!!!)... a whole new world of possibilities opens up!!!
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Post by hast »

crespo80 wrote:
hast wrote: I can see a lot of potential in special movie theater "add-ons" as well. Such as "The Ring" and "Mystery science theater 3000" models. :-)
And your idea of a ring-like horror movie is terrific, imagine a rift-designed movie in which you mentally got to think you're in a real 2D theater, and at some point a creature steps outside of the screen :woot (this effect was also used in 3D horror movies but the immersion of the rift will bring it to the next level!!!)... a whole new world of possibilities opens up!!!
I was thinking of trying to make a small concept demo in Unity for another concept where you basically make a "scene" for the user to experience. But you don't really have any option to move around but are sitting stationary. It seems like Sony already made a really interesting concept with this at TGS: http://kotaku.com/5945181/ive-seen-the- ... terrifying with a "mixed reality" prototype. The way I see it there are a lot of people who won't be interested in playing games in a VR setting. But have the experience of being in a remote location could be interesting and more approachable.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by jis »

Yeah there is a huge new concepts to develop.
For the Ring exemple, instead of a monster jumping on you. I can see the movie having noise and shut down on the screen, then a part of the wall moves and you must walk downstairs and watch the end of the movie in a new screen in a cave.
While this is distracting from the main movie, it might increase the feeling of fear.
The feeling that you are not safe and you should react positively to an aggression makes you less passive to the initial media.

Also this could be developed by anyone in top of any movie, like a game mod.

While this is very fantasmatic, I can already see a good application to something like this: this is like Disney Park's haunting house visits where you walk in an environment based on old mythic fictions coming from movies and books. I recently went to something similar in Paris where you had real actors playing you stories based on Paris dark legends, this was like walking in a movie. Like my first assumption, less "immersion" in the movie, but a powerful bestial feeling of fear even if you are totally aware of the mechanics.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by cybereality »

So something like this, but in 3D?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ERHARhwlYw[/youtube]
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Post by Namielus »

I have an appointment before December with a friend of mine that teaches motion capture at a school.
He has a 12cam v100 setup from naturalpoint/optitrack and we are going to capture a lecture about juggling.

That's because whenever I find someone who I can hire or get on board a sort of team, I will put the mocapped model in that room as a lecture you can watch with very vivid and lifelike motion.

The setup just does not capture the juggling balls very easily, so they will have to be animated by hand, but at the end of the day its going to be an animation that is interesting and fun to watch.

While its not a horror movie, where the "monsters" actually come out , it will demonstrate mixing film and with actual 3dmodelled /animated content in the room.
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As a juggler, I have to say that your friend's project sounds really cool!
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Post by Namielus »

For the record, its my project. My friend is only involved because he has access to motion capture.
But its going to be fun, the number of items that can be juggled is limited by the low roof height,
but should be nice demonstration anyway.

It's ment to demonstrate a lecture/presentation for the audience in addition
to movie content. Think about live motion tracked keynotes, lectures etc being broadcasted to an audience
using rifts and watching from their respective seats.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by BOLL »

http://oculusvr.com/preorder/ Preorders open :P and whuuu... feels like I want to order another one, haha... still hyped, I am.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by 2EyeGuy »

BOLL wrote:http://oculusvr.com/preorder/ Preorders open :P and whuuu... feels like I want to order another one, haha... still hyped, I am.
I just ordered my first one now.

I'd wait for the consumer version before ordering a second one though, unless you're made of money, or you expect the consumer version to take a very long time to be released.
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BOLL
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by BOLL »

2EyeGuy wrote:I just ordered my first one now.

I'd wait for the consumer version before ordering a second one though, unless you're made of money, or you expect the consumer version to take a very long time to be released.
Sorry if that was what I implied, I am not about to buy a second one, I still only got one head to put it on ;) And right now I have zero income so no, not made of money. Still, I got the feeling that I wanted to because I want it so badly, even if it is completely illogical because it would make no difference, hahaha. Yes, I'll try to calm down, too many childhood dreams ride on this though.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by cybereality »

I bought 2 (though Kickstarter). I figure its probably going to be a one time limited production run, so if I break it there may not be replacements. Plus I want to be able to take it around and show people, and I wouldn't want to do that with my only unit.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by 2EyeGuy »

cybereality wrote:I bought 2 (though Kickstarter). I figure its probably going to be a one time limited production run, so if I break it there may not be replacements. Plus I want to be able to take it around and show people, and I wouldn't want to do that with my only unit.
Yes, but you're cybereality, so you're awesome like that. I'm not quite in your league.

John Carmack and Palmer Luckey have both had to take their only unit and show it around. It must be scary for them.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Dycus »

Well, it's only scary because if it breaks, I have to spend more time making another. :P Not a huge catastrophe.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Malfate »

glad to see dycus is alive. Was getting worried there for a minute ;)
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