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 Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter 
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:46 am
Posts: 50
brantlew wrote:
We should at least ask them whether they would consider adding experimental beta support. A campaign on their forum would be a simple way to voice our interest in this feature. A petition and a pre-release unit from Palmer might be all that is required to motivate them. But we are still a very small percentage of their customers which is why I also suggested a kick-starter campaign. If Palmer sells 100 of these kits, I am pretty sure that all 100 of those buyers are going to want game support. If everyone contributed $40 that would be $4000. That's enough to pay for two weeks of a senior developer's salary. So at least (in theory) we could use our group power to pay for the development of the feature.


Good idea, lets already start a forum thread to get things rolling... I guess already asking for such a feature can't do wrong. (I don't know the 'technical' details about the warp / parameters so I think somebody with more details should start a thread there)


Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:34 am
Petrif-Eyed
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We should get PalmerTech's thoughts and blessings before we initiate this, since he might be called upon to advise Tridef and supply technical support and hardware to them.


Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:00 am
Two Eyed Hopeful

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brantlew wrote:
We should get PalmerTech's thoughts and blessings before we initiate this, since he might be called upon to advise Tridef and supply technical support and hardware to them.


I agree, well I will for sure not post something on the TriDef forums without any details / a device myself anyway.


Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:14 am
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Yeah, I think its a great idea to see what DDD thinks. Best probably for Palmer to start the thread since its his project. But I could contribute $100 to the effort.

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Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:47 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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This panel looks like it could be a great contender for a future HMD device: http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/306674 ... ppi-ah-ips


Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:20 am
Two Eyed Hopeful

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Just to let you guys know: (an interview with John Carmack with mention of Oculus Rift)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/35 ... ty-gaming/

mayb there should be a 'coverage' site somewhere where we can collect all kind of information about this project

UPDATED:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/06/john- ... ew-inside/


Last edited by AntonieB on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:33 am
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
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While its great that this is building momentum i feel it might be worth while to explain clearly the method used and the resulting split screen. I think if the publicity builds you could see 'new players' laying down cash not realising they need to work around this HMD's design of having no 'normal' mode. Maybe a caveat note on the kickstarter page.

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Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:01 am
Petrif-Eyed
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AntonieB wrote:
Just to let you guys know: (an interview with John Carmack with mention of Oculus Rift)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/35 ... ty-gaming/

mayb there should be a 'coverage' site somewhere where we can collect all kind of information about this project


Carmack is not prone to hyberbole so it is really exciting to hear him say that outside military systems, this is the best VR demonstration in the world.


Edit: Another even better link (courtesy of dewdewcaca)
http://kotaku.com/5916210/carmack-being-carmack-a-dozen-minutes-with-one-of-video-games-smartest-people

Listening to these interviews really demonstrates what a great asset it is having Carmack on-board this project. He just brings a huge amount of credibility and technical know-how to the whole endeavor of VR and immersive gaming.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:31 am
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:25 pm
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brantlew wrote:
Listening to these interviews really demonstrates what a great asset it is having Carmack on-board this project. He just brings a huge amount of credibility and technical know-how to the whole endeavor of VR and immersive gaming.


Yup brantlew,
I don't think you could find a better person on the planet to work on VR or anything that needs brain cells. In the video's you can tell he has two things we always needed in a person to move VR forward #1: His brain is lightning fast, and #2: His heart is in it. This guy with an idea in that head of his, is unstoppable.
And of course we have Palmer Luckey. With him we get, Brains, Heart and Luck.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:59 pm
Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:56 pm
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I have been watching this thread for a while, I was in from the first post. Finally a wide FOV HMD that I can afford, and a game supporting it! Can't wait for the Kickstarter.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:57 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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mickman wrote:
RIFT is not so bad .. does it stand for anything ?

R.I.F.T ? Real Inner Face Technology ;) ( could swap Real for Retina too.. since its a hot word these days )


Retinal Immersion Factor Technology

Retinal Immersion Factor Theatre

Retinal Immersion Factor Transfer

Retinal Interface Technology

The T words are hard. Transporter? Transformer? Transcriber? Transmitter?

etc.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:22 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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I'd be in for this too.

I have an eMagin Z800, and did some development work with its 9DOF IMU, as well as 3D sample applications (testing convergence and such). The z800s 42 (45?) degree FOV was quite limited, so I never really stayed with it... I would be way in for a high-FOV unit.

As an aside - I wear glasses (nearsighted, about -3 diopters) and the Z800 adjustments were enough to let me use it without glasses. (I also have an icuity M920 - it also allows me to set the focus for no glasses.) Would be nice if it had some adjustment (even if disassembly required.)


Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:22 pm
Certif-Eyable!
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Once again, the RIFT is getting press, but the press is thinking the headset is made by John:
http://au.ign.com/videos/2012/06/06/ign-reacts-john-carmack-makes-virtual-reality-actually-cool-with-new-head-tracking-device-e3-2012
Either way, it's amazing how much acceptance this is getting just because of who is promoting it. I guess that the work John has done to make Doom render correctly for the display has a lot to do with it.
GOOD JOB GUYS!!!


Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:32 pm
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Those interviews with Carmark are gold! I can't think of someone better to promote this product.

Also:

Really Impressive Future Technology

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Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:47 pm
Petrif-Eyed
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android78 wrote:
Once again, the RIFT is getting press, but the press is thinking the headset is made by John:
http://au.ign.com/videos/2012/06/06/ign-reacts-john-carmack-makes-virtual-reality-actually-cool-with-new-head-tracking-device-e3-2012
Either way, it's amazing how much acceptance this is getting just because of who is promoting it. I guess that the work John has done to make Doom render correctly for the display has a lot to do with it.
GOOD JOB GUYS!!!


The press don't listen carefully, but Carmack was very clear about crediting Palmer. And Carmack seems to have done a lot of independent work as well and deserves plenty of credit. It's incredibly fortunate that the Rift came along at just the right time to synchronize with Carmack's work. It's a perfect marriage of independent hardware and software research.


Last edited by brantlew on Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:56 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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Everyone seems excited about the possible gaming aspects of the wide FOV, especially with Carmack dedicating his time and resources to it. If he puts his weight behind something it seems to really push it into the mainstream.

As a software developer, I hope this continues to gain traction. i'm looking forward to the idea of having a spherical window manager to code inside while travelling with my laptop. The immersion of an isolated environment in common spaces would be a wonderful freedom from the noise of cubicles and airplanes. Of course, this dream requires a great deal more resolution before text is legible at workable resolutions, but the first 2D window managers were at now-painful resolutions.

In the meantime, I can't wait to try Doom 3D :woot


Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:34 pm
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:25 pm
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The Hillcreast tracker has been tweaked to johns spec's, for use with an HMD, Doom3 BFG, of course has been optomized by John himself to be used with an HMD and Palmers RIFT is the goto HMD.
Doom3 BFG is going to be out of this world, when played on a RIFT.

Palmer you have worked so long on the RIFT and John now on his end. Set the RIFT at a price that covers for this work.
I thought John posted about buying 100 Doom 3 BFG's out of pocket, to ship with the first 100 RIFT's. The price for a RIFT should cover atleast Johns cost for the games, and all your work on the RIFT also. Well, some of your work, the RIFT would be another $20,000 HMD, if we had to pay for "ALL" of your work.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:58 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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Regarding the pricing of Rift on Kickstarter, for those who aren't familiar with how it works you are free to donate thousands of dollars for your part of the contribution if you choose and if Palmer sets up a tier.

Also keep in mind Palmer will own the rights to a name, thanks in large part to John Carmack, that is getting a lot of attention. That name can then be commoditized in various different ways to allow supporters and fans to hand over cash.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:33 pm
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!

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PatrickReddeck wrote:
Regarding the pricing of Rift on Kickstarter, for those who aren't familiar with how it works you are free to donate thousands of dollars for your part of the contribution if you choose and if Palmer sets up a tier.

Also keep in mind Palmer will own the rights to a name, thanks in large part to John Carmack, that is getting a lot of attention. That name can then be commoditized in various different ways to allow supporters and fans to hand over cash.


I get that, but dosn't he still set the price for a single unit to be sold at ?
If so, that is the price I was talking about.
What good would it be, if he gave away units, in the hopes of a "Fan" giving a big donation one day.

No need for me to talk about this anyway...
Palmer is much smarter than me. He'll know how to price it correctly.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:53 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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A couple of questions from a MTBS newbie interested in developing for the RIFT:

- Is the kit spec on the RIFT webpage an all-inclusive list? Will the kit include an option for the "wireless video link" and if so, are there more details on that?
- Is head tracking also included as an option in the kit or will a solution for that be required independently?

Just gathering up as much technical info as I can, so I can get a jump start on developing a game targeting this device while waiting for the Kickstarter to run its course :) Thanks!


Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:21 am
Cross Eyed!

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Eurogamer has their preview up now.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:34 am
Cross Eyed!

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Hey blitter,

From what I've been gathering from recent coverage, it sounds like the initial Kickstarter run will probably have one tier that is just the ready-to-assemble RIFT kit and another tier that will bundle a tracker and a copy of Doom 3 BFG. Wireless video and higher resolution displays have been mentioned as possibilities, but it's sounding like that might be a more realistic expectation for a version 2.0 kit.

This is all just a reasoned guess, though, so don't take any of it as Gospel until you hear it from Palmer. :) I imagine things will probably be shifting around quite a bit behind the scenes right up until the Kickstarter is a go.

Hope that helps!


Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:53 am
One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:51 am
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Thanks BillRoeske! Assuming that wireless video and head tracking will be necessary as third-party components, what is the status on the development of so-called "Wireless HDMI" technologies? How significant of a hit to latency would there be when applying such technology in combination with head tracking? Are there any numbers / Have there been any experiments done with this yet?


Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:02 am
One Eyed Hopeful

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I warned Palmer ahead of time that it was a foregone conclusion that some of the media would report the Rift as my work, despite my vey explicit description otherwise. Sometimes their eyes are just glazed over by the time I start talking about the actual display I am showing, as opposed to all the general lead up, and they miss the critical bit, and sometimes it is the push to make a more sound bite friendly article title.

In any case, I repped the Rift pretty hard through a dozen presentations to a lot of important people. The original plan was that I was just going to do them on Tuesday and bail from E3 after that, but the response was so strong, and the buzz was getting around, so I wound up giving another day full of demos on Wednesday.

The reaction was honestly better than I expected -- only one person found it distractingly uncomfortable (due to their eyelashes brushing the lenses), and every one of the journalists left enthusiastic about it, with several bordering on awestruck. I would have been happy with an 80% win rate.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:44 am
One Eyed Hopeful

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Just came across this thread today and thought the project was worth doing a quick logo concept for.

Cheers,
3drocket


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Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:45 am
Cross Eyed!

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I saw another video interview at GiantBomb today: http://www.giantbomb.com/e3-2012-john-carmack-interview/17-6164/.

And there are several examples in these videos of journalists listening and trying to make enouraging noises at the appropriate moments. But I have to say that having a video is really nice because that way we viewers can at least listen to what the developer is saying without relying on a filter of what the reporter took away from it. (It would be awesome to see a similar "interview" or discussion between Palmer and John where they talk about the technology but where they actually understand each other and can ask followup questions.)

Regarding the price on the Kickstarter. I just figured I should say that for me I'd rather see Palmer charge a bit more per unit to ensure that he doesn't get into unforseen economical problems when it is scaled up. Also, remember to look into shipping prices world wide before because I'm sure I'm not the only one who is interested in that. (Other Kickstarters that ship products have charged a bit more for world wide shipping.)

Also JohnCarmack: I've seen you mention in several videos that you haven't gotten translation tracking to work properly with the unit. One thing I wanted to try with it was to use a Playstation Move or similar device to optically track the 3d location of the unit and try to use that in game. Have you already tried that and found out that it doesn't work for some reason? (The USB webcam has too much lag perhaps?)


Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:09 am
Two Eyed Hopeful
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Media Coverage is exploding right now! (Kotaku, Giantbomb, Eurogamer, Neogaf, Golem.de, avsforum, pcgameshardware.de and many more...)

This is so so awesome, what a wonderful coincidence that John showed up here. Even if almost no one gets the crediting quite right atm (what may be a good thing at this point in time) thats probably the very best thing that could happen to us VR Folks, even more than Sonys move with the HMZ-T1.

Good job guys, good job!


Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:02 am
One Eyed Hopeful

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JohnCarmack wrote:
only one person found it distractingly uncomfortable (due to their eyelashes brushing the lenses)


Which brings to mind something that's been nagging at me, how does this sort of thing work with those of us who need glasses? For myopia, for example. Does the Oculus Rift have diopter correction?


Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:50 am
Cross Eyed!

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 5:31 pm
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blitter,

High resolution, low latency wireless video has actually been gaining a decent amount of traction lately. I'm not an expert, but from what I know most recent stabs use 5GHz radio signal. Because it's so high frequency, it can carry a lot of data very quickly. Tradeoffs include a relatively short range (around three to five meters) and a signal that's easily blocked by obstructions.

Probably the easiest example to point to is Nintendo's upcoming Wii U console, which uses wireless video to stream game play to the screen on the GamePad controller. They claim effectively no latency, which lines up with other comments I've seen that the overhead is about 1ms. Various recent home theater and networking equipment has also been shown off using similar high-frequency radio for wireless video, too.

So, I wouldn't call it common yet, but things are looking up. That Nintendo is effectively pinning the success of the new console on the technology speaks volumes about their confidence in its reliability and lack of latency. Overall I agree with John and a few others that the ultimate way to go will be the equivelant of a smartphone hooked directly to the HMD. But, wireless video certainly is useful, especially if you have a smaller arena and just want to throw gobs of desktop computing power at it.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:13 am
One Eyed Hopeful

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JohnCarmack wrote:
only one person found it distractingly uncomfortable (due to their eyelashes brushing the lenses)


Ooh ooh Palmer, can you make the distance from out eyes adjustable for those with long eyelashes?? :D

Actual question though, how many of them found the resolution a limiting factor for the immersiveness of the HMD? Sounds like everybody you showed it to was impressed and it wasn't really an issue?


Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Cross Eyed!

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:28 am
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I really hope that even with all the publicity that this has gotten lately, that I'm able to get in on the Kickstarter order. Seems like there's more and more people getting excited about this every day.

I have one question about the screen that's currently being used. I'm fine with it being low res as I know that the sense of immersion is more important than screen resolution. I was wondering however, what happens if during the process of the Kickstarter funding or in waiting for the Doom release, somebody comes up with a screen solution that yields a much higher resolution. Would the kit design of the Rift allow for a screen swap? I'm really new to this kind of stuff, but am excited about this project almost to an unhealthy level. The thought of FINALLY being able to be immersed in a virtual world as apposed to watching it through a window, has gotten me insanely geeked!


Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:58 pm
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Here's a funny writeup. This author seems to be the most impressed of any of the reviewers I have read so far. Just made me laugh when he referred to "Lucky Palmer". At least he tried... :lol:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/07/tech/gaming-gadgets/e3-highlights/


Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:44 pm
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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BillRoeske wrote:
Eurogamer has their preview up now.

Wow! They actually linked to this MTBS thread!!!! Impressive.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:46 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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Lurking as well. I am subscribed so I can jump on the kickstarter. I am most interested in the expandability. How difficult would it be to swap in a higher resolution LCD? I would be willing to pay more for a higher resolution!


Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:22 pm
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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Not to be a another me too, but I want to pitch in that I'm in for every iteration you produce and hope the responses here give you the drive and numbers you need! Will be a lot of fun writing toy worlds and 3D engines once again to play in, maybe even create something akin to "Snow Crash" one day... we have the tech, just need to get it out to more people affordably :) Prior experiences with VR were the exact opposite of what I had hoped for but the responsiveness and FOV of this kit gives me hope in my lifetime :)

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:21 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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hast wrote:
And there are several examples in these videos of journalists listening and trying to make enouraging noises at the appropriate moments. But I have to say that having a video is really nice because that way we viewers can at least listen to what the developer is saying without relying on a filter of what the reporter took away from it. (It would be awesome to see a similar "interview" or discussion between Palmer and John where they talk about the technology but where they actually understand each other and can ask followup questions.)

Personally I prefer to read what Carmack writes. While his speech is very information dense, it sometimes gets a little tangled. His writing is very clear though. But if the alternative is listening to him vs reading some journalist who may or may not actually grasp the subject, I guess I'll listen. I got a lot out of the interview Giantbomb posted.

I'm glad to see so many things coming together, and I'm glad Palmer is pushing ahead with the project, despite the issues. "The perfect is the enemy of the good." --Voltaire Let's have the good this year, and worry about the perfect later. Sure, I'd love for Samsung to buy about a million meters of Corning's new 100 micron flexible glass and use it as a substrate for 440 ppi 4k2k AMOLED displays with submillisecond latency. Wrap-around hi-res lag-free display goggles would be fantastic. Until then, well, a Rift will do nicely. :)

DM


Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:04 pm
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DragonM wrote:
... Sure, I'd love for Samsung to buy about a million meters of Corning's new 100 micron flexible glass and use it as a substrate for 440 ppi 4k2k AMOLED displays with submillisecond latency. Wrap-around hi-res lag-free display goggles would be fantastic....

I've had a dream like that since I was about 10yo (even though AMOLED hadn't been invented yet)... now over 20 years later, I am still amazed it hasn't happened yet. The thinking was that they would pretty much be being used by everyone by now. Although, I think these days we really need to be pushing for QLEDhttp://www.qdvision.com/qled-technology displays instead of AMOLED


Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:47 pm
One Eyed Hopeful

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My first post here on MTBS and had to join in with this product, sounds Great! I just like to know PalmerTech, which LCD panel and Controller are you using, is it from Vitrolight?

The 5.6inch Panels I tested had Major Ghosting issues. ( http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-6inch-TFT-LCD-Module-1280-800-HV056WX1-100-/300598400802?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fd0f9722 )

They look great with images, however when there is any motion due to it's slow response, there is significant ghosting.

You mention you are using a 6inch Panel and I would greatly appreciate if you can provide a little more info on them, thanks again! and good luck


Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:28 am
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I'm not sure if those are the screens paratray but Carmack did mention (and Palmer confirmed) - viewtopic.php?f=120&t=14967 - that it is reasonably slow at switching colours (20ms) which can cause some ghosting. It didn't sound that bad though. It's not something anyone has mentioned in the actual Doom demo, I don't know if John actually put in the motion blur to minimise it or not.


Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:56 am
Cross Eyed!

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I found a post on Hack-A-Day which discussed these glasses as well: http://hackaday.com/2012/06/07/where-is-my-ing-virtual-reality-display/. It seemed like a good fit for the Oculus Rift as that's a community about modding and hacking devices so I posted a link to this forum thread as well.


Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:29 am
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