Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by geekmaster »

You could even do some cool VR for the Rift using only a Raspberry Pi, provided you adjusted the content accordingly.

In fact, simple cartoon-like content can get away with more "approximation cheats" giving it more speed, being far enough away from the uncanny valley effect to not require all that extra precision required by resource-hungry state-of-the-art video games.

And for Arduino VR for the Rift, you could get away with simple vector-based 3D maze games. It is just a matter of time...

:lol:
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by PasticheDonkey »

i want HD VR elite perhaps with filled polygons just to be fancy.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by TheHolyChicken »

geekmaster wrote:You could even do some cool VR for the Rift using only a Raspberry Pi, provided you adjusted the content accordingly.

In fact, simple cartoon-like content can get away with more "approximation cheats" giving it more speed, being far enough away from the uncanny valley effect to not require all that extra precision required by resource-hungry state-of-the-art video games.
I'll support that thought 100%. One of my favourite games I played with my nvidia 3D was actually "Puzzle Agent". Here is a picture to get a feel for the style:
Image

It looks hand-drawn, and the game appears to be completely 2D. I don't think it was even rated as supporting nvidia's 3D at all, and it didn't even cross my mind to don my glasses.... until I saw the little green light on my 3D vision pyramid light up. Turns out it worked pretty fantastically. It clearly wasn't designed with 3D viewing in mind (some things at the wrong depth), but despite that it was great. It really breathed life into the world in a way I absolutely was not expecting. I fully expect the same to be true (probably moreso) for VR content.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by geekmaster »

PasticheDonkey wrote:i want HD VR elite perhaps with filled polygons just to be fancy.
1984 original, or the latest (successfully funded) Kickstarter episode?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/146 ... -dangerous

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbqyRzRXkRs[/youtube-hd]

Are these guys adding Rift support?
Can you release “Elite: Dangerous” on the (iPhone/iPad/Console/Mac/Linux/Oculus Rift/Raspberry Pi) platform?
Yes. It would be great. The PC version comes first though, and then we will look at the demand for other platforms. If the game exceeds its target, then there will be scope to increase the number of platforms. We will discuss with the backers in the design discussion forum, and how to address the issues that will arise, but I have every hope that we will cover some or all of these platforms.
Cool! Oculus Rift *and* Raspberry Pi support! (Maybe...) :D
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by PasticheDonkey »

1984 version would be nice for a few hours. i always just found a profitable route and didn't explore the procedurally generated universe too much tho.

i think it somewhat likely that it'll get rift support for dangerous unless braben has some strange problem with VR.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by cerulianbaloo »

Well I understand it's software requirements, I was inquiring specifically about the medieval village demo Oculus has been demoing everyone, or perhaps the Epic Citadel, UT3 demos etc. I'm not sure the range of hardware they've been using, save for the SLI setups we've seen here and there. I know they're partial to Nvidia, but it would be nice just to hear a guesstimate min spec machine for both AMD and the former for the demos. I recall from the PA Report article recently Palmer mentioned they'd be rolling out some sample applications prior to the dev kits shipping to give us an indication of performance. At the end of the day this is all just venting due to the exquisite excitement that is oozing out of my every pore, I need more scraps! The Notch picture certainly helped tho :)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by drifter »

cerulianbaloo wrote:Well I understand it's software requirements, I was inquiring specifically about the medieval village demo Oculus has been demoing everyone
Google demo + oculus rift + nvidia :
"The demo system used an Nvidia GTX 680, but we were told they used a Nvidia GeForce GT 650M on a notebook to perform the Unity demo."
http://asia.cnet.com/hands-on-oculus-rift-62220118.htm
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by cerulianbaloo »

@drifter: Wow really (@ the 650m)? Okay I'm not as concerned now ;)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by MSat »

Bear in mind that there was no significant content in the Unity demo AFAIK, so it may not be a particularly good metric for system requirements, unless that demo is really the only thing you're interested in.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by cerulianbaloo »

@MSat: I've done some very broad benchmarking using the Vireio drivers on titles like HL2, Dear Esther, and Portal 2. Those all perform admirably so I'm not too concerned, I was mainly just curious about the Unity one as that seems to be really the only thing we know of atm that's "done" and optimized specifically for the Rift. Also, I'm a bit more interested in the virtual tourism aspect than any sort of manshoot or action heavy games. Mainly excited for exploratory or puzzle based titles. Well, and simulators like Star Citizen of course :)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Endothermic »

drifter wrote:@Alkapwn
Seems like FRAPS didn't get your min FPS here.
Or there was a point where the game stuttered for a second meaning 0 was the minimum frame rate.
drifter wrote: But anyway your avg FPS is already 60, so...
An average of 60 doesn't realy mean much (and the first one was 58 anyway), he could still have lower then 60fps alot of the time as long as it's well above 60 enough of the time too offset that and give the 60 average.

And even if the the min never dropped bellow say 57 or something, with vsync on anytime it dropped to that (which could be 10..20..30% of the time, we dont know) the framerate would drop right down to 30 so he may see that as a stutter or in the least a bit jerky while at that framerate.

So it may be playable, it may have some jerk or stutter every minute or two which may not bother him or someone else or it may seem to be completely unplayable with that happening, it's hard to tell with just the Avg and Max frame rates. The only thing you can say for sure is you need the minimum to always be 60+ for a proper experience for everyone, if it ever drops bellow 60 then depending on the frequency it happens as well as the individual will determine how it affects playability.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Direlight »

Plan on getting a fast computer. Games might run good with 3 guys standing there, but start adding dozens of players, NPCs, physics, particle effects, dynamic shadows, and 3d rendering...bye bye smooth performance.

Oh and then run it in 1080p when the consumer version releases.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by drifter »

Endothermic wrote:
drifter wrote: But anyway your avg FPS is already 60, so...
An average of 60 doesn't realy mean much
An average of 60 means his min FPS is under 60 and it's not good (maybe I was not clear enough)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by 2EyeGuy »

geekmaster wrote:In fact, simple cartoon-like content can get away with more "approximation cheats" giving it more speed, being far enough away from the uncanny valley effect to not require all that extra precision required by resource-hungry state-of-the-art video games.

And for Arduino VR for the Rift, you could get away with simple vector-based 3D maze games. It is just a matter of time...
PasticheDonkey wrote:i want HD VR elite perhaps with filled polygons just to be fancy.
Since nobody else seems to be, I'm working on a driver for Direct3D 1 to Direct3D 8 and even DirectDraw. So far I've hooked all the APIs, and I've got a wrapper working for doing DirectDraw in Direct3D 9 in a test game on a virtual screen. Direct3D 1 to 7 use DirectDraw, so I needed to start from there. I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with ExecuteBuffers yet in Direct3D 1, 2, and 3, but so far the project seems OK.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Zoide »

A lot of people mentioned that the Rift's minimum specs will vary drastically depending on the game. I totally agree with that. What I meant is that they could say something like "a GTX 560 Ti is enough for Doom 3, Hawken, Star Citizen, and Source-based games, but you'll need a GTX 660 Ti for Crysis 1/2/3".

I mean, at least *some* general idea of the horsepower that will be required, like tech sites that tell you how to put together a killer gaming rig under $xxx by taking into consideration some of the most popular games.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by geekmaster »

2EyeGuy wrote:Since nobody else seems to be, I'm working on a driver for Direct3D 1 to Direct3D 8 and even DirectDraw. So far I've hooked all the APIs, and I've got a wrapper working for doing DirectDraw in Direct3D 9 in a test game on a virtual screen. Direct3D 1 to 7 use DirectDraw, so I needed to start from there. I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with ExecuteBuffers yet in Direct3D 1, 2, and 3, but so far the project seems OK.
That sounds cool and useful. I am looking forward to trying that out when it is ready...
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by cybereality »

I think you probably know if your computer is good enough. I mean, if you are struggling to play games in 2D, then you may have issues with Rift-ready games. Or, if you can comfortably play modern games in 3D, then you are likely to be fine.
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Post by IGameArt »

Hey i tried messaging them on kickstarter, but got no response so i figure i might as well ask here. Lets say i order a devkit from the kickstarter and move afterwards. What's the best way to ensure that it gets sent to the new address? Do we know for sure that they will be shipping with usps and putting in a change of address online would take care of it, or will i have to get in touch with Oculus directly to have them ship to the right address?
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by jhouff »

Kazioo wrote:Some negative impressions: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments ... cade_east/
Lame I had no idea about the "black bars", that's too bad. That's actually one of the things I hated about my Sony HMD, the black frame.

Hope the black bars won't be as much of an issue with the 7" display. Time will tell.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by geekmaster »

Kazioo wrote:Some negative impressions: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments ... cade_east/
It sounds like his main complaints (other than seeing black borders) are about a mismatched IPD (not big enough for him) making things appear too close, and the skybox effect of flat mountains (a software "problem"). And the black border problem may also be amplified by incorrect IPD. Perhaps he is trying to compare his experience to The Matrix rather than to previous lower FoV implementations of VR HMDs. Or perhaps, like Michael Abrash, he just wants more pixels and more detailed textures...

EDIT: I just got done reading the comments others left at that link. One of them points out that it may not be the IPD that is the problem, but rather that the virtual cameras are too far apart (added intentional for enhanced 3D when viewed on traditional 3D monitors):
As far as scale is concerned, i bet the cameras were too far apart, when i was doing some stereo work, we had a tendency to do that to give the 3d more pop, but for something like the oculus, i see it beneficial to keep camera distance identical to the real world.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Diorama »

I have heard it said that those who had in the past already tried other HMDs and 'vr' equipment were the most impressed by the 5.6" prototype; perhaps because they have been let down before.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by jaybug »

It sounds to me like his expectations might have been a tad unrealistic. That's not to say he doesn't have valid critisisms, but "I wasn't transported into another dimension" is not one of them.

I do fear a lot of dev-kit buyers are gonna have the same reaction. "This is it? I thought it was gonna be just like the matrix"

It is good to get a sobering perspective, though, as it was getting to be a bit much with the hype.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by geekmaster »

Diorama wrote:I have heard it said that those who had in the past already tried other HMDs and 'vr' equipment were the most impressed by the 5.6" prototype; perhaps because they have been let down before.
That does not bode well for John Q. Public.

This is why believe (as I posted elsewhere) that a new generation with no preconceived notions about VR may need to grow up with this new VR technology to fully accept it. At least it is finally (almost) time to get these tools out into the world for the next generation to grow up with, as part of their daily life. I hope the consumer Rift can fulfill this function.

Besides lots more pixels (at least in the foveal area), a bit of decent haptic feedback (stylish but minimal exoskeleton perhaps) could go a long way to making VR more presentable to the current crop of humans hosted by this planet.

I think the first step to general acceptance may be AR, where people are still grounded in the real world, with bits of VR slowly taking over their FoV as they learn to accept and appreciate it. For them, full VR will be like going to the movies (or a mini tourism vacation), rather than a tool to be used in daily life.

The real turning point will be either a true Holodeck with real holograms (and some kind of magical haptic feedback), or a Matrix-style direct neural (wireless) interface. Until then, for us VR enthusiasts, bring on our new toys!
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Direlight »

The negatives in the Reddit review are actively being worked on. As long as Oculus makes enough money for a 2nd gen with custom screens, it will be very competitive. I'm supporting Oculus because they're on the right technological path, not because it's the absolute best 3d display currently available. It also fixes inherent limitations of using motion controls, I can't ever go off screen with it. Another advantage is, when the resolution is high enough, I'll have a much easier time spotting things at extreme ranges. Game engines now can render enemies at very far away points.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnTdPKZFeEc[/youtube]
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by SiggiG »

For those of you worried your computer will be enough for Oculus, just get the new NVidia Titan :D
http://www.nvidia.com/titan-graphics-card
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by twofoe »

SiggiG wrote:For those of you worried your computer will be enough for Oculus, just get the new NVidia Titan :D
http://www.nvidia.com/titan-graphics-card

Huh. I wonder if this feature would work on the Rift's display:
Gizmodo wrote:a new feature that is exclusive to the Titan will let you overclock your display's refresh rate when running Vsync, so you could theoretically achieve 80fps even when using a 60Hz panel, and the same goes for 120Hz panels as well. Nvidia told us the GPU simply "lies" to the panel and tells it to run at a rate higher than it's supposed to, with the caveat that not all panels will allow this, but the only way to find out is to try.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by zino »

SiggiG wrote:For those of you worried your computer will be enough for Oculus, just get the new NVidia Titan :D
http://www.nvidia.com/titan-graphics-card
I don't think that was your intention, but just to prevent someone from rushing out and buying this card for Rift: Titan is not the fastest gaming card Nvidia sells. It's the price of a GTX 690 with lower game performance. It's one hell of a GPGPU though.
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Post by Kazioo »

jhouff wrote: Lame I had no idea about the "black bars", that's too bad. That's actually one of the things I hated about my Sony HMD, the black frame.

Hope the black bars won't be as much of an issue with the 7" display. Time will tell.
Wait. Since when have we been expecting Rift to have 180 degrees horizontal FOV? :o
Nothingness = black. The 7" display won't remove black bars, because FOV will be similar. Rift is not "the matrix device". It will be rather something like an alpha version of matrix with ski goggles on your head.

Rift has almost human vertical FOV and there are no visible black bars at the top and the bottom, so it's MUCH better than Sony HMD. Don't worry ;)

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Popopinsel »

zino wrote:
SiggiG wrote:For those of you worried your computer will be enough for Oculus, just get the new NVidia Titan :D
http://www.nvidia.com/titan-graphics-card
I don't think that was your intention, but just to prevent someone from rushing out and buying this card for Rift: Titan is not the fastest gaming card Nvidia sells. It's the price of a GTX 690 with lower game performance. It's one hell of a GPGPU though.
Nvidia doesn't sell graphics cards, they're developing and selling GPUs. And GeForce Titan (GK110) is indeed the (world's) fastest GPU. The GeForce GTX 690 uses two GK104 GPUs which is used on the GTX 680. Just to clarify! ;)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by TheHolyChicken »

Kazioo wrote:Some negative impressions: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments ... cade_east/
Sounds to me like the Rift hardware and the demo software was just wasn't quite right for his face. It pretty much explains It seems he was able to clearly see the black bars, yet many people have said they could not see the edge of the screen unless they "looked" for it with their eyes! I don't think people yet realise that the geometry of their face actually matters. Hopefully these issues can be resolved (or at least helped) with calibration!

Watch this video: http://youtu.be/KJo12Hz_BVI?t=9m21s (link takes you straight to quote. The entire video is a great watch, though!)
Q: "And the new prototype gets rid of the black on the sides?"
A: "It depends on who can see that - it depends on your eye depth and everything, but yea it does."
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by MikeFesta »

Well I understand it's software requirements, I was inquiring specifically about the medieval village demo Oculus has been demoing everyone
I'm not sure if this is obvious to everyone here, but I had never tried Unity before seeing that rift demo and I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they have a free version. That medieval village is also free to download, so I played the demo on my monitor, imagining how awesome it would be inside the rift. I don't think that oculus has released the Unity driver yet, but when they do you could run the demo on your PC at 1280x800 to get an idea of the performance. Speaking of which, any news on when the developer kit/portal is due to launch? March is just around the corner...
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Dycus »

Gizmodo wrote:Nvidia told us the GPU simply "lies" to the panel and tells it to run at a rate higher than it's supposed to, with the caveat that not all panels will allow this
Sounds like a feature I've had on my computers since Windows 95! :lol:

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by 2EyeGuy »

Kazioo wrote:The 7" display won't remove black bars, because FOV will be similar.
But the 7" isn't 100% overlap. So it should be significantly wider for the same height. But it will have bars that are black in one eye and not the other.
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by jhouff »

Kazioo wrote:
jhouff wrote: Lame I had no idea about the "black bars", that's too bad. That's actually one of the things I hated about my Sony HMD, the black frame.

Hope the black bars won't be as much of an issue with the 7" display. Time will tell.
Wait. Since when have we been expecting Rift to have 180 degrees horizontal FOV? :o
Nothingness = black. The 7" display won't remove black bars, because FOV will be similar. Rift is not "the matrix device". It will be rather something like an alpha version of matrix with ski goggles on your head.

Rift has almost human vertical FOV and there are no visible black bars at the top and the bottom, so it's MUCH better than Sony HMD. Don't worry ;)
I'm not to worried but I recall a couple videos where Nate had told the person demoing the Rift that you can look left, look right and you can't find the borders. I think that is why I had felt like there would not be black bars. Again not to worried about it; it's going to be leaps and bounds better than my poopy Sony HMD. :)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by jhouff »

TheHolyChicken wrote:
Kazioo wrote:Some negative impressions: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments ... cade_east/
Sounds to me like the Rift hardware and the demo software was just wasn't quite right for his face. It pretty much explains It seems he was able to clearly see the black bars, yet many people have said they could not see the edge of the screen unless they "looked" for it with their eyes! I don't think people yet realise that the geometry of their face actually matters. Hopefully these issues can be resolved (or at least helped) with calibration!

Watch this video: http://youtu.be/KJo12Hz_BVI?t=9m21s (link takes you straight to quote. The entire video is a great watch, though!)
Q: "And the new prototype gets rid of the black on the sides?"
A: "It depends on who can see that - it depends on your eye depth and everything, but yea it does."
Boom! That is one of the vids where I got that notion. Thanks!
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by RABID »

even as a developer kit it's still going to be better than any other commercial device on the market .....and I'm sure I'm not the only one here that still has an old VFX3D sitting in a corner ;)
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by snorelab »

I liked the tone of his review. Nobody here wants to glaze over the shortcomings of the dev kit once they get their hands on one. I do think, however, that there are going to be people who are disappointed with the dev kit and take to the internet to voice their displeasure in a very negative, attention seeking, and unproductive way.

Brace yourselves. :x
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Post by GeraldT »

TheHolyChicken wrote: Watch this video: http://youtu.be/KJo12Hz_BVI?t=9m21s (link takes you straight to quote. The entire video is a great watch, though!)
One of the better videos ... "I wanna fly ..." Once I got my Rift I will setup shop somewhere in Vienna and let people play with the Rift for 5€/5Minutes ... flying costs extra. :D
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Post by Dakor »

GeraldT wrote: Once I got my Rift I will setup shop [...] and let people play with the Rift for 5€/5Minutes ... flying costs extra. :D
That's what I'm telling my friends since I ordered mine :lol:
We could open a chain (for more publicity), your shops would be exclusive in AT and mine in GER :)
(The rest of Europe would of course be equally divided)

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German blogger, enthusiast and developer.
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