November shipments status?

[brantlew]

Very cruel !! I just got a Paypal email with the following title: "Your gifts are here early".

So I ripped open my email to find...

Three gifts
- $5 back: Bill Me Later
- ebay deals: Free shipping
- Paypal Mastercard offer

[space123321]

LOL - oh man I can actually feel your excitement instantly shatter after receiving an email like that!

[FingerFlinger]

Ha ha, I got the same email! Thankfully I saw your post first, so my heart didn't stop.

[Namielus]

Its ironic how hard many people are working already to have content ready for the release of the dev-kit.
After all we are supposed to be getting the dev kit to start developing. I guess thats just proof of the strong potential and enthusiasm.
People are already developing stuff _before_ the dev-kit even arrives.

[PalmerTech]

We are working on November shipments as fast as we can. The situation is a bit different than when I started the Kickstarter, though; The parts are not all entirely off the shelf, getting units before the main run is tough.

I will update when I know, don't worry.

[Additives]

We are working on November shipments as fast as we can. The situation is a bit different than when I started the Kickstarter, though; The parts are not all entirely off the shelf, getting units before the main run is tough.

I will update when I know, don't worry.

I guess lot's must have changed since then. Can't wait to hear about all the work you guys have been doing behind the scenes once the units go out.

[crespo80]

I think their original plan was to order a first batch of components (prior to the engineering of the case assemby line) and ship the 100 November unbuilt units, then order a much larger batch of components including the polished case assembly, and ship the remaining ones.
But now they opted for different components and cannot simply buy them on ebay so it's possible the first 100 units will ship just some days before the others, at the end of the year.
I have waited a lifetime, I can wait a month more

[cybereality]

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I hope people won't be upset having to wait a little longer, though they will be getting a more polished product.

[2EyeGuy]

It's probably the tracker. The new tracker sounds amazing, but it wasn't a finished mass produced product yet. I'm sure it will be worth waiting until December for. There may be other cool stuff though, like maybe a custom driver board. I don't know. But I'll be very impressed when they pull this off.

[alekki]

We are working on November shipments as fast as we can. The situation is a bit different than when I started the Kickstarter, though; The parts are not all entirely off the shelf, getting units before the main run is tough.

I will update when I know, don't worry.

Are you still confident you will be able to ship the devices this year? Or is it possible they will be pushed back to January or even further?

[raijinspecial]

We are working on November shipments as fast as we can. The situation is a bit different than when I started the Kickstarter, though; The parts are not all entirely off the shelf, getting units before the main run is tough.

I will update when I know, don't worry.

Are you still confident you will be able to ship the devices this year? Or is it possible they will be pushed back to January or even further?

I think it means that since some of the parts they will use to build the Rift are either custom or purchased wholesale, probably in very large lots, obtaining small amounts of necessary parts earlier than is required to put together the bulk december orders might not be possible.

[PalmerTech]

We are still on track to ship this year.

[3dvison]

We are still on track to ship this year.

Thats all I ever wanted to hear..That timeline is close enough for me...Well to have it on my doorstep by the 24th of December would be great also..LOL

I bought a 3D FX VooDoo video card in 1999 and the ProMo was that you will get a free copy of Unreal when it is released..I kid you not, it showed up on my doorstep on December 24th, that was a nice surprise.

[cybereality]

[bobjwatts]

Haha, Nice cyber! I keep picturing myself crying in the corner on Christmas day because it hasn't arrived, being an international customer...

[Endothermic]

Don't say that, i've had a few things over the last decade vanish with Australian customs.

I'm still dreading they'll look at it and go... i've heard of this... it's can't be that cheap though they must just be trying to avoid paying tax cos it like that sony thing only its alot better and that sony one is almost $1000 so this is probably actually worth $1500 so lets slap him with GST and customs for that

[Additives]

Don't say that, i've had a few things over the last decade vanish with Australian customs.

I'm still dreading they'll look at it and go... i've heard of this... it's can't be that cheap though they must just be trying to avoid paying tax cos it like that sony thing only its alot better and that sony one is almost $1000 so this is probably actually worth $1500 so lets slap him with GST and customs for that

For the sake of Australian customs, I really hope that the packages are CLEARLY marked as a Developer Device/kit, with the correct value shown. A $300 consumer device should not attract import duty, but I too have heard of the situation you described. Not for a long time, but it happens, and means paying an extra $150-250 for your stuff, or taking MONTHS to fight it, only to find out your goods have been 'misplaced'.

That said, they don't mess with research samples or equipment, and tend not to mess around with anything that looks like it might be for a business, so in this case honest labelling might actually be a plus

[2EyeGuy]

Australia's pretty good, I'm sure they'll let it through customs for free as long as it is properly labelled and has the correct price. Other countries may have problems though, since their customs and tax isn't free.

[Endothermic]

It doesn't really matter if they label it as gift or research or whatever, anything <$1000 (excluding shipping) is tax and gst free. If it has gift on it or say its a retail or business purchase it doesn't matter but the reverse applies as well so if it's marked GIFT but they deem the value of the gift is over $1000 it will get taxed.

So what they put on the label and the value doesn't really matter in a way if the customs person that happens to inspect it sees "RIFT" and doesn't know much about it but has heard its a "VR HMD" and remembers when they went to university they heard one of the departments got a VR HMD for $5000 so gee this thing must really be worth that and not the $300 displayed so time to tax them big time, then your stuffed atleast untill you jump through all the hoops and prove that fools opinion on what it was worth is wrong and the value on it was indeed the correct value.

Thats why I thought in another post it would be a good idea if on the outside packing that customs will see they put on something like 1 x Oculus RIFT please refer to "Oculus RIFT" on www.kickstarter.com to verify value of package.

That said though i'm not really "too" worried about them thinking it's actually worth more then $1000 and trying to tax it, just about it vanishing into the aether. Though while I have had a few thing vanish with customs they have all been dvd's (so easy targets for sticky fingers) so expect it unlikely a package the size of the RIFT will just disappear so I guess i'm not really as worried about customs as I think I am .

[Mart]

From what I can tell, the total UK cost of the Oculus Rift dev kit will be about £282, excluding any foreign credit card fees or exchange rate inflations.

My calculation:
$330 = £206
+ Import duty of 14% based on commodity code 852859402 (£29) = £235
+ VAT of 20% (£47) = £282

[jaybug]

I really doubt customs just value packages on a whim. More likely than not they will just accept whatever the declaration says.

I remember when I imported a PSP, back when that was new. The store was friendly enough to write "$20 toy" on the package. Saved me the 24% tax on the $400 or whatever the PSP was.

Btw, we're screwed either way in Norway, as the normal taxfree import limit is about $40, and even with "gifts" the limit is less than $200.

[jaybug]

From what I can tell, the total UK cost of the Oculus Rift dev kit will be about £282, excluding any foreign credit card fees or exchange rate inflations.

My calculation:
$330 = £206
+ Import duty of 14% based on commodity code 852859402 (£29) = £235
+ VAT of 20% (£47) = £282

Aren't you supposed to leave out the shipping cost when calculating VAT?
Also, should you calculate VAT after adding the import duty?

[2EyeGuy]

I remember when I imported a PSP, back when that was new. The store was friendly enough to write "$20 toy" on the package. Saved me the 24% tax on the $400 or whatever the PSP was.

Btw, we're screwed either way in Norway, as the normal taxfree import limit is about $40, and even with "gifts" the limit is less than $200.

You mean the store was corrupt enough to steal $96 from the Norwegian government. The government uses that money to provide services for you and your fellow Norwegians. Presumably you and your fellow Norwegians voted for that tax because they wanted government services or because they wanted to protect Norwegian industry. But I do sympathise, since I'd hate to have to pay an extra hundred dollars.

[jaybug]

Hey now, don't go attacking the poor canadian store, I'm the tax-cheat who asked for it :p

In any case, no I don't think the people is for the import tax. At least not the people who care about it. There's been alot of talk of increasing the limit, and all the politicians say they wanna do it, but somehow it never gets done.

The thing that makes it suck is that they imposed the limit in 1975. You could probably import a car for that amount back then :p (Actually, the import limit was equivalent to about $200 in todays money, aka 5 times more.)

[troffmo5]

Any information about the parcel service used to ship the Oculus Rift?

[therage79]

From what I can tell, the total UK cost of the Oculus Rift dev kit will be about £282, excluding any foreign credit card fees or exchange rate inflations.

My calculation:
$330 = £206
+ Import duty of 14% based on commodity code 852859402 (£29) = £235
+ VAT of 20% (£47) = £282

Hello mate, can I assume from the above calculation that you are in fact based in the UK? Where about and are you getting a rift? Not to be overly presumptuous, but id love to find someone near me (the midlands) for a hands on experience before I take the plunge.

Yours cheekily lol

Paul

[Mart]

Aren't you supposed to leave out the shipping cost when calculating VAT?

Unfortunately not, you have to include it:

"In the case of goods posted from outside the EU, it is the amount on the Customs Declaration, which includes the price paid for the goods, the cost of transport, postage and packing, insurance and any duty that may be payable." (Source)

Also, should you calculate VAT after adding the import duty?

The £47 is 20% of £235, although I didn't make that clear in my breakdown.

Hello mate, can I assume from the above calculation that you are in fact based in the UK? Where about and are you getting a rift? Not to be overly presumptuous, but id love to find someone near me (the midlands) for a hands on experience before I take the plunge.

I'm getting a Rift and would be happy to demo, but I'm in Bedfordshire. Probably a bit too far

[Namielus]

2EeyeGuy;
(about Norway)
As much as I believe in taxes to benefit the society, there has to be a limit. The way a small item is taxed here is actually more stealing from us than anything else. Let me tell you about how it is here.
If the item is more expensive the fees make more sense, but it does not only go to the goverment. Our postal service takes a good chunk of the tax simply for putting into a computer if it needs taxation or not.

Anything below 35usd and its tax and vat free. But once it goes one dollar above there is suddenly 25% vat/import duty to the government, and suddenly the Norwegian postal service wants a "toll handling charge" of 20 friggin dollars just to add the 25%.
That's in addition to the charge it takes for normal shipping.

You also pay value added tax for the shipping that is +25%.
But even without that a 35.5 dollar item suddenly becomes 35.5+25% =44,4usd + 20usd handling charge = 64usd.

I think I pay enough already without doubling the price to make some companies pocket thicker. Its not about getting better schools or anything, its about easy money for the postal service. Can I use a different mail delivery service to avoid this? No they have a monopoly. They don't just use toll to protect Norwegian companies, they actually have import bans.
For example grocery stores cannot import certain types of cheese and butter.
And about the money I use to pay with. I pay close to 50% taxes on my income.
Just to own a tv, you have to pay a yearly license fee of 500 dollars + price and taxes on whatever subscriptions you have.

I am sounding like I am anti-taxes here, but don't get me wrong. I just want to illustrate how extreme Norway is compared to other countries and somehow explain why many people are sleezing out of the minor things they can.

Our government has _zero_ debt. In fact our government has a growing fund of money presently at more than 700 billion dollars in total. That's our money, and its a more than 140 000 dollars per citizen.

Now I think it would be a stupid idea to hand it all out, I am simply saying that Norway is a special case and given how much we pay in income taxes and a crazy amount of fees and charges - the government will not suffer from some people sleezing their way out of the vat/toll charges from time to time.

In the case of Oculus Rift btw, it is a very valid discussion as it is in fact not a normal consumer product even if treated as such.
It is closer to a tool for developing a platform and having developers do research and feedback to Oculus + develop content.
I would say its in the gray zone as a prototype. Please don't read this as a rant, I am not the type to rage on the internet.


I just find this discussion interesting. Btw, I am not personally complaining, I am just defending some others.

[2EyeGuy]

Norway does sound a bit extreme, but I've noticed Norway tends to appear right at the top of lists of the best countries in the world, so they seem to be doing something right. Although Australia tends to come second, so their way works too.

[Namielus]

Yes, we have it good.
However, someone else having it worse does not remove your right to be unhappy about something or wanting change.
For all the good things in Norway there are definitely things that should change soon.
I am not talking about removing fees/taxes completely , maybe just scale and make more sense.

Lets say I buy a Camaro in sweden , our neighbor. I can get a camaro there for 50 000 dollars used.
You know how much the import fees/enviroment taxes and all will total?
50 000 dollars for the car 120 000 dollars in fees/taxes thank you very much.

No I am not lying.

[therage79]

Hello mate, can I assume from the above calculation that you are in fact based in the UK? Where about and are you getting a rift? Not to be overly presumptuous, but id love to find someone near me (the midlands) for a hands on experience before I take the plunge.

I'm getting a Rift and would be happy to demo, but I'm in Bedfordshire. Probably a bit too far [/quote]

Well its closer that Edinburgh, which is the only other person I have checked with...but yeah I was hoping you were closer lol!

Thanks anyway..and i'll have to wait for all your excited feedback on here as to whether its worth the mileage lol!

Paul

[zacherynuk]

Import duty rate of 2.9% and VAT rate of 20% .
Duty result for item display prototype is nil because the total amount of duty payable for this item is less than £9.00

When I run through http://www.dutycalculator.com with product category: 3d Glasses (9004901000)

[crespo80]

Here in Italy, customs is a real pain in the ass:

If a standard service is used (say USPS priority) the package is "parked" in our customs offices for OVER A MONTH until someone, at his own discretion, decides if it has to be taxed or not and how much.

If a private courier is used (say UPS or FedeX), the package bypasses the normal customs because it's always taxed over the declared value (by 25%) and usually takes a week.

I prefer the certainty of an express courier service, I'm sure it will arrive within days even if I'm sure to pay the duty, so I hope they'll go that way, or at least the USPS express

[Nick3DvB]

Import duty rate of 2.9% and VAT rate of 20% .
Duty result for item display prototype is nil because the total amount of duty payable for this item is less than £9.00

When I run through http://www.dutycalculator.com with product category: 3d Glasses (9004901000)

I spoke to UK customs (HMRC) about this the other day and they said that the DIY Rifts (first 100 un-assembled kits) should be treated as “commercial samples” and are therefore exempt from all UK taxes, but the sender must state this clearly on the outside of the package and also on the customs declaration form (CN22), they have recommended using this specific wording:

TAX RELIEF CLAIMED: Commercial sample of negligible value
( Inoperable / Incomplete / Unassembled Prototype )

The guy I spoke to said that the kit, as shipped, is considered to be of negligible retail value as it needs some expertise to assemble and is missing a vital component (software), it should probably also be exempt on the grounds that it will be used for “research purposes” and to encourage orders of the final retail product.

The worst case scenario is that the components are taxed individually (the LCD screen alone would push it over the threshold), and the shipment may even need to be seized for “extended classification”. When it is finally delivered the courier will request payment for import tax, sales tax (VAT) and additional couriers “handling fees” which could total over $150!

But if the wording above is used we shouldn't be charged or have the shipment delayed. Oculus should be assured that any disputes with HMRC are raised by the recipient, the sender will not be contacted by them and has no liability of any sort, I know they must all be really busy but if they could see this is done for UK shipments it should save us all a lot of grief.

[LazloTheGreat]

So, I'm thinking, given the fast approach to November's end and the upcoming holiday, as well as just having recently settled into their business location, and all that I imagine must go into trying to make sure such a huge shipment of multi-tech component-dependent product would be QC'd and confirmed ready for developer primetime, not to mention Palmer Luckey's, no doubt, need to prep at least somewhat for his upcoming commitment in London... that we may all need to graciously let go of the expectation for a November update on surprise features, let alone a November ship date for the unassembled prototype kit for those who ordered that one (and possibly December shipdate for the assembled).

I'd presume that with so much intense emotions surrounding anticipation of the Oculus Rift's arrival, there would be an understandably natural hesitancy to potentially trigger negative response by declaring delays until absolutely certain such delays couldn't be avoided. Better to focus all efforts on burning the midnight oil, which they surely are, seeing if said delays might still be avoided, possibly sparing developer and early adopter anxiety, then only declaring such a delay in the final event that they might ultimately be deemed unavoidable.

But, I say, in the name of supporting their amazingly tireless and passionate efforts to bring something wondrously fun to our worlds, and in fairness to their originally slated shipdates having only been declared from the start on their ends as "estimates" and not "deadlines," and finally, in the name of their wanting to do it right rather than rushed (as so many other tech companies have made the mistake of doing), let's alleviate the hard-working Oculus Team of a little of THEIR anxiety, and extend them a gracious understanding of any potentially well-needed use of extra time to maintain the quality aspired toward in the release of their product, as well as the mutable leeway to give status updates only when comfortably knowing they can finally back them up with informed confirmation in due course, despite however otherwise anxiously expected. Perhaps, though I might be counted among those that will inevitably fail, we can make a fairly concerted effort to put delivery dates and updates out-of-mind from this day forward, only to have them surprisingly return from the forgotten on that fated day in the future when we get an unexpected email notification.

Meanwhile, and in the very same vein, I think I'll simply wish the Oculus Team (--[GRUNT] [STRAIN]-- presently beating back down my Anticipation Monster) a little more productive breathing room and in more ways than one... a Very Happy Thanksgiving.

[Mel]

So, I'm thinking, given the fast approach to November's end and the upcoming holiday, as well as just having recently settled into their business location, and all that I imagine must go into trying to make sure such a huge shipment of multi-tech component-dependent product would be QC'd and confirmed ready for developer primetime, not to mention Palmer Luckey's, no doubt, need to prep at least somewhat for his upcoming commitment in London... that we may all need to graciously let go of the expectation for a November update on surprise features, let alone a November ship date for the unassembled prototype kit for those who ordered that one (and possibly December shipdate for the assembled). I'd presume that with so much intense emotions surrounding anticipation of the Oculus Rift's arrival, there would be an understandably natural hesitancy to potentially trigger negative response by declaring delays until absolutely certain such delays couldn't be avoided. Better to focus all efforts on burning the midnight oil, which they surely are, seeing if said delays might still be avoided, possibly sparing developer and early adopter anxiety, then only declaring such a delay in the final event that they might ultimately be deemed unavoidable. But, I say, in the name of supporting their amazingly tireless and passionate efforts to bring something wondrously fun to our worlds, and in fairness to their originally slated shipdates having only been declared from the start on their ends as "estimates" and not "deadlines," and finally, in the name of their wanting to do it right rather than rushed (as so many other tech companies have made the mistake of doing), let's alleviate the hard-working Oculus Team of a little of THEIR anxiety, and extend them a gracious understanding of any potentially well-needed use of extra time to maintain the quality aspired toward in the release of their product, as well as the mutable leeway to give status updates only when comfortably knowing they can finally back them up with informed confirmation in due course, despite however otherwise anxiously expected. Perhaps, though I might be counted among those that will inevitably fail, we can make a fairly concerted effort to put delivery dates and updates out-of-mind from this day forward, only to have them surprisingly return from the forgotten on that fated day in the future when we get an unexpected email notification. Meanwhile, and in the very same vein, I think I'll simply wish the Oculus Team (--[GRUNT] [STRAIN]-- presently beating back down my Anticipation Monster) a little more productive breathing room and in more ways than one... a Very Happy Thanksgiving.

Let's give a warm welcome to Oculus's new PR/Image Management team. Very nice seeding for the inevitable announcement...



(Welcome LTG)

[Namielus]

I remember some people raging even before the Kickstarter. Some forum rage is inevitable if they announce a delay.
I can personally wait as long as it takes for Oculus to deliver the product they want to stand behind proudly.

[Dycus]

I like this new guy!

[bobjwatts]

Yes, I may cry myself to sleep if there are delays, but ultimately we all want an awesome product.

Go team Oculus!

@LazloTheGreat - needs more carriage return.

[Callezetter]

@LazloTheGreat

Great post, but that post needs some more spacing mate Extremely hard to read, and
you exellent point vanish behind an wall of text.