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 InfinitEye V2, a 210° HFOV HMD to become a real product 
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:47 am
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Location: Toulouse, France
Hi guys !

Attachment:
InfinitEye.png


After months of hard work I finally managed to finish the new and improved version of the InfinitEye prototype, just in time to be able to enter a contest organized by Samsung France. It's called "launching people". The winner will gain the support of a professional entrepreneur chosen by Samsung in addition of a 100k€ envelop to develop the project.
With two very good friends of mine we are trying to develop the dual screen concept, make it available for enthousiats and promote VR, the passion we all share in this community, to the general public.
The first 2 steps of this contest is to obtain a maximum of votes on the project page on facebook and I need you for that right now. The good thing is that we believe we can make it with your support, international voters are allowed according to the contest rules. It doesn't cost anything but a single click on the "support" button :) and it automatically adds your profile for a free lotery with Samsung products in the end.
We really want VR to be the next technological revolution and this contest is a great opportunity to gain visibility in Europe.

Here is the link to see the page : https://apps.facebook.com/launchingpeople-fr/project/infiniteye-la-realite-virtuelle-accessible-a-tous/

Don't forget to click on the "support" button and if you want, tell your friends on your networks to do the same. We can make this happen :)

There is not much text but it is in french so I can make a translation for you if you want.

PS: I hope this is not against the rules of the forum, I'm in no way affiliated with Samsung (otherwise I would not have been able to enter the contest), please tell me if something is not OK :)
PS2: We also wanted to thank Oculus VR for the tuscany demo assets, we used them only to make the video because we couldn't finish our own demo environment in time to enter the contest, we will not be using them afterwards if this goes beyond the initial steps, don't worry (I really hope it's OK but I'm sure you guys are cool with it :))
PS3: Oh and if it was possible to have a news on the MTBS3D front page it would be so great :)

Thank you MTBS3D community! feel free to ask any question :)

edit : maybe the "support" button is not translated into english, so if it is in french it's "soutenir" :)


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InfinitEye - 210° HFOV HMD


Last edited by foisi on Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:32 am
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Cross Eyed!
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Hey Man, This is awesome! Looks similar to Portal Dual, but love the head strap! :mrgreen:

Sure man, I'll pay attention to it!!! :mrgreen:

Good luck !!

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Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:46 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Thanks hannibalj2 ;)

here is the video we put in the facebook page for the contest


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InfinitEye - 210° HFOV HMD


Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:09 am
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Cross Eyed!
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The FOV is crazy!!! :woot

My Portal Dual unit will stick to between 160-180 FOV (first proto), 210 FOV is something else. I will do a video as well and see how it performs.

The Tuscanny Demo must look great inside the Infinite. How did you manage to get the Tuscanny to work with the Yei Sensor?

Is there any blurring on the image when you turn your head like with the Rift?

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Portal Dual 180+ HFOV HMD: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18335

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Last edited by Hannibalj2 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:58 am, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:20 am
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Petrif-Eyed
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Cool. Looking good.


Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:51 am
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Cross Eyed!
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Supported. Good luck!


Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:50 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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As much as I'm happy about InfinitEye, I really have to post this.



Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:16 pm
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:47 am
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That was funny :D
By the way I had a good reason to shoot this sequence vertically. I had to find a way to keep the camera sensor within the exit pupil and even if it is quite large, I couldn't take the entire field of view holding my iphone horizontally :)

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Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:02 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hi foisi. First time caller, longtime listener.

InfinitEye looks badass, and I hope it goes far. More to the point...I hope I get to buy one some day.

How much will weight be a problem with two screens?

Is the FOV total? As in, no screen edges or black borders no matter where you look?

How hard would it be for developers to support both Oculus Rift and InfinitEye? I don't know much about this stuff, I just like to read the forum and see the progress happening in VR.

Keep those videos coming!


Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:45 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Was already impressed with the previous version, now even more impressed! So fresnel lenses seem like a great idea as there's much less chromatic aberration, are lightweight, and quite cheap too.

Watching your progress with great interest. :)


Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:29 am
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:45 am
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This is looking really great, foisi.

Can you comment on how you drive two screens?

Also, any plan to release instructions for DIYers?


Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:02 am
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Petrif-Eyed
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I would expect there is a limit on the sharpness you can get with the fresnels just because of the nature of the technology. So maybe there is a "sweet-spot" in resolution where the size of the pixel and the resolvable details through the fresnels coincides nicely - and even enhances the display because of the filtering characteristics of the fresnels on the screen door. However, would this quality be preserved at higher resolutions? Would higher pixel densities just smear out? Can higher resolution fresnels be theoretically constructed to compensate?


Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:34 am
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Very cool foisi, glad you're taking this forward.

Supported. Come on MTBS people!!


Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:18 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I'm watching this thread closely... very closely... as every other lurker around, PatimPatam. Is there going to be a kickstarter for InfinitEye, after the Samsung competition you spoke of?


Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:06 am
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blindboxes wrote:
I'm watching this thread closely... very closely... as every other lurker around, PatimPatam. Is there going to be a kickstarter for InfinitEye, after the Samsung competition you spoke of?

Subscribe to the issue. foisi why do not you start at the same time the company to Kickstarter? You already have buyers ;)


Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:18 am
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Petrif-Eyed
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Félicitations ! :) Good job on putting this together, looking forward for it.

Do you think it would be possible to have a higher vertical FOV (90° currently) at the expense of a little bit smaller horizontal FOV or isn't it possible because of the fresnel lenses ? Also, what is the current horizontal FOV for each eye, it was 121° in the previous version but I guess it's a bit higher now since the full horizontal FOV was 180° (210° now).


Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:32 am
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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this device has style. :D
Have you already heard of this new near-focus technology from http://www.innovega-inc.com?
Not that i dont like this stylish VR-helmet but i would love to see a device that would make use of these new ultra-near focus contact lenses.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:09 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Have you considered using 5.5" 1080P screens or similar sized FHD screens?


Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:03 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I mentioned this in your other thread but why not just use 2 hdmi cables and set up the display as a dual monitor eyefinity? Also, 2 1080p 5.5" lcd screens would make the product smaller and lighter, no? And possibly would reduce the amount of unused fov.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:24 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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LuckyDog wrote:
I mentioned this in your other thread but why not just use 2 hdmi cables and set up the display as a dual monitor eyefinity? Also, 2 1080p 5.5" lcd screens would make the product smaller and lighter, no? And possibly would reduce the amount of unused fov.


Not related to the creator but here's some answers. Leaving the synchronization to a third party is a bad idea (you're at their mercy), and that's why you don't use 2 hdmi cables and you don't let the graphics card do the syncing. 2 5.5" is indeed lighter, but the FOV will decrease, unless there's a lens setup of InfinitEye that I do not know of. Two 7" 1920x1200 screens is where it's at. Nexus 7 2 is using it. Also, there is actually no unused FOV. The human eye has an FOV of 180 degrees, and if you could rotate your eye to the very edge (you don't normally do this because of the eye strain it causes), you get 270 degrees. 210 degrees is still within the eye spec, and I think it's a good number, in fact.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:00 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Very cool, Foisi! Looking forward to seeing where you go with this.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:09 pm
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:47 am
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Thanks guys, I'll try to do my best to answer a majority of your questions :)

eyeandeye wrote:
How much will weight be a problem with two screens?

Is the FOV total? As in, no screen edges or black borders no matter where you look?

How hard would it be for developers to support both Oculus Rift and InfinitEye? I don't know much about this stuff, I just like to read the forum and see the progress happening in VR.

Not that much, the InfinitEye is only 380gr and that's for the prototype :)
no black borders at all, with a minimal loss of pixels on the edges maximizing angular resolution.
(A total FOV would be near 270° but 210° is not that bad ;))
I don't know yet how hard it would be for developers to support different VR technologies, but I think once a game is designed with VR in mind, it makes it much easier.

brantlew wrote:
I would expect there is a limit on the sharpness you can get with the fresnels just because of the nature of the technology. So maybe there is a "sweet-spot" in resolution where the size of the pixel and the resolvable details through the fresnels coincides nicely - and even enhances the display because of the filtering characteristics of the fresnels on the screen door. However, would this quality be preserved at higher resolutions? Would higher pixel densities just smear out? Can higher resolution fresnels be theoretically constructed to compensate?

That's a good question Brantlew, when I first tried the fresnel lenses I was making focus with printed stuff (with largely much higher density than a FHD 7" screen would be) and I didn't notice any of these problems. I'll check it again for you if you want next week :)
Lower pitch fresnels would be better I guess, reducing the thickness and the weight but I'm not sure how much impact it can have on image quality.

Fredz wrote:
Félicitations ! Good job on putting this together, looking forward for it.

Do you think it would be possible to have a higher vertical FOV (90° currently) at the expense of a little bit smaller horizontal FOV or isn't it possible because of the fresnel lenses ? Also, what is the current horizontal FOV for each eye, it was 121° in the previous version but I guess it's a bit higher now since the full horizontal FOV was 180° (210° now).

Merci Fredz ;)

It could be possible but with a different lens configuration. However the vertical FOV is great at 90° since I centered it a little below the horizon so it matches better to human perception. Actually it was not 121° per eye, I used a wrong way to compute the FOV explained in the other thread (using the center of the eyeball instead of the center of pupil). So you can compute that easily : total FoV / 2 + (3D overlap / 2) = 150° per eye

magixx wrote:
Have you considered using 5.5" 1080P screens or similar sized FHD screens?

Yes, two 7" 1920x1200 (better than FHD) would be awesome ! I'm looking forward to seeing if the new Nexus 7 panel could be usable.

LuckyDog wrote:
I mentioned this in your other thread but why not just use 2 hdmi cables and set up the display as a dual monitor eyefinity? Also, 2 1080p 5.5" lcd screens would make the product smaller and lighter, no? And possibly would reduce the amount of unused fov.

Actually the dual cable setup doesn't have sync issues with my GTX 660, I don't use the Zotac adapter anymore and I just have to plug the cables into the 2 DVI outputs of it (no need of special software). However if this goes beyond the contest it would be great to design a special controller board that takes DP and 2xHDMI to drive both screens simultaneously :)

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Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:37 am
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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foisi: Amazing work! Obvious question : have you thought of joining forces with Oculus, or are you determined to go it alone? Have you spoken with the Oculus guys?

Thanks


Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:46 am
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
Very cool, Foisi! Looking forward to seeing where you go with this.

Many thanks Palmer, I really appreciate your interest, it's always nice to have a positive feedback from you! I definitely like what you are doing for VR ! By the way I wouldn't mind getting a little boost for the Samsung France contest, feel completely free to share the video to your network ;)
Thanks again! cheers

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Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:50 am
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Looks very nice! I can't wait to see some 3rd party reviews of it. Hope you can get around to some shows with it!

Does the separator between the views ever stand out? (Probably while looking from side to side if anything I'd imagine.)

Looking at your prototype, I wonder. Does it fit well and look good for people with smaller heads, or fit at all on people with modestly larger heads? It's just that the curve of everything makes me feel its sort of sculpted for a single head shape/size.

I didn't follow the other thread very well, so maybe its been answered in some way. But how readable is text compared to the Rift? (If you're able to compare.)

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Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:42 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Looks great so how is that resolution? Good enough or do you still see pixels and screendoor?


Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:07 am
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foisi wrote:
I don't know yet how hard it would be for developers to support different VR technologies, but I think once a game is designed with VR in mind, it makes it much easier.
You could talk to the developers of OpenHMD, it's an open source library that intends to support the Rift and other HMDs and is already used in several projects :
- Neverball and Neverputt for the Oculus Rift
- Oculus Rift Support In Blender Game Engine
- MassiveEngine support for Oculus Rift


Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:06 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hi! Tried to visit the facebook page but for some reason its not loading correctly, so I'm unable to "support" you. Looks awesome though!

I was really happy to see this project! I love what palmer is doing with the rift, but for me high FOV is sooooo important to real immersion, and I fear that the rift won't expand much beyond its current fov. The rifts current fov is nice, but its still not enough for that completely immersive feel. Every time I put it on, I'm almost all the way in the viritual world, but not quite!

Keep up the awesome work! I really thinkg that high FOV is the way to go, even if it requires a dual display. I want to be in the world, even if it costs me a grand to get there:)


Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:08 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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@DarkAkuma
I'm not sure to get the question right but the separator is absolutely not visible even if you try hard to do see it.

btw, text is clearly visible, I will try to make a picture through the lenses next week to show it to you :)

@Fredz
I already thought about it and I think it's a very good idea to have an open source software multi HMD support

@ammonthenephite
Maybe it was because you tried to load the app from a smartphone or tablet, I'm afraid it doesn't work very well on other device than computers and we can't do anything about it... I feel sorry that people need to vote through a facebook app...

----

For information, the guys who have the lead in the contest in our category have ~1300 votes (not evolving for a week) and currently we got 159 (in 3 days), I think it's not impossible to beat them if the whole community wants it to become a reality, so it's up to you guys, spread the word :)

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Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:06 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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foisi wrote:
Actually the dual cable setup doesn't have sync issues with my GTX 660, I don't use the Zotac adapter anymore and I just have to plug the cables into the 2 DVI outputs of it (no need of special software). However if this goes beyond the contest it would be great to design a special controller board that takes DP and 2xHDMI to drive both screens simultaneously :)


I think going pure DP is the way to go. They support 2560x1600x2 with a single cable. Plus, your graphics card is bound to have DP if it's going to be capable of driving this HMD :). That's something to think about in the future.

Anyway, a lot of people here seems to be worried about the Fresnel's effect on image quality/warping issue/eye strain. Can you tell us how it was like for you?

I'll quote a post from reddit.

Quote:
By DrakenZA:
Im not talking about syncing and Latency.
With the rift, your eyes are always looking and focusing at infinity on a single screen and that screen doesn't get closer or further away from your eyes.
With the InfinitEye, when you look to your left with your eyes, your left eye is looking at the left most side of the one screen and your right eye is looking at the left most side of its screen. The problem is because the screens are angled, your left eye is looking at a surface that is much closer to your eye than what your right eye is seeing.
The 3d effect still works, but your eyes get really sore within minutes compared to a rift. And you will never get 'vr legs' for such a problem.


Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:36 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Thanks for pointing this out to me, do you think I should subscribe to reddit too?
Anyway you could tell the guy that he got a wrong idea on how optics works. The rays from each pixel come in parallel through the lens to the eye so the distance doesn't matter. I answered a similar question from Palmer in a previous post, here is the picture I made to illustrate it

Attachment:
always_focus.png


and another one to illustrate that in the rift there are situations when your two eyes doesn't have the same distance to a fixed area on the screen (and that doesn't have any impact on focus)

Attachment:
rift_focus_diff.png


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Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:49 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Its a bit confusing in your illustration because the screens arent at an angle.


Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:45 am
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Cross Eyed!

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In the first picture it's only one eyeball, one screen and one lens (I'm sure you can imagine this drawing with the second eye ;))
In the second one it's the Rift with its single screen, two lenses and two eyeballs

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Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:35 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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foisi wrote:
In the first picture it's only one eyeball, one screen and one lens (I'm sure you can imagine this drawing with the second eye ;))
In the second one it's the Rift with its single screen, two lenses and two eyeballs


Ah thanks man, it totally makes sense now.

One more stupid question. :oops: In the rift example it looks like the eyes are looking in different directions. How is this possible?
Wait nevermind. It's only for close range objects I think I see what you're getting at.


Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:53 am
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foisi wrote:
In the first picture it's only one eyeball, one screen and one lens (I'm sure you can imagine this drawing with the second eye ;))
In the second one it's the Rift with its single screen, two lenses and two eyeballs


Or maybe the Rift image explains why there is still something 'not right' with the 3D, even though it's quite a bit better than any other 3D viewer I've ever used?


Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:17 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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foisi wrote:
Thanks for pointing this out to me, do you think I should subscribe to reddit too?
Anyway you could tell the guy that he got a wrong idea on how optics works. The rays from each pixel come in parallel through the lens to the eye so the distance doesn't matter. I answered a similar question from Palmer in a previous post, here is the picture I made to illustrate it

Attachment:
always_focus.png


and another one to illustrate that in the rift there are situations when your two eyes doesn't have the same distance to a fixed area on the screen (and that doesn't have any impact on focus)

Attachment:
rift_focus_diff.png


You should definitely subscribe to the reddit, especially since you're going completely serious with this. There's some misinformation spread around and people being skeptical about Fresnels. I have never tried such a setup myself so I don't really know what to expect. I understood your explanations but it doesn't seem to get across to others.

I'd say the main problem here is that you're one of the few that has tried such a setup :) .


Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:29 am
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Cross Eyed!

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I answered to the main controversial questions there but I don't know how reddit works, the thread seems to stay on the 4th page (not much visibility :/)
http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1jm125/infiniteye_v2_a_210_hfov_hmd_to_become_a_real/

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Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:32 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Don't worry. As more see it and "upvote" it, it will move towards the front page of the oculus sub-reddit. But be warned, many a good person has lost their soul to reddit....once it sucks you in, there is no turning back:) As of now your post is #25 on the first page of r/oculus actually.


Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:17 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Awesome foisi! Best of luck to you! :)

As I've mentioned before, I'm really interested in any potential benefits that can be had from custom, high-quality fresnel lenses. It would be really great if you could maintain such a large FoV with 1080p panels in the 4-5" range.


Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:09 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Thanks MSat :) (for those who don't know, MSat is the guy who found the name InfinitEye)
I'm not sure that custom fresnel lenses could be made to fit perfectly the needs to maintain a 210° FoV with 4-5" lcd but if it is, and if we are able to continue developing the project, that's one thing we can look into :)

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Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:33 pm
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