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 Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter 
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Petrif-Eyed
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@Nick3DvB: Beyond the technical aspects of viewing video, I think the Rift would not generally be a good platform for video content. The FOV is just too big - like sitting in the front row at the theater except worse because you can't even move your head to look at other parts of the screen. Video would need to be shot and framed specifically so that all the action was contained within a tiny central part of the screen. Probably some iMax and Omni-Max movies are shot this way and would look great but most content would be overwhelming and incomprehensible. :shock:


Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:53 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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That's exactly what I was worried about, but it might be interesting to try and shoot some content specifically designed for the RIFT, to see what works. For regular 3D films I was hoping we could just scale them down into a smaller centralized window to achieve a similar "floating TV" experience to the Sony HMD, I'd like to try it but we would probably want to wait for a much higher resolution panel.


Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:06 pm
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Cross Eyed!
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I had always wondered how comfortable it would be looking at a "floating TV" if that TV would move around with any head movement. The Rift could theoretically have the ability to hold the TV stationary if it had head tracking.

Joe Dunfee


Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:03 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Can anyone elaborate a bit more on what else will be needed besides the Kickstarter Rift package?

I really want to get in on this, but also want to make sure that I'm able to run it once I do get it.

Sorry, I'm still a bit new as to how this gear all interfaces together.

Thanks.


Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:30 pm
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Certif-Eyable!

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@Alkapwn (lol.. I just got your name after typing it)

From my understanding, it depends on the kit you opt for. The top of the line should include everything you need (the HMD, head tracker, and a copy of DooM3: BFG) except for a computer with DVI/HDMI out - not sure if it will support VGA. The other option would be just the HMD, leaving it up to you to get your own head tracker if you want it.

Hopefully the optional head tracker will already include the firmware John Carmack demo'd. Though I imagine it would be as simple as running a program to do it yourself.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:17 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:06 pm
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Alkapwn wrote:
Once I get a Kickstarter kit, with headtracker and a copy of Doom 3, is there anything else that I would need computer wise to be able to use this?


If your computer was made in the last few years, you should have no problems. :) All you need is a DVI or HDMI port on your graphics card and a USB 2.0 input for the tracker.

As for using the Rift for video content... Well, if you scale it down to the right aspect ratio, you lose a ton of resolution. If you crop the video, you end up with a really small camera FOV spread over a huge visual FOV. I would probably avoid it. :P


Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:50 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:46 pm
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cadcoke5 wrote:
I had always wondered how comfortable it would be looking at a "floating TV" if that TV would move around with any head movement. The Rift could theoretically have the ability to hold the TV stationary if it had head tracking.

Joe Dunfee


It is quite annoying and you lose focus the instant the movement of your head is too big.
(I have a HMD-t1) It is a great device to hook up to a ps3 and play games in 3d while lying in your bed.
If only the disorientation wasn't a kicker when you stop gaming :P


Palmertech, Already Ideas what sort of display tech (res and screentype) you want to use in your next version of the rift?
I personally like the 720p oled displays in my sony hmd. They are really gorgeous. Also the quick switching that they are capable of is really great so thats great for gaming. (but 720p is already a bit low for me) Gimme 4k res for each eye or something. And a supercomputer to get it to run all my games with all the effects turned on :P)


Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:08 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Torchedini wrote:
Palmertech, Already Ideas what sort of display tech (res and screentype) you want to use in your next version of the rift?
I personally like the 720p oled displays in my sony hmd. They are really gorgeous. Also the quick switching that they are capable of is really great so thats great for gaming. (but 720p is already a bit low for me) Gimme 4k res for each eye or something. And a supercomputer to get it to run all my games with all the effects turned on :P)


Looking at 6.1" Toshiba displays, 2560x1600 IPS panels. Would be really great. :) The HMZ-T1 OLED panels have a fast switching time, but that is marred by the pretty high latency, about 50ms.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:33 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Just posted this to this funding discussion thread, head there if you want to give input: viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15030&p=74430#p74430


PalmerTech wrote:
After reading the feedback here, doing a ton of research on my own, and talking to of the other people helping me with the project, here is what I think I am going to do:

Stage 1: Take a limited number of pre-Kickstarter orders from members on the forum

This will let me bypass the Kickstarter fees on the first couple units, which gives me more money to put towards the project. These orders will be for the HMD only, not any of the accessories (Motion tracker, wireless video link, battery pack, long/thin cables, etc). The reason for this is that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that even if the Kickstarter fails, I know I can deliver at least those HMDs. If the Kickstarter is successful, then all those extra accessories will be available on the Oculus website, probably at a slightly reduced price for all the early-early adopters. These units will have some kind of unique marking laser cut into them to indicate your super-cool status. :lol: I will save some of these funds for the main batch, and use some of them to order pre-production parts to make a few prototypes for people who can get the Rift even more attention by integrating it with their projects.

Stage 2: Take the project to Kickstarter

This fulfills Carmack's promise in the interviews that it would go to Kickstarter, and hopefully gets it mass exposure (If not adoption). There will be several different bundles containing the different extras, and a few smaller rewards that are cheap/free to deliver for people who just want to show support for the project. I plan on running it for 60 days, and while I know that is long for a Kickstarter, there is a reason: QuakeCon. It has a lot of attendees who would be interested in the Rift, and most of them are already going to buy Doom 3 BFG! A 60 day project would put the end of the Kickstarter right around QuakeCon, the perfect time for a big push. Yeah, the fees are a bitch, but the advantages are worth the financial hit; A sentiment that anyone else with a significant other understands, eh? ;)

Stage 3: Order all the parts, wait for the truckloads of components to arrive, and then right to work!

If it is only 100 units, then I will be able to do all the work myself. If it gets more attention than expected, I have some friends who would be willing to help; We will order a few pizzas and cases of Mt. Dew, run movies on my projector, and test, assemble, and package all the kits. Testing is going to take the longest, but I do not want to ship out anything with faults. If a panel has even one dead pixel, it will not be going in the kit.

Stage 4: Shipping, support, community building

Pretty self explanatory. I am not going to be giving much in the way of after-sale support, but any problems that are my fault will obviously be taken care of. From there, the community will have a great HMD to use in their projects, and I will hopefully have some new tools and machines that I can use to work on future upgrades or products. :)

Let me know what you guys think, going to crosspost this to the main Rift thread. If nobody has any really great ideas or changes, pre-Kickstarter orders will start tomorrow and run through Friday.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:34 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:04 pm
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I'm having some trouble finding the blue prints for the Rift, this might be cause its not out yet but I just have some technical questions about dimensions and power usage etc. Any link, or even just the info that they arn't out to the public yet would be appreciated.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:49 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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BrockSamson wrote:
I'm having some trouble finding the blue prints for the Rift, this might be cause its not out yet but I just have some technical questions about dimensions and power usage etc. Any link, or even just the info that they arn't out to the public yet would be appreciated.


It is because they are not finalized, all the plans and such will be available at some point during the Kickstarter project when the design is locked down.

The current prototype is about 7" wide, 5" tall, and 3" deep. The weight, not including cables, is about 0.6lbs. Power consumption is about 600ma at 5v, it has an onboard regulator that can handle up to 12v.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:46 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Awesomely quick reply, very excited to begin tinkering, a heart felt thanks for taking care on the lions share of the tech work and making the rift available to us!


Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:05 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I've been kinda wondering lately. It's very apparent that this initial release of the rift is gonna be aimed more towards the hacker/homebrew community than average consumer or pc users in order to try to get the product into capable hands that have the skills to get the ball rolling. So I'm wondering if there's a danger of the product falling into the hands of a majority crowd that have no experience coding or programing or whatever. you know, someone like me (who is very, very, VERY interested in this doohickey. Yes. My money will most likely be flying your way). Wouldn't something like that slow down the progress of this thing?

Another thing, Since I first heard about the oculus rift 3 days ago, I've been scouring the intertubes for any and all information about it and I could've of sworn I read some mention about a group buy for higher quality displays when they become available. From what I know, palmer and carmack are holding out for those Toshiba displays. If a group buy is indeed what will happen, is that something that will be done through kickstarter? Or would that be independent from it? I honestly don't know why I'm so hung up on the resolution of the thing. I guess since I've never experienced something like this, I just don't really know what to expect and I'm getting cold feet.

Either way, I'm rooting for you palmer/carmack. Definitely throwing my support behind this. I'm sure alot of others feel the same.

P.S. Thanks for keeping the target price at $500. For a broke college student like me, that's a godsend. definitely got to thrown in a little extra to help you afford that pizza.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:27 pm
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Certif-Eyable!

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With the low resolution and high FOV, not to mention requiring warping, I don't think the average person will care for a Rift over a ST1080 or a HMZ. However, that could change once Doom 3 BFG is released since it supports it. However, I suspect the majority of non enthusiasts will look at specs like resolution first, rather than FOV. Good concern however.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:49 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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aurelius wrote:
I've been kinda wondering lately. It's very apparent that this initial release of the rift is gonna be aimed more towards the hacker/homebrew community than average consumer or pc users in order to try to get the product into capable hands that have the skills to get the ball rolling. So I'm wondering if there's a danger of the product falling into the hands of a majority crowd that have no experience coding or programing or whatever. you know, someone like me (who is very, very, VERY interested in this doohickey. Yes. My money will most likely be flying your way). Wouldn't something like that slow down the progress of this thing?

Another thing, Since I first heard about the oculus rift 3 days ago, I've been scouring the intertubes for any and all information about it and I could've of sworn I read some mention about a group buy for higher quality displays when they become available. From what I know, palmer and carmack are holding out for those Toshiba displays. If a group buy is indeed what will happen, is that something that will be done through kickstarter? Or would that be independent from it? I honestly don't know why I'm so hung up on the resolution of the thing. I guess since I've never experienced something like this, I just don't really know what to expect and I'm getting cold feet.

Either way, I'm rooting for you palmer/carmack. Definitely throwing my support behind this. I'm sure alot of others feel the same.

P.S. Thanks for keeping the target price at $500. For a broke college student like me, that's a godsend. definitely got to thrown in a little extra to help you afford that pizza.


I plan on warning people on the Kickstarter page very clearly, along the lines of "If you just want to play games using a screen on your face, don't buy this! Get an ST1080 or an HMZ-T1, you will be much happier!", if they still decide to go for it, well, they should know what they are getting into. I don't think it will slow down progress as long as I can supply enough units to go around.

A group buy for the Toshiba panels would probably be done independently of Kickstarter, since it would be targeted at people who already own a Rift and want to upgrade (Or who have the resources and skills to laser cut their own parts from the freely available templates). There are only a few of those Toshiba panels in the world at the moment, though, and the very earliest I can imagine seeing them on the market would be Q2/Q3 2013.

Glad you appreciate the price! :) I am lucky that I don't have to pay salaries, a lease, and all those other expenses that come along with running a "real" company, makes things easier.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:13 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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A fun note to make:

I have been talking to tons of suppliers for this panel, and it looks like it hit end-of-life status quite some time ago. Not being made anymore, I might have to tap the stocks of multiple suppliers if more than 500 or 600 people sign up.

There is a plenty of stock for the version of the panel that has a touchscreen attached, but that is a problem for an HMD. I have ordered a sample unit to see how hard it is to remove the touch panel, hopefully it is not the kind that attaches using adhesive.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:45 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Have you yet hit the backwards situation of the touch-enabled version being cheaper due to surplus stock? ;)

In all seriousness, though, that's a good thing to at least know about before firing up the Kickstarter. You can set limits on supply, if you need to.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:50 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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BillRoeske wrote:
Have you yet hit the backwards situation of the touch-enabled version being cheaper due to surplus stock? ;)

In all seriousness, though, that's a good thing to at least know about before firing up the Kickstarter. You can set limits on supply, if you need to.


Yes, I have! :lol: It looks like the backlight and touch screen ribbon might be integrated, hopefully that can be fixed.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:05 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Using a touch-screen for a HMD is not a bug, it's a feature: that way you can control the VR environment with your eyelashes... :lol:
(just kidding)


Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:17 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I'm a lurker that has drifted in and out of these forums for years. After seeing the reports of Carmack doing the demo at E3, I am super pumped about this project and I will be supporting the Kickstarter for sure. Keep up the good work, Palmer!


Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:43 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Are weight and power consumption the primary concerns with the touchscreen displays, or is it similar to an active digitizer screen on an old-school Tablet PC where it also clouds the image?


Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:38 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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It is mostly weight, every bit matters on an HMD. I won't know how much it clouds the image until after I get my sample unit, but even good touchscreens have the quality degraded at least a little by the touch layer. Another thing for dust to get into, as well.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:47 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Alrighty, here is the link to the pre-Kickstarter page, it should be safe from random people buried here in the thread. :lol:

Link: http://oculusvr.com/?page_id=55
Password: MTBS3D

I plan on taking about 20 pre-Kickstarter orders, so don't delay! You must call now! :lol:


Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:53 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
Alrighty, here is the link to the pre-Kickstarter page, it should be safe from random people buried here in the thread. :lol:

Link: http://oculusvr.com/?page_id=55
Password: MTBS3D

I plan on taking about 20 pre-Kickstarter orders, so don't delay! You must call now! :lol:


Is Canada ok? I'll be shipping to the States as I live right across Detroit.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:59 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
Alrighty, here is the link to the pre-Kickstarter page, it should be safe from random people buried here in the thread. :lol:

What's the email we are supposed to specify, it's not listed anywhere.

edit: For clarification, Paypal doesn't let you buy a gift certificate for yourself.


Last edited by German on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:00 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Quote:
Alrighty, here is the link to the pre-Kickstarter page, it should be safe from random people buried here in the thread.

Congrats on reaching another milestone! :D

It's taking a lot of will power to not jump on it, but really I want to devote my effort to help make the Kickstarter number go up. Those things carry momentum. I'm subscribed here and to the newsletter, so hopefully I'll be ready to pounce when it goes live and don't miss out on a tracker/Doom bundle.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:06 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Alkapwn wrote:
Is Canada ok? I'll be shipping to the States as I live right across Detroit.


If you are shipping to Detroit, sure. Paypal does not release the funds until the certificate is redeemed, so it is all the same. :)


German wrote:
What's the email we are supposed to specify, it's not listed anywhere.


If you go to the page, enter the password, and then scroll to the bottom, you will see a button. Clicking it should bring up the right page. :)


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:08 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
If you go to the page, enter the password, and then scroll to the bottom, you will see a button. Clicking it should bring up the right page. :)


It does, but Paypal doesn't allow you to buy gift certificates for yourself(sender email = recipient email). It's not the same thing as "Gift Payment".


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:09 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Hmm, strange, I thought you could buy gift certificates for yourself.

Does it work if you leave the sender email blank? Alternatively, do you have another email address you could use? I will try to figure this out in the meanwhile.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:11 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:44 pm
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Congrats on setting up your first set of payments, must feel good getting this far!


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:13 pm
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:18 pm
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PalmerTech wrote:
Does it work if you leave the sender email blank? Alternatively, do you have another email address you could use? I will try to figure this out in the meanwhile.


Nope, it complains that no Recipient was specified(it emails the gift certificate to the person). I have another email but I am nervous that Paypal is going to think something is fishy since it outright prevents me from putting in my own email.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:13 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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I found some information that says you can deliver to yourself if you choose to print it out to yourself, could you try that?


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:15 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
I found some information that says you can deliver to yourself if you choose to print it out to yourself, could you try that?


Same issue with printed:

Quote:
You cannot purchase a Gift Certificate for yourself. Please enter an email address that is not associated with your PayPal account.


I am sure it would work if I put in another email, but another concern is that Paypal will make me open a new account to redeem the gift certificate with the alternate email.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:17 pm
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:28 am
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I'm running into the same issue here. Looks like it does require the recipient's email address. I'm assuming the one linked to the Paypal account so it knows which account to transfer the money to.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:19 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Got it.

Give me a few minutes, might have to change the directions. Silly me, thinking Paypal would make this easy. :roll:


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:25 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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I would love to get in on the pre-Kickstarter, but I'm in Aus so I'll wait.

It seems stupid that you can't buy a gift certificate for yourself.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:46 am
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I took the plunge. I just supplied an alternate email address. Seems to have worked successfully. I got an email of the gift certificate (with redemption code) at the alternate email. I'm a bit giddy. Thank you sooo much for your work PalmerTech!


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:30 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)

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Okay, I just updated the page. Follow the new directions, that should work fine. Like I said before, I wanted to avoid telling people to send me gift payments if I could, but it looks to be the only option.

Krisper wrote:
I would love to get in on the pre-Kickstarter, but I'm in Aus so I'll wait.

It seems stupid that you can't buy a gift certificate for yourself.


It really is stupid! I can do that anywhere else, why not here?


cms wrote:
I took the plunge. I just supplied an alternate email address. Seems to have worked successfully. I got an email of the gift certificate (with redemption code) at the alternate email. I'm a bit giddy. Thank you sooo much for your work PalmerTech!


Great! Thanks for the payment, you should contribute $1 or something to the Kickstarter when it launches so you can comment there. :)


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:32 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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PalmerTech wrote:
Great! Thanks for the payment, you should contribute $1 or something to the Kickstarter when it launches so you can comment there. :)


I'll throw a few more than that down. :D


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:40 pm
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:18 pm
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PalmerTech wrote:
It really is stupid! I can do that anywhere else, why not here?

Probably to keep people from adding credit cards they don't own to their account and then giving themselves the money.

Paypal sent. I think we spoke(or someone else told me about it) on IRC quite aways back about the beginnings of this project or a similar one. I am glad to hear it finally coming to fruition and being able to help with the cause.


Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:41 pm
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