You definitely should. The difference in quality between the two is vast.

Your intended consumer is not the general public, but rather the hacker. Universities may also be interested. It is for someone who wants to play with the technology, and is OK with something that has limited real usefulness because of driver issues. I am guessing that your kit would be ideas for someone who wants to make their own modifications, upgrade he display, etc?

I don't think you need to put much effort into getting the general gaming enthusiast interested in the full "kickstart", but rather they would come in at the lower support levels.As others have already suggested, showing the difference between current consumer models, and what you want to offer is the main issue.

Joe Dunfee

I need the minimum support of DVI/HDMI input for the wireless HDMI to work. Hope you can find the supplier that can sell you the HDMI board. As for support, I think it is not necessary on the low entry price as most of us would have some experience in troubleshooting simple issue. The project I can foresee is not for average consumer initially but with VR community feedback and modification could be a solid product for general users.

There are small/cheap HDMI to VGA adapters for about $40 USD, they introduce almost no latency. That is what I am using with my current HMD. I would rather get DVI/HDMI, though, so that is one of my current goals!

I think you guys are spot on about the target market. I would rather not have regular gamers buying this not understanding what it is and the limitations, and then giving it all kinds of bad reviews!

So your looking at a ship date of july or a bit later ?

Plus, I'm sure we'll all be here on the forums trading info and mods as soon as we get our hands on it.

That makes me think of something else Palmer, are you going to set up any kind of "official" website through which you'll deal with customers? Probably it will be mostly us at first, but you probably want a "professional" avenue of communication as well.

I'd really like to buy one of these instead of a ST1080, but the lack of software support is what is holding it back. There really needs to be a ready to run game that can be provided for free with it, or it needs to work with modern games with the correct aspect ratio. If one of the software or hardware methods you guys are investigating pans out, and provides the ability to work with modern stuff, then this is really extremely exciting and I'll definitely donate. Alternatively, I feel it really needs a 'killer app' , since otherwise this great HMD will be useless for many people. Something like 'Dactyl Nightmare 2', a simple run around and shoot VR game, would be great. Something that we can use as a tech demo and play amongst ourselves. Perhaps we could set up a project to do this in Unity or similar, to provide something for people to actually USE their HMD's together with. I really feel we are on the cusp of that revival, that most of us have probably been waiting for for a long time, and this HMD may well be the thing that enables people to demonstrate the potential of virtual worlds, for a reasonable price.

PalmerTech, how is it with displaying 2D imagery? If I could use this with my FPV cameras, it would be awesome, especially since many cameras now can do similar FOV. I probably don't require AV in since I already have

@WiredEarp: We would need a special driver to display any 2D content. My understanding is that each lens is focused at 1/2 the LCD screen so if you just displayed an unbroken 1280x800 2D image on the screen each eye would only see half the image. To display 2D would require the creation of a driver that took a 640x800 2D signal, and concatenated it into a side-by-side view. Then each eye would get a complete copy of the image. It would look terrible if you just tried to take a 1280x800 signal and squash it by half, so you want the driver to report it's resolution as 640x800 to the OS so that desktop graphics were rendered at the correct aspect ratio and you didn't have to scale horizontally. After I get my Palmer unit I will try to put some time into this. An open-source movement might be another option.

This is the second or third time recently that I have seen the idea put forth for an open source game to demo VR technology. I think it's a good idea. Not only could you show how to really immerse the player visually (proper HUD, wide FOV), but you could also demonstrate better motion controls (yaw, pitch, AND roll, independent hand and head, etc).

Mmm, sounds complicated ;-( Unless - could 2d functionality also be achieved by physically removing the lenses and partitioner and replacing them with a wide lens? If so, that could be workable as well.
To have a wide FOV solution for FOV/telepresence would be extremely handy, FOV's on FPV HMD's seem to have been dropping over the last few years and its hard to get much with more than a 40 FOV.

That is the sort of immersion I am talking about. Independent body positioning, gun movement, etc, so you have to 'aim' down the sights, and can lean, stick your gun round corners, etc, just like in the old Virtuality systems. The gun becomes a sort of 'hand' substitute and it aids immersion a lot to have it independently moveable in all 6 dimensions.

This is definitely exciting! I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread!

My guess is that the distortion would be pretty bad. This is definitely an advantage of the micro-display systems because you can switch from 3D to 2D without any loss of resolution or quality. What do you think Palmer?

I think Palmer should keep focused on it being a 3D VR HMD and get it out as fast as possible.
Him wasting time on a 2D solution is not needed in my opinion.
I like the idea of this HMD being fully centered around VR Worlds and gaming with the HMD being 3D with a large FOV.
The VR comunity can make a 2d mod if they want. I have no problem setting up with a 2D monitor and then putting on the RIFT for stepping into that Game/VR world.
This is not just self serving because I want the RIFT in my hot little hands but I do think it is best to get it out the door as quick as you can. Make it the best VR HMD, don't wast any time on anything else.

@3Dvision: I agree. That's why I advocate a software driver solution instead of a hardware solution.

I'm more thinking of people building it, if its designed correctly it should be extremely easy for people to make a 2D mod themselves.

A software solution would be great, but the higher res from using the whole panel could be nice for FPV applications.
However, I stick with my opinion that this will not be of much use to most people, unless the aspect ratio issue can be sorted so people can actually start to use it OOTB.

There's another reason to keep it as focused as possible on the "3D VR Worlds & Gaming" market and that's fan generated support (especially somewhere as hipster saturated as Kickstarter is). One of many consistent failings with most VR enterprises is targeting research and private or military industrial contracts. Keeping it relevant to modern gaming (even if that gaming requires modification to work with the hardware) will create a substantially larger user group for supporting infrastructure.

Yes, I'm being self serving by saying that but its also true



Sounds good. I'll bash some ideas around for you!

No, I agree with you..LOL

I first thought 2d funtion mattered also, but then my mind shifted or RIFT-ED and I now look at the RIFT as a VR & VR Gaming specific device to be used after you have gotten every thing setup and ready to go using your 2D desktop.
Just don't think Palmer should waste any of his time working on 2D.

I bet others like me would have been happy with Palmer just building and selling the Optics assembly and letting us buy and build the other parts on our own. But I won't complain about the compleat kit in a box idea either, I like that very much also.
In case you can't tell, I also like the idea of calling it "RIFT".
Remember the band the Doors.The name of the band was referring to the doors of perception. So you could name it "The Door"..LOL..We will be using it as a reality EXIT...The "EXIT" theres an idea for it's name..LOL

Here's It's tag line... Sick of reality, than open your eyes and don't miss your EXIT..HaHa

Go Palmer!

Theorectically 3D Vision enable 3D desktop mode when stereoscopic 3D is enable which is why it can support windows mode 3D game and video. If my experiment with Lumagen conversion of 3D frame pack to SBS prove to be successful, then it is possible to display windows desktop on the HMD.

Perhaps, but remember, wouldn't that just be the same type of things PalmerTech did with his MRG conversion? I think he said that was quite good despite slight distortion...
People can always open source mod this afterwards to add 2D support, I just thought it might be a selling point if it can be easily done.

Speaking of which, I had the idea that most of our 2D/3D problems can probably be solved by some cheap chinese converters in the future. So I did a hunt and found this:

Specifications 2d to 3d hdmi converter
- 1920 x 1080 (Full-HD) Resolution
- 2D to 3D
- HDMI (480P/576P/720P/1080i/1080P)
- Converts 2D content to 3D "Anaglyphic" Amber/Blue format for any 2D TV with HDMI input viewed with Amber/Blue Glasses
- Converts 3D “Side-by-Side-Half” (SBS-H) content to 3D "Anaglyphic" format for any 2D TV with HDMI input viewed with Amber/Blue Glasses
- Converts 2D content to "Side-By-Side-Half" 3D format for Shutter Glasses type 3D HDTV
- Converts 2D content to "Line-By-Line" 3D format for Polarized Glasses type 3D HDTV
- Converts 2D content to "Frame Sequential" format for 3D DLP Projector
- Switch conversion 2D content to 3D on/off with a key press
- 3D output color adjustment (Half color/Full color/Optimum, programmed by firmware)
- 3D stereo effect adjustment (Convergence: Inward/Middle/Outward, programmed by firmware)
- Select 3D Depth effect adjustment (Index: Weak/Medium/Strong) with a key press
FUNCTION DESCRIPTION
Support 3D “side by side” format convert to 2D HDTV with anaglyph amber/blue glasses
Convert 2D to 3D Stereo image
Support 2D convert to "Side-by-side" 3D format for Shutter/Polarized Glasses type 3D HDTV
Support 2D convert to 3D anaglyph for any TV with HDMI input
2D transfer to 3D function with bottom switch
3D effect control (3D Index: Weak/Strong)
Support Maximum 1920 x 1080 (Full-HD) Resolution
Output to TV in 1080P HDMI
Input:
HDMI (480P/576P/720P/1080i/1080P)
Output:
HDMI (1080P/720P)

Could we use this to convert 2D to 3D content, with zero depth, for display on this HMD? We'd still have aspect ratio issues I guess however...

An interesting possibility. There may also be existing software implementations that do the same thing. Aspect ratio would be annoying but for short term usage (ie. configuring and setting up game play) it might be acceptable.

Just sold my HMZ as it was just not what I had hoped for (do not get me wrong - it is amazing) however it was just not what I wanted in an HMD. I am watching this thread like a hawk for status updates lol!!!

I'm getting ready to buy soon also, so I hope the RIFT comes soon also.

If everything goes well, yes, shipping in July! I am still working on how it should actually mount to your head, designing something that can be adjusted for everyone is tough.



Yes, I am in the process of setting up a site. Gonna be pretty barebones, but enough to do what it needs to do.



I think some demo software would be good. I have gotten it to work in the correct aspect ratio with some modern games using the IZ3D driver, it just requires a bit of custom resolution work for each game you want to use!



It could definitely be done, that is one of the advantages of a modular design. Making a new optics faceplate for 2D use is pretty simple, I might even look into that as an option for the Kickstarter project. Basically, you would be making it into the same thing I did with the PR1.


As for all the discussion about hardware/software methods for displaying 2D, my advice would be to just use a cloned monitor to set everything up. The edges of the lenses are pretty distorted, and while you can correct for this in DirectX stuff using Nthusim or the like, the Windows desktop is not particularly fun to use, especially since the field of view makes it tough to see your keyboard! Some kind of custom game launcher that puts all the elements closer to the center could be very interesting, though.

Thanks again for all the support!

I don't mind paying extra for 1080p panel. I checked out Lumagen yesterday and it had no problem converting 3D signal from FramePack to 1080p 60hz SBS or 720p 60hz SBS.

Just wanted to chip in on behalf of the lurkers that I would buy one of these too!

Don't spend alot of your time on it, because hey, if Sony could not do it, why should you..LOL
What I mean is, I think your real break through is your optics/display assembly. Thats what we most want to buy.
Once the Sony HMZ-T1 was released and in the hands of the people, they modded it for comfort. Most people buy the HMZ-t1 knowing there is a good chance, they might need to mod it for comfort.
You should just put a very plain strap on the RIFT, just good enough to hold it on our noggin for a look see, and from there we will mod it to our liking.

I agree that the mount is not the important thing. However, its important that the face/HMD interface area is comfortable. I dont think bulk is a concern, but the way this area is shaped will be important for comfort, even if its covered in foam. The system to mount it to the head, or to a helmet, etc, could be done by the purchasers, although if a basic strap can be provided to 'get people running' it would be a useful selling point as 3dvision said. The important thing is providing a decent resolution high FOV HMD, cheaply.

I think if you have one pretty popular game working on the RIFT with the correct aspect ratio that will be as good as a demo.
In fact thread Number One, on your website should be a "Getting Games Running" Thread, and post #1 should be a list of the games, you already have working, and a quick "How To" on how you got them working with the correct aspect ratio. Then just let the users of the RIFT list the games they have gotten to work and how they did it.

Like I said, it may be self serving on my part, just because I want a RIFT, but that aside, I do think getting the RIFT in peoples hands as quick as you can is also a smart thing to do. It would get the support of the VR community rolling with mods for the RIFT and also there input on how they got other games and software working with it.

Suggestion: it would be awesome if we can use with the HMD correction lenses fort short sighted people like me.
It would be the only consumer HMD with this type of feature.

No more glasses!

I might try to get Skyrim running, since that is a game that has a huge fanbase. I have gotten some offers from people on the VR-Geeks mailing list to help make some demos for the RIFT that can include full positional and rotational data, that will be really cool, too.



The RIFT lets you adjust the focal length of the lenses by turning a couple screws, so you can adjust yours to be whatever you want. I am a bit short sighted as well, so this is important for me too.

I know im late to the game, but i thought id put in my interest as well.

One thing though, theres a MMO called RIFT by a company called Trion Worlds. (http://www.riftgame.com)
Not sure if itll be different enough not to be a problem or not, but might pay to make sure any graphics or logos dont look like theirs at all.

I really don't like to over-hype the stuff I'm working on (mostly cause I never finish things) but I am in the process of making a VR demo of sorts. I plan to have native 3D support, and should be able to handle strange aspect-ratios if necessary. I don't want to give away too much yet, but lets just say physics will play a big role. I hope to have an early version running in the next few months. I think it will be pretty cool when its done. It will also require the Razer Hydra, and may need a dedicated PhysX card. But maybe I can make a version that will use other devices later on (like Wiimote or Move). It probably won't be finished for the release of the RIFT, but maybe shortly afterwards. Stay tuned...

Lumagen had a mode for Non Linear Stretch which might help for wide FOV gaming. It allow custom stretch where the side is stretch more than the center pixel which might be a good fit for Palmer custom HMD. So far my experiment show that NLS only work for different aspect ratio, eg. 4:3 to 16:9 or 16:9 to 21:9 (widescreen). Will check with the engineer if it is possible for similar aspect ratio. Basically if this mode work, I think the hardware solution will be the easy route to make Rift HMD compatible to all PC games.



Extract from Lumagen manual.
Non-linear Stretch
Non-linear-stretch (NLS) is used to horizontally stretch a 4:3 aspect ratio source to fit a 16:9 aspect-ratio display or
to stretch a 16:9/1.85 source to fit a 2.35 aspect-ratio display. The image is stretched by a constant amount in the
center and by an increasing amount approaching the left and right edges. This eliminates the black sidebars
normally seen when viewing lower aspect material on a higher aspect display. To use non-linear stretch press the
“4:3”, “16:9” or “1.85” button and then press the “NLS” button.
The goal is to stretch the image to fill the screen in a way that looks as natural as possible. The Lumagen NLS
command is very flexible and allows the image to be adjusted to user preferences to achieve this goal. The NLS
adjustments are center width, center stretch, top cropping and bottom cropping. The center section of the image
is stretched by a constant ratio from 100% to 124%. The width of the center section can be set from 15% to 70%
of the display width. By programming the center section width and stretch amount, the amount of non-linear
stretch in the left and right sections can be optimized. In addition, the top and bottom cropping can be set from 0
to 12%. Increasing the amount of cropping reduces the amount of stretch near the left and right edges of the
image. When setting the cropping parameters, it is recommended that the satellite/cable box menu be checked to
assure that critical parameters remain visible.
Some 4:3 sources fill the entire source image (e.g. DVD 16:9 movies), but other sources place a 4:3 image in the
center of a 16:9 image (e.g. HDTV with up-scaled SD source). This latter case is seen as a “pillar-boxed” image
with black bars on the left and right. The “PILLARBOXED” parameter must be enabled for this case. The Lumagen
will then crop the pillbox bars and stretch the active 4:3 image.
For a 16:9 display, when 4:3 NLS is enabled, the image will fill the screen with a 4:3 (1.33) source for any output
aspect ratio up to 1.85. If the output aspect ratio is greater than 1.85, software limits the maximum width to the
equivalent of 1.78 and adds left and right sidebars.
For a 2.35 display, when 16:9 NLS is enabled, the image will fill the screen with a 16:9 or 1.85 source for any
output aspect ratio up to 2.40. If the output aspect ratio is greater than 2.40, software limits the maximum width
to the equivalent of 2.40 and adds left and right sidebars.

@Palmer - Does the HMD lens correct part of the aspect ratio problem like a anamorphic lens? Or can we use a wide angle lens? If yes, this would be the best route to go for as I don't want to throw more pixel away for correct aspect ratio.

DIY option for anamorphic lens.
http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm

Hi PalmerTech! Looking forward to your "Rift", I will probably pass all other HMD's now, I really want big FOV which nobody except you are plan to deliver. So thanks for thinking about FOV as a priority!

Thanks for the detailed explanation of what the Lumagen can do! The HMD optics actually do the opposite of an anamorphic lens, it curves the pixels inward, especially at the far edges. This is bad for using the Lumagen, I imagine, but it is actually good for the HMD. It allows you to have higher apparent resolution in the center, where more pixels are focused, and spreads out the pixels on the far edges. I will post screenshots from Nthusim showing warping later today.



Great to hear! The resolution is not as high as I would like, but it is still many times higher than any of the LEEP displays, or the MRG 2.2, so definitely usable.

YES, Pictures please. All and any pictures you have of or about the RIFT.

Would love to see some teaser pics as well - the curiosity is killing me lol!

You mention that the res is not as high as you would like - what res are you working with?

Also - what type of hookup will this run - HDMI? You mentioned compatibility concerns - I am running 3d vision as well as ddd drivers on my PC. Will the rift run with this setup?

Thanks in advance~

Hey guys, I'm a first time poster, long time lurker...

I'm a freelance game developer (using the Unity3D game engine) and I've been interested in buying a HMD for research for a long time. At first, I thought about purchasing the Sony HMZ-T1, but I realized it would be wiser to start saving money for this HMD when I learned about PalmerTech project... My idea is adding native support for stereoscopic 3D to my personal projects and suggesting my customers to add such support for paid projects, allowing the player to change the fov in the menu depending on the fov of the HMD their are using. As a developer and as an end-user, I would appreciate an easy way to display 2D images, but I suppose I'm far more interested in 3D mode than 2D.

PalmerTech asked in this thread about ideas for the Kickstarter project. I know there are a lot of people in this community who have purchased other HMDs or head tracking hardware previously, but that isn't my case. I'm not a hardware guy, so I would appreciate having an integrated solution for HMD + head tracking, maybe using something like the Sparkfun Razor. I think you could create several pledges for people like me, people who won't mind to pay a little more for getting a "complete product" instead of a DIY kit that must be integrated with other 3rd-party products in order to have a "complete VR solution".

For cheaper pledges, maybe you can sell T-shirts, cups, stickers and things like that. in addition, you could give away a small game or demo showing the benefits of purchasing your HMD instead of purchasing other commercial products. For example, there is a small FPS demo for Unity3D which can be edited for simulating the fov of different HMDs... and it would be possible to play the game in "window-mode" and change the window size at runtime to make it proportional to the simulated fov, so the user would appreciate better how different is your product to the other solutions available in the market. I wouldn't mind to make those changes myself, it should be easy and I'm very interested in this project, so I would like to see it success.

That actually does make quite a lot of sense. Keeping the barriers to entry as low as possible by getting everyone developing on the same display hardware, optics, and motion tracking would be useful.

PalmerTech, the Tracker my friend and I are working on is entirely open source, if you would be interested in integrating it somehow. The board area is currently 1.5"x1.5", but that is entirely because of our use of Bluetooth and inclusion of debug/GPIO headers. The meat of it interfaced over USB can fit on one side of a 1"x1" PCB and uses <$20 of parts (at 100 units).

I'm going to be assembling the second board revision this weekend if the parts arrive in time.

Edit: Slight side note. Within the next few months, ST is releasing a single IC 3 axis gyro/magnetometer/accelerometer which would drastically reduce both the size and price of this sort of thing.