Yes, thanks.
I don't want to spend $150 again for an operating system, when i have the legal XP (in EU we cannot buy upgrade versions). Instead i go back to 4350
But now it seems 5450 also worked for 10 minutes without tearing. I changed some settings in CCC at video section (disable edge enhancement, denoise, dynamic contrast, etc.) Maybe this occured the problem? Because for 2 stream in extended desktop mode, the card is too slow?
I don't know, will test it for longer time, to be sure.

Lol^^
However i still miss some features in displaydrivers of xp that's still missing in win7.... I wouldn't say win7 is overall an enhancement..
But it's true. If an old op-system looses support we're forced to eat next one whether or not it tastes good...

Well newer isn't always better. I mean, in a lot of ways CRT was (and still is) better quality than LCD. But you can't live in the past forever. Its also not especially hard or expensive to add an extra hard-drive to your computer and dual-boot.

The hard drive is of course the cheap one.
Win7 is the expensive. We use this machine only once or twice per month, and only for 1 hour
3D playback, and as i sayed i buyed XP. This is the reason why i don't like to buy a full w7.

"hard-drive to your computer and dual-boot"
Why should i make a dual boot, if i only want one problem free system?

Well if you only use it for an hour each month then I can understand. I just looked at the prices and the full Win7 Ultimate is $269. Yeah, that is a bit pricey actually. Though you can get Home Premium for $99, which is a bit more reasonable.

This is exactly what i did. However it's a mystery why some great functions were left out in a newer op-system.

But isn't Charlton Heston dead ?

Anyways, I agree XP had features that Windows 7 still lacks, I miss the one in particular that allows restarting your network card with a single right-click item.

People, i cannot believe what happened with me.
As i wrote, we have a dual projector polarized setup connected
to an Ati 4350 DDR2 card dvi+hdmi. This setup worked well
with xp sp3 and Stereoscopic player, but unfortunatly this
lowprofile Ati doesn't support 120Hz, what i want to use
for 120Hz projector. So i thinked i upgrade the card to an 5450
model, hope that everything will work as before or even better, and
have the 120Hz. But it's not the case!
With the same setup, the same settings, cables, etc. i often have
tearing effect on the bottom of the video frame! Some lines appear
in one video. I tried everything, but cannot set a so stable system,
that was before! Is it possible that ati 5450 is slower in some
aspect than the 4350?
It's gpu frequency is higher and the ram is also better DDR3.
So i cannot believe, this can happened with me!
I want to wake up!!

(i try win7 with grouped display option, but cannot set 2560x720, and
with extended desktop setting, i only get black when switch to fullscreen.
don't know why, but again, i dont want to go to w7, if xp was also good
with 4350)

Should i get my old card back? To bad i sell it!

I'm not following. You use two projectors right? And you also talk about 120Hz + polarization which cunfuses me. Are you trying to run the monitors spanned with 120Hz shutter?

"I'm not following."
Sorry

I wanted to use this machine also on our dual projector setup and also with my single acer 5360.

Dunno what to do in shuttermode but turning vsync on sometime helps in games for tearing.

Thanks, i will check it, but dont remember, if i have this setting there...

When i google some vsync ati problem i found this:
"All nVidia and ATi users have encountered this problem. DX10 relies on a different refresh rate management system than the prior DX's used. Which is why if anyone has tried any refresh rate programs to lock/force refresh rates (and hoping that they work on DX10) they usually don't work."

Maybe the whole problem exist because the card is a DX11 one?
And 4350 was only DX10. Maybe. Maybe because XP doesnt support dx10 or 11 anyway only 9 as far as i know..

So is it possible that 5450 is worse/slower than 4350?

It won't have anything to do with dx11 because that is not supported on XP.

Also, could you list out the exact specs of the machine you are using? Not sure if that was ever asked.

yes:
Asrock g41 mh-ge MB
Intel E6700 3,2 Ghz 1066FSB
2x512 DDR2-800 dual channel
320GB 2,5" Sata2 HDD
LCpower 380W power
xp sp3, latest catalyst, and dx-webupdate
2 infocus X9 on dvi and hdmi

+ati 4350 (worked fine with E3300 processor)
now 5450 won't with better CPU!
I also tried geforce210, but this also wasn't a good choice because of sync problems.

I think i need to go to my doctor

No, it wasn't the settings in CCC that produce the tearing problems as i thinked.
I also tried creating a custom profile and set gpu and memory frequency to
a constant value, because i read, it will solve the problem. But not at me
I also tested d3doverride vsync ON and OFF option, but without any luck.
The only thing what helped me is simply DO NOT USE DIRECTX exclusive mode
settings in player. Without it i can watch now 10+ minute without problem!
But the author of the player sayed only directx mode can guarantee the syncronization.
It doesn't matter now for me, if also produce tearing effect.
No i play without directx and max 65% cpu usage, and hope that i never get
any sync issue (files are on two separate drive, swap file disabled, etc)..

thanks everyone!

It is a weird issue. Hopefully a future driverrelease from ati will fix it.

Yes, but again a question:
if it's a driver issue, why not present with 4350?

I'm guessing a bit but i assume the graphic chipsets are a bit different and therefore demands different sets of coredrivers. A coredriver for 4350 does not support the 5450 and vice versa. However a driverdownload supports a lot of different chipsets because it has all the coredrivers for the supported chipsets. Only the corresponding coredriver for your chipset will be installed. Someone might be able to give a more clear answer though.

Have you thought maybe it is the codec you are using for those videos you have? I would recommend re-encoding a video with h.264 (or x264) and seeing if that helps. The modern video cards all support hardware decoding of h.264 and it should be lightning fast, even for dual 1080P streams. You can also get the FFDShow VFW Interface and try messing with the settings (specifically the decoder options).

I tried many mpeg2 decoders, "gabest" seems the lowest cpu usage with best deinterlacing.
I also tried ffdshow, powerdvd codec, etc. The problem is not here.
I don't know it i convert my videos to 2 x264 file, the hardware accelerating would work on two streams in Stereoscopic player? Has anybody some good experience?

I have only experience of dual streams since a few years back. I recall i had quite some amount of one-frame-lag while single stereofiles played well. I used stereoscopic player but there are big chances that it's upgraded to minimize such effects.

Every time I tried hardware acceleration for my videos, it failed miserably or produced artefacts.
I've got a powerful quad core CPU that can manage dual 1080p H264 video, i'll just stick with it and suggest everyone to do the same.
Spend 10 minutes installing the codecs properly and save hours trying desperately to troubleshoot problems with hardware.

"Every time I tried hardware acceleration for my videos, it failed miserably or produced
artefacts."
Yes, exactly! Stereoscopic player doesn't like hardware accelerated codec (dvxa and cuda).

Now it seems, our problems is also gone with 3.2Ghz E6700 CPU and
Stereoscopic player "Do not use directx exclusive mode" option.
Today i watched 2 hours footage (2xHDV 1080i with bob deinterlace) and
i get no tearing, no artifacts and cpu is always below 70%.
For 3840x1080 mkv-s cpu is about 40-50%
All this with a passive Ati 5450 on xp.

I'm considering a dual projector setup but worried about the sync issues mentioned in the first post.

1)Is this still an issue?
2)Is it an issue for both AMD cards and Nvidia (I currently have AMD 5870 but will change to what ever works)?
3)Does it mean that only films will work (via eg stereoscopic player) and not games?
4) I play virtually all my games via Steam - will these have the sync issue too?

The sync issues are still there when the projector are left running independently, however it is not systematic, sometimes they run in sync and sometimes they jump in and out of sync. I varies a lot according to the games and the framerate. It seems that when the game runs into the V-sync framerate limit, the extra available time allows the two images to be sent at the same time. Again this is not systematic, sometimes it works well, sometimes it just refuses to work.

For uncompromised gameplay, I'm still waiting for the side-by-side "not squashed" output promised by iZ3D which would allow playing with display grouping with the correct aspect ratio and solve one of the last major issues of the system (the last one being BluRay3D playback without having to RIP and re-encode the movie).
At the moment I can only play 2 games with display grouping : TrackMania and Audiosurf, all the other applications I have just render stretched 32:9.

One more thing : I previously couldn't activate the 24Hz mode when using display grouping (i had a major GPU driver crash), I just tried again with the latest AMD catalyst driver and it now works fine. I enjoyed watching my first movie in native 24Hz mode. Camera pans do indeed look smoother but it's not a big difference ; I think I am used to jittery content from games and am not that bothered to see jitter when watching movies.

wow


http://voxelium.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/icc-color-management-in-media-player-classic-home-cinema/

This sounds total awesome with infinitec filters , no ? GPU color LUT... sorry for OFF theres no dolby3d topic

@BlackShark Thanks for the reply. That is incredibly frustrating that the games don't work properly.

I reread your comment on the first post (as it's not easy to digest at first exactly what is happening with the stretching etc of incompatible games). From what I understand it seems that the you are effectively getting the compressed side by side format for 1080'p' as per the HDMI 1.4a spec? As the IZ3d driver compresses the full 1080X3960 to this. (is that correct?). Does Tridef have the same issue?

You mentioned that it sometimes works when not in eyefinity mode (ie not 1080x3960) but as independent screens. Does it stay in sync for particular games etc.. or is it just completely random as far as you can tell? Have you tested with eg a frame counter to see if it always works if the card is rendering at least 120fps (ie 60 per screen) which should be above the vsync limit?

It's weird how I have heard the sync issue mentioned elsewhere. The old tom's hardware article didn't mention it: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3d- ... 589-7.html
Not sure why they didn't seem to suffer the same issue? Have any other people with dual projector setups confirmed the issue.(ignore that just reread jack bauer's post)
(Is a dual projector setup impossible on an Nvidia card? Do they have the same issue if it's possible?)


I'm trying to work out the best 3d projector setup to go with and had thought about the JvC x3 (RS40) 3d projector, but when testing it, the dimness, being limited to 1080p@24HZ and that I find shutter glasses tiring are pushing me towards the dual projector setup.

Ideally it would be via the infinitec method (so I don't have to have a silver screen that isn't as good for 2d). But there isn't currently a method for doing the colour shifting for games. (without going for the very expensive infitec hardware box). The 3d-vip, 3d-theatre may do this but it looks like it will be limited to 1080p@24Hz. (http://www.3d-vip.com/). So it looks like the best option is dual polarised, however I presume any sync issues will be common to polarised and infitec setups (if it ever worked for games).

And tritosine that's a great find for MPC, that would certainly seem to make it easier to watch movies via the infitec approach. Would love to hear if anyone managed to get it working using this, (jack bauer?) (Edit: Can it apply different profiles to each half of the screen?)

http://www.nexnix.co.uk/3d/3d_projectio ... terial.php

maybe this RP is better than silver, not tried it, and I rather want retroreflective shutter. Maybe once when I have better dual optics method I'll try dual projection. Be sure to ask about shipping practices if you order something (want it rolled up).

Just to keep you updated. I am releasing all my stuff for Infitec/Dolby3D color correction:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20051188#post20051188
Sorry, still no gaming...

Nice, thanks for the update. Did you happen to take pictures of the DDD calibration test with your new solution to compare it with your previous one or a polarized rig ?

Sorry I just dont know what you are refering to. Please link me.

But in any case:

Infitec color calibration is done manually (*). Taking a picture of the screen is of no use (at least with a regular camera).
Sensors are not adapted to take advantage of the comb-like wavelength filters and recorded colors are not the same as what you really see with your own eyes. I did the test.

(*)Doing the calibration manually doesn't mean it is not accurate.
Although you cannot pretend to tell the abolute value of a color with your eyes, most of the calibration step is done in a differential way:
- One image with no filter but dimmed to simulate filter attenuation (Color are absolutely correct)
- The other image with filter. The only thing you have to do manually is make up for the color difference.

Even professionals do the calibration manually:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19504307#post19504307

I am not sure I answered your question...

Jack

I think he meant the DDD alignment picture (although most people use it as a crosstalk test).

OK. I didnt do the DDD test.

My new filters give slightly better results as far as ghosting is concerned. Less than I expected. But my ultimate goal was to get flat filters in order to integrate them right inside the projectors.

These filters are still outside the projectors at the moment so I have slight color shifts in the corners (thus wavelength shifts), and ghosting is likely to show up there.

Although ghosting has never been an issue with infitec, I did some testing. Instead of the DDD test, I used a vernier scale of my own to quantify ghosting with numbers:
http://img337.imageshack.us/i/ghostingtesthalfsbs.jpg
I remember I got less than 2 in the corners and about 1 in the middle of the screen with the old filters coming from dismantled glasses (I use an improved version of the patterns that I can move around to reach the corners).

(It has to be said that color correction has no impact on ghosting)

I will test the new filters and try to make photos.

Jack

Ok, it would be nice to be able to see that DDD ghosting test with your new filters. For now that's the only method which allows anyone to compare ghosting between 3D solutions, and the resulting images have been quite conform to the appreciation of viewers.

OK, here you are:

NO color correction.

Without the glasses:


Through Left and Right lenses:
...
There is slight ghosting in the hi-contrasted center pattern.
Also, as I said, I am getting slight ghosting in the corners.

If I move the image around to center the corner patterns, I have:
...
This time, I am getting ghosting on the "L" (which is now in a corner), less on the "R".

Although this is very acceptable, it will become much better when the filters are inside the projectors.
1. Light beam will always be perpendicular to filter
2. Filter will be sitting between the lamp and the panels

Infitec claims that extinction ratio be around 1000 in theory.

Jack

Mounting infitec inside a standard LCD projector seems like a bad idea, because they aren't really filters, they are dichroic mirrors. All of the light that doesn't pass through it gets reflected right back to the LCD panels, which are very easily damaged by heat.

I'd suggest turning on either low lamp mode or high altitude mode.
EDIT; or come to think of it, low lamp mode would turn the fans down, so that's a no go too.

Please read again at the end:
2. Filter will be sitting between the lamp and the panels (that you cannot do with polars)

In fact between the IR dichroic and the panels. Thats what Infitec do, should you send your projectors to them for the mounting, as they suggest.
And the panels actually get LESS light. (BTW mines are SXRDs, not LCDs)

The lamp might be at risk though, but its only the lamp. Maybe give a slight angle to the filter (like the dichroic filter). A few degrees will prevent focusing too much on the lamp core.

Thanks for the images jackbauer, that looks pretty good...

As you said on AVS it's better than a dual-rig polarisation system and I'd say it's at least equivalent to a Panasonic VT25. Not sure if it's as good as a DLP projector with active glasses (H5360 for example), but it's very close and higher resolution anyway (1080p with 2 x Sony VPL-HW15, right ?).

Might be the ultimate solution for projection of 3D movies if color correction can be done right. Why didn't you take photos with color correction btw, are there any problems when displaying a stereo image ?

Did you investigate real-time color correction with pixel shaders in 3D APIs like OpenGL or Direct3D ? Maybe that can be done in real time for S3D gaming ?

Right


Answer is 7 messages back! Camera sensors dont really comply with notch filtering. I'll try to take pictures trough glasses with/without color correction. See what comes from that.


No I didnt. I am no programmer and this is beyond my skills. Also I am no gamer and OpenGL/Direct3D is an unknown world.
Color correction cannot apply to gaming the way it is done (AVS script). But the answer to that issue seems so close... Using lookup tables is so simple that its a shame iz3d programmers (for example) have not looked at the subject yet.