ST1080 Update: First Shipments arrive in May!

[brantlew]

New Review from AVS forum member who just received his new SMD 1080P yesterday.

It's worth mentioning that this guy's unit was from the first batch. He had a snafu in shipping that caused a large delay.

[cybereality]

Hmm.. that doesn't sound that great. And he has the HMZ to compare so it seems pretty fair.

[ViruzZ]

Hmm.. that doesn't sound that great. And he has the HMZ to compare so it seems pretty fair.

Im not sure its a fair review, his set was from the first batch, we need some people with sets that were made after June 15

[cybereality]

Well another thing to remember is that SMD claims they've sent out over 1,000 units, but the people you hear online are probably going to be the ones with the quality issues (they are usually the loudest). Its possible a good amount of people have gotten working units and are happy with it. We shall see.

[Synexious]

I ordered on March 21, so mine was made after June 15, right? Or has it not yet been produced? I'm glad for the delay, since I'll probably not receive a defective unit. When would you guess I'll receive the HMD? Less or more than a month?

[ViruzZ]

I ordered on March 21, so mine was made after June 15, right? Or has it not yet been produced? I'm glad for the delay, since I'll probably not receive a defective unit. When would you guess I'll receive the HMD? Less or more than a month?

Did you get a shipping notification? If not then youll get a revision 2 model

[brantlew]

Just got my second-batch ST1080 5 minutes ago! I'll be playing with it today, but it will take me a couple of days to get a proper review up. I might post a couple of teasers in the meantime.

tn_ShippedBox.JPG

[space123321]

SWEET!!!!! I am so looking forward to an honest review for someone that will have simular use to all of us on here! Hoping second batch is ideal!!!

[fireslayer26]

It's been a couple hours already! Come on with the goods!!!

[space123321]

I don't think I have ever pressed the refresh button so many times in my life lol!

[brantlew]

Alright, alright... here's just a little bit

I don't sense that there are manufacturing defects with my unit, but the fundamental design issues that other have reported are present.

Light bleed on the sides - yes
Focus problems along the top and especially the top corners - yes
Some internal transient lens reflections - yes
Some type of optical artifact on the bottom corners (reported as looking like screen projector on AVS Forums) - yes
Color aberration during high speed eye shifts - yes

But I was prepared for all of that so it did not really disappoint me much. The blurry corner is the thing I dislike the most. 85% of the screen looks fantastic however. Colors are nice. Text is sharp. I actually find that 1080 is too high of a resolution. I am working right now, so I did some coding in Dev Studio for a bit just to see if it could be used as a desktop. I am sensitive to small text, so I bumped my resolution down to 720 and that was more comfortable. The text was clear at 1080 but I personally don't like it that small.

The 3D effect is muted as others have reported but I only played with it for 5 minutes. I popped in SkyRim for 5 minutes as well and it looks great. This is really what this unit is for - immersive gaming. Unlike my other crap HMD that I have to memorize the menu systems because it is so blurry, I had no problem what-so-ever navigating menu systems. An of course in game - stuff like blurry corners and light bleed are a non-issue.

So my initial impressions are pretty good. I'll be doing a lot more testing tonight - plus the thing that I think will matter the most: head tracking.

[ViruzZ]

Alright, alright... here's just a little bit

I don't sense that there are manufacturing defects with my unit, but the fundamental design issues that other have reported are present on my unit.

Light bleed on the edges - yes
Focus problems along the top and especially the top corners - yes
Some internal transient lens reflections - yes
Some type of optical artifact on the bottom corners (reported as looking like screen projector on AVS Forums) - yes
Color aberration during high speed eye shifts - yes

But I was prepared for all of that so it did not really disappoint me much. The blurry corner is the thing I dislike the most. 85% of the screen looks fantastic however. Colors are nice. Text is sharp. I actually find that 1080 is too high of a resolution. I am working right now, so I did some coding in Dev Studio for a bit just to see if it could be used as a desktop. I am sensitive to small text, so I bumped my resolution down to 720 and that was more comfortable. The text was clear at 1080 but I personally don't like it that small.

The 3D effect is muted as others have reported but I only played with it for 5 minutes. I popped in SkyRim for 5 minutes as well and it looks great. This is really what this unit is for - immersive gaming. Unlike my other crap HMD that I have to memorize the menu systems because it is so blurry, I had no problem what-so-ever navigating menu systems. An of course in game - stuff like blurry corners and light bleed are a non-issue.

So my initial impressions are pretty good. I'll be doing a lot more testing tonight - plus the thing that I think will matter the most: head tracking.

can you please try this and let uis know how you feel?

Some said on other forums that if you use the Mute button that turns off the back light (aslo sound, buts thats Ok since most gamers use 5.1 headsets)
and you use the set in totally dark room, you will get an almost perfect pictures with black colors appear as they should not gray

can you please let us know what you think about this?


P.S. Since you said its your second set, do you feel its better then the previous one? Like less bugs or better picture? would you recommend your friend to get one?

I want one for o2 things and 2things only, 3D blu Ray movies at 1080P and 3D games from consoles on 720P and PC 3D games at side by side 1080P mode
Also just playing games both PC and console at full HD without 3D....

do you feel like its a good device for me?

[brantlew]

I never had a first-batch ST1080 so I can't comment on improvements. I was comparing it to another HMD I own. There is no dust and no delamination that I can tell. Haven't tested the headphones yet.

[ViruzZ]

I never had a first-batch ST1080 so I can't comment on improvements. I was comparing it to another HMD I own. There is no dust and no delamination that I can tell. Haven't tested the headphones yet.

Have you tried to use it with Mute button on?

people say it gives teh best picture, just that you need to be in a dark room

[pierreye]

Can you let us know why 720p text is bigger than 1080p without scaling? My assumption is the text size should be similar. What you can do is still setting your desktop to 1080p but use Windows 7 text display option to Medium (font will scale 125%). This should help you in Visual Studio as the font will be 25% bigger.

[ViruzZ]

Another review of the Version 2 model..

Okay mine, by the numbers..

Light Bleed. No. Haven't seen any. Maybe his light blocker was applied wrong?

Fuzziness at top and sides. yes, but Im not ready yet to say that isn't being cause by my glasses.

Internal reflections. None that I noticed.

Bottom corners. Again all I noticed was blurriness.

Color aberrations, again none that I noticed but i haven't had a chance to play a full game yet.

I found the 3D to be quite strong in the Nvidia test program. Might be a difference in our perceptions.

[suckmysound]

Another review of the Version 2 model..

Okay mine, by the numbers..

Light Bleed. No. Haven't seen any. Maybe his light blocker was applied wrong?

Fuzziness at top and sides. yes, but Im not ready yet to say that isn't being cause by my glasses.

Internal reflections. None that I noticed.

Bottom corners. Again all I noticed was blurriness.

Color aberrations, again none that I noticed but i haven't had a chance to play a full game yet.

I found the 3D to be quite strong in the Nvidia test program. Might be a difference in our perceptions.

been floowing their blog for quite sometime - still seems the perfect unit is yet to be shipped with issues plaguing this shipment post 18th June.

a few questions

1)why the transparency is added to design when it leads to light bleed and a useless feature for VR and immersion ?

2)why the unit does not have 'Tilt adjustment' as found on Vuzix headsets [VR920 etc] ?

3)why is their QC so bad ?

if they persist like this then they may have to close down the HMD business as the faith will be lost in their product soon !

none the less - a project started with a lot of 'hype' but it's turning out to be a big 'whimper'

[brantlew]

Ok, my full review is up.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=15100

[brantlew]

Have you tried to use it with Mute button on?

There are two buttons that darken the screen. The first is on the control box and mutes both the sound and turns off the LEDs. The second button is on the underside of the glasses and just turns off the LEDs - probably to be used with AR. Pressing these buttons almost eliminates the grays, but at the expense of the image. It is like turning daytime into dusk. I don't consider it a usable image at all.

[ViruzZ]

Have you tried to use it with Mute button on?

There are two buttons that darken the screen. The first is on the control box and mutes both the sound and turns off the LEDs. The second button is on the underside of the glasses and just turns off the LEDs - probably to be used with AR. Pressing these buttons almost eliminates the grays, but at the expense of the image. It is like turning daytime into dusk. I don't consider it a usable image at all.

Thanks for letting me know, after reading your review especially the part about horrible 3D, everyone complains about horrible PQ (its the tech, some things wont be fixed)
I think ill pass, maybe ill get one when they make a new model hopefully fixing everything that had wrong with this one

[CyberVillain]

Have you tried to use it with Mute button on?

There are two buttons that darken the screen. The first is on the control box and mutes both the sound and turns off the LEDs. The second button is on the underside of the glasses and just turns off the LEDs - probably to be used with AR. Pressing these buttons almost eliminates the grays, but at the expense of the image. It is like turning daytime into dusk. I don't consider it a usable image at all.

Very similar to dynamic constrast on LCD TVs and projectors, they dim the light to get better blacks but this gives washed out coloes instead. This is why i keep away from low contrast displays like LCD and bought a DLP projector.

Whats funny is that LCOS is regarded as one of the best display technologies for projection, so its a bit strange it wont work for back projection like this

[asdfghj]

i also ordered st1800 and wondering 3d feature.
on smd website there is a list says that 1920x1080p @ 60Hz Side-by-Side (half resolution)
this means seen image will be 60 hz in half res of 1920x1080p. or 30 hz with half res..i understood right??.this 60 hz has same as 3d lcd. so i liked it if true thanks

[ViruzZ]

i also ordered st1800 and wondering 3d feature.
on smd website there is a list says that 1920x1080p @ 60Hz Side-by-Side (half resolution)
this means seen image will be 60 hz in half res of 1920x1080p. or 30 hz with half res..i understood right??.this 60 hz has same as 3d lcd. so i liked it if true thanks

Its 60Hz and partially half resolution: 1920x1080 in 2D will be 1920x540 in side by side

[asdfghj]

thanks for quick reply i have another question
does this st 1800 needs any extra glases in front of it to see 3d effect.(think 3d lcd needs passive glasses).or only wear and see 3d videos

[ViruzZ]

thanks for quick reply i have another question
does this st 1800 needs any extra glases in front of it to see 3d effect.(think 3d lcd needs passive glasses).or only wear and see 3d videos

No, its a wearable system, whats called HMD.
Its 2 tiny screens inside the glasses, you get a feeling like you sit in in a movie theater in front of huge screen that floats....
you get these glasses and decoder box with HDMI, you can plug any HDMI source to it, like PC, bluray, PS3, Xbox anything with HDMI will work.

if you watch movies and play games by yourself, you dont need a TV, this or another HMD is perfect for single person.

Personally I recommend you to check Sony HMZ-T1, its same price like this one and its only 1280x720p resolution
BUT the screens inside are OLED and picture is perfect, OLED is best picture quality.
Also the 3D effect is better.

I was going to buy ST1080 but eventually ordered Sony because the quality is MUCH better

[asdfghj]

thanks i didnt ask that .i know hmd. i used before but i dint try 3d gaming and 3d videos. so i am asking how this device can give 3d effect without any extra unit(eg; red cyan glasses...) if it can .

[zalo]

He did a good job of explaining it so I'll just reiterate: Yes, the 3D works without any extra peripherals. You only need to be wearing the HMD.

[RiftCraver]

(Granted, I'm late to the party – the last reply was back in July –, still, it'd be great if the people who've contributed here so far could give me their perspective on it all. By the way, I'd mostly use the ST1080 for watching Blu-ray Discs, 2D and 3D.)

A few days ago, I had the following back-and-forth with that Game[s] Veda character (whose various "reviews" have been mentioned all throughout this thread) in the comments section for one of his YouTube videos before he blocked me and deleted everything:

me:

I don't get it: Why is EVERYBODY else complaining about grey-for-black and, much more importantly, heavy light-bleeding AND, worst, blurriness in about 20% to 30% of the whole screen area (not just the corners; those users not only dispute your "razor-sharp text" claim, but write text can't be read AT ALL along the top section)? YOU NEVER ADDRESS THOSE POINTS in your "reviews". Also, why on earth would you not use the light blockers for watching BDs and gaming?

THEGAMEVEDA:

everybody is not complaining , only the people who are complaining are complaining. I do not see grey for black or the other issues you mention,I have used 4 ST1080s for 5 months . The ST1080 is not simply a device for watching bluray or gaming it is the first hmd you can actually use, with the ST1080 you can sit on a plane see your background and watch your film ,play your game or do your work looking through to monitors behind the transparent monitor that is the ST1080 all in a 180g device.

me:

So, you're gonna tell me that it feels like sitting in a pitch-black theater, without an irregularly shining greyish border around the image? (i.e., accoding to you, it's not looking like this video: youtube.com/watch?v=WGLWRsZhipc, combined with the kind of bleeding better visible here: myego.cz/img/dell-3008wfp/dell-3008wfp-light-bleeding.jpg) I don't care if in-screen blacks aren't truly black, but a light-grey border around a spottily bleeding screen would be an atrocious sight.

me:
And that everything (= the WHOLE screen) on every* unit was "razor-sharp"?

*:
By the way, why would one need FOUR of those? It's not like you could use more than one at the same time... If they REALLY are so faultless as you claim, I'd gladly buy one from you. How about it?

THEGAMEVEDA:

the only thing that feels like sitting in a pitch black theatre is sitting in a pitch black theatre. I do not see the grey border you talk of .You can not compare LCDs to HMDS they are totally different beasts. Neither the HMZT1 or the ST1080 show spotty bleeding that LCDs often do, I know I have a Dell 30 incher too.What you will have to consider though is your source and how it generates black and fills those pixels.Portability+freedom from my face frying 30 inch LCDS is a major draw for me

THEGAMEVEDA:

I won't be selling mine till the 4k version comes out next year. Four units for four people , 2 used for testing with the lightblocker two used for transparent testing , across the iPad , Xbox 360 , PS3 , i7 laptops , gaming desktops ...in doors ... out doors and to compare build and picture quality.. I had 3 HMZT1s too ..

me:

Thanks for your replies. This whole thing still puzzles me. You well know there are dozens of reviews and forum threads out there that completely contradict what you say (and even people disliking the HMZ-T1 say that it's vastly superior to the ST1080 in every respect, except for a light grid that's perceptible on the former). Even the makers THEMSELVES seem to disagree with you by admitting QC and design issues and having begun to differentiate between individual batches for the same product.

me:

Another area where you seem to stand alone: Others claim there's VIRTUALLY NO pop-out during 3D movie playback (to the degree that they went to check the BD player settings, as they thought they were looking at a 2D image; they seldomly speak about depth, though, which I consider more important for a stereoscopic experience) and certainly [except when it comes to ghosting] no match for dedicated TVs, while you say it's great and pronounced.

me:

By the way: The premise for your assessment of the Oculus Rift is wrong: its developer says they're aiming for 1080p+ for the consumer version. Not sure, though, if a reduction of FOV will be possible for movie playback.

me:

I'd really like to buy an ST1080, especially for the resolution, but what good would that be if up to a third of the picture was blurred? Add to that asserted spotty bleeding and a greyish hazy border, and you really got something very bad. So are you able to say to me with a straight face, "Go ahead, order, as while the in-screen blacks and contrast aren't great, there's no blur in any part of the image, there's no light bleeding, there's no milky border around the image, and the 3D is decent"?

[brantlew]

You referenced my review a few times. I'll just say that my opinion hasn't changed much of the device since that review. The controller box has become a really annoying piece of equipment that I have to deal with (loose connectors, too big, plugs on different sides) but other than that, it works wonderfully for my mobile VR setup and the light bleed doesn't ruin the experience for me. But I have a hard time suggesting it for non-portable movie use.

[Comgenie]

Got a PM from RiftCraver referring me to here. So time for my opinion after having the st1080 a few months now .

* The light bleeding is a fact. At least at the very first units shipped (Mine was in the first batch). It is disturbing with dark scenes but for regular movies you won't really notice it.
* I've got lucky with the blurryness. Maybe its different for each person or each unit. The text is clearly visible for me all around the screen. Only the corners are a bit blurry.
* Personally I never remove the lightblockers. I did just to try it out but after that, never removed them again. So I don't know how good it will work for movies and such.
* There is a black/gray border around the image. But the border is not lighter than any black content displayed on the screen. I don't even notice it anymore when watching movies.
* The 3d effect is there, not really pop-out but still 3d content is good. It just depends on the source, some movies are not that great and most players require some adjusting of the 3d strength. But it is there and it is good. Playing around with those settings will get you far (and dizzy, sometimes if you increased the 3d strength too much ). Ofcourse this is just an opinion from me. I personally prefer the natural 3d look and not the overdone 3d effects with stuff flying to your face. It's anoying .
* The FOV is nice, but not as much as a big cinema. For me it does not really feel like you're inside a game. More like looking at a big screen where you play your game on.
* I've used the ST1080 mostly for 3d movies and mostly at home. Tried using it while traveling but the cable-mess was annoying. (My mobile + htc hdmi adapter + st1080 controller unit + battery unit + st1080 + 4 cables in between)
* NVidia recently added support for the ST1080. Almost all pc games can be played in 3d (if you have the right nvidia hardware + 3dtv play). I really started using the st1080 more after that .


My honest opinion about your purchase:
It is a fun device. Order it when you can easily afford it. There are shortcommings and it somehow feels like a beta product. Maybe you'll get disappointed if you expect too much out of it. Although it is one of the better 3d devices out there, it is clearly not the magic product everyone is waiting for. If you can live by that it's nice to have. Otherwise, spend your money on something else you really want .

[brantlew]

One last thing. Even though I have blurred corners it really is a non-issue for gaming and movies. It's only when you try desktop usage at 1080 that the focus is a factor.

[RiftCraver]

Hey, thanks, guys. I hope you didn't feel pestered that I PMed you (and a few others who participated here). I'm very thankful for your not only technical but also usage-centric and, above all, honest and therefore helpful assessments (I seriously don't know what to make of that Game[s] Veda guy – overenthusiastic? Easily satisfied? Uninformed? Propagandist plant? Lucky recipient of the perfect unit?...).

Also, it's good to hear that there really seem to be units out there that don't suffer from heavy blurring, and that even for those that do, it isn't much of an issue when watching movies.

One more thing: you can't really calibrate that thing, can you? If not, do you think colors and contrast are somewhat close to conforming to the standards for Blu-ray Discs? In practical terms, do flesh tones look about right (no pink or orange skin?), and, while there's no real black, is there clear delineation / differentiation of objects within dark scenes, or do things get swallowed up in an indistinguishable mash of dark grey so that you can't really make out what's happening on-screen?

[WiredEarp]

@ RiftCraver:

I think if you want to use a ST1080 to play Bluray movies, you might be better off with a HMZ-T1/2, simply because they have awesome OLED screens. I was very impressed by the picture quality of them.
I'd assume that the ST1080 would be more washed out and have greys rather than blacks, simply due to the display tech not being as good as OLED. Of course, then you are limited to 720P resolution

[brantlew]

I agree with WiredEarp. If this is strictly for movie watching, then get the Sony because the extra resolution on the ST1080 is not going to make that much difference. I switch to 720 about half the time on my ST1080 anyway just because it makes games go faster and text easier to read.